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BTW coolguyky7, I think you will be impressed with the 2003 Corolla. Unfortunately the cost will understandably be closer to MSRP than any of us would like since the cars are just starting to trickle in. Even the dealer where I negotiated a price for my 2003 Corolla S mid last week has raised their posted prices from $500 to $1000 over invoice on Friday.
~alpha
Thank you.
I am paying $400 over invoice for my 5spd S. However, looking at their web site, the price is now $1000 over invoice. Backy is correct to wait when the price will likely drop. For example, the 2002 Camry was initially about $1000 over invoice until Mid-Dec. Nowadays they go for $100 to $600 over invoice at Fitzgeralds, depending on the model. To be honest, I would have waited for price drop if I had to buy the Corolla at $1000 over invoice.
thanks
What a good deal you got. Yes, you all are right about not buying it now. However, if the dealer here has not realized about this great car, hopefully I can get away with a fair deal. Otherwise I will wait.
The transmission does NOT have a clutch pedal or torque convertor. It would be a nice alternative from auto trannies for those of us who would like to remain "clutch pedal-free".
Here's some info on the tranny, taken from the following website:
http://www.daspyda.com/pics/smt.htm
"Sequential Manual Transmission has been introduced for the (MR2) model year 2001. The system, which uses an electrically-actuated clutch, is designed to be an active system. The driver, instead of just putting the lever in D for Drive and sitting back while the transmission does the shifting, will actually have to shift through the gears while accelerating. On deceleration, the driver has a choice of downshifting, or letting the transmission default to 1st gear. This allows the driver to be an active participant in the driving experience and only adds to the imense driving enjoyment this car provides.
The driver can either use the buttons located on the steering wheel, or may choose instead to use the shifter lever on the floor. Only in the anals of F1 racing would you find this setup. There are reports that the 0-60 time may slightly increase due to the speed of the electronic clutch.
A display in the
tachometer face
indicates the gear
selection
Testimony of an SMT Driver
"How does the SMT handle city driving?"
Perfectly! Like I said earlier, it's great for cruising. I can't imagine it being any better for normal driving. Well, maybe a switch for auto, when I feel really lazy, but the system itself is perfect if you're not (street)racing.
"Will it blip the throttle to match rev for smooth shifts?"
Yes. But since you have a wireless gas pedal, you won't feel a thing on the pedal. You can keep it in same position while shifting, and you can hardly tell the shift happened.
"How about take-offs from a dead stop"
Under normal driving it's just perfect. The car starts rolling the second you press the pedal, and there's no jumping or anything else. Just the smoothest acceleration ever. Take-off is pretty much like with normal auto-tranny, except SMT doesn't crawl.
"I'd expect the the Spyder's system should be tuned as a more comfortable transmission rather than full performance."
That seems to be the case. There's at least one (propably more I don't know about) shop working on making the shift faster. They managed in that..the shift came faster, but more "jerky". The client didn't like that, and now they are trying to make it fast&smooth. I asked if they could make a system that would shift smooth&slow or jerky&fast when I wanted. Having a switch for that selection somewhere..possibly the left buttons on steering wheel. But they didn't wanna say anything before their first system was done.."
I ordered the Sport plus package: spoiler + Aluminum wheels. Unfortunately, Toyota low on supply for the wheels so the car arrived with with steel wheels/hub caps. I get a "warranty" order raincheck for AL wheels and the wheels will arrive after a few weeks. I will try to keep the hub caps clean and avoid scraping the curb too hard when I park ;-)
I will provide an in-depth description later once I get some miles in.
The guy helping me was very helpful and he showed me the invoice right away. It was not the same one at cars.com though, however this invoice includes Dest. Fee(525) and South Eastern fee($565).
MSRP of Corolla S(-power packages, alloy wheels, Automatic transmission and something installed by South eastern distributor(like ashtray))
MSRP 17,280.15
Invoice 16,073.42 (included fee 565+525)
He quotes me for $500 over this invoice, but he does not have the car with 5 speed yet. So, he could not really do anything and I have to wait till they get it in the inventory.
Based on Cars.com
invoice= 12,700 + 484(pw package) +700(Auto)+ wheel + 525(destination fee) =15,069 + wheel
Let's say wheels cost about $400. Still, I would be paying 900 over invoice of cars.com.
So, no matter what car it is, I will be paying more than I should because the differences in invoices.
What do you all think? How should I deal with this?
Any input about this, I will be appreciated.
ps. Ifan: In virginia, Tax is 6% or 3%?
I believe the southeast fee (or Mid-Atlantic fee is my case) is not a part of the invoice. It is a fee that goes to the regional distributor. Toyota does not do its own distribution apparently. Instead each region has its own Toyota distributor. Why, this is so, I have no idea.
$565 seems high compared to the $267 I am paying. Maybe it includes the wholesale reserve fee, $145. Nonetheless, if your bottom line totals $900 over invoice, it's not too bad. I am paying $812 over. Unfortunately, I do not think these fees are negotiable. Only the MSRP cost is.
Anyhow, if you are set on getting the next S Auto, then see if you can put a refundable deposit down. Otherwise see if you can get something down in writing to lock in on the $500 over invoice deal. I seriously doubt the cost will go down for the next couple months. Just look at Carmax Toyota dealers; Corollas are going for $1000 over invoice, if even in stock.
Let me suggest you look into the sport-plus package if you are considering alloy wheels. You do get the spoiler for an extra $304 and it's covered under the factory warranty. I think accessories are only covered for a year. Not that wheels are at risk of breaking under warranty, IMO I think the spoiler compliments the ground effects on the "S" quite well.
Virginia tax is only 3%. Whoo Hoo!
Thanks,
Henry
'03 corolla's on cars.com. Check out carsdirect.com, they will give you a much better
idea, since they ask your zip code they may include any fees unique to your region.
Good Luck!!
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
Virgina does have personal property tax. It is about 3% of the value of your property (vehicles and boats) per year. Compared to Maryland, VA's personally property tax replaces Maryland's county income tax. The county tax is between 50-60% of one's state income tax.
Bottom line is VA tax system is generally easier on the pocket unless you spend a disproportionate amount of money on cars, boats, and trucks; for instance, make $45K a year but buy a $30K vehicle every 3 years.
BTW, I did pick up my Corolla S tonight. Unfortunately my driving experience was limited to DC rush hour traffic for 1 hr. The car is smooth, quiet and peppy despite not revving over 3500rpm. The low end torque on the Corolla is much better than any Civic I tried. I am very impressed with the effortless shifting of the 5 spd. With the drizzle tonight, I do miss not having variable intermittent wipers though. Finally, the overall workmanship/quality was impressive.
I compared it to an 02 Corolla and an 01 Civic at the dealership tonight. All I have to say is you gotta see it for yourself.
If you use Toyota.com, you will see that, depending on your zip code, certain options are not available on certain models or in combination with certain other options. For example, Toyota.com will not allow someone from my zip code to configure a 5 speed LE with ABS.
My question to Mack or any other Toyota salesperson or corporate type, which went unanswered a week ago, remains the same: Can I special order a Corolla exactly the way I want it, or am I stuck choosing between a 5 speed and ABS?
twist
1. Engine...pretty much a toss-up. The Toyota and Honda feel comparable in power and smoothness (even though my Honda Civic Sedan LX is a little behind in HP and torque...the EX is closer to the Toyota) Both are peppy and reasonably quiet with the 5 spd.
2. Shift quality...no contest here. Honda still makes the slickest, smoothest shifting manuals on the planet. The Toyota was noticeably notchier and required more effort to shift than my Honda (although the Toyota may smooth out with a few miles...my Honda has 15,000 miles on it). Downshifting from 5th to 4th was noticeably less precise on the Toyota. Clutch takeup on the Toyota seemed a little smoother than my Honda though.
3. Interior noise. I'm sure the Toyota is quieter than a stock Civic (Toyota is noted for their quiet cars) but I've added quite a bit of sound insulation to the floor pan, trunk, door pillars and rocker panel cavities of my Civic. The Toyota is quieter than my Civic was before but a little noisier than after my sound-deadening project.
4. Build quality. The Toyota seems to have it here. The Corolla seems rock solid and fit, finish and execution are first-rate. My Honda has a few quality issues from bubbling door panel upholstery to more rattles than should be found in a car with 15,000 miles on it.
5. Suspension...Toyota wins here. Honda blew it on the Civic suspension...too soft and way too bouncy in the rear. Ride quality deteriorates quickly on anything but smooth roads. The Toyota definitely rides better.
Overall, I find my Civic more fun to drive but a little behind the Toyota in some quality areas. I'm not so sure Toyota will necessarily steal Civic sales with the new Corolla but it will definitely give it a run for it's money. Let's hope Toyota did their homework and avoids the teething problems the new Civic has been experiencing.
- The ride is very smooth. Operation of controls and switchgear is very fluid. Overall, a feeling of comfort and isolation (in a good way) prevails. Compared to Hondas which feels more connected with less filtering of the road, noise, etc.
- This seems to be the highest sitting sedan on the road, with the possible exception of the Echo, Camry and the Avalon (notice a pattern here?). The commanding view is nice. Not so good side effect of narrow, tall car is susceptibility to high crosswinds, like today in DC.
- Engine, 5 spd transmission works very well. Adequate engine pull from as low as 1600rpm or thereabouts, the tach is too small. The transmission throws are short. Clutch pickup is smooth. I can shift from gear to gear much more smoothly than my old Civic since the Corolla has much better torque.
- main gripe; The driver side sun visor design is dumb. You can't lower the visor all the way to the windshield without striking the rear view mirror. What's up with that? I am reporting this to the dealer and maybe they will have a fix in the near future.
Finally, I can't wait to get the aluminum wheels that were missing as delivered from the factory. The dealer even will allow me to keep the hub caps. Maybe I will sell them on e-bay.
Let me add some addition comments on the seating position:
I agree with tlindeman on the somewhat awkward seating, particularly in the CE. With seat height adjustment in my S (also found on LE's), I can get a more comfortable leg room vs. arm position than in the CE I originally test drove. Not perfect still as the reach to the wheel is still longer than I'd like.
I think each car make has its own seating seating idiosyncrasies. Being acclimated to Hondas and their driving positions for past 12 years myself, it may take a while to adjust to the Corolla's arrangement.
However, it passed the litmus test for me today. I felt no discomfort that after one hour commutes to and from work.
Pat: You are right about the invoice on carsdirect.com. They bring the price closer to the invoice claimed by the dealer. But carsdirect.com also sells cars. Is that probably why the invoice quite higher than cars.com?
Thanks!
Marvin
You are right--I have noticed that the problem does go away when I open and close the gas cap. But then it comes back again later. My suspicions followed your line of thinking too (fuel pressure, gas tank venting, etc.) Any ideas about what to do to fix it? I don't want to take it to the dealer and get charged an arm and a leg, but it seems like this fix could be "a little over my head."
Thanks,
Marvin
1. The 2003's 130 hp does make a bit of a difference in pickup from stoplights up to cruising speed [40-45 mph]. Gets it there quicker and then cruise real quiet.Of course, I never thought the 2001 was really that bad either. Overall quiet is about the same for both cars.
2. Probably the best advantage of the 2003 is the higher seating position. Seats may/may not be better overall. The vertical height adjuster is another big plus on the 2003 and can be done easily while driving. Armrest is bigger and has 2-level storage. Overall handling in curves may be better- hard to realyy tel on the test course I ran. 2003 should be very competitive with the Civic in space, room, and ergonomics- and really handling also. Quiet is better in the 2001 and the 2003 compared to the Civic, IMHO.
Tested a GPS unit on the speedo of the 2001 and also a 2002. The 2002 speedo was too slow in indicating actual speed by 2 mph very consistently. Could be that as a Corolla CE it is not as goo as in the 2001 LE. For the LE, the speedo was off by 0.5 mph at the most. More interesting, when you set the CC it stayed at the indicated speed and varied no more than 0.5 mph [often less than 0.3 mph] and often less if the terrain was flat or even fairly rolling. This was on a 180 mi. trip from Nashville to Knoxville, TN so there are some pretty big hills at times. The consistency of speed was even a little better than a 2002 Prius for the same trip. Overall mpg for the 340 mi. trip better than 40- probably about 42 or so.
Cheers
Don
Sounds like it is definitely a venting problem. Unfortunately I have never had to fix that on a car. The only time I experienced it was on my brothers motorcycle. In his case he was using a non vented cap. I would think that the dealer should be fairly effective at isolating the problem
Tlindeman,
Car nuts are what these boards are about!
Hope the car is runnin' well and keep me posted.
corolla LE with leather seats looks like a mini lexus. it is bigger but it didnt have much headroom in the back and i'm only 5'10". the roof liner was already touching my hair. i find that you are sitting higher for both cars compared to the old corolla.
matrix, plenty of headroom in the back as well as legroom. between the two cars, i would have to say that the matrix is best buy/best bang for the buck! msrp is c$15280 for base corolla and c$16645 for base matrix.
Hope to hear from you before Feb 22 via the Talk to the Press discussion or at jfallon@edmunds.com with your thoughts and contact information.
Thanks as always,
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director, Edmunds.com
canadian models dont come with A/C as standard and no ABS on the base model - even as option.
i just went to look again at lunch time today and the more i look, the more i want to buy the matrix!
The 2003 Corolla is really, really nice. The body add-ons on the S look better in person than they do in photos, particularly in the reddish color they had on display. I liked the matte black look of the S interior more than I thought I would – it works for me. The fake woodgrain trim on the LE is done sparingly, and looks nice with the beige interior. The seats are softer than any other car in this class, but I didn’t sink in that much. The Corolla has a nice driver’s right-sided armrest. The manual transmission shifted as fluidly as the Civic’s, which is the standard of excellence in that realm, I think. I’m 6’1” and I was able to sit in the back seat immediately after pushing the driver’s seat back to my chosen position; my knees were a couple of inches away from the back of the driver’s seat – an amazing growth spurt since the previous generation Corolla. There are lots of nice storage cubbies. The spare tire cavity is covered with a plastic sandwichboard that seems nicer and more durable than the particleboard found in just about every other car in this class. Headroom is good in the front, gets a bit tight for me in the rear (will be no problem for anybody else in my family). Dual rear cupholders are the best in the class -- seem very sturdy and adjustable. This feels like a much more expensive car. It’s as nice or nicer than my 2000 Odyssey in many ways.
The Matrix and Vibe are even cooler than I expected. You sit up higher than a Corolla, but not minivan height either. But at the same time, I felt like I was in a roadster because the windows start up relatively high on the sides of the vehicles. In fact, I wondered if my sons would get a bit unhappy about the visibility from their low vantage points in the back seat with the high-rising doors. Headroom is massive. The plastic material that covers the cargo area and the back of the rear seats seems to be of very high quality, but I think I might break the little locking mechanism on the spare tire cavity loading a heavy item. The driver’s right armrest is a little low, but placed just far enough forward to make it useable with the dash-mounted shifter. The 5-speed on the Matrix/Vibe seemed a bit notchier than on the Corolla, but still very nice. The gauge windows (tunnels, really) would take some getting used to. The seats are covered with an attractive fabric with a lot of texture, almost a hint of rubberyness to them. No worries about sliding around in a turn in those things. The Matrix was a VERY popular attraction at the show, while the Vibe was empty both times I visited it. I thought the Vibe’s lower body cladding looked nice, though I still prefer the cleaner lines of the Matrix at this point. As far as I could figure, the rear glass can’t be opened with any sort of handle or switch on the exterior of the vehicle – only the whole hatch opens this way. The front passenger seat has folding mechanisms on both sides, so the driver can easily fold it down and use its hard plastic back as a writing/eating/whatevering surface. The driver’s seat has a cloth back with a map pocket. Plenty of rear seat room, same rear cupholders as the Corolla. I really, really liked these vehicles, whatever they are.
And I apologize to anyone who already read this as part of my grand "head to head" post on the Protege board.
twist
- Gas mileage is tremendous. How about 41MPG!
- Handling is much better than I expected; body roll is low, suspension movements are controlled even over bumps.
- The problem I posted earlier about the visor hitting the rear view mirror is resolved. The rear view mirror has two pivot points which can be adjusted. Duh!
- The 6 speaker CD/Stereo sounds pretty good. The highs are clear. Bass is adequate
The qualities that caught my attention from the first test drive still impress: smoothness and quietness, impressive materials, and general comfort and quality beyond the class norm.