Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005

tateos · March 2004

I would think twice about that one - maybe this car has had problems. Good luck, whatever you decide.

evandro · March 2004

Just a guess, but it seems that it was used as a demo by a dealer first. As for the 1-month owner, it's not unusual for cars sold at lease auctions.

Did you see the Carfax report? It should contain more details like Lemon Law-cars, etc.

Good luck,

evandro · March 2004

I sent a note, the absence of the GP was acknowledged, but nothing was done.

Could it be bias? Nice, Edmunds! ;-)

cigsmh · March 2004

Hi All,

As I mentioned before I was worried about 2001 Grand Prix GT already had 3 owners according to CARFAX report. I have asked dealer about this and he told me that he doesn't know all previous owners, but he could give me a report which reflects all warranty works has been done to this car. It was only 2 minor repairs, so I decided that this car is fine.
The car looks like new.
I have noticed though that it is noisy inside.
The ride is not quiet so does the engine. I used to drive Corolla and I was enjoying a quiet ride.
Somebody can tell me something about noise?
Is that normal for GT?
Being only 30 000 miles it still has original tires.
Is that possible that tires also contribute to this noise?

ruski · March 2004

well the Corolla did not have any engine

johnclineii · March 2004

LOL! And having owned and driven Corollas, I can honestly say the GP is much, much quieter, and DOES even have an engine, a good one!

Perhaps you should drive other Grand Prixs. There may indeed be something peculiar with THIS one car...

cigsmh · March 2004

Thank you guys for your responses.
I like the car, but I have never had GP before, so I am trying to understand what is going on.
The car is pretty quiet, but on High Way after 60 mph I can hear noise of wind and it increases as I increase speed. There is no any particular noise; it is kind of outside noise.
I still can return this car back, but I am not sure whether it will be right thing to do.
It would be a good idea to drive another GP, but I need to find one.

tek3 · March 2004

You should just rent one.

dan165 · March 2004

Have not been on in a while. Nothing to report on the GP, just gas and oid changes. Had the tires rotated yesterday for spring and had the brakes checked. Mechanically this car is sound and GM did a great job right out of the gate in terms of quality. Glad I didn't go Accord and spend more money on a first year rattle trap. Sounds like some of the owners over there aren't too pleased with their Hondas.

It's good to see GM finally getting their quality #s up and past the Euros. Won't be long before Detroit and Tokyo are neck and neck in terms of quality. The reality in my opinion is that they already are!

andy71 · March 2004

You may be right. I mean the highly underrated Buick Regal actually topped the Toyota Camry in long term reliability. I believe the Grand Prix shares the same powertrain right?

midlifecrisis · March 2004

I just hit 7 months and 10,000 miles. I love this car. I'm working on a tank of gas where I'm getting 28 MPG. Not bad for a big 3.8L engine. That beats my brother's 4-cylinder Accord, which he paid more for.

twobrowns · March 2004

I test drove an 04 GTP this week end and was very impressed, fun to drive,great engine, solid etc. However I am concerned about value, ie trading it in 3 yrs. The old GP had a terrible resale value. The rebates and discounts are great but will I be saving now but pay latter when I trade? Any opinions.

montanafan · March 2004

If you are concerned about future value, check out the GMAC SmartBuy finance option. Get $1,500 in downpayment money, $750 Bonus Rebate (at least in the Northeast) and $665 Rebate if car has leather. GMAC will buy it back for the balloon payment figure at month 36 (either 47% or 50% of msrp depending on the mileage plan).

midlifecrisis · March 2004

My co-worker just stopped by to tell me he is having another problem with his 03 Accord. This time they need to replace the catalytic converter because it is not functioning properly and is smelling him out. Apparently this is a wide-spread problem with the 03s.

dan165 · March 2004

Ya, Honda isn't what it used to be in my eyes. Seems like they are looking to cut costs at any cost. I guess they figure their reputation will hold sales. Seems not to be working as Honda sales in Canada are slumping badly as of late. They are certainly good cars but GM seems to be trying harder and my dealer really pushes customer satisfaction and calls me after each oil change to make sure I'm happy. You'd never get that from a Toronto Honda dealer.

midlifecrisis · March 2004

Despite how CR hypes Hondas and Toyotas in its ratings, I remember they took a poll of owners as to their dealer experience during the sale and thereafter for maintanance, warranty, service, etc. Toyota dealers always came in dead last place.

Every car is going to have little bugs here and there. I want a good dealer experience in dealing with the issues. My Pontiac dealer has been outstanding.

dan165 · March 2004

I'd sooner own a car with 3 issues and a good dealer than a car with 2 issues and a dealer that doesn't believe you have 2 issues.

;-)

carguy58 · March 2004

I am a Honda fan they seem to having problems with first year designs: the 01 Civic also had its first year bugs. I don't think its cost cutting at all. I think there are 2 things that are leading to these current problems at Honda: they are making alot more products they didn't have 10 years ago like the MDX and The Oddy. Problem Number 2 as I said up above Honda needs to watch it more with first year of bodystyle designs. Also, they totally drop the ball on the 03-04 Accord Sedan's exterior: the Mazda 6 and Nissan Altima are selling alot better than last year. Honda picked the wrong time to drop the ball on an Accord's exterior.

Talking about customer service Mitsubishi is dead last. I haven't seen customer service ratings lately for specific car brands. Last time I looked Honda was moving up a little in customer service satisfaction while Toyota stayed not in dead last but yes near the bottom.

davidinaz · March 2004

Hi all. I am the first to admit that my experience with the new widetrack Grand Prix was limited to a rental car. But the experience was that questionable in this one area.
Before I blast it, I do say that the car handles very well. The engine had power to spare and was able to get me onto the freeway with no problems. The dash board was very neat and easy to read.
But the one problem I had that is bothering me literally as of this posting is seat comfort. The car I got from the rental company was this cloth material that was as basic as possible. To me, it was a step or two above the material you would see in a car owned by a cities water department.
Second, the front seats were as hard as a rock. No comfort to them what-so-ever.

Another issue is that the seat is designed to keep you firmly in the center of the seat. Which is fine. However, the version of the car I had did not have any type of lumbar support. I have never been in a car before with this kind of seating with no controls for lumbar. (The car did have power seats to it's benefit)
No matter how I adjusted the seat, I could not get comfortable. From Orlando to Sarasota I stopped once or twice because the seat was bothering me that much.
Toward the end, my lower back was starting to hurt. AS of right now, it is a challenge for me to get in and out of any type of chair because my lower back is in that much discomfort because of this car. My wife's back was starting to hurt her when we turned the car in.

I wish the car designer would raise the car again. This thing was too low. Plus, where did they get that upholstery. I have rented Chevy Impala's and they upholstery there is nicer than the Pontiac.

I would be very hard pressed to rent this, much less, purchase this car no matter what kind of deal I would get!

Dave

tek3 · March 2004

We could debate all weekend about the disappointing comfort and design of the back seat, which I believe GM has redesigned recently. The comfort of the front seat, however, in my subjective opinion, is excellent. That's one of the bests parts of my '04 GP and has gotten me many compliments. Additionally, the GP is available with power seats that include lumbar support adjustment, probably not found on an '03 rental car.

johnclineii · March 2004

I have complained vehemently about the GP's back seat, which I do think is atrocious. But, if that short a ride in the new GP caused you and your wife such pains, there is a very distinct possibility you both need to seek medical advice. A short journey in ANY car should not cause such symptoms. You really do need to find out what is going on here. I doubt it is JUST the car.

fantascp · March 2004

I have a 2003 GT- although it took a few times
to get the seats adjusted to my comfort level
the front driver and passenger seats are fine, Granted, I have leather seats, heated driver seat and lumbar support, but a rental is a rental- you get what you pay for- don't judge the car by a rental vehicle- I also own a 98 Bonneville SSE which is (IMHO) more comfortable than the GP
but it is also a bigger vehicle and the MSRP was also higher- again- you get what you pay for.
If you are thinking of purchasing a GP- then test drive one with leather,lumbar support etc- don't bother with one without these obviously if it gave you and your wife backaches. If you still get a backache, purchase a different vehicle!

oogilieorang04 · March 2004

I know what you're talking about with the uncomfortable seats in the GT1. I had preordered my Comp G before the 04s hit the dealer lot. When they got one in (a GT1) I sat in it just to check it out. I thought I might be in trouble because the seat was so bad. I figured (hoped!) the Comp G would have better seats and sure enough, it does! I've driven for four hours without stopping and haven't had to "scootch" around at all. In my 97 (also with leather power seats) I could go maybe 1 1/2 hours.

tek3 · March 2004

Is there really that much difference between the cloth and leather seats beside seating surface material? Or are you saying that the trim lines have different seats altogether?

oogilieorang04 · March 2004

You're right, it's not really GT1 vs. Comp G but standard vs. power seats. Huge difference though!

davidinaz · March 2004

johnclineii - It is possible that it was not entirely the car. But, my wife said when we turned the car in and I started to have problems that she had never seen me like this. (Her back is not great - and she admitted it!)

I do know that I am a bigger guy who cannot handle the lower cars. I honestly thought the Grand Prix was the same height and comfort as the Impala. I did have some problems getting out of the car. (I hit my head getting out once or twice) But the back problems...OY!

Dave

johnclineii · March 2004

Well, I have owned both an Impala and a Grand Prix, 2000LS and 1998GTP, respectively. I can say the GP sits MUCH lower than the Impala. My father had Alzheimers and got to the point he could no longer get in and out of the Grand Prix without a great deal of assistance, which is why I traded for the Impala.

Perhaps you should look at vehicles like the Subaru Outback or the Ford Five Hundred...

rayainsw · March 2004

"One interesting bit of news from the sales manager was that the '05 Grand Prix GTP will have a 5.3L V8--still FWD. " - bunky36

Anyone else heard anything like this?
- Ray
Cross posted from Bonneville board . . .

midlifecrisis · March 2004

I drove in my friend's Impala for a long weekend trip. I like the Impala - I think it is a very nice car. The Impala sits higher, but it has a very high door sill to get your feet over to get in and out of the front seat. I found that put stress on my sore lower back at the time.

The base model GP cloth seats are atrocious, and the cloth has since been changed already by Pontiac. I would not have bought a GP without power leather and heated seats. The leather makes it much easier to slide in and out of the car, which is necessary because the top of the door is very low. At first it is easy to hit your head on the top of the door until you get used to it.

tateos · March 2004

David:

I too am not as comfortable as I'd like in my wife's 2004 GTP, but I feel it is actually due to the meager headroom (especially with the sunroof), and the fact that I am 6 feet tall plus long waisted (I wear 30" in-seam pants). I have to recline the seat significantly just to fit in, and my head still has to be cocked a little to the right to fit in the area where the sunroof is. I'm sure I would be more comfortable if I could position the seat without concern for head room, as I can on my friend's Regal. I'm not really complaining, as we knew about this issue before we bought the car, and since the car is my wife's and she fits in fine, we decided to go for it.

Anyway, my point is that the seat comfort may be at least partly related to the lack of headroom if you are tall or long waisted.

RM

naatz1 · March 2004

I posted this a couple times on the "GP Any recent Troubles" peer board. Thought I might get some ideas here: Ref earlier posts around #34-36 on 3.1L GPrix rough idling. Well have done 2 more things w/o any luck: One shop cleaned intake (said it was gummed with black stuff, seems strange since I regularly check air filter unless kickback of oil...I don't understand PCV). But that did not fix it. Went into another shop and they changed plugs which had only 5000 miles and tips were covered by crusty white compound, especially front plugs. That shop said it could be valve/rod guides and those need replacing and possibly entire valve job. In discussing it with my normal part time mechanic today, he suggested trying something easier and much cheaper than valve job: putting in new intake manifold gasket(s). So I plan to do that in next couple weeks and will update posting unless others have ideas first.
Any ideas???

BTW, this 10 yr old pretty reliable GP goes to my 17 yr old next month as we upgrade to a new Chrysler300M. THE NEW GP's just do NOT fit TALL PEOPLE!! I like the looks but at 6'4 literally can look out the top of the sunroof! We tried the Bonneville but that still did not have enough room, even in the back for my 6'1 son (nice car but to be truthfull besides room just does not stack up to the 300M w.their closeout model change prices and $4K rebates ... have owned 2 caravans and a grand cherokee with pretty good DC luck). So sorry but even though I like the looks of pontiacs ENGINEERS / DESIGNERS AT GM, WAKE UP; build some cars for guys over 6 foot please.

dan165 · March 2004

Seat comfort is one of the main reasons I bought a GP. I drive long trips for work and I can sit in my GT for hours, no problem!

midlifecrisis · March 2004

I too can sit in the driver's seat for hours on end. Although most of my drives are less than an hour...

idntnvu · March 2004

I read somewhere and/or it was said that the GXP would be rear wheel drive. I hadn't heard anything any different since then, so I figured it still stood true. My apologies.

minnguy34 · March 2004

I bought a 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix GT2 with cloth seats. I was going to get a sunroof and leather seats, but they only had the red exterior that I didn't like, so I went without the leather. The leather option includes 4 way power lumbar and heated front seats. I have driven the car 10,000 miles in 6 months and the driver's seat still bother's me. It is the most uncomfortable car seat that I have ever had, and that includes a Ford Pinto. I too have started having lower back problems from sitting in this car. I have never had back problems before. I noticed that one local dealer has started to order all of his Grand Prixs with at least the $150 Power Lumber option. I am surprised that more owner's of Grand Prix's without lumbar support have not commented on this. Consumer Reports also mentioned the "lumpy" feeling seats in the car they tested. I am still pissed that the salesman lied to me and said that the 24 hour test drive program had been discontinued. Within 24 hours of owning the car, I suspected I had made a mistake about not getting the power lumbar support. I figured I would get used to it, instead I just got a perpetually sore lower back.

montanafan · March 2004

Few things you could do to help your problem. Check out the local yellow pages for an auto seat company in your area. Have them replace the cloth with leather, or add support where your back needs it most. Check out http://www.katzkin.com in their other products section for the "Relaxor" seat system. Or trade your car before you put even more miles on it.

dan165 · March 2004

I saw an ad in the paper yesterday for a GT2 with sun roof, leather wrapped steering wheel with controls and all the standard stuff for $24995 Canadian cash price. Wow! Less money for more car than I have. Guess I should have waited. No wonder the GPs are selling so well.

tateos · April 2004

Isn't that always the way???

midlifecrisis · April 2004

I wnated the 04 Grand Prix as soon as it came to the market. At that time, I was debating between an 03 leftover GP and an 04 GP. The 03 had much better incentives, but I wanted the newer body style. I decided to order an 04 fusion orange GP, since the dealer did not have any in stock. It took nearly 3 months to be built, which was very frustrating. But during those 3 months, the rebates went from $1000 to $3000. And I paid 3 more payments on my trade in vehicle. So, patience certainly is a virtue!

tateos · April 2004

Are you happy you made 3 more payments on your trade in? I'm not sure that was good thing. Did the trade in value stay the same, or probably go down? And don't forget you now have 3 more payments to make on the GP.

We got our FOM GTP in December - I don't think the incentives are better now, and one we had received in the mail, a $750 24 hr. test drive incentive, has expired as of 1/2/04, so we have no regrets. We went out of our way for the FOM color - we drove from Fountain Hills, AZ to Tucson - over 2 hrs. each way - to get the car in FOM and with the options we wanted (every possible option except block heater - we don't need that here in the desert!) we even got the XM satellite radio, which we didn't think we wanted, but which found we like - especially me - I love it!

dan165 · April 2004

I guess I did get the benefit of having one of the first 04 GPs on the road. It was nice getting the looks all the time. Still do but not as much unless my wife is in the car.

;-)

midlifecrisis · April 2004

I made an extra 3 payments on my trade in vehicle...AND....I locked in my trade-in value when I ordered the GP. So I paid off another $1000 on my trade in, but lost no extra money on my trade-in vehicle. I won both ways!

tateos · April 2004

That sounds like a good deal! The best of both worlds.

john232 · April 2004

I think the leather PKG makes a HUGE difference in comfort compared to the early base seats. I just bought a GT2 with leather PKG including heated frt and pass seats with lumbar support adjuster, heads-up display and upgraded trip computer, the six CD changer with 9 speaker 243 watt monsoon stereo, side impact air bags, sun roof, 16" 5 spoke chrome wheels, and the color is silver. I work for GM so I got a REALLY good deal on the vehical. Heres how I think someone ought to order there GP if they want the best features at a reasonable price: 1) get the GT2 (24,075.00) with only the leather PKG (795.00) and the Heads-up PKG (600.00) and maybe the side impact bags (395.00) and XM audio PKG is cheap if desired. You will have a REAL classy sedan for around 25,500.00 less rebate at about 3,000.00 will get you down to about 22,500.00. Most dealers try to stack up the options on the GT2 like they did with the one I bought so you might have to order one or do a search at various dealers in your area. My wife traded in Her 1998 Olds Aurora that was loades with the autobaun PKG, aftermarket gold PKG, wood grain PKG, and chrome wheels, plus sun roof and the smooth northstar V8, and after driving the Olds for for 4 years and comparing it to the GP2 she said she wouldn't go back to the Olds for anything. She thinks the GT2 is smoother, quieter, more comfortable, stops quicker, has more features that make driving fun... like the heads up display and better handling on corners and less body roll and the CD changer is in dash instead of in the trunk. She bought the late model Regal LS when it came out in 1997 and drove it for 2 years and thinks the GT2 blows it away by a huge margin also. Before she bought the GT2 she test drove an Impala and a Montecarlo and they didn't measure up to the GT2 either, so she is very much in love with this car and will probably be driving it for a long time.

tateos · April 2004

I think the seats are OK, but not like my '97 Eldorado Toring Coupe.

We bought the GTP with Comp G, and everything but the block heater. There is only $2,200 difference between the base price of the GT2 and the GTP - for that you get the On Star system with 1 year of service included, Full function traction control, 17" (and nicer) wheels and tires, a drivers seat with 4 way power lumbar support, and, of course, the 260 HP supercharged engine. I am not saying you are wrong - it is a matter of opinion, but doesn't that seem like a bargain to you?

Now add the Comp G package at $1,395, and you get the $600 value HUD and upgraded trip computer included - that leaves $700 for the upgraded wheels tires, TAP Shift, firmer springs/shocks/stabilizer bars, Stabillitrak, Magnasteer, painted calipers, and 3.29 axle ratio (I admit, some of these things are a matter of preference, or of questionable value - red calipers especially!)When we bought our GP, we also got an extra $500 on the Comp G package, so we ended getting the Comp G for $200, the way I see it.

So our car listed for $30,765, and we paid $20,700 in early 12/03. This price was arrived at as follows: $3,500 GM Mastercard rebate, $2,500 GTP rebate, $500 Comp G rebate, $665 leather interior incentive from GM to dealer passed through to me, $750 24 hr. test drive rebate and the dealer discount (I think we paid $250 over invoice).

Richard Moore

john232 · April 2004

WOW!! You made out like a bandit. To bad you don't live in Dallas TX because I would have given you a "Suppliers discount coupon" and you could have saved another 1,800.00$$. How do you like your Prix? And what color did you get inside and out? Later.

tateos · April 2004

Fusion Orange Metallic, Dark Pewter Leather. I like the car, except it has a sunroof which limits the headroom too much for me to be comfortable. It is my wife's car, and she wanted the roof, so we got it. She loves it!

I usually drive a '97 Eldorado Touring Coupe - I bought it new - it has 109K miles miles on it now. I like the GTP, but I still prefer my ETC. The power is about the same - both go 0-60 in ~6.6 seconds, and do the 1/4 mile in ~15 seconds, but the power delivery curves are very different. The GTP starts off strong, but seems to fade as the revs build, while the ETC with the 32 valve Northstar engine is more sedate off the line, but really comes to life once the revs reach 2000-3000 RPM. I'm 47, and the GTP feels like the cars I grew up from the 60s and 70s - a lot of low end grunt. It is good, but the power is SO strong on the low end that when you do floor it, it can be a disappointment. What I mean is that it seems like with around 1/4 or 1/3 thottle, you are getting 3/4 of the available power, so when you do floor it, the engine does not have that much more to give. This may have something to do with the electronic throttle introduced this year, as I don't remember that being the case with my friend's supercharged 1999 Regal GS.

I know it's not a Cadillac, but I am a little surprised when a car listing for >30K in 2004 doesn't have some things I have on my 1997 car. No cornering lamps, no climate control, no remote gas door release, no electrochromic mirrors, no memory seats, no power seat on the passenger side, no automatic parking brake release. I had most of these things on my 1990 Sable which I paid 16K for. I know that the GTP has some things my other cars didn't/don't have, and I'm not exactly complaining but I just find it curious that certain things were left out

So you ahve a coupon worth an additional $1,800 that anyone can use? Wow, maybe someone would buy it from you - I know I would have. I could be wrong, but I seem to remember the $750 test drive rebate we used couldn't be combined with some other rebate or discount plan - maybe the coupon you have. I will try to console myself that is the case - that way we only missed out on $1,050 savings, still a lot!

Bye from sunny Phoenix.

montanafan · April 2004

The "Supplier" price is about 1.5% above invoice (4.5% above the GM Employee price). So you didn't miss anything big with your $250 above invoice price.

tateos · April 2004

I can't remember what the invoice was (of course I knew back when it mattered) but according to the bill of sale, we paid $28, 711 including destination charge before any rebates. $28,711 minus 250 = $28,461. $28,461 plus 1.5% ($427) = $28,888. $28,888 minus the $1,800 = $27,088 or $1,623 more than we paid before our rebates. Am I figuring something wrong?

So, how does that supplier discount work - can anyone use it? Do you get one coupon a year or something? I am just curious.

RM

montanafan · April 2004

There wasn't another $1,800 to save. Supplier Price in your example was $28,888, you bought for $28,711. You were actually most likely already under. GM has special prices available to their employees. They also have a program that offers special pricing to their supplier's employees. It is 4.5% above what a GM employee can buy for. A GM Employee can buy for 3% under invoice. So supplier works out to be about 1.5% above invoice. A program GM has been running call "GM Car in Your Driveway" gives employees coupons to give to friends to help them buy GM products. Posts I have read seam to indicate that they get atleast 3 whenever the program is run. Although I have seen posts that seam to indicate they can get more if they ask. The $1,800 savings is perhaps the typical price off MSRP.

Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005

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