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Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005

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  • orwoodyorwoody Posts: 269
    I also saw the Fusion orange today while having an oil change on my Yukon. It looked pretty good. Like richm4 it's not the color I would choose first, but I think Pontiac will sell a few. I saw an 04 Maxima in their orange and I think the GP looks better in orange.
    I also re-sat in the back seat again. I think its not great but a bit better than previous generation(I've owned a 2000 GTP and currently have a 2003 GT) Its definitely not a seat for long distance travel unless you're a kid.
    I think the 2004 is quite a step up from the 1997-2003, but there are still a few things that don't appeal to my tastes. Not to say Pontiac won't make some updates/changes over the next few years.
  • 04gtpws604gtpws6 Posts: 12
    I've been lurking around these forums for years because I've been to lazy to register, and I hate an assigned password that I can never remember.

    I thought maybe I'd better say something because it looks like I'm the only one with a 2004 grand prix (GTP-WS6 in sport red metallic. I bought the very first one that came in to my dealer, and I've had the car for almost two months now. There was a day when I'd wait for a couple of years after a model change before I'd buy a new GM car. I've had such good luck with the last several GM cars that got brazen enough to buy one built in the second week of production.

    The lows: 1) Hard low back seat bottom 2) amazingly firm ride, not harsh, but very very firm 3) Faux coupe styling makes it hard to see out the rear quarter

    The highs: 1) As the magazines all say, virtually zero torque steer 2) Vibrationless engine at idle 3) Good firm supportive front seats 4) Less wind noise than any car I've owned 5) strong low end torque 6) can't hear the supercharger at all 7) excellent fit and finish 8) pretty decent interior quality for a GM car 9) No niggling little GM new car problems.

    My 2004 is replacing a 2000 Deville DTS and will be used primary as a work car. I'll also do some drag racing with like I do all my cars. I got this car because my lease was up on my DTS and I couldn't wait until the CTSv was available or even the 04 CTS with the new 3.6L. I wasn't about to get another Deville because I could get DTS exactly like the one I have now, and that's no fun. I will not, under any circumstances, buy Japanese and I've heard plenty from everyone I know that has/had a VW Passat. In fact a neighbor bought a 2003 Passat the same weekend I bought the GP, and hers has been back at the dealer for problems 4 times now and mine has never been back. I didn't really see all that much else in the $30,000 range I'd buy. I still don't have the interior material quality that one would have with the Passat, but the 2004 is a big improvement over the old GPs. The 2004 is obviously built to a price point as everything is, but the compromises are acceptable to me. Pontiac got a lot of details right with this car. So far so good.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    Congratulations on your GP! And thanks for that very informative post!

    From a Deville DTS to a GP! Wow.
  • ruskiruski Posts: 1,566
    what good is a great interior if the car spends a lot of time at the shop? :)
  • 04gtpws604gtpws6 Posts: 12
    I've had a 93 STS, 95 STS, 97 Cooncours and the 2000 DTS so that's enough for right now. I currently have the 04 grand prix, 63 grand prix, and a C5 vert so I do have a decent variety. I decided, first, that I don't want a new one just like the one I'm getting rid of, and secondly, I want to put my money into collectables such as a 61 Pontiac Ventura 389 tri-power bubble top and maybe a 65 Riviera GS. GM made so much junk in the late 70s and 80s that we forget just how nice the early and mid 60s GM full size cars were. I want to own a few again. However, it is my completely restored 63 grand prix http://hometown.aol.com/scotth3886/myhomepage/personal.html and http://hometown.aol.com/scotth3886/index.html that made me think of a new one. GM's support of the old car hobby paid dividends.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    I would consider it but I know my conservative wife would veto that choice so we would have to go with a "normal" color.

    04gtpws6 : Congrats on the new GP. Great pictures!!
  • 04gtpws604gtpws6 Posts: 12
    Thanks! I need to get a digital camera so I can post some decent pics. The second link's photos were done by the same photographer that did the 350Z ad and we are in the same location down in the LA harbor. So forgive the artsy fartsy appearance.

    Had the fusion orange been the first color that came in I would have done it. I've seen one that color and it works quite well on this car
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    04GTPWS6, what kind of drag racing? A pulley will add 30-40 horse alone on the '97-03 geneartion GTP. Not sure on the mods for the Series 3 3800 yet, though probably similar. My 2002 is tuned to around 300 horse and the 1/4 in the low 14's. Yeah, my modded 2002 GTP has LESS Torque steer then the STOCK Maxima/I35/V6 Altima, which if you ever drove them, have HORRENDOUS torque steer almost to the point of being dangerous in certain driving situations... IE wet pavement.

     Thanks to FWD I can still drive in the snow and pay 20% less insurance then Mustang/Transam owners. Yes, the '04 is more refined, with better seats, but NO COUPE? that kills it on my list. The 2 door GTP looked more stylish then the 4 door, my opinion . The coupe was 20% of the Grand Prix sales, doesn't make sense..

     I've heard that the 2004 GP and Max aren't selling that well, mabye the resession? The Max is too much $$, $32k loaded for a Nissan, when one can buy a Infiniti for the same price range with a longer warranty and free loaner cars. To each their own.

    I am also leary of first year GM cars, I had a 1995 aurora and 1997 GTP... they were problematic. My 2002 has been the first GM in a while that has been TROUBLE FREE, knock on wood in my 9 month now.

    Historically, especially on the 1997-2003 GP, the 2nd or 3rd year GM corrects problems, IE condensation in the headlights, water on the passenger front, windshield wiper motors, NO Traction control, noisy Delco ABS system that was loud in 1997 etc.. stuff that plagued the 1997 GTP, including mine. For 1998 GM utiilzed BOSCH for the ABS/Traction and it became quieter more refined, that was a big improvement.. the ABS in my 1997 sounded like a system from the early '90's loud and intrusive. The Best radio in the 1997 was garbage as well. Thats why I will never buy a 1st year GM car again.

    Besides with NO more GTP coupe that means I will never be buying another one. I will have to look at other 2 door Powerfull/Roomy FWD coupes for 2006. if any exist. None that I know of, except the UGLY Monte SS. Rumor has it GM may cancel that if sales don't pick up as well. Besides the Monte is too ugly for me.. GTP coupe looked way better.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    The 97 had very few issues and that was 5-6 years ago. The new GP is built in the best plant in NA so I personally would have no problem buying one out of the gate.
  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 1,922
    Don't confuse the GM that built cars like the '63 GP with today's GM. They share only one thing - the name. GM no longer cares about making cars, just about making money. The soul and passion for style and performance is long dead. Instead we have atrocities like the Aztek and interiors like the '04 GP with uglycloth (TM Regd.). GM used to know how to build great cars, but no one there now remembers that.

    2011 Buick Regal Turbo, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    If you knew anyone who worked at a car plant (any maker) you would understand how incredibly passionate they are about the cars they build. Living out east, I'm sure you haven't got a clue though.
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    I think GM is passionate about reviving itself. They made alot of mistakes in the 90's with Pontiac(especaially), Cadillac, and Buick. i mean the 60's were a different time. How can you compare 2003 to 1963 in the car market? There's alot more saturation now. I'm no big fan of GM but I graduated High School in 1998 and GM's cars had no personality to them at that time. Finally, GM is doing something with Cadillac and looks like something with Pontiac too now. Buick needs to go. I remember when I was growing up in the 80's there was still alot of GM cars on the road. Somewhere around 1992-1993 is when things to started to change. Gm made alot bad product decisions in the early 90's and drove people away. The 80's were decent for GM. The 90's were not good at all for GM.
  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 1,922
    I'm not talking about the guys on the line that assemble them. I've been to GM plants and know what they're all about, the good and the bad. I'm talking about the management, the designers, the engineers, and especially the bean counters. The ones who have destroyed GM.

    2011 Buick Regal Turbo, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • ruskiruski Posts: 1,566
    this one too complains about the [non-existing] cladding in the previous version of Grand Prix. These journalists are so stupid.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    although the cladding on the 97-03 GP was minimal, it was still cladding. You can say it was cladding because it wasn't just ground efx panel below the door, it was actual plastic cladding applied to the door as well.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Posts: 1,203
    That's a pretty neat sampling of cars you have(or have had). Must be interesting going from a DTS to a GTP, but if I guess that also says something about the new GP. I'm still leaning toward an 04 CTS with the 3.6 liter engine, but haven't ruled the GP out completely. Did you lease your GP? If so, when your lease is up in a few years and if your ready to move back up to a Cadillac, the next generation STS should be out. I'm looking forward to seeing what it will offer.

    carguy58, from a quality standpoint the 80s were worse than the 90s for GM. The problem in the early 90s was very bland and outdated product offering. I remember in the 91-92 time frame when alot of GM's big sellers were redesigned(i.e. Park Avenue, LeSabre, Ninety-Eight, Eighty-Eight, Bonneville, Caprice, Achieva, etc.) thinking that if I were buying one of those type of cars, I'd rather own the previous generation because the new ones just weren't very appealing.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    ruski/reg : There was no cladding on the GP that isn't on almost any other midsize car. Thin plastic strips are not cladding.

    ab348 : So Bob Lutz isn't passionate about cars? The guys who designed the Corvette or the CTS aren't passionate about cars? Give me a break! Using a blanket statement like that is just plain wrong! You may not like a the GP but it performs and you can't deny that.

    oldsman : I think GM definitely lost it's way in the past but the last 5 years have changed my mind about the company. I just hope it stays that way.
  • I too believe the 80's were the worst for GM. It actually started in the late 1970's. My wife had a 1977 Buick Century, which was a full-size car, powered by a down-sized 6 cylinder engine. It was a terrible car. Various family members also had 1980's Chevy Citation and the Pontiac version also. These were just plain bad cars.

    I think GM started getting its act together in the mid 90's and has continued to gather steam. I bought a Chevy Avalanche 15 months ago and it hasn't had a single problem except for a little bit of moisture in a fog light. The truck is just amazing.

    I have a 99 Grand Am GT. This car has had a few minor problems (mostly interior), fixed under warranty. I'm hoping my new Grand Prix GT2 has fewer problems.

    Believe it or not, it was my wife who insisted I get the fusion orange color. She was not happy with the sport red - too burgundy for her. So I had to order my car because there were none around on dealer's lots with the options I wanted.

    3 weeks and counting.....
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    <<<The 97 had very few issues and that was 5-6 years ago.>>>

    Dindak, Says who? My 1997 had many problems, but I still loved it anyway and thankgod they were mostly covered under warranty !! not to mention that the 1997 GP is on consumer reports used car list to avoid, the only model listed. Go to www.grandprix.net and click Grand Prix problems. These are problems reported on by owners of 1997-1999 Grand Prixs and many of those problems were FIXED for later year Grand Prixs... This is a pretty large list of problems. I can attest to them, I had alot. But GM did fix them for later year models.

    On my 1997 GTP Coupe....Tire Rods went bad at 25k miles, never happened again, alternator and water pump replaced before 30k miles, one of the tire/abs sensors fell off, had to argue to get it covered under warranty. Vibration when the car was in reverse os sometimes idling. the brake line was too close to the firewall? Both headlights replaced due to moisture in them, heat shield on the catalytic converter loose, rattling, pistons that hold up the trunk went bad at only 1 yr old, automatic twinight headlights on/off sensor replaced 3x before they got it right, they would come on and off in bright daylight. Loose clips on interior door panels, rattling sounds.. apparently this is a problem of all '97'03 GP's, Oil leak at 50k miles, valve cover gaskets went bad, covered by ext. warranty, A/C Drain had to be unclogged once a year, otherwise leaked into the car, various times repairing rattles.. the W body of 1997-2003 is a RATTLE BOX compared to comparable import cars, AC Delco battery only lasted 2 yrs...

    Otherwise I like the car and bought another in 2002. So far, knock on wood, troublefree.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    The most reliable GM car I ever owned was my 1986 Olds 442. Bought new in 1986, I sold it in 2000 with 106k miles. It only had 3 problems in 14 yrs.. A/C leak, new exhaust and oil leaks from the valve cover gaskets which was a 307 V8 issue, when I sold it in 2000 every option including A/C worked. The original paint was still in great shape, not bad for a 1986. You either a get a good car or bad one.. it's like rolling dice with GM.

    The worst one I ever bought was a 1985 Olds Ciera with the optional 3.8L V6 that yr, many problems.. engine would accelerate/rev by itself in gear sometimes with the A/C on, talke about dangerous.. the notorious bad/peeling paint. unloaded it in 1992.
  • dan165dan165 Posts: 653
    Midlfe, Congratulations on the coming 04 GP. Let us know when you get it. 80's were bad, we had 2 Accords in that time and I wouldn't consider GM back then.

    ab348, How the seats in the 04 GP equate to a lack of soul, performance and passion I will never understand??

    Gunit, Our 02 Bravada has been very good although it had 2 recall visits which I did with oil changes. Otherwise trouble free. GP is trouble free now for it's first couple of months. So far so good.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Posts: 1,203
    My father had an 84 Pontiac 6000 which was an ABSOLUTE piece of junk. After that car, he swore GM off. Or at least until I convinced him to test drive a 96 Aurora nearly a decade later. Heck, after the 6000 he started buying Chryslers so you know it had to be a bad car. Anything and everything went wrong on that car. I've had a little better luck with older GM cars. Prior to the Intrigue, I had an 89 Olds Touring Sedan(sporty version of the Ninety-Eight) which I bought used from someone my father worked with. Despite being a product of the 80s and having nearly every electronic feature possible then, it was a pretty trouble free car. Drove it through the latter part of my college years and put it had well over 100K on it when I got the Intrigue. The series I 3800 V6 never used a drop of oil, never leaked a drop of coolant, and never failed to start(except when the battery lost a cell). The car had some squeaks and rattles by the time I traded it, but then again it was 12 years old. Mechanically it was old shcool(rear drum brakes, OHV engine, 4 speed non-electronically controlled transmission) but was not a bad car. My feeling has been that prior to the 97 W-bodies and 99 Alero and Grand Am, the only thing GM had that was any good were their large and thus higher end offerings. Simply put, prior to the Intrigue(or the 97 and up GP) I would not have considered a GM car in this class.
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    Probably 1996-1997. I thought 1991-1995 were really bad years for GM. GM had did score hits in the 80's with the 88 Grand Prix, 6000, and mid 80's Grand AM. The 92 Grand AM and 92 Boneville were not styled very well and turned off buyers. Mid 80's-early 90's Boneville looked very compact on the exterior.
  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 1,922
    Gunit, you have to remember that according to some here GM has never made a car that was less than perfect.

    Dan, nobody who worked for GM in the 60s would let uglycloth (TM Regd) *near* any of their cars. Now according to Lutz it is "richer" fabric than what went before. Excuse me if I question whether the man's much-vaunted image actually has any substance after a comment like that.

    2011 Buick Regal Turbo, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Dan165, My 2002 GTP coupe has been PERFECT & Troublefree, knock on wood since buying it NEW in September '02. Not even a squeak or rattle, YET. I just hit the 7k mile mark. I'm hoping for the best.

    AB348, Although GM has improved... Squeaks and rattles still plague the W body of 1997 and on, more so then the import competition. I'm sure it's only a matter of time before they surface in my 2002 GTP. I will hope for the best though.

    The best GM rattle and squeak free car I even owned was my 1995 aurora which even in 2001 was squeak/rattle free... i think it used the same platform of the caddilacs? Right now the best rattle/squeak free car I have had is my 2001 Infiniti I30t

     The oil burning issue really burned me on that car. 2 quarts a month. someone has told me that the early Aurora and Caddy Northstar V8's burned oil at higher mileage? something to do with the limp home feature if you ran out of coolant? But supposedly the oil burnign was fixed by 1998? I wonder if any one can shed any light on that topic?
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    Your Cutlass was RWD which makes a difference in
    durability. Plus that car had a larger rearend than even the camaros of that era.
    I have a friend who put 380,000 miles on their RWD cutlass.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    b4z, I have heard that before, but, How does RWD make a difference in durability? I have friends with Honda Accord & Toyota Camry & Honda Civic FWD cars that have gone 200K plus trouble free miles too. In fact my neighbor has a 1993 camry with 140k miles , never seen a repair shop for other then maintenance. Still sounds/looks good. No smoke.

    That said, today's FWD cars probably last just as long as the RWD cars in regular driving..
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    You said "GM no longer cares about making cars, just about making money. The soul and passion for style and performance is long dead".

    I think Dan is right on. Performance and styling are right on with the 04 even if the seats don't suit you. Your statement is off base. There is so much raw performance that one could argue they didn't spend enough time on the details, but GP performance on it's own is better than ever and much of it's competition for that matter.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    We have a 3 1/2 yr old Intrigue (also a W) and it's completely rattle free. Very well screwed together though the fit and finish is not quite up to Honda/Toyota over all. I suspect the 04 GP would be similar and from what I've seen the fit and finish is definitely better on the 04 GP than any previous W.
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