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Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005
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Comments
Rented an Intrepid with 12000 miles on it for a business trip. This trip covered part of the same route I took when I noticed a drop in highway mileage (to 25 mpg) on my 98 GP 3.8 SE. Well, the Intrepid got 25 mpg also. So I'm assuming the 25 mpg from my GP is normal but maybe is affected by a regional switch to oxygenated fuel. It also shows the 3.8 is well developed (being almost a 3rd bigger than the 2.7 but still gets the same gas mileage).
On another note...
The standard 2.7 motor on the Intrepid is a wimp compared to the 3.8. This is inspite of having a similar 200 hp rating. The 2.7 response to the gas pedal was econo class performance. The 3.8 obviously has a big torque advantage up through mid range rpms (maybe 50 ft-lbs). Makes sense since torque is a direct function of engine displacement.
At highway cruise, the 2.7 felt the same as the 3.8 in terms of holding speed or accelerating up grades. I guess things have equaled out by then.
This is interesting since the GP and Intrepid are similar cars. However, 2.7 liter Intrepids are dog meat for 3.8 GPs and even my 3.4 liter Alero. I'm gonna look up the specs on the RT Intrepid since they have 250 hp. You GTP owners worried about RT Intrepids?
If I had to buy an Intrepid, it'd definitely be the ES or the RT with the 3.5L engine. Far better torque & hp. I've driven both and they both have plenty of launch power. But the GTP beats either - with more hp & torque far lower down. As for gearing? GTP seems to win there too.
Looks as a really good driver can save 0.5 seconds with manual. The is just a rule of thumb, of course.
The best 0-60 times for stock Regal GS and GP GTP I saw are a bit slower than 6.5 seconds. Something like 6.7 seconds. If the Altima automatic transaxle is as good as GM one, the car probably still will have an edge.
Why not, after all? Altima is year 2001 design, not 1997.5, and is substantially lighter. And Nissan knew how to build fast car, not so long ago.
The time slips from drag strips for stock GTPs are usually between 14.3 and 15.0, usually right around 14.7.
I think the reviewers must be testing either at high altitude and temperature, or using braking torquing or flooring it in drive, both of which will spin the wheels in the GTP. The best way to launch a GTP is usually to accelerate as hard as possible without wheel spin to maybe 10-15MPH than floor it.
You also have to consider street start, and 30-50 and 50-70 times where the GTP and GS truly excel. A 0-60 tun does not favor a FWD automatic car, especially one with a lot of low end torque.
A car with gobs of low end torque will not have its times improved by torque braking, which unrealistic in the real word.
I have have beat many people in stoplight showdowns that try this, or high RPM manual launches. You simply punch as soon as the light turns green, which is usually before they are done reving to launch RPM or popping the clutch/releasing brake. I did have one guy in a manual BMW 325 who actually launched before the light turn green. I still beat him across the intersection.
The GTP and GS also have wide gearing which makes then really shine in the midrange, and even low end with average drivers. A GTP doesn't shift out of first to between 45 and 52 MPH. A driver with short closer gearing may have to shift from N to 1 to 2 to 3 by 60 MPH. Many driver take half a second to get a shift off.
http://www.edmunds.com/used/2000/buick/regal/4drgssprchgdsedan/specs.html?id=lin0066
http://www.edmunds.com/used/2000/pontiac/grandprix/4drgtpsprchgdsedan/specs.html?id=lin0066
The Carpoint data are even worse, 7.5 sec. for GS, and most probably they are wrong.
Otherwise I agree with you: my GS starts great from traffic lights, if I do not try hard. Otherwise it is too easy to spin wheels. And, as you wrote, the reported numbers for manual transmission are hardly acheavable by an average driver.
Am not sure, though, when my GS shifts out of the first gear. Have impression than earlier than at 45 mph.
I forgot to shift to D from 1-st once when entering a road. It was the last summer, on a vacation trip to NH, immediately after descending from the Mt.Washington - on the 1-st, naturally, to brake using engine.
The engine howled and then the gas was cut off at 4000 rpm. It happened very fast. I have impression, the speed did not reach 45 mph than, 40 mph at most.
The car manual prohibit driving at 2-nd gear at speed exceeding 55 mph. However, I have impression that "by itself", in auto mode (at "3" or "D"), the transaxle shifts out of 2-nd on higher speeds when accelerating hard. Even without using the performance mode.
of course the the mass is substantially smaller in the Altima, the Altima will have a chance.
The problems and solution are well known for half-century. Difference in torque can be mostly eliminated by selecting right gear ratios. Low-rev engines always win starting from full stop, 0-5 or 0-10; it is important in city driving, but mostly irrelevant on rural roads and highways.
It is easier (read less expensive) to manufacture a durable low-rev engine; on the other hand, low-displacement engine weight less.
The main difference is in taxes and custom duties. Many countries, probably most of countries, collect either car taxes, or custom duties, or the both based on displacement. And the taxes are really high, something like 20% to 100% and even 200% of the manufacturer's price. High-rev, low-displacement engines win hand down in this department.
So, global car manufacturers are forced to use low-displacement engines. Only American companies have for time being the option to ignore this aspect with cars produced for domestic market and some smaller markets like Sadis Arabia or Australia. And, with the cost of developing a new engine exceeding several billions dollars, even this option is wanishing.
I tried searching this board for info to my questions but I am not fond of Edmunds search engine so forgive me if this has been previously covered.
I have a 2000 GP GT with 15K miles.
1. After changing the oil at 15K, I was looking for any fittings to grease under the car but could not find any. Is this correct? I am used to working on my truck which has about 10 fittings to grease.
2. I am pretty sure this vehicle has a cabin air filter but I have not attempted to locate it yet. Anyone know where they hide this thing and can I get a replacement at the auto parts store?
3. Was changing the air filter along with the oil change and thought I had better replace PCV valve. Looked up the number and the Walmart computer and bought it. I took the plastic cover off the engine and looked all around the valve covers but could not find a PCV valve. Was I had by the Walmart computer???
Thanks for the help
Thanks,
kdstan
My GP has the Bose stereo option and after driving the car for a couple of days I noticed that the engine ignition system produces a high pitch noise on the stereo that changes frequency with the engine RPMs. I know it is the stereo or amp because the noise goes away when I turn off the stereo. I can only hear the noise when the volume is low.
Does anybody out there know how to fix this problem? Any help would be appreciated. Please also send email to tmhattrick@yahoo.com
Thanks,
Tim
Ken
My goal each Christmas is to get all my presents bought before Thanksgiving. Not quite there yet.
Did anyone hear on the news something about have a week long period where we don't have to pay sales tax to spur shopping? That would certainly be a good time to buy a new car--if it would include cars. I can't remember if that was just statewide or nationwide. Or if I misheard the news.
Haven't heard of any sales tax moratorim anywhere nearby in the Northeast. I do know that NYC generally has a one week deal to entice tourists into the city sometime in Feb. With the size of NYC hotel and meals taxes that's a pretty good incentive.
Take care
Ken
http://murray.senate.gov/taxholiday.html
http://www.senate.gov/~snowe/sth.htm
http://www.ce.org/public_policy/tax_freedom_week.asp
One dealer told me it may get moved to Dec. 1st.
I am in Wisconsin, however, and the governor's office claims "it's sort of a dead issue".
Sen murray's office tells me it's up for consideration soon.
Follow the 3rd link and voice your support!
My parents have been planning on buying a new minivan and they could save a good bit of money--if it goes through in Louisiana.
Many people enjoy the hustle and bustle of shopping right before Christmas. It gets them into the Christmas mood--it just gets me into a bad mood.
Ken
I apologize if this has been discussed already. I will search the board for more info but if anyone could tell me a post number...
thanks.
I swapped mine with 3.5". Power increase is very significant! The claim is about 30hp, but I would guess something like 20hp is more realistic. I've also changed out the exhaust and cold air induction system to help it breath. The Cold air induction is almost a must if you do a smaller pulley on your engine. You'll also hear the blower "whine" much more if you do this, but it's music to my ears.
As far as the pulley size, 3.4 to 3.5" is pretty safe bet. Go any smaller, and you'd better have other mods to compensate (e.g. headers).
Anyways, hope this bit helps.
As I mentioned before, I plan to keep this car forever. In light of that, I would be interested in picking up a few items for future use -- e.g., an extra set of 40th anniversary floor mats for when these wear out, etc. My local dealer says that it can't be done. I can't find anything online. Anyone have an idea?
I'm new to this message board. Considering that I am really gaining informative knowledge with the kinds of reviews and postings in here, I would like to ask everyone for some advice.
Basically, I am currently seeking the purchase of a new car and have had two main ones in mind. One is the 2002 Grand Prix GTP coupe (auto). The other is the 2002 Jetta GLS 1.8t (5A).
I possess the kind of personality who like cars that are fun to drive. I currently have a 2001 Honda Civic Si and find it boring to drive.
FYI, I tend to sometimes have a heavy foot and may like to drive cars "hard" at times (i.e. not necessary rough, but you can say, "push the car").
Any suggestions? Does the cars outlined above suit my personality? If not, can you please suggest one?
They are very different vehicles and don't compare well by just looking at the specs. They will have very different character. Keep in mind that the Grand Prix's 3.8 motor has really good torque that translates into instant response. I'll venture to say that the Jetta's turbo 1.8 needs to be rev'd up for it to come alive. Us Grand Prix owners are obviously biased to the big torque method of performance.
I'll also venture to say that you might be initially intimidated by the Grand Prix size. Compared to the Civic, the GP is huge and you may not feel comfortable with it during a test drive. But believe us, Grand Prixs with the 3.8 motor and ESPECIALLY the GTPs are go-fast cars.
Look out if the car you test drive has Goodyear Eagle LS tires. They are kind of mediocre and detract from the GPs handling.
Go for the Grand Prix! I had one and loved it, but got bit by the fever for a new Jeep Wrangler.
Hi to all my old buddies here. I still have my Jeep and still love it, but I definitely miss the best car I ever owned, that sweet little 2000 Grand Prix GT.
tsjay (tom)
Plus, you can put in a lot of usefull mods to boost performance if you need to.
"Pontiac. From the "Not Good" Department comes word that the '03 Grand Prix is looming to be a major disappointment. Our spies tell us that it looks like either a bloated Grand Am or an anemic Bonneville, take your pick - with an exaggerated "beak" on the front end that veers wildly toward being butt-ugly. Paging Maximum Bob... "
Dear me, Wayne Cherry strikes again. When will GM learn??
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
The damn thing looked quite ugly.
:^/
:^P
Do you know if its picture is still out there somewhere in the Net?
TIA
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6