Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005

dindak · November 2003

"Because trucks are heavier and generally have poor aerodynamics, the gain from a hybrid powertrain is less than a similar switch in a car".

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- - _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=04424028

midlifecrisis · November 2003

...the GTO is B O R I N G looking?? Sure the interior is nice, but for $33K base I want some pizazz. One article I wrote stated that Pontiac made the exterior bland on purpose, so that they didn't think they were ripping off the original GTO. If you simulated the original GTO, maybe I would actually buy one! Hello Pontiac - did you see what Ford is doing with the new Mustang - they're ripping off the 1960's look. And it will likely sell well you idiots!

Thanks, but I'll keep my American made 04 Grand Prix GT2 that I paid only about $20K for with all the incentives.

dindak · November 2003

What's with all the GTO trashing? I think it's a pretty nice looking car and the performance numbers are very good. It's not suppose to be a daily driver sedan, it's a specialty limited edition type car. Just be thankful you get it down there, the car will never make it north of the border.

:-(

dindak · November 2003

I'm not wrong. I'll bet less than 50% of buyers will drive their GTO's on a regular basis as a main car. Even if they do, the car is still not main stream, it's a niche product and it's attraction is likely with a mainly older crowd looking for a blast from the past.

regfootball · November 2003

the GTO is a market stopgap for Pontiac. Be thankful that Lutz in one instance was able to do soemthing to live up to his ridiculous hype. TransAm went byebye and rightfully so. Good riddance to that POS. GP coupe was deemed not feasible numbers wise. Pontiac fans have been screaming for a real decent RWD coupe. No $$$$ to develop one from scratch. Holden Monaro is sitting there. Excellent car. GM fans ought to consider themsleves lucky they have this car available to them. Realize this is a '98 vintage design and get over it. Its a good blank canvas for personalizing with special body kits and stuff to make it look like your own unique car. You want the 350hp and v8 RWD or not? Shut up and deal with it. Its the best GM interior out there. Sunroof a bad omission but likely not offered for some reason having to do with money. American Sunroof Corporation will gladly put one in for you and warrant it. GM had to spend a lot of bucks to re-engineer the location of the gas tank just to bring this car over.

As for Aussie built cars my two Diamantes have been as reliable as my Toyota Prizm was. I won't claim they are fabulous autos, just merely that its not the flying parts machine someone else suggested (hi harry!). It does a good Camry imitation as far as holding up. All the homers need to accept that other countries can build a solid car.

GM should bring over the Holden Caprice and sell it here as the Chevy Caprice. Watch the register $$$$$$. That car has a nice interior as well. Or maybe a real upscale Buick......

low thirties is not an outrageous price for the GTO considering how much the 350z, and g35 are. Whats outrageous is a Bonneville with a sticker approaching 40k, or a GTP thats around 31k. Compared to that, a 33k GTO is a bargain.

A GP GTP coupe may have been a good price, but it doesn't have the more complete package of the nicer RWD GTO.

vcjumper · November 2003

will be a much more livable car for day to day commuting than the old F-bodies for sure. If I was lucky enough to have one, I'd also have a sub $10K winter beater, like my Intrigue.

dindak · November 2003

My brother in law had a Firebird, didn't drive it in the winter at all and even in the summer he drove his truck quite a bit. GTO will indeed be better, but I still wouldn't drive it in the snow much. Keep in mind, there are no icy roads in the land down under.

regfootball · November 2003

in the snow belt RWD cars DO NOT SELL. trust me, i got a super deal on my tbird back in 95 and couldn't figure why. Then the snow hit. Then I watched the resale values of RWD cars here. (MN) Nada.

Fortunately blizzaks made me able to still USE the car.

traction control and abs don't help much. weight dist. and snow tires are the key.

In the snow states people AVOID RWD if possible. That's partly why the GP was so successful. A sporty car that can go through snow. Its also why cars like the Maxima, 9-3 and TSX/TL will have a solid fan base.

Harry why did you find my factual post ridiculous. BTW, if you see Lutz, tell him hi and let him know I'd gladly have lunch with him and ask him why the new Malibu doesn't dethrone the Camry and Accord. Tell him thanks for the GTO, though and tell him to bring the Caprice over. The cops would love it too. Tell him I've really enjoyed my last 3 Fords because they have had excellent OHC powertrains in them. Tell him yeah the GTP was great but they shoulda had a supercharged Shortstar in there. Tell him the pushrod G6 is a huge mistake. Ask him why the SSR is such a bloated pig. Ask why the COlorado has no 6 cylinder. Ask him why the Ion turned out like it did. Tell him its great the Bonneville has been partially fixed with the new 8 cylinder, Aurora seats and cleaned up look, but the interior needs an overhaul pronto. Oh, and the pricetag is way too high. I'd be happy to have a drink with him and ask him why GM North America can't seem to put decent looking plastic in its cars. Maybe he can convince me some reasons to get excited about the GP. Thank him for the 9-3 and et him know the 9-7 isn't gonna work out. Saabists won't think it pure.

No one who can own a cool car like GTO is gonna expose it to a lot of road salt or risk accident in icy conditions. Harry how much ICE and SNOW or blinding blizzards have you driven in? Just curious.....only takes one bad snow day to sell you FWD.

johnclineii · November 2003

I think I am going to go take a powder and go back to bed. Regfootball is making eminent sense.

User does best not to faint!

dindak · November 2003

Given the small numbers of GTOs, even if it doesn't sell well it's more likely to become a collector car than anything if it's off the market in a few years. I suspect it will sell ok, after all it's a niche car. GM has invested virtually nothing in building it, it really a no loose situation for them.

I see in the paper today they are now advertising GT1s with ABS and alloys for a little over C$24K cash (U$17K). Not a bad deal at all.

regfootball · November 2003

"Typical of aussie vehicles, the GTO will have a horrible reliability record"

from carpoint

"The Mitsubishi Diamante holds the distinction of being the only new car sold in America that is built in Australia."

of course now a bit dated since the GTO is here but note the Diamante scores a 5 of 5 in reliability for all its model years. Not sure Harry, how you can make a broad claim because a car is aussie its a bucket of bolts. Because there's been until now one aussie car here and its held up pretty well.

pat · November 2003

The subject is supposed to be the Grand Prix, folks ...

We've been all over the place for quite some time now.

dindak · November 2003

90% of people in the U.S. don't have to deal with regular snow? Ya right.. Even the north east by itself makes up more than 10%.

Let us know how the show visit goes. Maybe they will have a Maxx you can sit in.

regfootball · November 2003

in Canada there's snow all over. I bet FWD is huge there.

dan165 · November 2003

Wpbharry, Apparently the GTO is not coming to Canada so it must be real bad in the snow.

Regfootball, Yes FWD and AWD is king here. That said, I see a lot of RWD drive cars these days so obviously some people don't care. Should be interesting to see how the GP does in the snow this winter.

sonnyb3 · November 2003

Does anyone have any 2004 pics of their own Grand Prix to post. Love to see it....

regfootball · November 2003

new GP's advertsied at 17995 this past wkd.

evandro · November 2003

Bu???

midlifecrisis · November 2003

...in the 04 Grand Prix sucks rocks. I use it sparingly, and usually only for my kids.

montanafan · November 2003

midlife-First or Second generation back seat?

dan165 · November 2003

No digital camera, sorry. Imagine a deep red!

(joking)

midlifecrisis · November 2003

I have the first generation back seat. But the thing I don't like about it is the poor leg room and the lack of cupholders, which hasn't been fixed in the newer generation seats.

The leg room issue is compounded by the fact that the passenger seat has a thick hard plastic back on it, which digs into the knees of the back seat passenger.

On a positive note, I used the near-90 degree opening back doors to get a TV in the back seat the other day. That does work as advertised!

dindak · November 2003

Some one in my office building just bought a new gold 04 GT. It's been parked in the same row as my car for the past 3 days. Look of the car is just stellar compared with all the Camcords in the lot.

Anyone know how sales of the 04 are going vs last year?

midlifecrisis · November 2003

"Look of the car is just stellar compared with all the Camcords in the lot."

You hit the nail on the head! I'd rather have my GP in my driveway than the Accord in my neighbor's driveway, even if it has better resale!

timmmm · November 2003

I've had my GT2 for a month now and I like it better then when I was first shopping it. I realize its not as "refined" as the Nissan products but refinement is overrated especially living in the Midwest( Minnesota winters ). The sticker on mine was just a tick under 27K and I paid only 19,251 after rebates, gm card discount, dealer discount etc. I'll gladly drive the GP when you can pick em up this cheap. Has anyone check their speedo and odometer? Mine is reading 3% high. Is this GM's sneaky way of getting me into another GP soon? OK by me!

gunit · November 2003

My 2002 Modified GTP coupe does very well in the snow for a car with 300+ horsepower. I didn't get stuck in the 18+ inches of snow we had on February 17th in the New York City area, worst storm since the blizzard of Jan 1996 here. I saw plenty of BMW/Mercedes & the rear drive Lexus owners getting stuck or having a hard time of get going. 3 of the cars I saw get stuck happened on a hill near my house, Lexus 430/mercedes and BMW 530, got stuck on the hill. where as my much cheaper 300+hp GTP barely spun it's wheels going up the hill. Made me laugh.

These people buy these expensive $40k+ rear drive cars which are useless in snow...

I got stuck behind a CLK320 which was doing 10mph in a 35 zone, couldn't go any faster.. if he tried, he was all over the road... when I got a chance I went right around him, in my much cheaper fwd car.

gunit · November 2003

Midlifecrisis, how far are you putting the front seats back??

I had a 1997 GTP coupe and now 2002 GTP coupe and the back seat legroom is very good, especially for a coupe!! The roomiest coupe backseat I have ever sat in. I'm almost 5'11 in height and I have about 2 to 3 inches before my knees hit the seat. In the coupe it can be hard to get in an out esp. if you are elderly or overweight.

Remember the coupe had more backseat legroom then the sedan!! Coupe was 36.1 inches, sedan was 35.8 inches for REAR LEGROOM. Go figure?? how did GM do that one??

BTW.. the Grand PRix of 1997-2003 had backseat cupholders they were built into the armrest in the center. They did stink though.. not that sturdy or great

gunit · November 2003

The great thing about the coupe was that it stood out even more in a parking lot or on the road. Only 20% of GP's were coupes on avg from 1997-2002, More exclusitivity. I barely see any coupes, mostly sedans everywhere in the '97 to '02 generation. Even better it was the same exact size as the sedan, unlike the Accord where the coupe is noticeably smaller then the sedan!

gunit · November 2003

Someone had mentioned about the Pushrod motors not revving high. The 3800 L67 in my 2002 GTP revs to 6000rpm on the 1st to 2nd shift, mine is modified with reprogrammed PCM. I think normally it will shift at 5500rpm.

My 6000rpm is almost the same as the DOHC in the Max. Theirs is either 6000 or 6500. Big deal...

ruski · November 2003

I used to live on a hill in Yonkers, and every winter there would be some poor (I mean rich) guy in a Lexus getting stuck at the bottom. Once I even offered to help one of these Lexus guys by offering a ride up the hill, but he declined.

evandro · November 2003

The issue is not exactly the pushrods, but only 2 valves per cylinder. At high RPM, the pumping efficiency decreases fairly quickly, when more valves would help. Yet, at the cost of lower combustion efficiency at lower RPM. That's why variable cam phasing is a multi-valve engine's best friend, improving the low-end torque and promoting a flatter torque curve.

I'm curious about the 3 valves per cylinder pushrods that GM will be launching next year. However, there's an overly complex lever mechanism to actuate the exhaust valve on the far side. I wonder why it had to be so when the 426 Hemi had angled valves with simple pushrods...

midlifecrisis · November 2003

I was at a family reunion last weekend and my cousin's husband works as a mechanic at a Dodge dealer. He says the Hemi engine trucks are pieces of garbage that get really bad gas mileage and poor reliability.

evandro · November 2003

Current day 5.7 Hemi have nothing to do with yore's 7.0 Hemi. It doesn't even have hemispherical combustion chambers that gave the original Hemi its name...

midlifecrisis · November 2003

Then how or why do they call it a HEMI??

evandro · November 2003

A newfangled concept called marketing;... :-)

Yes, the original 426 V8 Hemi had pushrods, 2 valves per cylinder forming a V, hemispherical combustion chambers and bulged pistons. It produced North of 400HP then.

dindak · November 2003

Every Chrysler ad I have seen in the last 3 weeks seems to have something in it about the "Hemi". It's great marketing though, lots of people remember the name.

Same reason names like the Malibu and Impala were brought back.

midlifecrisis · November 2003

NASCAR had to eventually outlaw the hemi that was helping Richard Petty dominate the circuit in the late 60's. That's how good it was!

dindak · November 2003

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=carboard&loc_code=index&content_code=07380316

oogilieorang04 · November 2003

The Autoweek guys really take it out on the HUD (amongst other things). I think it's about the coolest feature on the car (it was part of the reason I traded-in my 2 year old Monte Carlo for a 97 GTP). The TAPshift is great too but I guess I have the long bony thumbs for it unlike our poor reviewers. Oh well, can't please everyone!

orwoody · November 2003

I had the HUD on my 2000 GTP and it ran neck to neck with the enhanced traction control as my 2nd favorite feature. (supercharged 3800 was first.) After I traded it I missed the HUD for a long time.

evandro · November 2003

That journalist is full of it... Just wait and see the same guy write wonders about HUD in the BMW in a few months. I've seen this kind of nonsense too many times...

Corvette owners, for instance, consider HUD indispensable to avoid tickets, one thing the GTP owners probably agree with. ;-)

rodney12 · November 2003

I love it, especially at night in stealth mode (instrument lights off)... I'd have to agree it's a top 5 favorite aspect of the car. The supercharged 3800, the agressive styling, the aggressive styling, and Onstar are up there as well. Now just give us a NAV system???

midlifecrisis · November 2003

I had several cars on the shortlist when looking for a new one. The HUD on the GP put it over the top. I HAD to have the HUD, and I've loved it ever since. At first my wife said it was a distraction. Now she even loves the HUD when she drives my car (which isn't very often since I'm always in it!).

midlifecrisis · November 2003

"Finally, for a large midsizer, the interior is cramped—especially in the back seat where even my eight-year-old complained about lack of room."

johnclineii · November 2003

..and that, my friends, is why I am STILL driving my 142,000 mile 2000 Impala LS. I simply MUST have a comfortable back seat in any vehicle I purchase. Now getting ready to look at the Mazda6 wagon.

If it had not been for the GTP's back seat, Lutz might have made me a sale!

dindak · November 2003

Have you seen the new and improved seats?

johnclineii · November 2003

Yes. And sat in them. The seats are improved. The room is no different... Also, it sure would be nice to be able to get the automatic climate control that my 98 GTP had. The Mazda6 has it on the 6 cylinders, the Pontiac GP doesn't at any price.

So, it will probably be the Mazda6 wagon or hatch for me. I would have rather had the Pontiac GP, but I MUST have a rear seat suitable for business passengers.

I might also like the Ford 500, but there is NO way I can wait that long...

midlifecrisis · November 2003

So you're not going for a new Impala?

dindak · November 2003

No way I see Mazda 6 hatch having the same room your Impala does unless the seats can be pushed back like in the Maxx.

pontiacbuyer · November 2003

I have an 04 GT that I've had for about 2 months.
Since day 1 I've noticed that when I turn the rear window defroster on, I get radio interference. I told the dealer about this and they suggested driving the car for a longer period since the rear defroster uses a lot of battery power. Didn't make sense to me since I drove 15 miles on the highway to the dealer, and the battery should have recharged by then. Anyway, the radio interference is still there whenever I push that button. Anybody else notice this?

Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005

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