Toyota Prius (First Generation)

cliffy1 · December 2001

The Prius is going off the on-line ordering process. All current orders will be filled, but after that, they will be allocated in the same manner as all our other cars.

I personally and not happy about this. The order system is slow, but it avoids a lot of the shady dealer practices. I'll be interested to see how things go from here. If demand stays high, it may become common to find the Prius marked up over sticker, but at least you'll be able to get it faster than 4 months.

mpgman · January 2002

What is real world mpg experience? CR says 41 overall, which is a lot lower than EPA. Thanks.

carleton1 · January 2002

We have NEVER had a vehicle that did not exceed the EPA estimates.

rfruth · January 2002

EVrental.com has some (very) used Priuses (sp?) for sale if you don't want to wait for a new one http://www.evrental.com/ResaleVehicles.html oh & I trust CR MPG ratings about as far as I can spit ...

rnznluv · January 2002

I see others have had tire problems with Prius. I love the car. Bought 2001 last March. Since then I've replaced three tires! Two were punctures from road junk. One was when I side-swiped a metal drain which then created a huge gouge in the aluminum wheel, which then punctured the tire. The wheel had to be replaced too! Yikes. Anyway, the tire shop said Prius tires are small. Not a very wide expanse between the road and the wheel. And the aluminum wheels are softer. Nonetheless, this just doesn't seem right. Our other car certainly drives the same roads and hasn't had a single flat in recent years. I'm going to read my paperwork over again and talk to dealer. Even with this problem, I am thrilled with driving a clean(er) vehicle and wouldn't give it up. Please share any insights or suggestions. Thx.

pateros67 · January 2002

I live in Greensboro, NC. Does anyone know if there is a car rental company in this area that rents Prius's. I'm not ready to commit to one unless I can test drive one first.

Thanks.

cliffy1 · January 2002

Any dealership should have a Prius available for a test drive. Many will even fill out a rental form and let you take it over night. If not, wait about a month because the Prius is becoming a regular stock unit. They will be allocated just like any other car in our inventory. At that point, the "rental" cars will be sold.

freewayguy1 · January 2002

Consumer Reports (CR) reported that they got 41 mpg on their test Prius. We have had our Prius almost a year and have put over 17,000 miles on it. Lifetime mileage has averaged 47 mpg, and we once got 53 mpg. We drive normally and don't try to go lightly on the gas pedal. I've read several owners reports on the web that showed similar mileage figures. As far as I'm concerned, the CR data is suspect.

dustyphil · January 2002

I'm now the proud owner of a Toyota Prius.

I'd like to thank the participants on this forum, especially cliffy1, for helping me make this decision.

One odd thing about the purchase: I placed my order in mid-December. I was told it would be four to five months. That is a little longer than I was anticipating, but it was satisfactory for two reasons. First, I expect it will be the car my daughter uses to get to school, and she does not yet have her license. She should be getting it in a couple months, so the timing fit.
Second, I anticipate a bonus in March. I planned to us that money, and did not plan to finance.

On the 3rd of January I got an email from Toyota telling me that my order was placed. I was a bit surprised that this email arrived almost three weeks after placing the order. I wasn't sure whether it meant that the order went in slower than I expected, or whether there was a delay in sending out the confirmation.

The next Monday I got a call from the dealer telling me the car was on their lot.

Needless to say, I was surprised.
And I suppose it was good news that it was in early, but I had to scramble to figure out how to pay for it.

It's still early, but I really like this car. I confess it drives more like a small car than I remembered in my test drive, but that would only be a problem if I were planning to use it for long highway trips. I don't.
The computer registered 48 MPG on my first full tank, but the actual mileage was 46. I plan to monitor it to get a better sense of the bias between the computer numbers and the real numbers. I anticipate that the mileage will get a little better, the early indications on the second tank seem to bear that out. My goal is to break 50 mpg for a tank.

markregel · February 2002

Ever own a notebook computer? The Ni-MiHd batteries in this car are not going to last forever. In fact, the charge capacity of even the best batteries is going to be greatly dimished after just one year. If it cost $150 to replace the tiny battery in a notebook computer, what is it going to cost to replace the batteries in a Toyota Pirus (or any other electric/hybrid vehicle). The experts at Consumer Reports totally ignored this important fact (probably didn't even think of it!). So did Edmunds. I'm sure a lot of consumers are going to be in for a big shock when it comes time to replace the batteries. Considering that a Honda CRX-HF, Geo Metro gets comparable or better milage, I don't think 48MPG is anything to write home about and certainly not going to be worth the expence of battery replacement. Even my old 88 Accord averages 40 mpg. My HUGE Dodge Intriped does better than 30 on the hiway. When they make hybrid cars that get 70 mph and are large enough for long trips, they might be worth considering. This may be a decent effort, but it's no competition for conventional gas cars.

pat · February 2002

Use the "Helpful Links" box on the left sidebar of this page to find Edmunds.com's just published "Spin Around Town" with the 2002 Prius.

What do you think of editor Neil Dunlop's review?

Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board

carleton1 · February 2002

Good comments on battery replacement costs. That is why I suggested to the Toyota rep at Annual Auto Show that Toyota should offer an ECHO LE model where the ECHO interior would be of similar quality to that of the Prius.
The Honda Insight is too small to be a serious competitor to the Prius. Same with Honda CRX-HF and the Metro.
CR often ignores important details in auto testing. Amusing to me that the small Passat with very poor rear visibility can be their #1 rated family sedan.

cliffy1 · February 2002

The battery pack, if replaced in total at today's prices would cost about $8000. Fortunately, they are modular so the chance of having to replace all of them at the same time is small. There are 32 individual batteries back there. Also, those batteries are warranted for 8 years or 100K miles, whichever comes first.

djasonw · February 2002

I really like idea behind the Prius but the mileage and price premium isn't that compelling. If I were to get a Toyota Echo which is $6,000 cheaper it would take me a LONG time to recoup since the mileage between both vehicles is negligible.

haceaton · February 2002

The "Spin around town" review of the Prius complains about the cassette stereo being a bit behind the times. I think it's really more a matter of wanting to make money on options rather than being low-tech. After all, the radio system is one of the few factory units that uses the RDS system.

It's now possible to keep the high tech radio RDS system, and add CD/MP3 capability too.

rfruth · March 2002

Here is a web site http://hybridautoclub.no-ip.com that has tips n tricks for you Prius owners and thanks !

toyotas1 · March 2002

I wish GM, or Ford, or Chrysler, or Nissan, or VW could do that.....

Kirstie_H · March 2002

We're looking for any woman who has recently bought or driven a hybrid car.

If you fit this description and care to share your input on the subject, please contact Kristen Gerencher at kgerencher@marketwatch.com or Jeannine Fallon at jfallon@edmunds.com by noon EST Tuesday, March 19.

raspberry · March 2002

This is in answer to tax questions that appeared here. I don't know if there were any substantive replies, so I'll just say this. I am not a tax consultant. But if you want some interesting reading, see publication 535 from the IRS. Specifically, page 46 - "How to Claim the Deductions", and go to your tax attorney for professional advice.

Kirstie_H · March 2002

Don't forget tonight's Town Hall Chat, 5-7 pm PT/8-10 pm ET. Tonight's topic -- Why my next car will/won't be a hybrid.

Hope you can make it!

kirstie_h
Roving Host
Edmunds.com

silly1040 · March 2002

Does anyone have a current update of how long it's taken to order your 2002 Prius?

rfruth · April 2002

Just saw this newsletter http://www.priusview.com/newsletter.asp

milt9 · April 2002

Had a problem with your my wife's 2001 year Prius. One morning we went out and the 12 volt battery was near dead. Wouldn't start! Called Toy emergency road service and the guy jumpered it to start(Good service!). Took it in to Toy (got a free loaner Camray) and after several days they reported that they couldn't find the problem but hinted it might be due to frequent short trips no recharging the little battery (Car has only 3800 miles on it since Feb. 2001.). This after they're replacing it on Feb 13 (Warranty. The service manager said they had four others cars awaiting back order delivery of replacement batteries at that time.) Since I have been taking daily voltage and mileage readings on it, keeping a log. Voltage varius significantly (12.4 after sitting two days to 13.1 volts right after a trip.)

I believe this battery just provides power to the computers, security system, lights and radio, when the engine isn't running or the car isn't moving. (I believe the motor-generator powers these functions then). Wish I had the circuit diagrams.

The car maximum allowable has a shutdown loss of 30-40 milliamperes. This P shows 9-12ma, except when one time at Toy when they got a 49ma reading.

The 12 volt battery is small like a motorcycle battery. It is a gel type, which I guess means it won't slosh around acid on turns.

Methinks either 1) the battery is not being charged properly, or 2) it has an intermittent larger shutdown draw that has only shown up once at Toy.

30-40 ma continual draw seems tiny compared to the size of the battery and the fuses used.

Now Toy says if the car is left for more than 4 days the 12 v battery should be disconnected. Rediculous!!!!

Anyone else have this problem?

jrct9454 · April 2002

...so can't relay experiences, but I have to agree that the statement that the "battery needs to be disconnected if the car sits for more than 4 days" is patently absurd. I would love to hear someone from Toyota engineering comment on that assertion.

Given how many owners use hybrids, this would be a real show-stopper if true. I have certainly not heard anything like this from the Honda side of the fence...

christhatcher · April 2002

After a relatively disappointing test drive of the new Honda Civic Hybrid automatic two weeks ago, we thought we'd give the Toyota Prius one last chance. Even though we first test drove the Prius last year, we now had a solid competitor to compare it to.

The Prius only comes as an automatic, and that is what we test drove yesterday.

Having owned my Honda Accord for 17 years now, I have to admit I'm biased towards Hondas, but facts are facts. The Toyota Prius outperformed the Honda Civic Hybrid in two significant areas where we found the Civic lacking: Where we were less than thrilled with the Civic Hybrid's acceleration, the Prius took off up an uphill freeway entrance ramp with punch and pep comparable to any other compact economy car. Where Honda only offers the Civic Hybrid in three limited and boring colors, the Prius comes in at least six colors, including a nice navy color we thought would be a good pick for my girlfriend who is now a vice president of her environmental engineering firm, and something a guy like me wouldn't be embarrassed to drive as well.

While quirky and unconventional, the interior of the Prius is also more aesthetically pleasing than the two-tone Civic interior. The dash mounted automatic shift lever takes a little getting used to, as do the digital readouts and touch screen computer, but so what? When most people still think you have to plug these cars in at night, what's wrong with educating your passengers as they ride. The Prius' interior also makes you feel as if you're in more of a luxury car than you actually are. The Civic Hybrid's interior makes you feel as if you're riding in just another Civic. The only advantage that the current Civic Hybrid has over the Prius right now is that the Prius wheel wells may be too small to accommodate chains.

Even though the word on the street is that the Honda Civic Hybrid standard version has better acceleration than the Prius, and Honda promises better exterior colors in the future, we don't have time to sit around and wait for Honda to get their act together. We're buying a Prius next week.

Chris Thatcher

Postscript: The Sierra Club's magazine "Sierra," published an article in their May/June 2002 issue (p. 64) where they compared the performance and environmental impact of a Toyota Prius Hybrid to a GMC Yukon SUV in a side-by-side road trip of over 700 miles in Florida. The Prius costs $20,450, the Yukon costs $35,552. Over the identical distance, the Prius achieved an overall gas mileage of 44.5 mpg, while the Yukon only achieved 16.3 mpg. The Prius used 16.24 gallons of gas during the entire trip, at a cost of $22.84, while the Yukon burned through 43.01 gallons, at a cost of $60.21. The Prius only produced an estimated 308.56 pounds of CO2, versus 817.19 pounds for the Yukon.

rfruth · April 2002

Thanks John1701 ! http://john1701a.com/prius/prius-userguide.htm

dsgecho · April 2002

rdeschene · April 2002

And if one wants, there's still the option of getting winter tires. That isn't really that expensive an option, when one considers the longer life you get out of the corresponding 3-season tires. I don't know about Blizzaks, but certainly Michelin Arctic Alpins are very good tires on snow, ice and wet surfaces.

Prius owners would probably see a fuel economy drop, but chains wouldn't help fuel economy very much either - kinda high rolling resistance there, I think.

msdickerson · April 2002

Is absurdly false. A couple Facts for you all.

1) I own a '02 Prius
2) The 12 volt battery is very small in relation to a normal car battery.
3) The 12 volt battery DOES NOT START THE CAR.
4) The 12 volt battery only powers the computer and the anti-theft system.
5) If you leave the car for long periods of time the 12 Volt battery will probably have enough charge to allow a start after at least a month.
6) The 12 volt battery can be jumped like any other car.
7) Go to yahoo_groups and read the Thousands of owners comments and problems and likes and dislikes in the prius groups.

thanks.

steve d.

mtngal · April 2002

And I have several questions. Has anyone put close to 100,000 miles on one yet? It will only take me 3 years (less if the winter is dry) to do that.

How does the car handle in the wind? I saw the reports in Edmunds about their Insight, and since I often have to deal with high winds, I wouldn't get one.

How comfortable are the seats for long trips? I found out a month after I bought it that the Tacomas have very uncomfortable seats if you have trips over an hour. Since my commute usually takes an hour and a half, comfortable seats are very important for me, and something that is hard to judge during a test drive.

I was impressed with the acceleration getting on the freeway, but the test drive was on totally level ground (no hills around the dealership). I would have to drive a freeway that goes up a long, steep mountain at freeway speeds. My 4 banger, 5 speed Tacoma often passes Honda Civics and Metros on the steep parts, only to have them "blow my doors off" when the freeway levels out. Would I be stuck in the slow lane with the Civics, Metros and 18 wheelers if I were driving a Prius?

Thanks for all your information!

msdickerson · April 2002

I have view some of the discussion on this group and find the same myths rolling around that have been dispelled many times over at other sites. The most informative site is the Yahoo-prisu-groups site (sorry about the constant ads), but myths which I saw here like the NIMH batteries will start dying in a year and their huge Chrysler car is better for the environment? well anyway obviously a Chrysler fan wrote that one.

At least the main battery pack is warrenteed for 8 years and 100,000 miles - which is pretty good and it is designed for at least 200,000 miles which is better. Actual real world experience shows no change in that battery pack after many owners having 40k and more miles to date - on US cars. Owners in Japan have had their cars for almost 3 more years now and we have not heard of any problems to speak of with the main battery pack.

The car is a steel car and will probably rot out long before the battery pack dies (at least in the salty areas of the country).

So that is just for one myth.

The other myth is about pay back time versus something like an Echo.

BOLD FACE NOW::

MOST OF US BUY THE PRIUS TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT _ NOT JUST LINE OUR POCKETS WITH EXTRA CHANGE BECAUSE OF GREAT GAS MILEAGE.

Was that loud enough?

Anyway - sure you can also buy a Volkswagon Diesel which matches the mileage or even does better than the Prius, but it is FILTHY to your lungs and our world..

Myths, myths , myths..

Someday I hope people realize that we all can do something about our environment and probably should be individually doing something.

It is surely known that our current government will only help the industries that pollute much to our demise.

sorry bout the politics..

steve d.

mtngal · April 2002

Thanks for the info about the batteries - I was concerned about that to a certain extent, but also with the CVT and how well it holds up in general.

I am not cross shopping the Prius with a little, miserly car, such as the Echo, because of my commute - I don't want to crawl up the steep portions of the freeway going 45-55 mpg when others are going 80.

I'm really interested in economy but not at the expense of everything else. My one way commute is usually an hour and a half, covers 75 highway miles, varying from slow-n-go to 75-is-too-slow, and (going home) almost 6,000 feet elevation gain. I need something that I won't burn trannys out every year (I did that with a 4 banger Nissan auto pickup), that can go up steep freeway grades at 65 or more, and that will be comfortable to ride in for long periods of time (something my Tacoma isn't). My gas bill is a large portion of my budget, so lowering it while being more comfortable than I am now is the most important thing for me. And what is wrong with that? If I buy a Prius it will because it will meet my transportation needs - otherwise I won't buy it, no matter how much better for the environment it might be.

It does seem at first glance to meet many of my needs. I know it won't meet all of them, but I have another vehicle that can handle those times when the Prius can't get out of the driveway. I really have a thing against shovels and chains at 4am...

raychuang00 · April 2002

I finally had a chance to drive a Toyota Prius (it's my brother's NEW car).

First of all, the instrument panel does take a little getting used to because it's not in front of you like a normal car. Also, the shape of the Prius may not be to some people's liking, either.

Anyway, what pleasantly surprised me was how much low end "pep" the Prius has. Getting onto the freeway was almost as good as my own Honda Civic HX CVT coupe, thanks to the CVT-like transmission on the car.

The first few days my brother has the car he reported fuel mileage of 47 miles per US gallon, not bad considering part of his commute is on the freeway.

I would not be surprised that a more powerful variant of the hybrid drive system on the Prius ends up on the Corolla within a few years.

rfruth · April 2002

Rumor has it there will be a hybrid Matrix in 03, tell me its so ! http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/hybrid_news.shtml

rfruth · April 2002

Matrix hybrid for 03 was on the above fueleconomy.gov web site when originally posted but your correct not any more and no I'm not loosing it (grin) easy come easy go, I like the Matrix/Vibe if only they didn't use gas like its going out of style (maybe it is) rfruth in Houston

miltko · April 2002

In response to msdickerson's comments on my Prius battery problem, first, I see you don't yet own a Prius. Without power in that little gel battery the Prius won't start. Been there! Done that! I know that the motivating force for starting the Prius is the 308v battery and the motor, but -- but, if the 12v battery is dead, you're DEAD in the water. Had to call a tow truck. Stevens Creek Toyota (San Jose CA) couldn't find a problem.

Since then nothing. I have read the 12v battery voltage daily or better and it's swang from 12.4 to almost 15 on a 2 place digital voltmeter. Seems to be more contact resistance or temperature dependent than due to discharge/recharge. However there appears to be a small run on these 12v batteries, based on back-orders for same.

The purpose here is to keep outr ear to the ground on problems; not to blast the other guy as an idiot.

miltko · April 2002

All right I was wrong. You do say you have a Prius. Try disconnecting the 12v battery and then starting the car. No computer. No starting relay (it only clicks on a weak battery). No wheeels!

I've thought of tieing two 6 volt lantern batteries together for an emergency jumper over the aux battery for my wife but stopped upon realiztion that that would be screwing with her warranty. Better to call the free Toyota road service to jumper her on some lonely night in a dark parking lot. No, she has no cell phone!

My wife loves her little Prius but she borrows my Camry if she goes somewhere at night.

The emergency backup battery is a ggod idea. It can't be much load to power the computers and close a start relay. Why hasn't Toyota thought of that? Even if they have no bugs in their wiring, machinery, or software, any battery can go bad. (Reminds me of years ago when Toyota ignition transistors failed you dead and Toyota had a recall to replace all of them.)

rdeschene · April 2002

Well, I don't know the form factor of the Prius' battery, but there are a few automobile batteries made with a reserve. Thus, even if you have a dead short that drains the rest of the battery overnight, you can physically switch the battery to the "reserve" and start it up.

ckring · April 2002

I have a 2001 Prius with 20K miles on it.

A Prius should work well for you except for the 6000' elevation gain. Any hybrid system will pull from the battery during peak periods. If your load factor requires sustained peak power you run the risk of draining the battery and then having to crawl home in turtle mode. It depends upon the actual route - is it straight up or are there flat stretches?

I'd recommend test driving one over your commute before buying. If the battery stays charged as you go up the hill the Prius should be a good car for you.

mtngal · April 2002

While there are straight stretches on my route home, the last part of it is all pretty steep. I think that if I can swing a test drive home I should because I have doubts about the battery charging. The last 10 miles has one short stretch that is level and another short downhill part. The last 2 miles is all steeply uphill. Before that it varies - some steep with as many level spots.

rfruth · May 2002

Is it time, oh yea !

http://www.canoe.ca/BizTicker/CANOE-wire.AUTO-Honda-Hybrid.html

canc · May 2002

I've just recently subscribed to this forum, since I think hybrids are the way to go for the future, at least for a short term solution.

Anyway, about the article from post 846, I got the impression that Honda had to build two cars to get to the Prius in terms of practicality and design. I'd have a hard time buying the Insight (very small, impractical, and manual tranny), but the Prius is the closest thing to an actual gasoline-powered car.

robvig12000 · May 2002

I test drove both the Toyota Prius and the Honda Civic Hybrid. I came away more favorably impressed by the Civic Hybrid. Longer wheel base, more leg room, better finish inside, more equipment standard than the Prius, and compatible in terms of ride and handling. In fact, I felt better with the Civic. Both are good cars; but, I'm leaning toward the Civic Hybrid.

Anyone else test drive both these cars and have impressions? I'd especially like to hear from people who test drove both and bought the Prius. Thanks.

Rob
La Grange, TX

rfruth · May 2002

There are several people who have driven both on the yahoo honda hybrid list (sorry Edmunds) check it out http://groups.yahoo.com/group/honda-hybrid/ heck one gal (Linda) owns both !

Rob
Houston, Tx

robvig12000 · May 2002

The Jetta TDI may be a better deal; but, if others are like myself, they are thinking of buying a hybrid because it is a hybrid (think GREEN). Cost of the car is a secondary issue.

Of course, Honda and Toyota must be loving that attitude.

mtngal · May 2002

You can't buy a TDI in California.

jrct9454 · May 2002

...TDIs are now available in Calif, and pretty widely for a change. Not every dealer has them sitting on the lot, but they are not hard to find and it doesn't take much effort to get a dealer to order or trade for one.

The reduction in sulfur in Calif diesel has allowed VW to [temporarily] meet the CA emissions stds. It will take another leap of technology to make it work after the next change in the law, but that appears possible also if sulfur content gets reduced to the mandated federal level of 15 ppm or less [due in '07].

mtngal · May 2002

I was looking at them 2 years ago, when they weren't available. Good to know they are here now, especially since there are a number of gas stations close to me that carry diesel for all of the trucks that are up here.

rfruth · May 2002

http://carsontoyota.com/spots.jpg

dsgecho · May 2002

1. For a previous poster, if a loaded echo is worth $15K then a prius is worth $20-21 K. One car is most assredly NOT the other. I fyou had really tried both you might know that.
2. I tried and tried to get myself into a TDI and almost did. Couldn't resolve VW service reputation and third world build sites. Otherwise the cars ARE great but still are about the same price as the Prius when you get them loaded with 4 doors.
3. Low sulfur diesel would help diesel technology to come to the US; it will be in 2007 courtesy of restrictions lobbied for the the petroeum industry here. Surprise, surprise!

Toyota Prius (First Generation)

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