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Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable Sedans Pre-2008
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Comments
You might have a point that the SEL versions should be loaded up with all the bells and whistles available, and maybe a few that are not such as rear discs and dual exhaust. This would raise their price some, but could still be less than the equivalent Accords and Camries, which fully loaded are pushing into the upper 20's.
My choice was lower on the options ladder. While I might appreciate rear discs and side air bags,the other options like dual exhausts, heated leather seats, upgraded audio is not worth the cost to me, thus I have a 2000 SES, which stayed well under $20K (acually $18k+TTL) but still had the Duratec.
Also the dealer is going to do a chemical flush on my 1999 tomorrow to remove the brown engine coolant. Warranty is up but will split the cost.
This board has been really slow lately. I even was forced to post in the Camry board, as there were a few people slamming Taurus in there that I thought were being too unfair.
Next is the exhaust, not sure what to do yet.
2001 SEL Silver, tinted windows 35%, K&N air filter, Silencer removed, relocated TAURUS(had to order from the dealer $15 each) badging to both sides on sail panels(just behind rear doors) and added V6 badging to trunk lid opposite of the key lock.
Happy trails!
I have not considered doing any performance enhancements, but swapping an air filter is easy enough.
My 2000 SES is now officially 2 years off the dealer's lot and at 18K miles, hasn't been back to the dealer but once for a minor windshield wiper recall.
Other than oil changes I do myself and one tire rotation (I am due for another), I have had zero maintenance costs. Still solid and rattle and squeek free.
I do notice that upon hard acceleration that the engine does not shake as much, like it breaths easier? Before the K&N it seems my engine was trying to hard to rev now it seems to do effortlessly. They do claim to give you 4-6 hp I believe, and removing the silencer will give you even a little more like 3-4 hp. So that is almost 10 hp for under fifty bucks, not bad.
This is a link to the silencer removal:
http://www.tauruscarclub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9429
Now the most interesting is that my friend called me the same day for advice. He was in the same town in Toyota dealership haggling for 2002 Camry XLE with 6 cylynders. It was exactly the same car like my Sable, except rear disk brakes and traction control plus side airbags. So he was ready to pay $26,000 (without taxes) and manager asking $29,000 told him that he is insulting him. I just couldn't believe him, he was ready to pay 8 grands more for almost the same car. I told him are you crazy man, leave dealership immediately, save your money. Later I let him to drive my car and he told me that it feels almost like Camry, though Camry has smoother acceleration and better stop distance, but not so much better to pay extra 8 grands I guess. So I told him wait man until 2003 Camrys arrive and then you will take it for free.
I want to know are current Taurus owners happy with their car? And would you buy a Japanese car instead of American?
thanks.
To answer your second question, I am VERY happy with our Sable. We have spent <$1K on repairs over the last 7 years. The only "major" repair was a water pump at about 100K. The clutch for the A/C compressor died around 95K. I don't think that was early as the compressor runs every day. I would recommend a Sable/Taurus to anyone.
Any ideas? I have a 2000 Vulcan V6.
In terms of build quality, the camry and accord win hands down. I drove a Civic EX for a year and everything was so well thought out, all the switches and gear just had a certain "feel" to them that spoke of quality. Long term reliability comes in here as well, as clearly the foreign cars have better records. However, american cars have come a long way and as many posters have noted, they have had high mileage Taurus and Sables with no problems.
Safety is a nebulous thing and all mid size sedans these days are pretty safe. Ford seems to be trying hard here with the first dual mode airbags, seatbelt pre-tensioners, adjustable pedals, available side airbags, safety release in trunk, solid 5 star crash numbers, etc. Also, the size of the car is a little bigger and at least against the accord the weight is higher. More size and mass generally mean a safer car.
Styling wise, I love the look of the Sable and feel the accord and camry are just wind tunnel designs that are pretty bland. Also, at least in the northeast, every third car seems to be a camry. Sables are a little more rare and look more distinctive.
Resale value -- Ford products depreciate really badly compared to the foreigns. Sold the civic I mentioned earlier after 1 year and broke even on the loan -- typically you'd be "upside down" in this situation. Would certainly have lost money on my current sable had I sold it after one year. But, everyone should really hold on to a car for 8 yrs or so this is sort of a moot point.
Bottomline is that as many others have said, cars aren't good investments, and we should buy what makes the most sense from an economic standpoint, as well as to some degree aesthetics. I drive well under 10,000 miles a year currently and figure the Sable will be more than reliable for the 10-12 years or so that I plan/hope on keeping it. If I drove 25,000 a year, I'd probably consider the camry or accord, even at an inflated price, since they could conceivably get to 250K miles with fewer problems. (Although at that point, buying a 12K econobox that gets 35+ mpg would probably be a better choice if you're doing that kind of road warrior mileage.) If I drove the average of 12K a year, I'd really consider the Sable. That $10K difference in actual cash should easily pay for the additional few repairs I might face on the sable, plus during the loan years, my costs would be easier to fit into my budget. If I was trading cars in every couple of years, well, I'd have more money than brains and it wouldn't really matter....
Taurus currently is a very good vehicle, with perhaps a little less "refinement" (which is very subjective anyways) than Camry and Accord, but for a lot less cost when comparably equipped. I believe the quality gap has narrowed as well.
With all the money you save over Camcords, you can certainly afford an extended warranty on your Taurus/Sable if you have doubts about long term reliability.
For those in the used car market,a one or two year old Taurus/Sables are quite a bargain, and I have seen one local dealer throw in a 10 year 100,000 mile warranty with these cars.
there's an organization called intellichoice that determines the overall cost of ownership over a 5 year period. the accord/camry finish near the top and the taurus/sable (not). as far as initial $10k savings, absurd.
Low financing incentives may result in higher purchase prices for Taurus. For example, on 2002's, the current choice is either $2500 rebates or 0% financing, not both. I believe Camry's have no rebate in place, just a low, but not zero financing incentive right now.
In any event, there are significant initial price differences between the two. Depending on how often you trade cars and what your annual mileage is, the total cost to own could vary widely. Anyone who only keeps their vehicle 2-5 years is going to take a bath on depreciation, it's just a question of how deep the water in the bathtub will be.
For myself, depreciation means little, as I plan on keeping my Taurus 10 years (I did my last one), and neither a 10 year old Taurus or a 10 year old Camry is going to be worth much. I sold my '90 to a private party for $2k when it was 10 years old. So initial cost is more of an issue with me. With the much better reliability of nearly all new cars, I contend reliability issues are becoming less important to the decision making process.
the 03 accords tops out at $26k (i refuse to count the nav system models, buy a map) and are available with no or little discount. but this is only temporary and will soon be available with $2k discounts. that leaves $24k. factor in the higher interest rate and you're still a long way from $10k or $7k.
I will leave it up to others to respond with more detail if they want, but I do not think the above cost comparisons are too far off base.
Take your pricing war to another board.
Next time you get in your foreign car thank God and the men and women(United States Armed Forces) who died for your right to drive it. Stay out of the way of our(what you call bad cars)we might not be able to stop from hitting you. Leave us patriotic US auto buying people alone.
God bless AMERICA! and my Taurus(Silver bullet)
You better look under the hood of that Taurus. I'm pretty sure I saw the words Bosch on some parts under my Taurus's hood. We now live in a world economy. Honda assembles a lot of their vehicles here. Ford has shipped jobs to Mexico; did I say Contour.
I don't give a damn what Intellichoice says about ownership. A lot of that cost is slanted towards depreciation. That's why I bought my Taurus used. I was shopping a Honda Accord at the same time. Found out the Accord cost 300 more a year to insure. Wonder if Intellichoice figured that in?
Even if you buy a Taurus/Sable new you'll get a great deal. Are they perfect, don't think so; but they are a pretty good value.
Why would I care if Ford makes money. Are some of my mutual funds tied into Ford Stock? They have made the Vulcan engine for at least 17 years. They interchange parts among different models.This helps keep the cost low. They make a ton of profit on Explorers and Expeditions. Do you really think it cost 60% more to make a Expedition? It's a profit center; same thing for their trucks.
I have no problem with Honda Boy coming onto this board. The Honda board has some pretty ridiculous postings.They also like to slam American Iron without fact. There also a few idiots who think Japanese paint and labor are superior. Don't think so.
But don't say he can't express his opinion. I find it healthy. This board is all too quite at times. A little difference of opinion can only get things moving and people discussing and sharing information.
That will allow folks who are not interested in that sort of debate to continue here in this dedicated discussion, and folks who do want to debate to carry on in an environment created for the specific purpose of debate.
Capiche?
(Wonder how you spell that...)
Pat
Sedans Host
which has 120K on it. I'll use it as my "airport"
car since I'm tired of driving my beloved Tundra (I had a bad experience with an F-150) to Atlanta airport and parking it there for a week. What kind of stuff should I be looking for when I start driving this car? Engine and tranny seem fine and the price is right!
Yes, that's figured in.
thanks for your comments about allowing dissenting opinions. i hope your viewpoint is more representative on this board than the previous posters. very unamerican in spirit.
not quite sure how i'm slamming the taurus by saying it doesn't cost $10k more for a comparable accord.
Sable LS Premium has a TMW of about 22K but are advertised in the Boston area for 18,999. At the time of my post, I'm 90% sure that Ford did have a 0% 60 month offer available. (I remember since this deal was so much better than the one I got in 2000 when I bought a Sable.)
Camry XLE comes up with an Edmunds TMV of just under 26K. Options can push this higher, and you'll need to select some to get the same equipment level as the Sable. Based on just the TMV, the difference is 4K, with a real world spread in my area of 7K (26K - 19K).
Ford financing is now showing 2.9% for 60 months on the Sable, while Toyota has no promotional offerings in the Boston area. Figure you can get maybe 5.5-6% on your own for 60months. Fully finance both and the interest difference is 1500. At the time of my post, 0% vs 5-6% would be about $2300.
7K price difference plus 2300 interest savings = about 10K.....
Intelli-choice will factor in insurance and depreciation, and yes I'm taking a bath on depreciation....but I plan to keep the car for 10-12 yrs so depreciation doesn't really affect me. Up front purchase price and interest savings are real dollars you don't need to shell out. Any Intelli-choice numbers for a holding period of 10yrs?
why would tmv be off by $3k. not saying you're wrong, just thought tmv is supposed to be adjusted for a particular area?
edmund2460
boy are you asking for it, good luck. i'll just add that some of these japanese transplant cars also have high domestic content in terms of parts. and it's true the profits go back to japan, but billions of dollars are invested right back into this country. they don't have a problem with american labor.
It is that plain simple that you save a money buying Taurus or Sable esp well equipped.
If you don't beleive me consider Matrix and Vibe. Matrix outsell Vibe 2 to 1 (35,000 vs 20,000 so far). And it is exactly the same car. Uninformed customers pay the price. When my friend went to buy Camry XLE he didn't have an idea what the price is. Salesman and manager in Toyota were just fooling him. He called me to find in Internet the invoice. Toyota dealership didn't allow him to use computer. They just trying to make big money on him, as simple as that. He was really angry and furious after that experience. But he deserved it. You have to be prepared before going to dealership and don't believe the hype.
P.S. I wonder why Ford doesn't give some kind of visial notification when you press unlock or lock on your keyless remote. I would love to have my headlights and/or taillights flash.
I got charged about 2.5 hours of labor by the dealer for this repair. New a Ford Dealership mechanic; he said this is fairly common. He liked this job because they can get it done it about 45 minutes.
Not sure why this is, but this price has been like this for months. Paid 19.5 for my 2000 and at the time could not figure out how they made any money on the car since my cost appeared to be below the invoice price per Edmunds. They had probably 15 of these on the lot at the time, so figured they got some discount based on volume.
It's a mystery, but also a great deal. The new LS has a platinum trim option and got new lights under the side view mirrors and the cost went down $500 from 2 yrs ago????
I think Edmunds TMV is does not account for rebates and other dealer incentives that allow for much lower prices than TMV.
If you don't understand how Ford does these prices, it is likely because Ford wants to keep their plants up and running. With the union contracts that are in place, it costs them nearly as much when a plant is idle than when it is operating. With the weak economy, low prices and incentives keep sales up and the factories open.
Just makes you wonder what kind of profits Honda and Toyota and their dealers are raking in, given the substantial additional prices they are commanding for equivalently equipped cars.
They should buy more Camries, since it is the #1 car. Fill the lots with them to erase their imagined resale value.