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Comments
a Dodge Neon and a Nissan Sentra. I don't care what you say. The Neon's engine is louder than the Protege;s, but it's also a little faster. Refinement is missing in the car.
Also, my friend's Neon has 12,700 miles on it right now. Thus far, it has been in the shop twice. The first time, a broken left rear door latch. The second time: a peeling dash pad, replacement of the front brake pads and rotors, and replacement of the trunk latch. AND the engine idles so roughly that the dash and steering wheel vibrate. Of course, the Dodge dealer says that's normal for ANY 4-cylinder. I reaffirmed his answer and said it may be normal for any DODGE or any AMERICAN 4-cylinder, but my Mazda NEVER has done that, and it has almost 24K.
Also, my Protege has been in the shop twice. Once for a transmission that was shifting funny and a CD player that would not discharge CDs. The second time, the car shook at highway speeds. Turned out that ice was frozen in the wheels (during snow) and didn't defrost. They had to shoot hot water in and defrost them. But still, that's twice in 24K, for minor things.
And customer service with Dodge sucks! They told me if they couldn't have my car ready (Bob Banning Motors in Landover, Md.) by closing, they did NOT have loaners or rentals. They would "put my car back together the best they could" and I would have to bring it back the next day. I told him he would be very sorry if it wasn't ready at 6 when I got there. Needless to say, they called at 20 minutes of 6 and the car was done.
Dodge surely is Different alright. They are sad. They have good-looking cars, but their mechanicals suck.
Also, is your friends NEON a 5sp or an auto? I've heard that the auto has a higher rev speed and hence higher noise, at highway speed 70-80MPH.I do not own a auto NEON, so someone who has one will have to confirm this.I've also heard that on a moderately long incline the Neon auto will randomly downshift.This would be annoying ,if true.I don't have an auto NEON, so once again,someone will have to reply.
I also test drove a Protege' and found it to be refined and pleasant,but a rather dull car,both in performance,and style.My dealer model also had an annoying chassis rattle at a certain rev range. I would, however, have bought it, had it not been for me driving the NEON later.The VW Passat V6 was kinda nice but damn expensive, and also rather dull.A well-made microwave is an anology that comes to mind.
As to your friend's Dodge, and Dodge dealers. I have to believe you.I've heard horror stories about Dodge dealers,but also rather bad ones on Mazda and Honda dealers,so where do we go from here? My Volvo dealer abroad was a horror,and so was the car.
Tell your friend to make sure he has a folder in which he places all documentation of problems with his NEON.He may need it for the future .Also tell him to check to see if his dealer is a Five Star DC dealer. Five Star DC dealers get special discounts on vehicles and other items based on sales, and CUSTOMER SATISFACTION reports.If he calls Chrylser Customer Support in Michigan and complains, PLUS sends a corresponding letter at the same time, he'll be swamped with call from Bob Banning.
Apparently what DC does is immedialtely call the dealer and request a report on the incident. They then demand that the dealer call the customer and make them happy. They then call back the customer, and ask if he has been contacted by the dealer and is now happy.
If he has NOT been contacted, and is NOT happy, they read the riot act to the dealer and remind them of how quickly their status( and loss of either cars and incentives) can be initiated.
How do I know this? Let's just say that a disgruntled formed employee of a Five Star DC dealer informed me of this.The key point is to document and THEN contact Chrysler Customer Support, INSTEAD of bitching to the dealer (who laughs in your face without the threat of DC's Cust.Support penalizing them).Most people do not know this, and hence the dealer abuses them. DC is now very stringent on wayward dealers.Perhaps the German side of the company is being projected??
Should this have to be the way to live with a car dealer? No way!,but that's the way of the DC world.
In all of our subsequent posts, it's still going to come to"My experience/opinion with my or X's car".If tomorrow my NEON breaks down,you'll hear it from me,but if it doesn't and goes to.., let's say..24K
without a problem..,is it a better car than a Protege'?
Or is it just "My experience/opinion with My or X's car" ?We really need hard data on NEON 2K (not 95-99)and Protege'2K's.
Data on recalls,warranty usage,total cost of ownership,would go a long way to end the neverending (but fun!),"My experience/opinion with MY or X's car".
Back to you.
Vocus: Mobay is correct about dealers you should attempt (if you havent already) to call DC about your dealer and your friends neon problems and they WILL take the neccessary action. Believe me I had problems with a 5star dealer and I called DC after the manager said "he could'nt do anything about my problem" Whatever, I had DC rectify that real quick! There is nothing worse than having big problems with your car and then to have a dealer that disrespects you. I'm just curious, did your friend buy his neon in early-mid 99? I do know that this time frame does have some potentially big problems and there are several TSB's on them. There is a website on neon TSB's if you want to check on them.
Noise wise their isn't a big difference. The protege can get loud too. especially in the wind noise category.
I drive a neon but I also really like both the Protege and the Focus. If the focus looked better I would have seriously considered one.
Lastly, Vocus your wrong about Protege's not used as rentals. I have 2 or 4 at my rental branch that I work at.
peace
-Beanboy
-Beanboy
All I ever get driving my neon of 2.5 years is many smiles, there are many other cars I'd rather have out there but none cost under $15000 let alone the $11000 my loaded Neon cost. Yeh it was in the shop twice in the first year and a half for minor problems. The 2 different dealers were both amazing and neither was where I actually bought the neon in the first place. The most recient trip (a year ago) was because it idled rough one time upon start up and almost stalled causing the check engine light to come on. I took it in and got an updated program put in the computer and the changed the plugs and wire for free as 1 cylinder had higher resistance readings even though it was in spec, I also had them replace the front brake pads are they had a very minor squeel at light break pressure. It didn't really affect anything (my mom's 99 VW is way worse) but hey, free pads. I plan on watching the headgasket closely until warrenty expires and if it does I know Dodge will fix it out of warrenty for $100. Sorry but I never here about the other makes giving this kind of care, if anything they are worse because they will do anything to protect the image they are above such problems. Look at Honda Oddyssey transmission problems, Toyota v-6 head gasket problems and a mysterious 'sludge' buildup in the oil, Honda accords crap distributers that cost as much as neon headgaskets regularly every 60000 miles. Sorry I don't know much about mazada, I have never rellay cared enuf to look. I guess they must be perfect.
Point is all cars have there share of problems, no one car let alone an entire make of cars are seriously more reliable then the next. So for me it comes down to bang for the buck and Dodge always leads this catagory in everything they sell from the lowly Neon to the mighty Viper.
He decided he wants to get rid of the Neon after a little over 6 months and 12,500 miles. He has been driving the Protege and wants to keep it. So, I am going to sell him my car and I am going for a 2000 or 2001 Protege ES, loaded. It will probably cost more than the Neon, but it will be worth it. Also, the "crappy" dealer I went to is called Bob Banning Dodge/Pontiac in Landover, Md. If you don't believe me, pull up their website by searching. Their customer service sucks butt there. My Mazda CS experiences haven't been perfect either, but at least they call me when the car's finished. Also, they readily would offer a loaner car if my car had to stay in the shop overnight. This place wouldn't and told me flat out they would "put the car back together the best they could" and I could bring it back the next day for the remaining work. I was appaled that they would think that, let alone say it to a customer.
Just because 10 peoples' Neons have been good to them and reliable doesn't mean everyone's will. My friend just got a bad one I guess. So we are fixing the problem by dumping the junk and becoming a two-Protege household. Problem solved.
It just seems that almost everyone I know has trouble with DC products, and this reaffirms it.
I will say my friend's ex-wife has a 1996 Neon sedan that she never had problems with. That's why be bought the 2000, based on the experiences with the 1996 model. So I guess that means there are good ones and bad ones, like any manufacturer.
Just seems DC has more bad ones than good ones.
I have a 90 Shadow ES Turbo that has been driven everyday since new with no major problems. Still runs like new.
I had no qualms about my daughter getting a new 2000 Neon. She got an automatic and I drove it also and it seems adaquite for a 19 year olds first new car.
The choice was between that and a Civic but they are overpriced I think and the look is so stale after all these years. The New Neon is IMHO the best looking of the entry level cars.
I take care of my vehicles and do most maintenance myself and I am sure her new Neon will give her many miles of pleasure.
I buy Dodges cause I know Better!
I just spent some time with my son in California. He has a 95 Neon with the 5 speed. I drove that baby for quite a while. I was very, very impressed. It is like new on the inside. Drives beatifully, rock solid on the highway.
Very impressed by the seats. Much better than the seats in a 2000 Acura TL I drove recently. Also, nice gearbox.
My only complaint was the level of engine noise.
The only major problems he has had is a broken clutch cable and the infamous head gasket. Luckily, he had an extended warranty.
Ed
Lsauka- if you didn't pay $16500 then it really didn't deperciate $6500 did it? What did you pay? then you ratio that to the retail value, not the trade in (wholesale) value to find a resale percentage. I bet it's really no more then $2000 which is what you'd expect from a 1 year old Honda as well.
I did wayyyy better service at the Mazda dealer than at the Dodge dealership though. It was just this particular one, because when (over a year ago) I took my cousin's Jeep Wrangler in for brakes, they were very nice to me. There is no other word for the repair shop at Bob Banning motors than ghetto-rific.
The boys and girls at both midas and chrysler in my town are both nice to deal with.
I like both cars, I've also heard alot of people say they hate there protege's as well as people who hate there neons. One car a lot of people like is the echo. It ends up surprising them how much room and how peppy it is. to bad it gets tossed around in the wind.
You want to pick on some really crapy cars lets pick on sunfires and cavaliers cause in my mind there is no other cars worse in this class then them. They handle like crap, are so unconfomortable and are louder then hell.
top 5 cars in this class
1 focus or protege
2. focus or protege can't decide
3. neon
4. sentra
5. civic or elantra
The reason I got a neon the protege was a few thousand more expensive in Canada (that means a lot) and the focus's looks and interior soured on me a bit
Bob Banning told me if my car wasn't done at 6pm when they close, they would put it back together the best they could and return it to me. Then I would have to bring it back the next day. That is awful! I asked for a loaner or rental, and they said they didn't have one. They did, thank GOD, have the car ready at 6 when they closed.
Is is just me? I could have sworn that we've been through this before.
Anthing else to discuss?
As for Bob Banning, I would suggest sending his company an email, with this link and tell them to see all the post with his name mentioned.They'll either sue, or give your friend better service.
Send it to Chrysler customer support, and your friend may just get kissed by them north of the knees and south of the belly button.They will also string up Bob Banning's dealership by their gonads.
We've been here before,where do we go next?
BTW had my first oil change today. Put in 0-30W Synthetic. I swear the engine is idling slightly higher and feels ..,more.., how can I say..,less restricted.
Has anyone had the same experience?
PS: I RECANT ON THAT WIND NOISE ISSUE, THE NOISE IS COMING FROM THE 60 SERIES LOWER PROFILE TIRES BUT ONLY OCCASIONALLY,WIND NOISE ISNT BAD THE MAJORITY OF THE TIME EITHER. ENGINE: JUST PERFECT! SEE YA IN THE FUNNY PAPERS.....
YYEEEAAAAHHHH BABY!!! =^] 208 HP AFTERBURNIN NEON.
I own a 97 neon. I bought it 9 months ago and have had it in the shop at least 9 times. My car is on it's third computer and has a lot of electrical problems. After nine month of having my car in and out of the shop I am calling it quits and getting rid of the piece of junk. The Neon is a cute car but not a reliable car. For less money you can buy a brand new Kia or Hyundai with a good warrentty. I have also encounter the rude machanics. They aren't all in FL. My friend has a 95 neon and is also having a lot of problems with hers. In short skip the Neon.
Importfighter,I don't know what filter they put in, as I was not there when they did the oil change.Even though I could have gotten it done for free with using regular oil, I chose Synthetic. Cost was $28.00.
I'm still wondering about the "wind noise" issue.I have found the solution. Whoever is measuring the wind noise in a NEON at 70-80 MPH.., ROLL UP THE DAMN WINDOWS!. That has to be the explanation.Yeah, at 80MPH with my window rolled down, its noisy.But let's be realistic. How many people in the heat of summer or the cold of winter drive at speeds ABOVE 65MPH when there's A/C and a heater?
Slower speeds.., yeah, I do that not at my routine highway speed of between 70-80MPH.My car just did yet another 400 mile trip and I had no problem hearing every nuance of Beethoven's "Moonlight" piano sonata at those speeds.
Wilson 26,do not show any enthusiasm for the car while negotiating for it.Negotiate from the INVOICE price up not from the MSRP down.If they don't have a 5sp. tell them to find one, and then call you. I will tell you that they told me the same thing, and lo and behold they found one.I had to wait a while though.It was worth it.They can do a computer search for one.
They will try very,very strenuously to sell you a car on the lot. If it's not what you want,try another dealer.To find a 5sp with all the "trimmings" except for the sunroof may be hard,but, once again,really and truly worth it.
I paid 14,300 for a 5sp ES with Alloys,lighting package,ABS and traction,Premium sound (cd changer.., the whole nine yards),Keyless remote,Leather shifter and steering,etc,etc
BASICALLY EVERYTHING EXCEPT THE SUNROOF AND ENGINE BLOCK HEATER.
I was very dry and dull with the saleswoman (who was in actuality quite nice). When she asked the classic "what will it take for you to buy the car today?" I sacastically answered "What are YOU willing to do to sell me the car today"? I basically had the enthusiasm/interest of a person buying a toaster
I walked out of the dealership when we could not come to terms. I simply left a business card and said "I like the car, but there are others..,,call me if something can be worked out".Sure enough, a week later, something was worked out.There were many phone calls in between. I then bought the car. Coincidence or not, it was the end of the month,and perhaps that's a good time to buy.
I would not pay more than 14,500 for everything except the sunroof.Most dealers are doing initial ordering for the 2001 season, and need to reduce/eliminate their 2000 inventory.
If they come on strong and try the "I'm going to have to discuss this with my manager" bit, tell them this. "I'll allow you once, and just once, to talk to your manager and come back to me with an offer".Let them know that, in addition, you have no interest in having a conversation with their manager in tadem with the salesman (tag teaming).If they F#*K up and bring him,or stall. Politely get up ,leave you phone number. and LEAVE!
They'll try to get you back (and I mean physically!).Explain that your head hurts,(or you have an appointment)leave your contact info, and tell them to let you know, when they're ready to sell you the car.THEN WALK OUT!
I think you'll get good results.I did.
By all means get a 5sp.It's lovely and really is part of the reason I love mine.
Good luck, and be deliberate.It's your hard earned money.
If you are buying the car with cash, tell him you want the car, with the equipment you want, for invoice. If they want to sell you a car on the lot with equipment you dont want, offer to buy the car but not pay for the extra equipment!
If you are financing, figure out the monthly payment and terms you want and STICK TO THEM. If its 5000 down and 200/month for 48 don't let them talk you into 60 months at 200/month.
If you opt for the 1% financing you might find that the dealer doesnt want to negotiate too much from the retail price. I dont blame them as 1% financing is an awesome incentive.
Why? Because in the first year at 300/mo you will have 3500 more in equity in your car vs 6-9% where you will only have 1000-2000 more in equity (because your first years payments are mostly interest). That helps you keep pace with the aggressive depreciation that effects all cars in their first year.
If you can drive a manual transmission I highly recommend a 5 speed. You will also probably get a better deal on a 5 speed as that is not a popular option these days.
The popularity of automatic transmissions in small 4 cylinder cars mystifies me. Every car (no matter what the make) performs better and gets better gas mileage with manual transmissions. Manual transmissions are lighter, more efficient, easier to service, and less costly to replace and maintain that automatic transmissions.
If youre buying a big car or SUV I wold recommend an automatic to lug those beast around!
If you want to e-mail ...you can...rachel11@epix.net
Thank You!!!
Well, I am going on Saturday to buy one hopefully..so I will tell the dealer that I will buy an ES for less than 15,000..regardless of what the sticker says. Does that sound good?
My honda is in good shape...except it has a bad carborator..and it is obvious. Since the car is not paid off I know that they will put about $1000 on whatever I get..because they aren't going to pay it off for 2,600.
This is so frustrating..I am a 21 year old female..I doubt if anyone is going to give me a good deal.
We got a lot of rain here the past few days,
and I noticed today that the spare tire area under
the trunk carpeting is wet, there was probably
a pint of water. I kind of narrowed the search for
a leak down to the right side of the trunk, probably
back toward the tail light or down by the wheel well.
I read a few problems with neon leaky trunks--does
any one have any experience fixing them? Is this a
common problem? Thanks...Dan
I agree with hersbird. My basic advice stands. For all options MINUS the sunroof I would not pay more than $14,000 or $14,500. If you have the financing lined up and therefore can buy the car,they are idiots not to sell it at that price.
Plus they have the $1500 rebate and the Honda to deal with.
Mine invoiced at $17,400 but I paid $14,500 with tax and tags.
I am reminding you to get the 5spd. and not the auto.
If they won't deal with you for it at that price someone else will. You just gotta be brave and stick to your guns. The advice you've gotten from other's here is right on the money.
You CAN get the 5spd ES with all the goodies (except sunroof) for under $15,000.
Oh, by the way, inspect the car THOUROUGHLY!.Sometimes they have small dents or nicks from "lot abuse" and you can dicker on price by pointing it out. I found two on my car when it was at the dealer. Check aslo for alignment of the outer window pillar rubbers and seals.Make sure they give you two keys with the Keyless remote, and if you get the alloys ( I know you will,they're the bomb!)check for keys for the wheel locks.
Mine was missing so if I had gotten a flat, it would have been interesting removing the tire.
If you just say to yourself that I am going to pay no more than $XX,XXX, and stick to it you'll be allright. Dealers and saleman need to sell you a car more than you think.Dangle the carrot of a sale, but also let them know that you'll walk if they try to schmooze you.
Good luck!
OOps! sorry I forgot you. My apologies.
Have you checked the seal that is at the BASE of the rear window? It should have, at either end. a slight taper that allows water to run off into the area in between the trunk seal and the sheetmetal. The water then goes around the side of the tailights (the black plastic part that you can't see when the trunk is closed) and runs off underneath the car.
At least thats how mine works, and my trunk is as dry as a bone.They only other thing could be if the trunk seal is not securely glue/attached to the trunk area metal.
I told the guy I would be back tomorrow...so I need to get a price so I can stick to it. Also, I have the problem with my trade in...the loan pay off is 2,600 and I need that done.
Any advice?