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Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable Sedans Pre-2008
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Ford to Replace Taurus With Model Based on Mazda
Friday December 13, 12:45 am ET
DETROIT -- Ford Motor Co. is developing a replacement for its aging Taurus midsize sedan -- once the best-selling car in America and an industry icon -- based on the new Mazda6 sedan from its Japanese affiliate, Mazda Motor Co., Friday's Wall Street Journal reported, citing executives.
With its rounded styling and front-wheel drive, the original Taurus was a big hit and helped Ford out of deep financial trouble during the 1980s. But shifting tastes and unsuccessful recent designs have left the Taurus uncompetitive with newer models from Japan in recent years. Ford now sells more than half the Tauruses it builds to rental and other fleets. Toyota Motor Corp.'s Camry and Honda Motor Co.'s Accord now dominate at the top of the car-sales rankings.
With foreign rivals now attacking their strongholds in the sport-utility- vehicle and pickup-truck markets, Ford and the other U.S. auto makers are trying to shore up their largely dated car lineups, often relying on foreign affiliates to do much of the work.
Ford executives hope the Mazda-based cars, which are likely to hit the market by mid-decade, will be competitive with the Camry and Accord.
By using the Mazda vehicle as a basis for its new model, Ford is hoping to save on engineering and parts costs through greater combined volume. Wall Street Journal Staff Reporter Norihiko Shirouzu contributed to this report.
Is Mazda6 built in Flat Rock Plant, where Ford and Mazda have shared manufacturing in the Past?
Personal view, the vast quantities of Taurii being sold to fleets is pure bunk. All of the big three sell a lot of rental vehicles.
No IMO Tarus sales are no more inflated by rentals than say Pontiac TransAM, or Dodge Stratus, or Chevy Malibu. Heck, even these days I see a lot of Civics, Camarys, and Maximas in the lots.
Mazda didn't want to use Mondeo platform, cause kinda why we great Japanese engineers have to use someone else platform (for those who don't know Mondeo platform is one of the best in industry and was developed by German engineers) we can develop our own platform better than Mondeo. Is it actually better or not is still a question, we will see soon. But another question is why Ford doesn't want to use its own Mondeo platform.
i had heard the next taurus would be a volvo derivative chassis.
the 6 chassis has awesome dynamics but lets hope the next taurus has much more headroom and rear seat room than the 6.
Car went in at 8 am and by noon time I picked it up. Service was inexpensive, quick and convenient. All around good experience.
I've never been happy with dealer service departments until now.
Good luck!
The current generation is much improved over that one and over your '86.
I would go with the Duratec if you like a little more boost, and I understand the Duratec is a bit smoother as well.
Depending on how you equip it, you can get a base Taurus brand new for maybe a little over $15K, and should be able to buy a very well equipped one for well under $20K.
Venus537, no denial going on here. I read the reviews of the competition. I have not driven the competition recently, ie Camry, Accord, Passat, Altima, but I am sure they are very good cars, and likely deserve their good reviews. I still think that Taurus is one of the better bargains out there, and I personally don't care how many fleet sales Taurus has. The Taurus basic redesign in 96 upgraded the structure of the car to one of the most rigid around, and the improvements implemented at the 2000 model year much improved the suspension, transmission smoothness, interior quietness and quality to a point where it definitely will satisfy a majority of the family size sedan market and not flatten your wallet.
"the only reason these cars are considered to have any kind of value is because they sell at such huge discounts"
Duh....
My point exactly. Tauri sell at large discounts which is exactly part of the reason they are a good value. I prefer to keep my money in my pocket, not the dealer's or for that matter the manufacturer's. If the dealers and Ford are willing to discount, why should I not take advantage and get a good deal?
RIGHT ON BADGERFAN!!
I test drove a new 2002 SES, 24V, Loaded out last night. The window sticker was around $23,000 and I was quoted a sale price of $18,500. Now try and go into a Japanese dealership and get the same type of discount.
I'm not going to buy a new Taurus but will find a used one for even more savings. Typically you can buy a year old car with under 20K, loaded out for around $15,000.
By the way - I've own a lot of Fords and I sold Fords for 3 years in the late 80's and early 90's. THE BEST DAY OF THE YEAR TO BUY A NEW CAR OF ANY KIND IS DECEMBER 24TH. You can shoot a cannon through most dealerships and not hit a customer on that day. The sales managers will opt for just about any sane price you name. They have to answer to the dealership owners if they don't get at least a respectable sale count for the day. Don't wait until after Christmas because (oddly enough) the week between Christmas and New Years is crazy with buyers. The reason for that is that a lot of people get Christmas bonuses and also there are a lot of people that want to buy a car in the current year to depreciate it out (if they use it for business).
I test drove an '02 wagon with traction control in the snow the other day (big fun, but THE BRAKES...
My question - is that spongy brake feel normal? Are they all like that? If I squeezed it I could get the anti-locks on, but I felt like I was sinking through the floor!
I was attracted to the car for its safety ratings and overall value. Even today, ABS, leather, moonroof, automatic climate control, wood accents, are found only in cars starting in the mid $20s and higher.
I'm approaching 50,000 miles and have had no problems. The Duratec engine is powerful and smooth and the 4 speed automatic is works well, if just a bit rough at times.
The fit and finish has always impressed me and I prefer the interior materials to that of similar Accords or Camry's.
My wife has driven the car around town and we take most long trips in it. Eight, nine, and ten hours on the road and the car just wisps along and keeps us comfortable. I look forward to the day when we buy my wife a new car and the Sable rounds out its life with me commuting 100+ miles a day.
Hard to imagine people paying that much and more for a 4 cyl Camry with less bells and whistles as well.
The downside, of course is that the struggling economy is forcing down prices on new cars. Unemployed people or people fearing potential unemployment are not likely to buy at any price.
Also, in this sales region the SES comes with leather and a moonroof for no charge. That's $16,930. My good friend almost bought one, but he decided to keep his 93 Jeep Cherokee with 130,000 miles a couple of more years.
atcers: i would get MORE than $17K. then again, maybe one wouldn't be able to get a $6k discount on a sable in my area either.
Honda's, Toyota's, etc. are not immune to it either. VW's as well.
Yes you can rant on about a lot of these vehicles going into fleets, but again I say, so what? If you build cars, why wouldn't you exploit every possible customer base? You have got to realize that Ford has two plants,in Chicago and Atlanta, able to produce these cars in high volume. Due to union contracts, it is more expensive for them to shut the plants down than to keep producing. Thus you see the great pricing and incentives available and Ford's willingness to sell to fleets. Yes, this situation may squeeze Ford's profitability, but does not necessarily mean there is lack of demand, just an axcess of manufacturing capacity. Just look at all the manufacturers trying to grab a piece of the US market these days. It is very difficult for any manufacturer to obtain really substantial volume to support two full assembly plants.
I guarantee you if Honda or Toyota had the manufacturing capacity in the US for Accord and Camry that Ford does for Taurus/Sable, you would likely be seeing them pushing more incentives as well.
Venus537, what did you pay new for your 2002 Jetta and what was the MSRP? If you spent over $20k, I personally cannot see spending that much for a Jetta, which while a nice car, is not really in the same size/classification as a Taurus. It is actually closer to a Focus. Jetta back seat capacity is probably even smaller than a Focus.
The postings quarrel about resale values, better cars, top selling cars, etc. Can't we just be happy with the car we drive, assuming it gives us good value, a minimum of problems, and a very fair amount of comfort?
I'd drive a Blitzmobile if it met the above criteria. Since Blitz's aren't manufactured on planet Earth, I opted for a Sable - not once, but twice. A car that stays out of the shop and on the road is worth its weight in gold, (well, almost!), and this is the reason I bought a second Sable - the first never casting its shadow in a dealer's garage from the day I bought it. My 2000 seems to be going the same way.
One can think of many other reasons not to buy a car, (not top selling, bad resale, poor radio knobs, etc.,etc.), but when the car you do pick suddenly hits the dealer's repair shop for two or three days, many of these reasons suddenly become superfluous, especially if you're bumming rides from friends or relatives, taking cabs, or blowing $40 a day on a rental car.
Pick the car that stays on the road, doesn't give you a slipped disc, and doesn't pig out at the gas pumps. Yes, there are cars other than Sable that do this, yet I haven't found the need to look for one of these. In other words, I'm happy, and all this other rehtoric is just lip service - which it quite different than the dealer service which often sends chills up your spine, often giving way to great inconvenience and nightmares. If you have a good car - be happy - don't sweat the small stuff !
people who do buy camrys and accords over tauruses do it for more than just reliability.
bcbjr420: i just checked my april 2002 issue of consumer reports and the jetta is rated higher than the taurus (car rating section, not reliability). this is just my foolish opinion, but i think it's laughable that one would think the taurus/sable is of higher quality. the taurus/sable does a much better job as a family sedan though. it's torture for adults sitting in my back seat.
First, your Jetta is not in the same car classification as a Taurus. If you want to compare a VW midsize non-luxury (ie affordable for the average Joe) family car, then you should be comparing Passat with Taurus, not Jetta, and you will be paying much, much more for the equivalent Passat.
Second, yes Accords and Camrys and maybe even Passats are good cars, and most of us in this discussion are not saying they are bad (even though Camry seems to have slipped some on the reliability front with its latest generation and VW seems to have a spotty reliability record these days).
Third, yes people buy certain cars for a lot of reasons, some of which are perceived quality and reliability, styling, performance, price, snob appeal, mileage and probably a for a lot of other tangible and intangible reasons. Two of these, perceived quality and reliability which seems to receive a lot of emphasis when it comes to family size sedans these days, does not necessarily correlate with actual quality and reliability, especially when one looks at the initial price differential between Taurus and its "higher quality" competitors.
So, what exactly is your beef with Taurus, or are you just trying to bait the people who happen to really like their Tauri? Have you even driven one lately? You may be very surprised at what you are missing.
Both Golf and Taurus platform getting long in the tooth but still hold very well against competition. BTW Bora/Golf (German names of Jetta) are kinda German Taurus/Sable and sales of Golf are slipping in Germany because of aging platform, just like Taurus in USA. Gold loosing it to Peugot 306.
The difference is that in America we get bigger and more comfortable car for the same price. Interior of Sable is pretty good in my opinion, material are of high quality. Though there is thing like german wormanship, but it is more a cultural thing. You cannot get the same workmanship for the same price in the car that is two notches up (actually Taurus/Sable is in midclass, or D-class in Europe, and Passat is C class, or compact). Okay let me explain, A class is subcompact, kind of Lupo or Fiesta, B class is Focus, Golf, Corolla; C class is Mondeo, Passat, A4, Vectra, Toyota Avensis; D class is Scorpio, Omega/Catera, Camry, Audi A6 and etc, VW has nothing to offer in D class, it is actually considered as a luxury class in Europe; E class is A8, BMW 7 series and etc. Most popular massproduction class in Europe is B class, and in USA is D class.
my top candidate for my next car is the mazda 6 and i could be part of the ford family in a indirect sort a way.
this is getting way off topic. true, they are in the same size class but as you say, the jetta is more (i say way more) upscale and should cost more. stuff like standard side and curtain air bags, standard 4 wheel disc brakes, available 200hp v6 engine, available 5 speed auto w/tiptronic and an interior decor of a car costing twice as much will do that.
i will no longer talk about the jetta in this topic and thank everybody for their patience.
You really have to drive one for an extended period of time to appreciate it for what it is, a very reasonably priced comfortable, quiet, reliable. spacious and decently handling car built on a very rigid platform. And, you won't get that just by looking at it and sitting in it at a car show, by the way.
Even Consumer Reports, in their 2003 separate new car issue, which came on the stands about a month ago, gave it at least grudging praise saying it was a good car among a group (in this size classification) of excellent cars. Reliability is near or equal to the competition. And, though CR never actually uses out the door buy prices as a rating factor, if they did they would rate Taurus tops in that factor, just like Edmunds did when they compared 2000 family sedans. Just check out that comparison sometime. In that rating, Taurus came in third our of ten, just a hair behind Passat and the previous generation Accord.
Edmund2460, I believe the reason there are not a lot of posters here is for several reasons. Taurus is really a bread and butter car, which the enthusiasts who are more likely to post in this site are not all that interested in. Additionally, if you read back the last 8-12 months, you will see very few people posting about significant problems with the current gen Taurus. This is a good sign, but also means the quantity of people posting is low. Contrast that with Accord, Camry, and yes Jetta boards where there are numerous postings about unresolved rattles in all three models, the Toyota sludge issue, Honda Accord V-6 automatic transmission problems, etc. Nothing like a problem, perceived or real, to get a lot of people posting. These kind of issues, I believe are really not present with the current generation Taurus/Sable. Also, some of Edmunds discussions are distorted by a few posters who post a lot of times. How else do you explain the great volumes in the Olds Intrigue discussion-a car that is no longer even being built?
I live in a busy urban environment, and never get the chance to truly enjoy driving on deserted twisty roads or empty highways. No matter when or where I drive, there is always traffic, so a more powerful engine, faster 0-60, or better handling is really a non-issue since it's hard to find a place to take advantage of what I already have! (Try driving to Maine or New Hampshire on a weekend from Boston and you're in bumper to bumper traffic for miles.)
So the car is fairly responsive with the 200hp V6, has lots of nice bells and whistles (leather, auto climate, sunroof, CD changer, power everything) to keep me interested and amused, is considerably bigger and perhaps a little safer than many of the alternatives out there, and offers a comfortable ride, at a much much lower price. Reliability to date has been fine, and it would take some pretty horrific repairs to match the price savings I achieved over the foreign makers. (eg: as much as 5-7K)
With so-called "entry level" cars like the Focus, Toyota Matrix, Civic, Corolla and the like costing 16K or more, the Sable at about 18-19K loaded to the gills is a steal.
I agree that the Camry is a better car, particularly for a high mileage driver, but the top of the line Camry V6, with similar options as the Sable LS, is in the high 20's. (for example, the sunroof is an 800+ option on the Camry, standard on the Sable.) I'm not sure what price one places on "peace of mind", but they are certainly charging a high one!