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Mitsubishi Galant

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  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    The Outlander, although I have limited exposure to it (a short test drive last year, the 140 hp version, when Mitsu also offered a 25$ gift card on it) felt less agile than the RAV4 and Forester in particular, doesnt offer head side impact protection, nor does it offer stability control (deficiencies also of the RAV4 at the time, but no longer), I wasnt too impressed by ergonomics or materials quality, though the ride was fine. Resale is marginal at best, and regardless of the power upgrade, the Mitsu 2.4L is not in the same class as those offered by Toyota or Honda when it comes to refinement/noise. As you say, it did feel slow, but thats been significantly improved.

    The Lancer Ralliart is a good entry, and had it been around when I bought my 2.5L Sentra, I would have given it a shot. I like the increased room over the Sentra, but the refinement issue is debateable, I didnt think the Lancer 2.0L that I drove was particularly impressive, at least not more so than the Sentra 2.5. Again, Im big on head protection side airbags, which the Ralliart doesnt give you. Depreciation according to Automotive Lease Guide (of the Lancer LS and Sentra 1.8S, I couldnt find figures for Ralliart and 2.5S) is 4 to 5 percentage points of MSRP better in the Nissan after 2 and 4 years, which also counts somewhat in my book.

    ~alpha
  • gkearns56gkearns56 Posts: 49
    "by alpha01": I have to smile when I read your comments. You have a very accurate assessment of the Galant, as I've also noted in prior postings too. It's a good but NOT great car. Just another car in the mix. Ugly front, too much interior plastic, no specific market segment they direct their products to, their company is in deep financially trouble, which Benz-Chrysler final said they were "getting rid of them"; they had quality issue scandal a few years ago with that controversy that took place, they have poor resale value, they depreciate much quicker then other cars in the same class. It's not a car you turn your around and see the beautiful craftsmanship or elegant lines.
    As stated before, consumers have high standards and expectations. To merely just meet them is not enough anymore. Car companies must EXCEED them in order to be competitive; otherwise people will go to the brand that does this on a consistent basis.
    What's with the blocky/square look like on this new Endeavor (which is selling very slow too).
    Fire the people that are drawing or design these cars and bring a team in that appreciates beauty on the car. You can be innovative on technology without have to make your entire car look "cheap" and ugly. This is from a previous '89 Galant owner too.
  • ldbrickerldbricker Posts: 140
    It adjusts not only the timing but also the lift, depending on load, speed etc. Mitsubishi's biggest problem is that the slide of the later '90's took their reputation down with them and now, even though they have rebounded noticeably, the reputation hasn't caught up to the product. They still have work to do and still have a ways to go however they are ahead of their reputation.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    My point is I disagree with you. I dont think the product is where you think it is. Adjusting for timing and lift is something that has been featured on Toyotas and Hondas for years. And maybe if its the mid/late 90s thats hurting Mitsu, perhaps they should stop selling designs that hark back to that era?

    gkearns56- Thank you for your kind words. I hope to be in the automotive industry someday, in marketing/research/consulting... something of that ilk. For now, it looks like Im in Finance at Big Pharma :).

    ~alpha
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    Mitsu's four cylinder engines have always been at the top of their class in refinement, which means how smoothly it idles and runs. Way back in 94, the 2.4 engine far surpased anything Toyota or Honda made as far as refinement goes (my mom's 92 Accord 2.2 was rough by comparison). Mitsu was the one that pioneered the balance shaft equipped four banger and it shows. Today, it still is the equal of those manufacturers. Their 4 cylinder engines are extremely smooth at idle and rev as smoothly as a V6. They don't have the quietest engines when revved above 4k, but I question how important that is when you consider how little the engine is actually up there. It's not like it hurts your ears. Below 4k, Mitsu's engines are actually quieter then their competition. The Lancer's idle sound level was compared to a Lexus by C&D. How many times do you here that about an economy car that starts at 13k? To me, how quiet the engine runs in the city and on the highway is much more important then when pushing for max performance. In the Outlander, the engine didn't sound loud at all. I took it up to 80 on the freeway with the 03 version and it was smooth and quiet and had no problems getting to that speed. I find the 1.8 engine in the Corolla and Sentra to be louder compared to the 2.0 and 2.4 Mitsubishi engines.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    1) Mitsu's 2.4L engine may have been calmer and quieter than Honda's old 2.2L (used in 1990 through 1997 Accords), but there is no way that it is/was quieter/more refined than Toyotas 2.2L (used in 1992 to 2001 Camrys).

    Heres what Car and Driver said in July 1993 when the Galants 2.4L made its debut for the 2004 model year.

    "Lows: Hard ride, rough engine at low speeds"

    Of the Camry in the same issue: "Any four cylinder roughness melts away by 1500 RPM".

    An excerpt from the September 1999 issue of Car and Driver of the same engine in the Camry:

    On the Camrys 4th place finish and lack of power (which WAS the biggest issue with the 97-01s):
    "How can an enthusiast magazine countenance such dawdling? One word: refinement. Under wide open throttle, the Camry and Galant emit the least noise among this bunch, and the Toyota's idle is so smooth that we have been known to engage the starter in an already running car."

    Ahh yes, you say! That Galant. BUT the Galant tested was a V6, and you'd be hard pressed to find commentary on the Galant 4s refinement similar to that which Ive given about the Camrys (underpowered) 4. I couldnt.

    2) The current MIVEC iteration of the 2.4L Galant is not even in the same ballpark in terms of quiet and refinement as the 2.4L offered by Honda and Toyota.

    The Galants current 4 cylinder sounds unrefined and noisy at about 3500 RPM. Thats not high. IMO, neither is 4000. The best engines maintain their composure throughout the powerband, which the Galant 2.4L MIVEC does not do. I criticized the engine for its noise in my December post here, and it was also panned by Car and Driver, Consumer Reports, and USA Today's James Healy, who said this:

    "The four-cylinder has the coarse sound of an aged tractor. That turns into an acceptable growl when spurred hard, but otherwise is obnoxious."

    You're in the minority with respect to the 2.4L, my friend.

    3)HOWEVER, I would agree that the 2.0L is probably on par, perhaps better than the 1.8L from Toyota (the 2.0L engine feels slow revving though, which perhaps enhances impressions of smoothness) and is better than the Sentras 1.8L. The Lancer 2.0L, however, coupled with either tranmssion, poses a poor power/fuel economy tradeoff. (Its almost like a latter day Camry 2.2 that I spoke of earlier this post.)

    ~alpha
  • chuck1chuck1 Posts: 1,405
    On Friday April 30th (the last day of the month) I went looking at used Galants. I purchased a previous rental with 16,900 miles on it. I found the old registration in the glove box that indicated the car belonged to the Hertz Corporation. The car had Nevada plates on it that had been removed. I purchased the car in Southern California. It rides real smooth, and the 4 cylinder, while not a "powerhouse" is more than adequate. I had the car up to 80 on the test drive and didn't even know it. Well time will tell with reliability! It's the "charcoal grey."
  • I just got mine on April 22nd! Congratulations!

    Mine was an '03 with 14k miles. I just had a power sunroof put in it! I got the dover pearl white.
  • ldbrickerldbricker Posts: 140
    before you know it. The ride is good and there isn't much noise to let you know how fast you are going. Congratulations on your purchase.
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    I think we are discussing 2 separate things here. I'm not arguing about the noise Mitsu engines make. When pushed hard, my former Lancer was on the loud side and it had a very buzzy sound effect to it (it always sounded and felt smooth though). All other times, the engine was very quiet. Honda four bangers emit a more pleasant mechanical sound when revved hard, but that nicer sound quality doesn't mean it's a smoother running engine. I have little experience with Toyotas mostly because few interest me. I have rode in the 03 Corolla and couldn't believe how loud the engine was when accelerating at a normal pace. I test drove the 03 Matrix XR and it was about average in loudness (quieter and much smoother then my former Aerio SX though).

    What I'm trying to say is that Mitsubishi makes a very smooth running four cylinder. The level of vibration and harshness that can be felt is lower then many other four bangers. I was very impressed by a 94 Galant my sister test drove and by a 00 Galant I drove. The car was peppy and the engine very smooth. It felt more like a V6. Sound effects at full throttle aside, the Mitsu engine is smooth, refined, and quiet. It may not be the best engine in its class, but it's hardly not competitive. And I wouldn't say the engine loses its composure when its just as smooth at redline as it is at idle.

    I should find out soon enough how well their older 2.4 runs. I may be buying a 93 Expo LRV Sport tomorrow. I've been wanting one of these for a long time and I finally found one in good all around shape. Wish me luck since it will be a big gamble buying such an old car on limited funds already stretched between 4 cars, LOL.
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    I think we are discussing 2 separate things here. I'm not arguing about the noise Mitsu engines make. When pushed hard, my former Lancer was on the loud side and it had a very buzzy sound effect to it (it always sounded and felt smooth though). All other times, the engine was very quiet. Honda four bangers emit a more pleasant mechanical sound when revved hard, but that nicer sound quality doesn't mean it's a smoother running engine. I have little experience with Toyotas mostly because few interest me. I have rode in the 03 Corolla and couldn't believe how loud the engine was when accelerating at a normal pace. I test drove the 03 Matrix XR and it was about average in loudness (quieter and much smoother then my former Aerio SX though).

    What I'm trying to say is that Mitsubishi makes a very smooth running four cylinder. The level of vibration and harshness that can be felt is lower then many other four bangers. I was very impressed by a 94 Galant my sister test drove and by a 00 Galant I drove. The car was peppy and the engine very smooth. It felt more like a V6. Sound effects at full throttle aside, the Mitsu engine is smooth, refined, and quiet. It may not be the best engine in its class, but it's hardly not competitive. And I wouldn't say the engine loses its composure when its just as smooth at redline as it is at idle.

    I should find out soon enough how well their older 2.4 runs. I may be buying a 93 Expo LRV Sport tomorrow. I've been wanting one of these for a long time and I finally found one in good all around shape. Wish me luck since it will be a big gamble buying such an old car on limited funds alerady stretched between 4 cars, LOL.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Posts: 4,202
    I like those Expos.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    I always like the Nissan Axxess myself.

    About the 2.4L:

    "It may not be the best engine in its class, but it's hardly not competitive. And I wouldn't say the engine loses its composure when its just as smooth at redline as it is at idle."

    I didnt say its not competitive, I just said that its not as smooth and refined as the current 2.4Ls from Honda and Toyota. It is also loud, and I do feel it loses some composure at higher revs.
    I used reviews and quotes to back up my impressions. We can agree to disagree- but when it comes down to it, most sources cite the current Accord and Camry 2.4s as better engines. The Galant's is not a bad engine by any stretch of the imagination, but it is simply not as good as the Camcord 4s.

    ~alpha
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    I saw a commercial yesterday that stated there is free 3 year/45k scheduled maintenance on Galants and Endeavors sold this month. A very nice incentive that will greatly lower the costs of owning this car. Who knows if they will continue this offer after this month, but if sales rise, they just may decide to keep it.

    As for the Expo, I'm the proud new owner of this extremely versatile little vehicle. I got a 93 Sport model that has the rare factory power sunroof (along with all other power options, factory alloy wheels, and rear spoiler). It's 2 tone with tan on top and dark grey on the bottom. It looks very sharp and only has 73k! It amazes me that this car didn't sell better. The sliding rear door makes it so easy to get in and out of the back in tight areas and lessens the chances of door dings. Visibility is darn near perfect with the high seating position and walls of glass. The cargo space is massive with the seat up or down. And that 2.4 liter engine is a smooth revver with more spunk then you expect. I put the accelerator down halfway and it peeled out. At 80 mph, the engine is loafing along at a tepid 2700 rpms and is very quiet and even the wind noise is low (my Aerio SX was much worse in this regard). Mitsu sure designed a great mini-minivan that was way ahead of its time. It's too bad there is nothing else on the market today quite like it. I'm gonna hold on to this little gem for a long time and I hope my dog appreciates the money I spent so he can go places with me, LOL. This is now my 4th Mitsubishi product.
  • cracoviancracovian Posts: 337
    My 2.4 liter in the '92 Mighty Max turned 150K problem-free miles today - it's a little engine that could :-)
  • The top ten selling vehicles in the U.S. are in for the 1st quarter '04. It seems like business as usual as far as the Camry, Accord, F-Series and the Dodge Ram is concerned. Only the Eclipse seems to be keeping Mitsu afloat. I smell one of those typical $2-$3 or maybe even $4,000 rebates Mitsu loves to put out there around this time of year. Like I said of the Galant, Mitsu needs it to start kicking some major butt if they want to be considered prime time in the U.S.
  • chuck1chuck1 Posts: 1,405
    As the recent business headlines stated,Chrysler has pulled the plug on Mitsu. No more billions in cash to keep them afloat. Will there be a bail out? Probably. There is talk of the Japanese banks getting involved and some other private investors. But whatever happens, somebody, somewhere wants a return on their investment, and not just a black hole to sink money into. They cannot afford to give too much away anymore!
  • Why should Chrysler clean up the mess that the previous morons created??? They are not stupid and probably live by this principle: YOU &%!@# IT UP--YOU CLEAN IT UP!!!
  • cracoviancracovian Posts: 337
    Big surprise were the sales of the new Accord that fell 9% and ended below the aging Camry that gained 3%. The Altima is also gaing ground very quickly (25%!) and it wouldn't be so unrealistic for it to catch up with the rest in a year or two. Even Chevy Impala is selling very well but not the Galant :-)
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    I think all this talk about Mitsubishi sales being low enough for them to go belly-up are a bit exaggerated. Yes, they aren't selling as well as they did back in 2001. But they are still selling plenty of cars to stay in business. For example, the highly regarded VW Passat has only sold 9893 units in the first 3 months of 2004 whereas 14,528 Galants have been sold. Mazda sold less then 1000 more of their 6 sedan. The Lancer sold 14,467 compared to 14,679 Jettas. Mitsu can't keep up with the big sellers but their average sales are keeping them ahead of companies that do just fine on lower sales, such as Mazda, Suzuki, VW, and Subaru.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Sales matter, but not to the degree that is presented here. Theres a lot that happens in between sales and Net on the Income Statement. Ingtonge, I know youre a Mitsu fan, but seriously, who do think earns better margins on its sales? VW or Mitsu... Mitsu has significant carryover debt from the distastrous and stupid 0/0/0 offer, Mitsu offers higher average rebate/financing than competing non domestic makes, costs will increase due to the free (impressive) powertrain warranty extension, AS WELL as the recently announced scheduled maintence. Save the Eclipse, which competes in a low-ish volume market, there are relatively few vehicles in the pipeline. So exactly where is Mitsu getting the cash continue as a going concern without worry? Theres only so much the other Mitsu companies can offer. There needs to be some kind of White Knight player in this deal, as Renault/Carlos Ghosn was to Nissan. To this point, there isnt.

    cracovian- A few notes. The Camry is selling well because it is a good car, but also because regional incentives (though varied) offer up to $1000 back or attractive financing. The Accord offers only Attractive financing, and doesnt see the degree of fleet sales that the Camry does (about 12%). Margins on Accords are enough to offset the marginal sales drop. Altima sales are up, but this is likely because of the revisions to the 2005 model, AND ALSO because of cannibalization effects on the Maxima. Check out those figures. Down by about 47% month to year earlier, and over 20% on the calendar year to date. Finally, the Impala is seeing an insane amount of fleet sales, as Dodge stopped producing its fleet favorite Intrepid months ago, has little desire to cast the 300 in the same light, and Ford has pulled back rental sales as well.

    ~alpha
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Posts: 4,202
    Mitsu sales at a glance may not be that bad but I read somewhere that nearly 50% of their sales were now attributed to fleet sales.
  • rampedramped Posts: 358
    There simply is no compelling reason to buy a Mitsubishi product, which is sad for me to say because the '90 Eclipse Turbo I once steered even to this day remains one of my all-time favorite rides. I'd buy that car brand new in a second.

    But, with the company in serious financial trouble and its product line running from average to mediocre, why take the risk? If you want fun and dependability in a midsize Asian, there is the Altima and the MZ6. The Galant has reasonably edgy styling and a kick butt power plant, but after that it can't quite hang with the class leaders.

    The resale is going to be abysmal because, as noted above, the big rebates will be coming soon. My advice to anyone interested in a Galant would be to lease and let Mitsu worry about the resale.
  • chuck1chuck1 Posts: 1,405
    Whoa, hold on a minute!
    As, I stated in my previous post, I just purchased a former rental '03 Galant this past Friday. I purchased an ES with 16,000 miles on it for $10,400.00. These former "rental vehicles" is part of what is keeping Mitsu afloat. When I see a value, I jumped on it. I think one of the reasons (there are many) that Chrysler cannot afford to bail out Mitsu anymore is because the German ownership has created a MESS AT CHRYSLER and are pouring money in to it! This one will go down in business case study....How to ruin a perfectly good car company!
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    "As, I stated in my previous post, I just purchased a former rental '03 Galant this past Friday. I purchased an ES with 16,000 miles on it for $10,400.00. These former "rental vehicles" is part of what is keeping Mitsu afloat."

    The only way a second hand sale would be keeping Mitsu afloat is IF the second hand sale was made through a Mitsu dealership. Did you buy your Galant (yes, quite a used value, I agree, but a stunningly unattractive new car proposition for that very reason) from a dealership?

    That said, Im hard pressed to think that the ratio is 50%. Thats incredible, almost to the point of being unbelievable. Can anyone offer a citation on this?

    ~alpha
  • chuck1chuck1 Posts: 1,405
    Yes,
    the car was purchased from a Mitsubishi dealership, located in Southern California. If you know how to negotiate (I am in Sales myself) Southern California is the place where prices are lowest. They did lowball me on my trade. The details are as follows:
    Cash price of Vehicle $10,400.00
    Doc fee 45.00
    Smog Fee 50.00
    Sales tax 813.36
    License 137.00
    Smog Certificate 8.25
                                 11,453.61
    LESS TRADE 3,000.00
                                  8,453.61
    According to Edmund's, the private party price is $10.098.00. As I stated, I paid $10,400.00 at a VOLUME Mitsubishi store! I was also in a position where I paid CASH. Nothing motivates better at a car dealership than a check-made out to the dealership-and you tell them, "All I have to do is fill in a agreed upon amount!".
  • cracoviancracovian Posts: 337
    1. You said yourself that you paid $1300 more than a private party sale for a rental car - I might be missing something but how does this make a better deal???

    2. Dealers DO NOT get motivated by a blank check. They'd rather have a trade-in involved (you said you got taken here too) and financing which they make a lot more money on than anything else.

    But since it's all in the mind and you're happy then it's all that matters...
  • lackofdavelackofdave Posts: 37
    Interesting article above. thanks for posting. As someone that drives lots of cars I think Mitsubishi is doing some things well, other things a bit iffy. The outlander's stark but elegant interior and firm ride makes it one of my favorite small suvs. And the Evo..well what can be said. Everything else though?

    If they can reinvigorate the Eclipse the way the concept car promises, does something to the standard Lancer so it doesn't look like a wind-up toy with no style they'll be ok. The SUVs seem solid and I see them all the time on the road. The galant is nowhere to be seen. i'm driving one this weekend so will see what i think compared to the rest. I prefer the 6 right now to everything else mainly due to style and fun to drive factor.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    42.6%, while a good 7+ points away from 50%, is UNBELIVEABLY HIGH, and Good ol' Finny seems to be wildly optimistic, given Mitsu Motors complete lack of Cash Flows.

    Anon, thank you for the article. But one thing I dont understand is how come the article is dated May 07 2004, but contains items as follows: "Mitsubishi sold a record 345,111 vehicles in the United States last year. It had boldly predicted it would sell 500,000 vehicles in 2005 and 600,000 vehicles in 2007. However, it has twice reduced its volume forecast for 2003, first cutting its U.S. goal to 330,000 units in April, and then again to 300,000 units last month."

    When exactly is this article from? Is it really current? 2003 sales have been recorded some time ago. I'm confused and skeptical as to the pertinence of the information presented.

    ~alpha
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