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Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005

1737476787987

Comments

  • fantascpfantascp Member Posts: 175
    It may very well be the same AC Condenser and Compressor for the GP'S going back to the late 90's model also- I just did the 02 and 03 for a quick comparison-
    If you have time, go to Rockauto.com and bring up the list prior to 02 to see if its still the same units.

    *as an after thought, i put in the GTO for 04 - Obviously with that big engine etc- completely different units.*
  • fantascpfantascp Member Posts: 175
    narrowed it down further for you:

    From 1997 to 2003- both the GT and GTP have the same Compressor and Condenser

    Prior to 97 it was a different condensor and compressor model #'S (1996, 1995 )
  • bobinnjbobinnj Member Posts: 22
    Appreciate you digging into the AC components for the GP's. Obviously, they made a change for '04. Now if I could just get a comparo on the compressor specs, that might answer the question. They must have had reason for changing and, although it won't help me, hopefully they'll change back or resdesign the AC so it operates more efficiently. It definitely does not cool as well as most of the cars I've owned or ridden in. In meantime, for anyone considering buying a new GP ('04 or later) - 'caveat emptor'.
  • dan165dan165 Member Posts: 653
    No complaints with our 04. It works.

    I wonder why they changed and I wonder if the new ones have some cooling issues for some people? This is the first I have heard of the problem.
  • evandroevandro Member Posts: 1,108
    IIRC, many accessories are now attached to the engine block of the 3.8 Series III. I'm not very sure about the compressor, but the alternator now is (just hope it doesn't suffer from problems as that on the 3.5 DOHC did). Regardless, a simple change as different anchorage points would be enough to deserve a new part #, even if it's otherwise the same part. Therefore it's hard to assume that it's a wholly new compressor because of a different part #. The only way to find out is by comparing their specs, which is hard to come by...
  • fantascpfantascp Member Posts: 175
    This is going to be a little winded, but I have a lot of info for you.

    I had my 03 GT in for routine maint. etc this morning.(Local Pontiac Dealership)
    I got to talking with the parts dept people while waiting and asked them what was the difference
    between the 03 and 04 regarding refrig etc (R134A)

    They went into the service.gm.com site -(need a password to get the good stuff naturally!)

    They printed out a REFRIGERANT SYSTEM CAPACITIES sheet for me on both vehicles- 03 and 04.

    Your not going to like the numbers, but I'll recommend other options after this:

    R134A Refrig Charge- DOCUMENT ID # 960490- 2004 GP- 1.05(KG) or 2.3LBS

    DOCUMENT ID # 847987- 2003 GP- .997 (KG) 0r 2.2LBS
         
    The BTU rating for R134A Refrig (from another site I looked up) is approx 93 BTU'S per lb.

    Doing basic math 04 GP- 2.3 X 93 = approx 214BTU'S
                     03 GP- 2.2 X 93 = approx 205BTU'S

    If the above numbers are correct, the 04 has the HIGHER BTU rating.

    I know you said that you had it to two GM Dealerships to be checked out - dye test for leaks etc.

    I also spoke to the service dept- they said when they have a complaint -re-a/c not working right- they would completely purge the entire system- refill the PAG OIL etc- Re-charge with R-134A- check for leaks- (dye test etc.)- replace all "0" rings in system.

    (*Side note here- They said they have not had any complaints they are aware of regarding A/C not being cold enought etc on 04 GP'S)

    Did either one of your Dealerships do this for you or did they just test with dye?
    Also they said they WOULD NOT normally check under your dash to see if the Evaporator was mal-functioning, but this is another area to consider.
    (The Evaporator was also changed from 03 to 04)
    03- Part# 1562692
    04- Part# 1562962

    One last question- What Dealerships did you go to?
    I also live in NJ- (Northwestern part of the state)
  • oogilieorang04oogilieorang04 Member Posts: 12
    I don't believe you mentioned trying this (if you did, nevermind :-):

    We noticed the A/C wasn't too cold (even down to 5 blue pegs and full blower) a few weeks ago. The car was due for the 15,000 mile service (actually have 17,600 on it) and one of the things the manual says to change at 15K is the Passenger Cabin Air Filter. I had to tell the service dept. about this since it wasn't part of their routine 15K schedule :-|

    Granted, it hasn't been quite as hot here the last week or so, but boy what a difference! It's like that NAPA commercial with Mikey & Dale Jr. in the "frozen" car on the beach. I can only bring the dial down to about 3 blue pegs and it's too darn cold already!

    Just thought that might be the issue here.
  • idntnvuidntnvu Member Posts: 254
    I've told my dad several times he needs to call Pontiac, but he won't do it. He finally got the shade fixed himself yesterday, and is going to order a window switch from the local dealer closest to where we live (about 15 minutes away). The first dealership he went to was the one near where he works in NC. Just gonna order the switch and put it in at home, forget about the dealer. I totally agree with the "Mr. BADwrench" idea. I'm going to tell dad one more time he needs to call Pontiac and write/call the dealer, and if he doesn't, I may just do it myself. We try to avoid dealerships at all costs because this is the sort of thing that always happens. First of all you get ripped off, because they charge an arm and a leg for nothing, then they always seem to tear more up than they fix. We have better luck going to Joe Schmo's garage.
  • rkw2rkw2 Member Posts: 66
    At the 3000 servicing at the end of April I complained about the AC. Some things were done to correct it (I had to leave the car as I could not wait for it) I'm not sure exactly what they did as it did not appear on my receipt. But I read some things on the warranty work papers I signed. I should have requested a copy but did not. Then again in June when I was there for the 6000 mile servicing I also complained. The service manager told me that it was registering 55 degrees which is colder than standard. I was driving yesterday in the rain with the ac on. The car was cold , but I noticed when I went to change radio stations, the radio was almost hot to the touch. I just feel that the big front and rear windows combined with the heat being emitted off of the dash board when it it is in the cause.
    I've gone to Freehold Pontiac, Buick GMC in Freehold NJ. I've been pleased with the service there.
  • fantascpfantascp Member Posts: 175
    Al,

    Need your professional opinion regarding the 04 GP
    A/C problems for bobinnj, rkw2, etc.

    Anything else to look for?

    Thanks,

    Chuck.
  • racer17vracer17v Member Posts: 6
    Hey guys- just wanted to add some feedback. I have a 2004 GTP and my A/C works just fine. My girlfriend is always complaining it's too cold and even puts the heated seat on sometimes! Sorry to hear some of you are having problems, but I can safely say it is not happening in every car.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Chuck, I don't know if alcan reads this discussion - you might try also posting in an appropriate place on the M&R board where he hangs out.

    Let us know what you find out.
  • fantascpfantascp Member Posts: 175
    Thanks Pat,
    I'll try to get him on the M&R board.

    Chuck
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    You can link him here by right clicking on a message number here, copying that link and then pasting that into a message you post over there.

    Or if you want me to do it, let me know.

    I should have thought of linking him to the messages here earlier.
  • fantascpfantascp Member Posts: 175
    You can if you want to- I already left a message on the M&R board for him.

    Thanks again.
  • tjackson2tjackson2 Member Posts: 19
    I have 10,000 miles on my 04 GTP and have noticed that it does take off quickly and does an excellent job at burning rubber from a dead stop, but at about 50 mph the acceleration seems to drop off considerably. This is my first experience with an supercharged engine. Took it to the service manager and he said it performes like other GTP's he has driven. any comments? I traded in a 95 corvette for the GP
  • gzgtpgzgtp Member Posts: 83
    Just drove my new GTP home.
    I read that regular octane if fine to use.
    what is everyone else using?
    Do you notice better performance with higher octane?
    Thanks
  • gzgtpgzgtp Member Posts: 83
    I have only had the GTP a couple of days, but I seem to have very decent acceleration at 50MPH.
    I will be getting a better idea on acceleration during the commute this week.
  • tjackson2tjackson2 Member Posts: 19
    I tried it out again tonight and it shifts at about 50 mph, it has decent acceleration from 50, but not nearly the same as from 0-50.
    I don't think I'm getting the 6.6 sec. 0-60 mph they claim. I had the traction control off and it left a nice long black mark!!!!
    Guess I was expecting the same performance in second. Never guess I'm a 59 year old gear head would ya. to answer your question, it may be my imagination, but it feels a little peppier with premium gas
  • drwilscdrwilsc Member Posts: 140
    I had a 99 Regal GS, which has essentially the same engine as the GTP. The 3.8 supercharged engine has more torque than horsepower (280 vs. 260). These pushrods with more torque tend to go better off the line than they do at high sppeds. Engines that are smaller in displacement but have double overhead cam and multivalve are the opposite. They do not go as well off the line, but rev higher at speeds above 50 mph.
  • bobinnjbobinnj Member Posts: 22
    Thanks for all the info. on the GP AC ratings, etc. I complained to GM in Detroit and got a call back from someone who said he was Head Engineer for Pontiac. He said they made a lot of changes in the '04 GP AC system and it actually was "more expensive" than the '03. Guess that jives with your higher BTU ratings. They wanted me to bring it back to the dealership and have a Pontiac engineer check it. Since I had sat in a brand new GP at request of my salesman and it seemed to cool down slowly just like mine, I didn't see the point, nor did I want the hassle of leaving it, getting a ride back after work since they don't give you free loaners, even if it's warranty repairs, unless it will take over night. BTW - the 2 dealers I took it to were: 1) Salerno Pontiac/GMC/Buick in Randolph, NJ and 2) Norman Gale Pontiac/GMC/Buick. As far as I know, they didn't do any purging and re-filling with freon. They did check the "O" rings, though. I was told it was "full of freon", cooled down to 45F, and no leaks. Of course, they check it in a indoor service bay, with no direct sun or superheated cabin to put a load on it. No matter - I got fed up with the whole thing this weekend and traded it in for a new Maxima SL. Wow - what a difference! AC comes out cold almost immediately (has dual climate control) and I have to turn the temp up after just a few minutes. BTW - The power surge out of the Nismo 3.5L V6 is impressive and trannie shifts smooth as silk - seems to just take off with no moaning or groaning, like my GTP did, which felt more like a lumbering tank accelerating. I made a big mistake buying the Pontiac, and it cost me big coin to get out of it, but I am happy I did. Not having to deal with these incompetent GM service centers is worth the price. I'm glad not everyone has the problem I did with the GP, but considering my GTP was low mileage, I will chalk it up to it being a lemon. Wish all you GP'ers good luck - I'm gone.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Congrats on your Maxima, I hope you like it.

    Know, however, that with automatic climate control, the temp should be set on the temperature you want it to be. If you have to turn it up after a while as the car is getting too cold, then the setting you end up turning it up to is the place you should have it to start with. Just like a home thermostat, the AC will still get to the set temperature just as quickly, it just then won't go under it.

    Put another way, the car will not cool down any faster just because you set the temperature lower---instead it will just keep cooling til it DOES get that cold or you stop it by turning it up. That's what's automatic about automatic climate control. Once you have it, you will never want to go back.

    My 98 Grand Prix GTP had it. GM deleted it, even as an option, on Grand Prix a couple of years later.
  • dan165dan165 Member Posts: 653
    I think it was foolish to take such a big monetary hit selling your GP like that. I guess you have more money to burn than I do. I can understand the frustration we had a bad Sequoia a few years ago but when Pontiac engineers were going to come and look at your car's A/C, it's clear something was going to be done for you.

    Enjoy your new car though it cost you dearly. Better you than me.
  • montanafanmontanafan Member Posts: 945
    No, it wasn't foolish. He put his money where his mouth was. It is very rare on reading these and other boards that someone does what needs to be done to be happy regardless of cost and even comes back to close out the disscussion with the outcome. He knows he made a mistake by buying a vehicle he didn't fully check to see if it fully filled his expectations. He came here, he joined, he posted, with no quick fix that his dealers may have overlooked, he moved on. While I am unsure his expectations and perceptions are valid, I admire his conviction and actions.
  • idntnvuidntnvu Member Posts: 254
    I guess I'm just different from everyone else, but, enlighten me here. If you buy a new car, and the only complaint you have is the air conditioner...which "doesn't cool down fast enough," I have to say that doesn't constitute a huge problem for me. A huge problem is your new car breaking down, faulty engine, faulty transmission, stuff that will go out and make the car immoveable...that would cause me to want to get rid of it, label it a lemon, and take such a financial hit. But just simply the A/C not working like you want it to? I would not call that a lemon. If the car functions just like all the other Grand Prixs then, by gosh, every single one of them must be lemons! Some poor Joe will come along behind you and fall in love with your old (but new) GTP, and get a GREAT deal on it because you took the financial hit on it for him. I guess those of us who don't have money growing on trees in our backyard should appreciate those like yourself who do, and will simply get rid of a car because of pitty complaints. Enjoy your new Maxima, but how long will it take you to find something pitty wrong with it as well? Such as the radio knob doesn't turn like you think it should and you trade it in on an Acura.
  • dan165dan165 Member Posts: 653
    A person with conviction can still make a bad decision. The two things are not mutually exclusive.

    If you have lots of money to throw around like that then why would you buy a Grand Prix in the first place? Like "idntnvi" says, it's one issue and it could be fixed I am sure.

    Like I said, better him than me.
  • montanafanmontanafan Member Posts: 945
    Oh, thats what I said. He made a bad decision, I am with you on that. I just think the bad decision was the first purchase. I just don't think it was "foolish" to correct the results. Just difference between us on word choices. And it keeps the New Jersey economy humming along.
  • midlifecrisismidlifecrisis Member Posts: 391
    I'm all for keeping the NJ economy going, since I live there! :)
  • fantascpfantascp Member Posts: 175
    Sorry you did not want to wait to see what the GM Engineer's could have done, but thats all water under the bridge, anyway,
    Bottom line here is Your Money/ Your Decision!

     Good luck with your new wheels!!
  • bobinnjbobinnj Member Posts: 22
    Thanks to all who replied to my story - I enjoyed reading all the posts, pro and con. To give you a bit more background, I didn't take quite as big a hit as most buyers since I got the GMS discount (my sister works for GM) and the rebate last year. That's not to say I didn't lose several grand, but it was either waiting to see what the engineer had to say (remembering 2 trips to 2 different dealers, and checking another '04 GTP confirmed that there was nothing wrong with my AC unit),and watching my trade drop big time when the '05's came out (and brother, you would be suprised how much the trade-in value of the '04 GP's have gone down in 1 year - over 40%!). To answer some other posts - there are medical reasons why I need a good AC to cool quickly as I must transport an elderly relative with a heart condition. On hot days, we'd be sweating for the first 15-20 mins while the darn thing tried to cool down. Not good for the old ticker. Yes, it may seem foolish to get rid of a perfectly good, like new vehicle just for poor AC performance, but I'm a busy professional, and didn't have the time to go back/forth, depend on people driving me back to dealerships, etc. Why did I buy the Pontiac in the first place? Good question - besides getting the GMS discount + rebate, I never had a GM car before and had heard good things about the GP's (unfortunately, I didn't read Consumer Reports review a couple months after I got it, as they panned it, calling it 'mediocre'). Plus I liked the styling of the new '04. It was relatively inexpensive compared to an import sport sedan so I gave it a shot. It gave me decent transportation, but once summer hit, I dreaded going in it. Am I loaded with $$ that I can just throw money away on a bad vehicle choice? - No - wish I was. BUt my personal comfort and that of my friends/family are worth the money to me. Do I wish I could have had it repaired or had something done to improve the AC performance - Yes, as it was otherwise a comfortable, roomy car and mine was pretty well loaded up. But when 2 service mgrs tell you 'sorry - nothings' wrong, checked everything and it's operating to specs, etc', well you just get frustrated and eventually throw in the towel. Life's too short to get aggravated over a car. And no - I don't buy and sell cars willy nilly. Had my Datsun 280ZX for 8 years, T-bird for 15 years and Pathfinder for almost 3, which I still own. If I am happy with a vehicle, I hold onto it, even to point of getting an extended warranty when the factory one expires. I know it's not good money management to buy a new car and trade it in after just a year, but as I said, it's not worth my time or blood pressure to be aggravated. If someone can live with my GP and enjoy it and save a bundle over a new one - so be it. I wish them luck and glad I could make it happen. It certainly wasn't a pleasant drive in the warm weather (funny thing too - it had seat heaters and in the winter time, when you turned them on (low setting), it got so hot, you had to turn them off after just 5 mins or it felt like your -ss would burn! I complained to the dealer too, but again he said - nope, there's no adjustment, have to accept it. Another example of great GM engineering - NOT!).
    Good luck to all - I've enjoyed the interchange.
  • dan165dan165 Member Posts: 653
    Your explanation clears things up but I still think it was a rather rash and impulsive move to change cars like that. It's an issue that could have been cleared up.

    We have thoroughly enjoyed our Grand Prix and have had virtually no problems with it aside from some loose trim. The a/c was one component of an otherwise good car. GM engineeres have done a fine job with this car and I'm saying this after driving a Honda for many years.

    Like was said above, your money.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    "I'm a busy professional, and didn't have the time to go back/forth, depend on people driving me back to dealerships, etc"

    This is one aspect of 'reliability' that often seems not to be emphasized when considering new vehicles. Even when under warrantee, and the MFR is dealing with the costs, I find it both frustrating and very inconvenient to have to deal with repeated failures and / or problems with diagnosis. And the “they are all like that” response. I do understand that modern automobiles are tremendously complex devices – and prone to various problems.

    While I have owned several vehicles with a lot of soul and spirit, and less than exemplary reliability, I now try to find a combination of attributes that works for me. Meaning, enough soul to be interesting (more than a CamCord) and reasonable reliability. Not an easy thing to find in a contemporary sport sedan.

    I did own a previous generation GTP – and it did not have issues with the A/C – but living in Georgia I appreciate A/C and would prefer never to live here without the seat coolers in my current ride. I have no medical reason to ‘need’ powerful A/C – but I do like the comfort provided.

    - Ray
    Preferring never to deal with any automobile dealership, but . . .
    2022 X3 M40i
  • evandroevandro Member Posts: 1,108
    In another note, how's the Maxima so far? I like its styling, except head on. The engine is said to be pretty good, but I've read mixed comments about handling and braking. What's your take?

    I really feel orphaned by the whole industry. I despise trucks (not their owners), but sedans, especially large ones, have been neglected for years by both domestic and import makers. Nothing in the market around $25000 attracts me. Sure there are interesting wheels above $30000, but I refuse to spend that much on a car, in spite of being a gear head...

    TIA
  • idntnvuidntnvu Member Posts: 254
    My apologies for my rather blunt post earlier. We just didn't know the whole story. Having had to transport my 80 year old grandmother to medical appointments an hour from home 3 times a week for a year, I now completely understand your situation. My dad has a '98 GT as I think I mentioned before, and it works like a charm. My mother's car, a '93 SSEi Bonneville, has been threatening to give up the ghost recently and the '04 GP has been eyed as a replacement. She's not too fond of really cold A/C, so she probably wouldn't mind the long cool down, however I'd have to say it would be an annoyance on a particularly hot, muggy day. I myself, now knowing the whole story, have to say that I agree with montanafan, and admire you for putting your money where your mouth is.
    The main reason I came off so bluntly is because our family has had it's fair share of lemons, and a warm A/C would have been the least of our problems. Prior to my '99 XLS Explorer I now have, I had a '98 Suzuki Sidekick that lost the rear end at 34k miles, and sat in my driveway for 3 months before Suzuki ever did anything about it. When I traded it off in June of '03, the clutch was going out of it for the second time, at 55k miles.
    We'd had the SSEi about a month when it's first alternator went out, leaving us stranded in the intersection to Dollywood, right after the park had closed and hundreds of cars were trying to leave...while we blocked the road. The electronic module in the dash went out as soon as we got it, and had to be replaced, at the cost of the dealership where we bought it (it had 40k on it when it was bought in '96), then over time nearly all the electronics on it has went out...power windows, antenna, cd player, door locks...and it leaked really bad around the door moldings and the sunroof...which was remedied with a friend I call Silicone.
    A '92 Dodge Dakota was also a bit problematic, but was gotten rid of before the beloved transmission dropped...dad had it less than 3 years and 17k miles.
    We're on a pretty good stretch right now (knock on wood), and haven't had any major troubles. As you can see, I have reason for referring to an A/C complaint as "pitty," however in your situation it was major.
    I wish you luck with the Maxima. Stop in and let us know how it's going. The Maxima and Altima have also both been eyed as a replacement for mom's SSEi. Have a good 'un.
    idntnvu
  • bobinnjbobinnj Member Posts: 22
    Thanks very much for the wishes with the new Max. I hope it will be as good as the other 'Riceburners' I've had over the past 22 years ( 2 Nissans, 1 Toyota). I've had a few US cars as well - some pretty darn good with decent reliability, others not, like a used '89 Chrysler New Yorker I bought back in 1993 which shortly after acquiring lost the digital dash electronics, then sprung an oil leak, needing a major cylinder head job, then blew the trannie, all within 2 years. Bottom line - no vehicle is perfect, and individual ones probably vary, even within the same model line. Some of it has to do with luck, but my personal impression is that the Japanese cars, by and large, seem to have it over the US made cars in terms of reliabilily and engineering, whereas US carmakers excell in styling, powerful engines and 'glitzy' options, for want of a better term. I do not put a lot of mileage on my vehicles, so they tend to hold up pretty well. For those who do a lot of driving, I think the reliability issue becomes a big factor and the 'down time' of having it in the shop, getting rentals, etc., is a big negative. That said, it comes down to personal choice. I test drove quite a few vehicles before I decided on the Maxima. To me, it had the best combination of styling, features, 'fun-to-drive factor' and reputation for reliability at the price point (I did test a couple Infinitis, Acuras and Volvos, all very good cars, but couldn't see shelling out the extra bucks for what you get, some of which is 'brand status'IMO - not a priority for me). Having been a Nissan/Datsun owner in the past, going back many years, I felt comfortable with my decision. Will it be reliable and meet my expectations? I hope so. I can truthfully say that all the other Nissans and Toyotas I've had have been wonderful cars (never owned Honda but based on all the ones I see in the parking lots at work and in my development, they must be pretty darn good, too). Do I wish US car makers could make similar products? You bet I do - because I could get one hell of a deal on any GM-made car (In case you didn't know, GM employees are allowed to buy up to 8 vehicles/year at the employee discount, which amounts to about 4-5% under dealer invoice + any rebates/incentives). But based on my experience, it will be a long time before I go that route again. If you're happy with your GP and getting good performance and reliability - that is great and I'm happy for you. I was not getting 100% of what I needed or expected and arguing with Detroit QC guys telling me how wonderful their new vehicle was made, was not a good use of my time. And you know what? Thinking back to my 1st import - my sweet, Alpine white '82 Datsun 280ZX, I don't ever remember ever having a single complaint with a Japanese car, like I did with GM. To their credit, they did contact me and did try to resolve the problem, but only after I wrote pretty vehement letters to the Pres./CEO of GM and a few of his VP's - did I get some action. I shouldn't have had to do that - at least 1 of those 2 dealerships should have been more interested in satisfying me. Neither one of them gave 2 damns, dismissing my complaint and saying nothing could be done, so 'stick it.' They lost a customer in me, but I know I am not alone. I know I am only 1 person, but if it's made a difference, even in a small way, in how GM views customer satisfaction and how their dealers are behaving, it was worth my time and effort. If you say, "I'm dreaming - the mega-bigwhigs at GM doesn't give 2 hoots for the individual consumer" - probably so, but at least I have the satisfaction of knowing I tried and I did get thru to some of those at the top. That, for me, was the most rewarding part of the whole deal.
  • dan165dan165 Member Posts: 653
    Nissan customer satisfaction is not as good as GM according to JD Power so don't expect any better if you have issues with the new car.

    It is good that GM now may know there is a problem with some a/c units. Like I said, mine is fine so maybe your dealer had a bad batch?

    I'll tell you a story though, we have a lady in the office who bought a Toyota Corolla this winter. Her a/c works but it smells like rotten eggs. He dealer has looked at it twice and it still smells and nothing more is going to be done. She will live with the smell though it's her "last Toyota". Goes to show you GM / domestics are not the only ones with a/c issues on other wise very good cars!
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Hi bobinnj - just a note here. We don't like to have "rice" terms applied to vehicles here in the Town Hall. I'm quite sure you mean no harm, but since it arose from an ethnic slur, we prefer to avoid it.

    Thanks!

    And enjoy your new Max - maybe I'll see you over in that discussion as well. :)
  • bobinnjbobinnj Member Posts: 22
    (Pat - sorry. I wasn't aware that the term referring to a Japanese made vehicle might be considered an ethnic slur - not my intention. First time I'm hearing that, but if so, I apologize if anyone was offended.)

    As far as smelly AC's on Corollas, etc. - as I said, some of it comes down to luck. No auto mfgr. gets it right every time and you have to factor in the human element. As long as you have human beings assembling cars, at least those steps not done by robots these days, you're going to have the chance of something getting screwed up. That's why QC is so important at every step of assembly. I can only speak from my personal experience and those of my family (1 family member swears by Toyota and has had 2 or 3 Corollas and now a Camry and only has positive things to say about them. She would never own a US car if you gave it to her, but that's based on her Toyota experience over a period of 25+ years) - that is, the Japanese carmakers seem to be turning out a higher percentage of 'winners' than 'losers' and seem to have acquired the knowledge/skills to turn out relatively high quality, affordable and reliable vehicles over a wide range of model types. I think the US car makers have improved since the terrible days of the early-mid 80's when a lot of products coming out of Detroit were pretty awful. Hopefully they'll continue to make progress - which they'll have to do to survive. As I said, I'd rather buy an American vehicle to support the domestic economy, keep US auto workers in their jobs, etc., but after this experience, I'm probably going to wait several years before going down that route again. I'm signing out here and wish to express my thanks to all who tried to help me with my AC problem. I know some of you guys went out of your way to get me information from parts suppliers, etc., and I really appreciated getting that. It was nice having this forum available hear about other's experiences with their GPs. Good luck with all your vehicles, whatever brand they may be, and hope all your car troubles are minor ones. Happy motoring.
  • dan165dan165 Member Posts: 653
    Actually the air issues is pretty common with Toyota Corolla models. The dealer can't do anything about it. It's not a QC issue, it's a design issues much like it probably was with your GP.
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    Local dealer has some 05 models on the lot. Some quick observations - the new wheels on the GTP look sweet!! I also like the new wheels on the GT. The base model now has a single exhaust outlet - no doubt to save GM money. It actually looks pretty good, I was surprised that I liked it because I always thought the old GP with the single outlet looked bad.
  • dan165dan165 Member Posts: 653
    Base is now an SE?
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    I do not think they are calling it a SE, just the base GP.
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    I can not remember if anyone ever answered my question - are there cup holders in the rear??
  • montanafanmontanafan Member Posts: 945
    Yes, a cupholder tray is attached to the back of the front floor console resting on the floor for 2005.
  • bobinnjbobinnj Member Posts: 22
    Evandro - just to reply to your question, handling and braking on the '04 Max SL is excellent, so far. Actually seems 'tighter' than the '04 GTP, which I noticed would give me some torque steer as I rounded sharp curves. The Max holds it tight as a drum (have the VDC skid control option). If you're looking for a good, reliable sedan in $25K range, I have 2 recos - Camry or Altima V6. Both are around that price point I think and I've ridden (sister has the Camry XLE 4banger - very nice car) or driven in both and I think you would happy with either. If you're looking for ride comfort and great reliability - Camry is the one. For sportiness and handling, I'd go Altima. In fact I was all set to get a new '05 Altima 3.5 V6, when I test drove the Maxima. Having come from a loaded GTP, the Maxima SL felt like a better fit for me. The Maxima had some features the Altima did not, like AC/heat vents for rear passengers, so went the SL route rather than the SE, which gives you the 18" wheels and sport suspension w/rear lip spoiler. Both come equipped with nice Conti-Touring tires. On the SL, the ride is smooth - you feel the bumps, but much less than I had in the GTP, which was stiffer suspension, IMO. Steering, as I said, is tight. As far as styling - matter of personal preference. I like the new design, but then I liked the design of the new GP too. If you have a space issue as I do in my smallish garage, the Max. is a better fit (even has side mirrors that power-fold in - neat!).
  • bobinnjbobinnj Member Posts: 22
    Evandro - forgot to mention the Honda Accord. I think you can get one of these with the V6 for around your price point. I never owned one, but obviously, they're rated one of the best sedans out there in the mid- $20K range. My nephew drove one for over 10 years and couldn't kill it. Very reliable. You just have to test 'em all out and find the one you're most comfortable with. I notice Honda doesn't give much in the way of incentives, but I guess they don't have to. Probably can pick up an '04 left over for a decent price once the '05's come in. Good luck.
  • evandroevandro Member Posts: 1,108
    Thanks for your responses.

    I've heard that the Nissans and Hondas have a pretty bad torque steer when flooring off the line. Did you have a chance to notice that in your test-drives?

    TIA
  • dan165dan165 Member Posts: 653
    I saw a head to head GTP Maxima shoot out in the Toronto Star a number of months ago and the GTP came out the better car over all in terms of performance. Max may be a bit tighter in build but the GTP is faster and handles better.

    Good luck with the car. They do look pretty sharp. At least you didn't get a Camry. Yawn!
  • exalteddragon1exalteddragon1 Member Posts: 729
    Which car has more room, tha Maxima, or the GP? Do you feel more comfortable in terms of seats and materials?
    Like, i mean when you sit in the car, how are your impressions relative to the GP? Im not sure, but if you had the steering wheel shifts in your GP, do you miss them?
    Thx.
  • jpstax1jpstax1 Member Posts: 197
    I posted this same message in the "Buick Regal" and "Grand Prix, any recent troubles?" forums. However, I'm posting it here too, since I'm talking about the same engine that the GTP uses.

    My wife and I own Gran Sports. Her '00 seems much faster off-the-line than my '98. Her's has 35,000 miles and mine has 53,000. The throttle response at idle also appears to be much better with her's than mine. Both cars have never had a tune-up. I wonder if worn spark plugs or a clogged PCV could cause this problem? Both cars have been using Shell's V-Power gas, so I think I can rule out dirty fuel injectors. I recently had my tranny overhauled, but even that didn't seem to help. Both cars are getting maximum S/C boosts of 6-7 PSI. I was thinking of taking it to our Buick dealer for a complete engine diagnosis. I'd appreciate any suggestions. Thanks
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