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Ford Crown Victoria and Mercury Grand Marquis

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Comments

  • mojave2kmojave2k Member Posts: 5
    I think it is only available on the 300 hp all aluminum 4 valve Mercury Marauder..Last chance for that, I think 2004 is the last year for it..
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Nope. Floor shifter was available the entire run for 2004 Crown Vic LX Sport and remains so in 2005:

    http://www.downsford.com/order_guides/2005%20Crown%20Victoria%20O- rder%20Guide.pdf

    In fact, one out of five Crown Vics sold at retail during MY2005 are projected to have the floor shifter.
  • jsylvesterjsylvester Member Posts: 572
    My 2000 Intrepid R/T needs a new a/c evaporator, on a car that is only 4 years old and only 55,000 miles. My mechanic told me it is about 9 hours labor, plus around $280 for the part - figure around $1,000 with tax, supplies, etc. He knows this because he just did the exact same repair on a 99 300M two weeks ago. He told me to contact Chrysler for relief, as one of his mechanics worked at the Dodge dealership for years, and they fixed the evaporators all the time on the full size Chryslers.

    The a/c in my 94 Grand Marquis works flawlessly, and always had. My mechanic, who besides having worked on civilian Panther platforms, does the work on the Crown Vic fleet of a small local police dept, and I've asked him if he's seen any issues with the "Panther" platform a/c systems. He told me that other than fixing minor leaks on some of them, he's cannot recall ever doing a major repair on any of them.

    I knew back in 2000 I should have bought another Grand Marquis, but I was seduced by the style of the Dodge. Luckily I kept my old one, as it is now my summer car, as well as my road trip car.

    I only hope they keep building the Panther, as I'll always own one for at least a back-up car.
  • hotrodlincoln1hotrodlincoln1 Member Posts: 62
    I've driven a few Mercedes and several Panthers. I think the Panther platform has the Mercedes beat as far as ride comfort. Other than that, you are spot on.
  • sidvid2sidvid2 Member Posts: 2
    I am getting some creaks and squeaks from the dash in a few areas. Which sound more like plastic on plastic. Has anyone had issues with this? The car is still under warranty and I could have the dealer fix it but I am concerned I may have more after the dash is pulled and put back in; any suggestions? Thought or personal experience on this issue? Since it only happens on rough roads I am 50/50 on having the dealer pull the dash apart.

    One other question on squeaks, I get some from the frame I can hear at low speeds. Any ideas or experience on what may be the cause? Dealer thought it may be the sway bar???

    Would like to get these issues handled before the warranty expires.

    Other then that I must say I love this car! Being my first I can say it will not be my last.....

    Thanks in advance for your help and advise

    2003 CV LX with 25k miles
  • harmar2harmar2 Member Posts: 36
    GM and CV all seem to develop these, and need periodic attention. Lube these: hood latch, hood adjustment bumpers at each front corner, hood bumpers along each side on fenders, moulding at rear of hood atop firewall, cover over vacant space between rad and front sheet metal, spaces between top of bumper and front sheet metal, torsion bar rubbers, etc. Finding these is at times really tough, because the noises get transmitted through other materials, too. (I use WD-40 and silicone sprays.)

    As for the plastic noises under the dash, that could be heater/AC ducts expanding/contracting/twisting. Check to see if glove box is rubbing on something, too.

    Finally, my driver's inside door panel was rubbing slightly against the end of the dash. I took a cloth with a little WD-40 on it, wiped that area, dried it off, and the squeak was gone.

    Good luck!
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    over a year, asking questions about God-knows-how-many SUVs, I finally realized that I needed a good road car, and I bought, on July 31, 2004, a 2004 Crown Vic LX Sport...had to have the floor shifter and bucket seats...while my 2000 Intrepid will cool freezing air within 1-2 minutes, the Crown Vic needs about 3-4 miles before it really cools...took it to the dealer, they said it was low on R134a (Manufacture date was 08/03, sat on dealer lot about a full year) and did some repairs...cools better and it IS acceptable, but not as well as many other Fords I am familiar with...I believe it can do better and faster, but dealer says within specs...as much as I really like the car, they could have put a few more options on it...the Grand Marq has an option of Homelink, which would eliminate the need to place my garage remote on the sunvisor...it could also have, like the Intrepid, a fuel info system (you know, instant mpg, average mpg, distance to empty, etc.), and an in-dash 6-CD player instead of the trunk, as the dash unit certainly has the space for it...but, overall, I like the vehicle, glad I bought it, getting 20 mpg now, waiting to go on long road trip to really break in engine (now has 3000 miles, changed oil at 2500, used Motorcraft Synthetic 5W-20 as per owners manual, will continue to change every 5000 with synthetic)...dark grey exterior with charcoal grey leather interior, looks like an unmarked police car...will keep you posted, feel free to ask questions if you like...Bob
  • jsylvesterjsylvester Member Posts: 572
    You have to get the digital dash to get the info center on the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis.

    As far as the a/c goes, see my post above, and just do a little surfing on the internet to see the mechanical quality of the Chrysler A/C on the LH cars has some higher than normal repair issues. An evaporator is 8-9 hours labor plus the parts to repair, as the dash has to be taken apart.

    I'm hopeful the 2006 refresh/redesign will address many of your issues. The best rumor I've heard is the Crown Vic is going to a 6 speed auto in 2006, along with a redesigned interior and exterior. Thank the Chrysler 300 for that, or Ford may have continued to build this car without any changes until the stamping machines turned to dust.
  • ragdollgirlragdollgirl Member Posts: 66
    I have a '94 GM with almost 191k miles. Love it! Still has original suspension - rides great. It has a few electronic problems, such as non-working air bags and a blinking "check engine" light, which will be looked at shortly. Wish I knew how much it would cost to fix the short in the air bag wires -- I've been told it could be substantial, depending on how long it takes to trace down the short. Otherwise, except for the blue smoke it blows, it's a wonderful car and even though I'm starting to get new car fever, I hesitate to just give this car away, which is what I'd be doing. What are the planned updates for 2006? Major restyle or what? If the updates are exciting, I may wait for them (if the car cooperates).
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    But they could have made the info center an option w/o the digital dash; I hope the 2006 will have a 300 HP engine like the Marauder, or at least 275 HP w/325 ft lbs...a race car for older people and young people "in the know"...a tachometer would be nice, even tho it is an auto trans, side marker lights like the Grand Marq would be helpful (my 83 GM had them, and it illuminates the side of the road like a baseball field at a night game when your signal light is flashing)...keep the floor shifter and bucket seats, of course...moonroof option might be nice...DEFINITELY an audiophile 6-CD in dash unit with 250/300 watts, like some of Ford's other vehicles (like Mountaineer)...I also appreciate the power reclining seats with adj inflatable lumbar support in driver and passenger, was almost the sole reason to buy the car...most Fords, I believe, have manual reclining seats, few have power recliners...

    Also, years prior to 2004 (don't know which ones. specifically), the Crown Vic taillights had amber signal lights on the bottom of the red lens... they made it all red in 2004...I have always believed that amber flashing signal/emergency lights are much more visible at night than all red...why did Ford make that change, when they already had the design, engineering and wiring for the amber/red lights???...it just seems to me that the vehicle was safer with amber, and they retrograde it to be all red...why???
  • jsylvesterjsylvester Member Posts: 572
    Moonroof is a factory option, I believe it was added to the option list part-way through the 2004 model year.

    On the CD player, not sure why they still go with a trunk-mounted one. Similar story on the tail light lenses. The only thing I can come up with is since the car has a huge fleet purchase percentage, maybe the decision has something to do with that.

    Let's hope the interior has a major reworking for 2004. It is currently not bad, but some of the features are out of date.
  • samnoesamnoe Member Posts: 731
    is really much better than the red one. i agree. I have no idea why Ford started to change everything to red, including the Freestar.

    But so are other brands doing. Example, the new GM minivans will have red lamps, and Toyota minivan got red lamps as well.

    Seems that ford tries to match all rear signal lamps, to match the Explorer/Expeditions looks.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Sometimes I think it is only change for change's sake, as in make them buy the new one cause it is different than the old one. I can't possibly imagine that anyone would think that would work very well on CV/GM owners. Most are far too practical (and sensible) for that.
  • sidvid2sidvid2 Member Posts: 2
    Thanks harmar2,

    That was a lot of useful information! I have an appointment with Ford tomorrow to take it in along with my list. Hopefully they will be able to correct these things.

    I will be sure to take in your note and suggestions with me as an FYI of some things to look for.

    It is nice to have this source of experience the forum provides in dubugging issues that many owners have been through.

    Thanks Again
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    On the previous design Explorer, the signal lights were also amber, but the taillights were, naturally, red...they changed to all red on the 2002 redesign of the Explorer...it wasn't so many years ago (1960s, 1970s) that ALL of the imports had amber signal lights, British, Swedish, Italian, German, etc...that's how you could tell an import on the freeway a full mile ahead of you, was that you could see the amber signal lights over a mile away, all American cars had ONLY red, until sometime in the late 80s/early 90s, Buick/Olds actually put amber signal lights on a few of their larger, luxury models...considering the safety factor, I cannot see why it would be something that is changed from year to year...plus, it gives you extra bulbs in the back, so if your taillight bulb breaks, you still have amber signal lights, but if it is all red, a bad bulb may cause you to lose parking lights (lower filament) and brake and signal lights and 4-way flashers (upper filament)...another reason for amber, is that it is a separate bulb and circuit for signal lights and 4-way flashers...so, why do they change it???
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    My guess? Cost containment and lack of customer demand for an otherwise costly feature...
  • jsylvesterjsylvester Member Posts: 572
    Anybody seen any new 2005's? All the dealers are still selling off the 04's, but from what I understand, the beginning of the model year is mostly fleet purchases on the production schedule.

    I'm holding out to see what the 06 looks like, but to be honest, my 94 runs so well I cannot see me getting rid of it anytime soon.
  • gene42gene42 Member Posts: 11
    After hearing an axle noise on my '03 GM with 16000 miles on it, I brought it to the dealer for warranty repair. The dealer replaced both rear axle drive shafts, bearings, seals etc. and refilled differential assembly. There was no charge to me and dealer said that there was a recall on the rear axle problem due to faulty materials used at the factory. He said that he has repaired many GM vehicles under the "recall".

    I received no notice of such a recall being in effect and wonder why. Was the rear axle problem not consisdered dangerous? Is there such a thing as a "silent recall"?
  • pantheraparduspantherapardus Member Posts: 4
    You must be one of the lucky ones in the build dates that follow in this excerpt....2003 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptors and fleet vehicles with body code P70, P71 and p72 built from 10 October 2001 through 04 December 2002 may have defective rear axle shafts. In addition, 2003 Lincoln Town Cars with body codes M84 and M81 built from 14 November 2001 through 03 December 2002 may also have defective axles. Ford said "Due to significant differences in vehicle design and customer usage, the affected vehicles typically input higher loads into the vehicle chassis during fleet usage, overloading the wheel bearings and axles. This may lead to early bearing failure and ultimately, axle shaft fracture. The axle repair kit includes new axle shafts, bearings and seals. I first became aware of this in July 2004, so the recall was from around then. Hope this helps.

    wbright
  • pantheraparduspantherapardus Member Posts: 4
    Anyone have experience with what sounds like a loud bearing knock on start up? I have a 2003 GM built 2/26/03 that makes more noise than any other GM I have ever heard on start up during the fraction of a second it takes oil pressure to build. Whenever the car sits for over several hours, this usually occurs. Turning the engine over a few revolutions and stopping and then repeating this and allowing it to start normally results in this issue disappearing. Anyone know of a TSB on this issue by chance? Its done it since new and it has 10k on it now. Otherwise its fine. Thanks in advance,

    wb
  • gene42gene42 Member Posts: 11
    Thanks for your reply. My main question is why did I not receive notification of the recall. It was only when I brought my car to the dealer on my own did I learn of the recall. I assume that the potential of a broken axle is dangerous enough for Mercury to advise its customers. I have since come across the expression "silent recall" on the Blue Oval website and wonder what it means.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    just a "variation" in my 2004 Crown Vic LX Sport...when I shift directly from Park into Reverse, the tranny immediately engages and I can move backwards...when I am in Drive, and then shift to Reverse, I just sit there for almost 5 to 7 seconds, and then I can hear and feel the tranny engage into Reverse, but that seems like a long time to me...if I shift from Drive to Reverse and touch the gas pedal, it will shift into Reverse quicker, but also seems to "slam" into Reverse, rather than a gentle shift...do I have a problem, or do Crown Vic trannies just shift from Drive to Reverse quite slowly???...
  • iusecadiusecad Member Posts: 287
    I haven't driven any as new as yours though, but I would think something's up. Did you check the fluid level?
  • hotrodlincoln1hotrodlincoln1 Member Posts: 62
    A full-on recall (with customer notification and widespread publication) happens when a defect is dicovered that presents a serious safety problem. Such recalls are often mandated by NHTSA, or are issued by the OEM when they think it is serious enough that NHTSA would require it eventually anyway.

    When a company discovers a problem that is not a serious safety problem, they can issue a "silent recall." This is spread to the dealers via Technical Service Bulletin (TSB), but is not otherwise publicized. Ford issues a lot of these, but I have heard of GM and DCX issueing them also.

    In the case of the axle problem, I think the reasoning is that the axle will pit badly enough to damage the bearings and cause enough noise to alert the driver long before there is a big risk of the axle breaking. I don't know how true this is, but I think that's the logic.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    All fluid levels are normal, but thanks for asking...have not been to dealer yet...

    Another thought...I realize EPA mileage stickers may not be accurate, but with 6000 miles, I am getting about 20 mpg on the highway...the sticker was 17/25, and I personally know of two Town Cars, much bigger, that get 27-28 mpg on the highway...does my engine have more break-in time, or am I hampered by the slightly different rear end ratio of the LX Sport???...
  • hammer19hammer19 Member Posts: 31
    It's been a while since I wrote into this forum. My '93 GM now has 135,000 miles (216000km) on it and, aside from the normal wear and tear, still runs real good. However, I've developed two issues with it that I've debated fixing over the last couple of months and would like the opinions/experiences of the other forum folks to offer some suggestions. First, my Ant-Lock Brakes light has been on for a while indicating that they do not work anymore. The manual says you can still drive, and I do, with no issues but you should get it fixed. A friend tried to get his fixed on his '93
    Lexus and his dealer wanted over $1000CDN! to repair it. I can't afford that kind of cash! Any opinions or previous experiences out there as to if it's necessary or how much it costs to fix? Also, the compressor for my Air Suspension seems to run all the time, even while driving down the street, which tells me that maybe the auto-level air suspension needs to be fixed and\or replaced. Does anyone know what that may cost and if it's worth it? I like this car and need to keep it for 3 more years and winter will be hear soon up in Canada, so I need to make some decisions. Thanks for your help, in advance.
  • jsylvesterjsylvester Member Posts: 572
    On the ABS, it sounds like you are saying it no longer works. Have you tried it? It could be as simple as a wheel sensor, which is cheap. I agree, if it is the entire system, I would not fix it. However, if there is no rust 135k miles is not a big deal on a 90's Grand Marquis - they will run a long time.

    On the air suspension, when you park the car, does one corner or the other of the rear of the car sag over time? That would indicate one of the rear air bags is leaking. It could also be the level position sensor is bad, or the a switch to turn it the compressor on and off is not working.

    Check out this website:

    http://www.arnottindustries.com
  • heart2heart2 Member Posts: 38
    On occasion my wipers do not return to the fully down position but land a few inches above it when I turn the wipers off. Doesn't matter if I use them in intermittent mode or constant mode. Something wrong with the joystick control? Something getting occ. stuck in the control? It is annoying when it happens and then it just corrects itself days later.
  • krk83krk83 Member Posts: 2
    The transmission in my Grand Marquis failed the other day, so now I'm looking around in local junk yards for a 1993 automatic transmission with manual overdrive. None of them had any, but I remembered seeing a post, that Grand Marquis and Crown Victoria's are the exact same car. So my assumption would be that a 1993 Crown Victoria would have the exact same transmission (automatic with manual overdrive). I figured I would ask in case any of you were certain, because I surely don't want to spend $600 for a 93 Crown Victoria transmission if it isn't going to fit anyway. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
  • jsylvesterjsylvester Member Posts: 572
    They are the exact same on both models. One thing to keep in mind is there were two different transmissions used in the 92 model year - those assembled after 2/17/92 are the AODE transmission. By manual overdrive, you mean the button on the end of the shifter? That means it is a AODE transmission, which is an electronically controlled model - prior to that, they were hydraulic, and they are not compatable. They were modified again for 1995.

    Any 93-94 Grand Marquis/Crown Vic tranny should be a plug and play swap. A 95-97 will work, but will require some modifications. A 98 or later will also work, but will require some rewiring as well.
  • krk83krk83 Member Posts: 2
    The transmission in my Grand Marquis failed the other day, so now I'm looking around in local junk yards for a 1993 automatic transmission with manual overdrive. None of them had any, but I remembered seeing a post, that Grand Marquis and Crown Victoria's are the exact same car. So my assumption would be that a 1993 Crown Victoria would have the exact same transmission (automatic with manual overdrive). I figured I would ask in case any of you were certain, because I surely don't want to spend $600 for a 93 Crown Victoria transmission if it isn't going to fit anyway. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
  • ron35ron35 Member Posts: 134
    I have had the same problem, it just recently happened for the first time on my 2001 GM. Additionally, I had a couple seconds where the wipers would not turn on at all but finally did.

    Ron
  • gene42gene42 Member Posts: 11
    I have examined the 2005 GM and it is virtually identical to the 03 and 04 except that the radio antenna is fixed on the outside rear fender. I regard this as a step backward especially when going through a Car Wash. It puzzles me why they placed the antenna in such an inconvenient place.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    2004 Crown Vic, since it does things that I think are odd, but maybe the factory designed it that way for old people...I normally set my ventilation system in the fall (now) on "vent" to allow cool fresh air in from outside...I almost always set it on the lowest fan speed...whether I turn the system off, or turn the car off, when I turn on the system (and I do NOT mean to "auto"), the fan speed seems to default to "medium-high speed" and I have to turn it down multiple clicks on the fan speed button, either on the dash or on the steering wheel...why won't the fan speed stay where I leave it instead of defaulting to what Ford wants???...same thing with radio volume, I set it a little louder so I can hear it with the windows open, when I turn it off and turn back on, it defaults to very low volume and I have to keep turning it up...why can't they just leave it alone, the way I want it???...it can sometimes be really annoying...
  • jsylvesterjsylvester Member Posts: 572
    Apparently they decided it was either cheaper to have a separate antenna, and/or it would improve radio reception.

    My 00 Intrepid has the antenna on the rear fender, but I've never taken it through a car wash.

    On my 94 Grand Marquis, it has a power antenna on the front passenger fender. It has a rocker switch on the dash to move it up or down. Reception is great.
  • harmar2harmar2 Member Posts: 36
    My '00 GM does the same. I can manually regulate the fan speed, but when the AC/heater is shut off and restarted, it picks its own "right" speed, apparently to bring the interior to the temp I have set manually as efficiently as possible. This appears to be a factory set and cannot be changed. I've noticed, too, that it will heat or cool the incoming air, even if I push the button to "vent," to match the temp I have set. Again appears to be factory set that way. (My car has the automatic option, not manual controls. Pushbuttons for vent, defrost, etc.)

    Sorry, can't help you with the radio volume. Mine stays where it is put.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    The HVAC system is designed to bring the interior of the car to the temperature you have set it for as quickly as possible, regardless of the method you have prescribed, VENT or AUTO, so if you have it set on 72 for example, and you push VENT, and the interior of the car is 85 from sitting in the sun, it's going to fire up the fan to cool down the interior with that cool outside air until it reaches the desired 72 degrees. Then it will begin to throttle back the fan automatically, unless you override the fan control, which apparently, you do. It's what Automatic Climate Control is all about. But you can always override it.
  • samnoesamnoe Member Posts: 731
    That's one of the reasons I hate auto temperature control. Another reason is it's much more difficult to use than usual manual controls. Especially in the new design which Ford introduced lately (in the 500, Freestyle, Freestar/Monterey, etc.) it's even more complicated.

    And about the radio volume, I have the same "feature" in my Windstar. The manual states that whenever you start the engine, the volume will be reset to a comfortable volume. in case you put your volume way too up, it shouldn't scare you or other people, and especially if you get a remote starter and your radio has been left in a very high volume position, it will not be good...

    But I do agree that even the 'reset' feature should be at a higher volume. The current setting is too low for me. And maybe Ford should offer this feature "optional", so you can turn it on or off to your liking. (sweet dreams).
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Not all new ideas are good ones - complain in places like this one, e-mail the company. Usually you don't hear back, but they are listening....I assure you, and they do read these boards. The engineers are told to read these boards and monitor these discussions very regularly.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    you all have given me...at least I am not alone in the woods...any thoughts on how long it takes for the engine to break in where I can get the sticker 17 city/25 hwy MPG???...I have 7200 miles on it now, since August 1, and the hwy mpg does not surpass 20-21 mpg...thoughts???
  • ehaaseehaase Member Posts: 328
    My 2004 Crown Victoria has consistently given 20 mpg in town and 26 mpg on the highway from the day I got it.
  • hauphaup Member Posts: 1
    I have a 1999 Crown Vic with 103000 miles, 65% of which are highway; perfect condition, new Michelen tires, silver, purrs; high 20's on the hwy since new. I am buying a new Highlander. My dilemma: is there anyone out there who would not be scared of the mileage, or should I just forget it and trade it in?
  • jsylvesterjsylvester Member Posts: 572
    I would not be afraid of that kind of mileage. That being said, depreciation should be substantial either way. I don't think you would have that difficult of a time selling it privately. Your trade-in woudl not be that great.
  • bdeyes333bdeyes333 Member Posts: 12
    OK Guys, here's my dilemma. Wife Wants to get a Camry or Accord for our next car. we've got a 99 Chev Malibu (AKA Boat Anchor) right now. My preference is a good old RWD Full frame Car.Since the Choices these days are limited I suggested the CV/GM. I'm seeking advice as to the reliability of theses two vehicles. Have never owned anything except General Motors products (a few RWD) and have had so-so luck with most of them.Think it's time for a change but not sold on the hype about Japanese cars being better etc.Is Ford a good choice ?Not concerned with depreciation or resale value as We will be keeping this car for the long term.
    Most likely looking at a 1 or 2 year old model with low mileage. I'm From Toronto, Ontario Canada and we have alot of these cars around here,mostly older owners. I'm 40 but can see the value of having a big car to feel safe while
    driving.Any Comments or caveats would be greatly
    appreciated.

                     Many Thanks, BD Eyes
  • iusecadiusecad Member Posts: 287
    in the 2 years & 17k miles I've owned it, even though it was an "abused" Sheriff's car. (Actually I feel the deputy that drove it treated it like he owned it.)

    As to whether you should buy one, the only concern I might have is if you want to go back to RWD in the snow. That's the only thing I hate about having a Vic. But in the past I had a 4x4 to drive, and now this winter I have a Focus and a Taurus, so the Vic can stay in the garage when the snow flies...
  • harmar2harmar2 Member Posts: 36
    My last Toyota & Honda were '77 models. Both were extremely reliable, and I never had to argue, plead or fight with either if something went wrong during warranty. Consumer Reports data seem to suggest their reliability is still high.

    Your wife should take a test drive in cars under consideration. (But a short test drive may not fully bring out the factors cited below.) A buddy and I alternate driving to visit places, with drive times ranging from 2 -10 hours. He has a '01 Accord. He absolutely loves my GM for these trips, because it is comfortable and quiet. His Accord has a stiff ride. It is noisy; you have to raise your voice when conversing at 70 mph. And its seats are lower, meaning your legs are practically straight when sitting rather than having more knee bend in my GM. (My lower back sometimes hurts after a long ride in his Accord.) When we get to our destination, I am happy, because his car is just plain uncomfortable for me. We have no such problems in my GM, and he fully admits that.

    So - your wife may well find her desire for an Accord or Camry is trumped by creature comfort factors present in the CV/GM.

    Good luck with the decisions.
  • bdeyes333bdeyes333 Member Posts: 12
    Thank you two for your input.As for the snow issue, as long as I've put 4 Michelin Snow tires on my RWD vehicles we have had no trouble getting around even in the worst storms.As for test drives I agree that a short dealership test drive can hardly tell you how good any vehicle will perform.I suggested renting the Camry one weekend and then a CV/GM the next.A reasonable way to get a good feel for these cars.My wife is a little spooked by the sheer size difference with the CV/GM but I assured her in a few days
    she would get used to it.Maybe I'll Just Buy a Loaded Grand Marquis and be done with it! If she Doesn't feel comfortable driving, then that means I'll Get to drive it more!!

                 Thanks Guys,Merry Christmas To All

                       BD EYES
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    You might also want to look at and consider the Ford Five Hundred, which in addition to being FWD/AWD, has a HUGE trunk (even bigger than the Vic) and is very comfortable. I love the CV/GM, but due to the size of the parking spaces at my condo complex, the Five Hundred was a far wiser choice. Gas mileage is better, too.

    The safety systems and underlying chassis are all heavily influenced by Ford partner/susidiary Volvo. Under Nasser, this car was almost certainly going to replace the CV/GM. Now, thankfully, that isn't happening. But I did think well enough of the Five Hundred/Montego that I bought one!
  • harmar2harmar2 Member Posts: 36
    Sorry, I should have included this in my previous post. I live in Michigan's lower peninsula. With OEM Michelins on my '00 GM, I've been stuck just once in snow. Last winter, winds had whipped snow into 4 - 6 foot drifts on roads near my place. 60 feet from my house, I wanted to obey traffic laws, so slowed for a stop sign. Plows had cut the drifts there to 12 - 14 inches, but the whole underside of the car got pancaked onto them. I got a shovel from my garage, made paths in front of all four wheels, two young men stopped and pushed and I got out easily. Had I not slowed, I would have plowed through those drifts just as I had at six or eight others I'd already gotten through. With some foresight and planning, I've always gotten through.

    I did, though, replace the Michelins with Bridgestones a few months ago, as payback for Chirac's anti-American drivel. Having run Bridgestones, including Blizzaks, on several cars, I'm confident they'll do as well as the Michelins.

    Re: the CV/GM bulk - I find this GM easier to drive and park than a '99 Sable I had. You can see all four corners of the GM, and you do adjust to its bulk. That's four more corners than you could see on that Sable! And since walking is most of the exercise I get now, I generally park far away from other cars, which saves my car from the door dings that it inevitably would get from clods who don't think before flipping open a door in close quarters.

    Tell your wife, too, that a 4200# CV/GM will protect her better than a lighter car should she ever be unlucky enough to get smacked.

    Bulk ain't all bad, baby!

    Good luck!
  • ehaaseehaase Member Posts: 328
    Sales of the Crown Victoria and Grand Marquis really have dropped a lot lately. In November, the Grand Marquis was down almost 1/3 from a year ago, and the Crown Vic was down about 25 percent. The rumor is that these cars will be replaced by stretched Five Hundreds later in the decade.
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