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Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable Sedans Pre-2008
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Comments
My other options are 2002- 626/galant 28K miles at 10K
or 2002 -taurus/malibu at 10.5K , 25K miles.
While, I realize that these cars are not really comparable and that the maxima is a better car, which do you guys think is the better deal. Price is quite important to me, but i can spend more if I know it will work out better in the long run.
thanks!
Mine is for sale. I have a new Camry XLEV6. BTW, I went to a Ford dealer to check out a late model, and would you know that the salesman did not know what I was talking about when I asked to drive a Duratec. He had to go check with the mgr. and came back saying that they didn't get any because it was 'price-prohibitive'!! This is a large volume dealer.
On both vehicles I bought exteneded warranty. On Mercury in was about $1000 for 5/100,000 not bumper to bumper, but still covering all crucial parts incluing AC and brakes.
On Camry in was about $700 for same extension but bumper to bumper.
A very good idea to buy extended warranty. BTW friend of mine has Maxima and transmission died at 70,000 miles. If you take Taurus take with 24 valve Duratec. If you are comparing with Maxima don't even consider Taurus with basic engine.
BTW, I felt that way too some years ago when I bought a Taurus wagon and a Sable. I lost all of this price difference in repairs. Now my Sable at 115K is worth less than a Honda Civic DX of the same year and same mileage. I have about $21K in the car over 1o years.
I know the answer will be that the new cars are better, but we will have to wait and see....
I'm making this point only to point out that stats tell different stories from our subjective opinions. I'm not car bashing or trying to change people's choices.
Sugar Cookie
better than a taurus (regarless of its engine). go with the maxima. it's reliability is top notch and there will be much more demand for the max if you decide to sell it later.
But look at latest Motor Trend one year report. They replaced oil and AT gaskets on almost new Camry !
But I will report how is going on with Sable Premium and Camry XLE, just for comparison. XLE has currently about 4,000 miles and Sable - 11,000 miles. No problems yet, recalls or dealer trips except of oil chane yet.
I can tell you that XLE is not very popular, thats why they sold it with big discount despite all the high quality (that is actaully on Lincoln level). Because asking price was about 30 grands and for that money you can buy something more exiting.
With Ford actually problem always was that they didn't pay attention to product much, at least in NA. They were more busy with political games inside company, buying those European brands, they just squandered hard earned money IMHO.
So only the maxima and malibu are left to decide between! I test drove both today and the malibu was better than I expected. With the price at 10K for a malibu 2002 used with 27K miles and 15.5K for maxSE 02, my mind says malibu cause its much cheaper. but my heart says maxima! Which puts me in a dilemma!
While, price is certainly a big factor to me as I'm just getting out of college and also I don't really need a maxima type of car right now. But I can get the maxima through financing if the deal is good and if it'll be a better and more economical car in the long run. I wanted to know what you guys thought about it as most of you own maximas. Also, would you know anything about the difference in insurance rates for the 2 cars. I'm thinking that the maxima will have a much higher premium.
My 2000 Taurus has been perfect so far at 25K miles. (And besides, the Maxima is kinda ugly)
Malibu is pretty fast and agile, but not refined, especially engine is old tech 3.4L. Taurus is more refined and modern vehicle for that matter. You can try also Old Alero. It looks more sporty and cool. Basically they are the same vehicles with Malibu, but Malibu is more like family sedan and Alero is more personal car, esp coupe and interior is more driver oriented. I even wanted to buy Alero one time, but didn't like how it was executed and outdated platform that feel unrefined.
I didn't drive Maxima, I know that it has excelent engine. But rear suspension is not independent. It has Stewart-Russel multi-link beam rear suspension what is a torsion beam-axle or something like that. So handling may be not so good. But it should be real fast, thats why people like it. I don't know really how it feels though.
edmund2460 - All XLEs have V6, it is most luxurous Camry, and more luxurous than any Taurus and Sable. Even interior is desined differently. Package that we choose has everything including traction control and side airbags. Actually I don't own Camry. I bought it for my close friend. He is shy and don't understand much in cars so I had to do research, find deal, negotiate, shoose warranty and all that stuff. He even asking me when and where to go for oil change and so on. Chain wasn't a priority, but you can look into maint guide. Typically you have to change time belt around 60,000 miles with water pump. We bought vehicles the same week, both new and 2002. So yes I will keep you guys informed. But I drive more miles. He commutes in his older '97 Camry that was laden with problems.
Some Camry XLEs are 4 cylinders.
from http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=43345
If you're interested in talking for 5 minutes about the car, please email me at lanetef@yahoo.com
Has anyone read or heard something on this topic, and if yes where?
I would start out low, maybe $14K-$15K or so, and see how they respond. If you hold tight and don't budge too quickly, you may be surprised what a good deal you can get. After all you are really have the advantage here, especially when the dealer has 5 still on the lot, and is likely very anxious to unload them.
Good luck!
I have a 2000 SES Duratec and it has been excellent. No defects, only one minor recall for a windshield wiper potential problem. I do not think there are any glaring reliability problems in the current generation of Taurus. Very little complaint activity on this and on the Maintenance and Repair Taurus boards is a good sign.
Highway mileage I would guess would top out at about 28-29 max. The only full highway test I did was last winter and got 27 with fairly cold temperatures and fairly strong headwind on the first part of the drive, running 65-75 most of the time.
I too noticed for a quite a long time that the headlights on my 2000 Sable aren't all that bright. I guess neither was I when I decided to buy Ford. I have some gripes regarding my last visit to the service department. But that is besides the point.
To supplement illumination I turn on the fog lights. Pretty mediocre alternative.
I believe I read somewhere when I was researching before buying my 2000 Taurus that they had improved the headlights quite a bit from the last generation.
In general clear-lense headlights are less effective than old fashioned headlamps. It was a matter of fashion when they changed more effective old Taurus headlamps to the clear-lense ones in '96 Taurus. There was so heated debate inside DN101 team about new lamps that leading headlight engineer resigned after all, but because at the time Honda Accord had already clear-lense headlamps it was decided to go in the same direction to beat 'em (and Toyota for that matter that continued to use old approach even in '97 Camry, what is a proof that it is not fashionable headlights or flamboyant style that sell midsize family car).
But anyway, even clear-lense headlamps can be excelent, no question about it. It is more about engineering - how good are software and engineers, how much resources and time you have, what are specs and etc.
Regarding brakes, I don't notice any difficulties with mine. I read in reviews that they feel "spongy", I believe is the description I saw.
I have never read any reports anywhere about poor headlights in Taurus/Sable before these recent posts and have not noticed any problems with my Taurus-and it does not have fog lights available anyways.
Ford claimed that headlights in the current generation Taurus are 20% brighter than the past generation-this was in the Edmunds writeup for 2000 Taurus.
Are Sable headlights are poorer than Taurus? I don't know. I suppose it is a possibility as the exterior shape of the headlights are different, but being engineered by basically the same group in Ford, I doubt there is any appreciable difference.
If it had a cassette, I would just get a cassette adapter to run the audio from the laptop, but that is not an option. I also heard that there are FM transmitters than could be used, but they work poorly.
Someone said there is someway to tap into the unused factory CD changer input so I could connect the laptop or even a MP3 player and get full fidelity.
Anyone have an idea how this could be done?
It would be really cool to use the laptop to play MP3s and also simultaneously hear the navigation commands if that software was running at the same time.
Sable placed 1st place for Premium Midsize Car.
Here's the link if anyone wishes to view it.
http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2003028
For the next few months, I had the consistent oil leak maybe a few drops every few day. Took it back again and couldn't’t find the leak. Well last December, with maybe 25,000 mile and about 4 months out of new car warranty, while driving home from work in the shadier side of town, my check engine light came on and the engine shut down. I smelled oil burning. I opened the hood and check the dipstick and it still showed no oil and there was a huge puddle under the car, about 5 quarts worth.
At that Point I thought to myself thank God, I had ESP extended warranty. Well I called the 1-800 for roadside assistance. The rep on the line told me I had no roadside assistance coverage, had no record of me ever buying this car, even though I’m still paying for it through Ford Motor credit, His data base only showed me as owning a 1986 T-Bird (that car has been gone for about 6-7 years), and living at a address that I moved from about 8 years ago. He gave me the name of 2 guys who they use to tow. Now mind you this all was happening in the shadier side of town it’s dark and about 6pm. I called the first guy and he said it would be about 3 hours before he would come, called the second guy, and he just laughed about the location the car was at and hung up. At that point I called the dealer and by luck they were still there. The owner of the dealership called Ford and bamm, in 10 minutes I got a call from roadside assistance asking where I was and there will be a tow truck there in 15 minutes.
Back at the dealership, they checked out the car and it seemed that the oil filter exploded this time draining the oil out in seconds. Oil was all over the engine compartment along with the road. So the dealership diagnosed the problem as a faulty oil pump. They gave me a loaner car and in about a week, had the new oil pump in. Brought the car home and for the next 3 weeks still saw the few drops of oil on the garage floor. Brought it back to the dealer once again and they took it apart again making sure they did not do a faulty job replacing it the first time. Did a dye check etc. About a week or two later got a call from them and they said it was ready to go. Brought back my loaner, picked up my car and sure enough for the next month I had the constant 3-5 inch diameter leak on my garage floor. I called the dealership and ask if they would like me to take it somewhere else. They said no, they would give it one more shot. This time after talking to Ford, they took the engine out of the car and found a small leak between the upper and lower block. Yes, the 3.0 Duratec has an upper and lower block and there is a seal between the two blocks. Well that was almost 6 weeks ago and my car is still with out an engine, sitting on a lift at the dealer.
Come to find out Ford ESP is demanding from the dealership refund for the second visit where the dealership double check the work done to replace the oil pump. I think the around is $900. The dealership said they did the right thing, fix the first problem, the oil pump that was probably turning out 300psi enough to blow apart a metal oil filter and possibly blow a gasket between the upper and lower block. Also they found scoring on the camshaft and cam bearings. The dealership wants Ford to send a new engine. I also want a new engine. The car has 26,000 mile and the mileage is not increasing anytime soon. Ford said they should have found the problem the first time. I called the Ford customer no-service number, they were very sympathetic but said they can’t do anything about the problem they are strickly new car only and said that ESP and the dealership will work it out.
I’m very thankful that the dealership is giving me a loaner, as I really need a vehicle. Ford ESP is a different division of Ford and I guess they don’t play well with the new car warranty division. Because the oil filter didn’t blow out till after the new car warranty expired ESP is covering it, which I’m guessing is basically Ford internal warranty division, which may be set up like an insurance company.
The owner of the dealership has called Ford Regional office. That’s where we stand now. I’m driving a 97 Mountaineer, as the loaner for the pass three weeks and before that I had a couple Sable demos and a Grand Marquee. I just wish they would let me drive a couple Lincolns. Oh well maybe a month from now.
Now think about it, the dealership tore the engine (oil pump is not in the oil pan but running off the front somewhere and a bear to get to) 2 times at about 16-20 hours per visit @ $50-60 per hour. That’s about $2000. If they were to drop an engine in on the first trip they would have been about $900-1000 ahead. What $800 for a new engine and 8 hours labor. Instead I get to see how ugly, and how non-consumer oriented Ford Motor Company is. Let alone how they treat their dealers and most of all, the substandard quality of their product.
Who would of thought that an oil pump would be blowing oil filters off a car at 24,000 miles.
I’ll let you know what happens.
If tomorrow I see even the smallest oil leak under my car I will cut my losses and get rid of it. Oil leaks point to engine trouble and this means lots of bucks. I realize that for some people is not simple to go and trade their car for another and get into car payments. But the aggravation of having these "technicians" get their paws in my engine and suckered me out of $$$$$$$$$$$$ is just unecceptable.
I got carried away. Don't want to start a controversy here. This is just mi opinion.
ssartori I wish you very good luck!
Fortunately mine only had 28,000 miles on it, and it was replaced within a week. I've got 68k on it now and it's been great since.
Also, you won't get a "new" engine, it will be "remanufactured". This is actually a good thing, because reman engines are spec'd and inspected better than new, or so I've been told by numerous trusted mechanics and engine builders.
They seem to be adequate on dry pavement and good on snow, but it is quite easy to spin the wheels on acceleration on wet pavement. The Duratec and my foot, however, is partly responsible for this.
http://autos.msn.com/vip/heraudprocon.aspx?modelid=10380&src=- - vip
Pros
1. Successful styling
2. Improving overall quality
3. Roomier cabin and trunk
4. Adjustable pedals (SE, SEL)
5. Increased storage space
6. Attractive presentation (SE)
Cons
1. High price, numerous options
2. Mediocre suspension and tires
3. Hindered rear-seat access
4. Mediocre braking without rear discs and ABS
5. Limited 3/4 rear visibility
6. Inefficient headlights
7. Lack of rear-seat headrests
8. Numerous equipment details omitted
I agree about all cons except "high price", "Mediocre suspension" and "Numerous equipment details omitted". Yeah this guy buys car for MSRP I guess.
I strongly disagree with Con 1, unless he is just looking at MSRP, not the great value you get with the dealer discounts and factory rebates. Just try to find 200 Hp minimum V-6 sedan for about $18K-$19K from Toyota, Honda, Nissan, or VW. Even Impala with the 200HP 3.8 pushrod V-6 won't match that price point.
Suspension I find to be just right for a family sedan, taught and well controlled but not punishing on rough roads. Maybe the OEM tires could be better, but this is the case with almost all OEM tires, not just Taurus/Sable.
Cons
1. High price, numerous options
Ridicilous about price, it has nothing to do with reality. There is no numerous options. Japanese have numerous options.
2. Mediocre suspension and tires
Suspension is tight and comfortable enough. Probably he means that it is more simple design than competition, but simple doesn't necessarily mean bad. Actually for simple design it has it is very good.
3. Hindered rear-seat access
Don't know what does it mean. I have no problems.
4. Mediocre braking without rear discs and ABS
That is true if you are making panic stop, but otherwise in every day life it is adequate. About ABS I don't know - never came to point ABS be involved - California is rather dry place.
5. Limited 3/4 rear visibility
That is true - because of thick C-pillars it's a challenge to back the car.
6. Inefficient headlights
Thats true.
7. Lack of rear-seat headrests
Have no problem with it, but that is true too.
8. Numerous equipment details omitted
Don't know what does it mean. Actually there more than enough of equipment and features for that price. It is not luxury car after all and doesn't cost 30 grands like Camry.
One more thing to add - it is hard to find good driving position. Seats are not as comfortable as in Volvo. They have to learn from Volvo instead from Camry. Camry has a similar problem. Nissan is very good in this aspect. There is virtually no lateral support, and lumber support is not designed good.
As for the price the service rep told me that cost of the engine is indeed about $2,500 and change So jtk13 was right if you add in the labor. I guess I was going by the Auto Zone Ads at $849 for an engine. I always have a hard time reading the fine print.
About loyalty, I have to say I will try to buy from this dealer again though our next vehicle will be a mini van and probably will be a Windstar or a GMC Safari. Need it to tow our pop up camper. Just can’t do a Villager. I did hear that Mercury is going to have a Windstar clone this fall but heard it will really be upscale and up priced. Probably like the Windstar SEL. $30,000 – $35,000, would love it if I could afford it. Man a 35,000 mini van Who would of thunk it I really am pleased with the dealership. They went to bat for me and even gave me loaners though out this ordeal. It’s a small dealership with 4 mechanics but it was like working with a friend / family. Maybe that’s why Ford ESP was playing hardball with them. If it were a mega dealership, Ford would have had a lot more to lose. It was great when you can walk into the owner's office ask if he has heard from the regional office yet. But they need to have the product the customer wants and can afford.
So it looks like Ford came through, but very unfortunate that I had to witness the stupidity of an American Company and it’s attitude toward their customer, & their dealer. Something that started almost a year ago and being with out a car for 6 weeks while the dealership and Ford haggled about a repair reimbursement is just POOR business. This has left a bad taste in my mouth even to the point that I asked the owner to dump the Lincoln Mercury franchise and pick up a GM.
I just hope it all goes back together and it works! Oh ya and no oil leaks..
When will Ford realize people get more pissed when the car is broken and won't be covered, as opposed to being broken in the 1st place.
I've had multiple small problems with mine, but to be honest I don't remember half of them. Ya know why? Because the dealership took care of them the 1st time and without making a big deal of it. The crazy thing is that the dealership I went to for warranty work isn't even the place I bought the car new.