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Audi A6

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Comments

  • timcartimcar Member Posts: 363
    If Mendham (Morris County) works for you, I've been pleased with Audi of Mendham. Got two cars through Bonnie Manniello. She's very good to do business with. E-mail me if you want any more info.
  • antbartantbart Member Posts: 3
    I went to lease an A6 2.8 b/c of that special thats going on right now. BUT the problem is that the deal has been going on for about a month and most of the colors I want are not available.
    I'm not stupid and realize that the 2.7t is much better but I'm not sure about the price until I went to the dealership yesterday and was made an amazing offer.
    First of all, all the other dealerships that I have been to gave me a 39 mo lease price on the 2.7t for $578 w/ $1600 out of pocket, which was a bit too much for me. BUT yesterday someone offered me a 39 mo lease at $499 w/ $2000 out of pocket.
    The car includes premium package, bose stereo, col weather pkg.
    The msrp is $45,500.
    Can someone let me know what they think of this deal?
  • timcartimcar Member Posts: 363
    I've read that the mileage is only 10K a year, and over mileage is a killer. Don't remember what it was, but check it out. IMHO, $2K out-of-pocket isn't great. My out-of-pocket was $100 through a credit union, with monthly lease amount approximate to STANDARD Audi Financial deal. Also '02 A6 should have some substantial improvements, and word on the street is A6 sales have slowed a lot. An alternate strategy might be to wait 4 or 5 months, and see what you can do on an '02. IMHO, it's more important to buy the car, than the price. From what I know, I'd be inclined to wait for the '02's. If that's a deal-breaker, then the offered lease IS pretty good, if you do low mileage.
  • dsumberadsumbera Member Posts: 8
    Picking up my new 2001 A6 2.7T this evening. Does anyone have any special tips for the break-in period?
  • antbartantbart Member Posts: 3
    I'm sorry, I forgot to mention that the lease mileage is 12K per yr.
    So thats $2000 out of pocket, $499 a mo for 39 mo.s on a 2.7t that was sticker priced at $45,500.

    Alright, another problem just came about, the Lexus dealer that I went to has just called me and said he can do a GS300 for the same price w/ 12k miles per yr.
    I test drove both of them and I think that they are both fantastic cars.
    Any suggestions and links to any sites that may compare the two.
  • antbartantbart Member Posts: 3
    The quote i recieved for the 2.7t was $42,212.00 and the msrp was $45,500.00.
    Invoice is $41,109.00, do you think I can do better than $1,100 over invoice?
  • vkjvkj Member Posts: 67
    what is your cap cost?
    what does this translate to in terms of invoice?
    what is your mf?
    I am assuming no security deposit and no acquisition fee?
    also do you own or lease an audi, presently?
    what state are you in?
    what shape is your credit in?

    from what I can tell you are over-paying. my goal would be $1000 over invoice with the base audi mf, which is believe is around .00139 for 2.7t (for the 4.2 it was .00153). You should decide if 12k mileage is reasonable as 15k will lower you residual by only 2%, which increase your payments by less than $20. If you really push the deal, $600 over invoice is probably doable as a recent poster got a 4.2t for $731 over invoice; however the difference between $600 and $1000 is only about $12 a month and I wouldn't loose sleep over such a difference. also I would make sure the color/option will suit you. the last point is probably a lot more important than some of the previous financial information.

    if you never leased before there is a lot of information you must consider, if you are patient the people on this board, the edmunds leasing forum and Audiworld.com can answer almost every imaginable question you can have.
  • adam68adam68 Member Posts: 59
    Interested in purchasing a base A6 2.8 with
    celebration package. How much should I expect to pay? Is 33k out of line?

    Thanks...Adam
  • traderalex1traderalex1 Member Posts: 39
    I saw your earlier post, regarding the inaccurate outside temperature gauge. I don't know where it is on the A6, as I have not yet had a reason to look for it on my car. But the sending units on most vehicles are usually bolted on somewhere low on the front end, possibly behind the air dam, or under it. Sooner or later, on all cars, they fail due to constant exposure to weather, or being struck by foreign objects. The sending unit is also usually a plug-in device. Once you find it, you should be able to just unbolt it from its mount with a socket wrench, carefully unplug it, and then replace it with a new unit. I don't know what Audi will charge for a new outside temp. sending unit, but these are simple little devices that usually don't cost more than $15-20 at the parts counter.
  • traderalex1traderalex1 Member Posts: 39
    Audi is sending out postcards to current owners offering them a $1000 to purchase a new Audi, or no-money down leases, if they purchase or lease by Sept. 20. Obviously, they are trying to move the cars in a slow market, to clear the way for the 2002. I have seen quite a few A6 and A6 Avant w/celebration package here in NJ. I would probably determine the dealer's invoice cost, and offer him that amount, at least to start. You must might end up with the car.
  • moimememoimeme Member Posts: 28
    Mine's dead accurate according to KGO, a local radio station I normally listen to when commuting to/from home. If they say 78, it's +78 on the dashboard. If they say 97, it's +97. If it's 41, it says +41. I HOPE they don't have my car bugged!

    The only time it's inaccurate is if the car has been sitting still in the heat for a long time. Then, it tends to overestimate the temperature until the car begins moving. Then, it rapidly closes on the real outside temperature.
  • lovemyaudilovemyaudi Member Posts: 1
    Picked up my 2001 A6 4.2 this past Wednesday. Here are my impressions:

    -Luxury all the way
    -V8 is smooth and powerful
    -back seat leg room is better then my 1998 BMW 528i
    -control lights at night are cool and helpful
    -17 inch rims look great
    -car rides smooth
    -takes bumps well
    -manual gear shifting is fun
    -ming blue looks great
    -cannot believe I own a $53k car.

    Later
  • dianeb773dianeb773 Member Posts: 19
    Does anyone know if Audi is extending the $399.00 deal on the 2.8 through July?
  • eddie2224eddie2224 Member Posts: 21
    Guys,

    What is new for 2002 on the A6. I am considering getting the car if I can strike a good deal, but I hate when new options could have been mine for free. Plus, I am really bugged by the fact that I can't get xenons without getting the premium package.

    help,
    Eddie.
  • timcartimcar Member Posts: 363
    Suggest you check the attached URL for the Audi AG news release.


    http://www.audiworld.com/news/index.html


    Not all items and colors will come to U.S. However a few highlights include Bi-Xenons, tip on steering wheel, more colors, 3.0 to replace 2.8. and all the many "dynamic improvements" described. Best guess is around September, but early build may not incorporate all '02 features.

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Chassis stiffness, unsprung weight on front end, Telematics, suspension changes -- and the list goes on.

    This is not a total redo of the A6, but this is a really big year for the A6. The previous years, by contrast have been evolutionary -- this one is closer to revolutionary (but it does fall short of that, however).

    I will wait, having a 6 month old 2001 A6 4.2 -- but what a difference a year makes! Hopefully even more changes when I order my 2003!

    If I could wait, I would. But the deals on some of the 2001 A6 2.7T's are very attractive -- but the content changes in the '02 might make me pause.
  • eddie2224eddie2224 Member Posts: 21
    I really appreciate the notice about the changes. Wow, it is a pretty extensive list. I noticed that ESP is going to be standard also. At an even I saw a demonstration of ESP in action and it was amazing. I think it is a "must have".

    Unless the dealer suddenly gives the car away, I will be lookning to next years model. thanks again!!

    Eddie.
  • gabmattgabmatt Member Posts: 2
    Unfortunately I can't wait (need a car) for the '02 to come out and therefore trying to get the best possible deal on a 2001 A6 2.8 Quatro (w/ Celebration Pkge, Cold Weather & BOSE). How does this sound or should I continue to shop : 15k miles/ yr, Taxes in pymt (NY), $ 0 Down , .... $492/ mth ???
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    If I were given a car without ESP, I would take it and immediately trade it in on one that did, eddie2224.

    In fact, both my wife and I traded in perfectly good 2000 Audis (her a 2000 TT, me a 2000 A6 4.2 -- on a 2001 TT and a 2001 A6 4.2) after we went through the Audi Driving Experience in Austria last year.

    ESP is as much as a must have as seatbelts, airbags, side/ceiling airbags, dual braking systems and ABS -- in other words, the small financial hit we had to take for dumping out of our leases early (her $0.00 me less than $2,000 and Audi made the first payment anyway) was, in our judgement worth it -- 'cause when your dead or laid up from a car crash -- you can't spend it anyway.

    ESP is a must have feature -- so much so that I cannot imagine any argument NOT to get it.

    BTW -- ESP was standard on the 2001 Audi A6 2.7T and 4.2 (here in the US of A). For 2002 it is going to be on ALL A6's no matter how "humble."
  • eddie2224eddie2224 Member Posts: 21
    The deal I was offered in Chicago area was for

    A6 2.8 Quattro
    Celebration package
    cold weather package
    Bose

    the MSRP was $39,300 and they offered it at $37,442. Stated a $21,222 residual after 39 months and a $450.98/month lease (but NOT including Illinois tax). This was for 15k miles per year. Upfront they wanted a $1,000 cap cost reduction (which I would have refused to pay).

    Take a look at the TMV calculator available on Edmunds and it would have shown an Invoice of $35,212 (incl destination charge) and a TMV of $36,530 (incl dest.). So, really, I needed to work their sale price down another $1,000+ before it was any good.

    I think you should really push them hard and go in armed with the TMV from Edmunds.

    Good Luck,
    Eddie.
  • vkjvkj Member Posts: 67
  • gabmattgabmatt Member Posts: 2
    The lease price mentioned was for a cap cost of $36,395 with a TMV of $36,530. Do I have any more leverage to bargain or should I realize it's a good deal considering the current Audi lease program: 0 down, 0 security, 0 bank fee, LOW money factor ....
  • vkjvkj Member Posts: 67
    Do you have much choice about the color combination? How about esp? Any chance one of the cars on the lot has it?
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Member Posts: 861
    I don't really see the NEED for ESP. If you want it, fine, but I sure don't see it as necessary.

    So far with 2,500 miles on my A4, I have yet to truly upset the car so badly that ESP would be necessary, and I drive it pretty hard. All you need to do is keep your right foot on the gas and the AWD will pull you through. Yes, you migh drift a bit, but it is easily controllable and fun, if you ask me.
  • john315john315 Member Posts: 5
    Am I the only one who thinks that the A6 rear end is ugly?

    I have never owned an Audi, but my wife's Maxima lease expires early 2002 and we're sold on the A6 except for that awful rear end.

    It appears from the audiworld link (thanks, timcar) that the new rear end will change only slightly. Anyone have any info on the new rear end?
  • timcartimcar Member Posts: 363
    John, the 02' rear end should be just about the same as the current car once they put U.S. bumpers on it. Beauty is in the eye . . . The rear end is my favorite design element. Guess you either love it or hate it.
  • zmannzmann Member Posts: 1
    MY 2.8Q Has a power loss when I start out from a stop. Happens about 25% of the time and you don't know when it will occur. I have about 250 miles on it so far. Took it back to the dealer no error codes,they said to put more miles on it. I tried turning off the Air Conditioning and ESP no change. You push on the gas it just seems like it is in 3rd gear starting out but I know that is not the case. ANY THOUGHTS?
  • JBaumgartJBaumgart Member Posts: 890
    zmann, does the tach stall out at a certain RPM or does it climb progressively, but just slowly? Does it exhibit the same behavior if you manually shift in Tip mode? Are you using premium fuel?
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Quattro is not a substitute for ESP -- not even close. Just like seat belts and air bags are not interchangable -- ESP and quattro compliment each other and improve each other quite synergistically. Don't leave home without it.


    For the latest and greatest on ESP go:


    http://www.abs-education.org/ishs/techindex.html

  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Member Posts: 861
    I understand it's a system there to help, but you've got to get your car REALLY out of shape for ESP to do anything. I think it's a good system, but I don't see it as necessary like you do.

    Let's just agree to disagree on this.
  • jim_mckeonjim_mckeon Member Posts: 17
    This might be a little off-topic, but I'm looking for a place in the Bay Area to get my black A6 detailed. Mainly I'd like a really good hand wax and possibly cosmetic removal of some scratches. Any recommendations?

    Thanks.
  • dsumberadsumbera Member Posts: 8
    Got 2 weeks on my new 2.7T. I, too, found the rear end wanting (been driving '89 Mazda MX-6 for 12 years and was used to seeing that rear spoiler). Had dealer install a small spoiler similar to the one shown in the "Boutique" accessory section of Audiusa.com. For show only, not a hard driver(yet) and did not opt for any of the suspension packages.

    The spoiler looks great. Puts just a slight flip in the curve of the trunk lid but does not square it off. Most often comment on the exterior is the rear end.

    Check with your dealer on what they have to offer. The other choice I had was a tall (+4" high) wing with the cyclops brake light built in. Not the effect I was looking for.

    Good luck looking and good choice. I am loving mine more each time I put it in gear.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    It is a free country -- we can agree to disagree and since we still can "vote with our dollars" we should buy the features and options that we as individual's want. I have no quarrel with your right to choose. This forum, however, is seen by many many individuals who do take what is written here as either absolute truth, absolute opinion and/or absolute crap (and probably a mixture of all the above).

    However, there are certain "facts" which need to be put out there for all to see, to make their own judgements.

    I hope this table translates to this forum -- these facts are facts. They may or may not "compell" someone to believe as do I, that ESP is vital!

    As you can tell, I have become so much of a believer in this technology, I would like to see all cars have this feature, as I believe it -- in another person's vehicle -- could save not only that person's life, but mine too. Sort of the logic, I want all cars to have brakes, tires, steering wheels etc -- cause it doesn't do me too much good if my vehicle is the only one that can remain under control.

    ==================== 4 Wheel=====Traction======ESP
    ===================== ABS========Control
    Prevents wheel lock-up
    under many road
    conditions yes no yes


    Allows driver to
    maintain control when
    brakes are fully applied yes no yes

    Sensors detect
    impending wheel
    lock-up yes no yes

    Pumps the brakes like
    a driver would, only
    much faster and more
    effectively yes no yes

    Engages when the
    driver stomps on the
    brake pedal yes no yes

    Prevents unwanted
    wheel spin in low
    traction situations no yes yes

    Adjusts vehicle
    acceleration when
    driving in low-traction
    situations, such as rain no yes yes
    or snow

    Helps drivers
    accelerate safely no yes yes

    Detects a vehicle's
    position in relation to
    steering input with use
    of sensors no no yes

    Monitors and
    compares a vehicle's
    movement with the
    direction a driver is
    steering no no yes

    Automatically brakes
    specific wheels,
    allowing a driver to
    maintain steering
    control during a skid no no yes
  • bbobabboba Member Posts: 3
    I just got my A 6 2,8 Quatro- delivered tomorrow. Any suggestions - how to get more power: filter,etc....?
    Thanks.
  • eddie2224eddie2224 Member Posts: 21
    If anyone thinks that AWD is a substitute for ESP, they have probably never driven a car with ESP. No doubt taht AWD is great for getting the car to move forward. But ESP will keep the car going "in the direction you want" in bad conditions. As an owner of cars (both AWD and not) that had ESP, it is an exceptional peice of technology. You can never tell where slippery conditions exist (i.e. highway exit ramps) and you don't have to drive a car hard to get the car sideways in the right set of circumstances. this is an option like airbags... you never appreciate it until you need it, and you NEVER know when you may need it. By the way, ESP is more like ABS than AWD. The difference is that you don't need to apply the brakes to get ESP to work.

    Another technology that should be on all cars is the "emergency brake assist" function. On my cars, it works to pull you to ABS if you are not pushing quite hard enough. The M-B rep told me that statistically, many accidents would be avoided if ABS was engaged, but the system does not kick in on time because people are not pushing hard enough at first.

    Just my two cents. But I have kids and I love the fact that I can afford this safety for them in case of bad luck on the road. I have real world experience of stearing out of large pile-ups and getting away clean while others were smashing into each other.

    Eddie.
  • john315john315 Member Posts: 5
    Yeah, I saw an A6 recently with a rear spoiler -- not very large -- looked nice and it did a good job of laundering that unattractive rear end. Dsumbera, thanks for the tip.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    A very high majority of people with ABS brakes generally behave -- so says the manufacturers, non-profit organizations and watch dog firms (and insurance companies) -- in the following manner:

    #1 Apply brakes, car begins to slow
    #2 Car needs to slow more rapidly, driver pushes pedal harder -- ABS "chattereing" starts
    #3 Driver takes no further action -- car either stops or hits something first

    Every piece of literature that I can find dating back to 1987 (when US Audi's and other cars started to offer ABS) says that ABS braking effectiveness and effeciency is at maximum ONLY when pressed "as hard as is possible by the human leg and foot muscles combined."

    When I took the Audi driving school, the two ABS instructors used two techniques to get this point across. The first instructor told us to pretend we were Bruce Lee and "kick the brake and clutch to the floor as hard and as fast as possible." The second instructor told us to imagine applying force on the brake pedal so hard that the brake pedal and mechanisim would bend.

    No one, and I do believe we all tried, could bend the brake pedal on an Audi.

    The tragic situation is that even with regular news items on local TV -- here in the winter wonderland we call Cincinnati -- that tell you not to pump ABS and to press as hard as possible to shorten stopping distances -- people assume that the moment the ABS chattering starts that it is unnecessary to press harder on the brake.

    So, brake assist, which measure the SPEED at which you apply the brake, rather than the PRESSURE you put on the brake and then determines if you apply the brake rapidly that you mean also to apply it as hard as possible -- are, in my opinion another "must have" feature on any vehicle that is driven where there are other cars, rain, snow, gravel, etc -- or even the possibility that you might just drive a little too fast for conditions (but then, who ever drives fast in an Audi?)

    These technologies would make me avoid cars that did not have them and seek those that did. Perhaps you have felt the same way about other "features" on cars -- seatbelts, dual brake systems, steering wheel columns that collapse and help you avoid breaking your breast bone, etc, etc.

    This forum is the most potent and readily avialble way to inform consumers that I know of. And, since most of us don't have a financial interest in the stuff that we post and read, I, for one, tend to treat it as one of the most valuable sources of information I can access.
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Member Posts: 861
    It's amazing any of us are still alive :)

    The truth be told, you have to do something not very smart in order for you to get in a position where ESP will help you (if you're sliding on ice, it won't help because there's no traction anyways - ESP cannot defy the laws of physics). I've driven cars/SUV's with 4WD or AWD my whole life. I've never slid off the road or into oncoming traffic, and I don't plan on starting (and I live in Denver, so we do get our fair share of snow).

    ESP can be valuable, but it is not 'mandatory' - lots of cars don't have it, and the vast majority of people do just fine without it. Really, it's a redundant system. AWD can pull you out of some bad situations - you just need to learn how to drive it (I am not targeting that remark at anyone, it is a general statement). AWD can straighten you out if you start to fishtail, you just give it a little gas. That's the thing with AWD - giving it a little gas at a time like that is counter-intuitive. Most people would hit the brakes, making the problem worse. I think most people just need to learn how to drive their cars better.

    Rant off.

    (I do like brake-assist, though. Especially for people like my wife, who is 5'2" and 110 lb. She just can't really lay on the brakes like I can at 6'2", 235 lb.)
  • thor8thor8 Member Posts: 303
    For the true owners of an Audi A6, we went to the dealer and took a look at the A6, very nice.

    Admitedly is more luxurious than a Passat, from the engineering point, is that much different?
    Tell me about the quality.

    Tell me your experiences good or bad, feel free to brag!

    We have a Passat and love it, but is 5speed, the female sector in the house would like an automatic, therefore we are looking into an automatic V6 passat or Audi A6.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I still have no quarrel with your beliefs and your right to choose any vehicle that you want and are willing to vote for -- financially.

    Any time there is a "relatively new" not widely "included in the price" technology there will be some ramp up time until the technology makes it into the mainstream. And this means that I wish the technology were mandatory. I wouldn't force you to purchase any feature -- and even though I am passionate about this feature, I do believe in the freedom of choice.

    My concern with our dialog is that we have made postings that are in conflict and although they both contain arguments that are non-factual (i.e., opinion based), it is important to have as many facts as possible "out here" for all to see. After the facts are presented, it is then up to each individual to evaluate them based on their circumstances and make, in the case of ESP, a $500 decision (at this time, on Audi products, that is -- since this is an Audi discussion board).

    ESP is not only engaged and helpful when driver error (doing something not smart) is a factor. ESP is there, on, all the time. ESP is preventative. And just because lots of cars don't have it today doesn't seem to be a reasonable argument for not pressing for it. At one time, not all cars had safety glass, dual braking systems, seat belts, padded interior surfaces, radial ply tires, crumple zones, etc. Yet, now, few of us would even consider purchasing a vehicle that was to be used for our daily transportation without these features, even if we could.

    We never have operated on the premise that something is "good enough" -- or "not that bad" or similar sentiments. And, I do completely agree with you "people just need to learn how to drive their cars better." But, according to industry data (perhaps biased, but from the Insurance Institute) it is easy to arrive at the conclusion that as there are more drivers on crowded highways perople have actually dumbed down in their driving abilities. What consolation in the reduction of fatalities from time to time can be at least partially attributed to vehicles that for one reason or another are "more survivable."

    All the technologies we have been discussing -- and those ARE available or standard on virtually all Audi products -- are part and parcel of making cars that can improve driver's chances of avoiding the loss of control and/or avoiding crashes and/or avoiding a fatality.

    Our point of agreement as a start can, I hope, lead to other points of like mindedness. Agreement: ESP cannot defy the laws of physics. No problem there.
    Agreement: I too have driven a long time (I am 50 years old) and have never slid into traffic, and I too do not plan to start. These things, however, are so hard to plan.
    Confusion: ESP is redundant -- what system is already in place that is a duplicate of ESP?
    ESP is available on front, rear and all wheel drive cars -- all wheel drive is not a substitute for ESP -- they don't perform any function that could be considered interchangeable -- none that I can find any evidence of anyway -- but, if you mean they are complimentary, then we have Agreement.

    How can AWD straighten you out if you start to oversteer (fishtail)? I have had over 24 Audis, 22 of them quattros and two of them with ESP -- the only ones that don't fishtail are those equipped with ESP -- and, although I do not claim that I am an expert driver, I have been through the Audi Driving Experience four times since 1997. And every year we use quattros -- and in 2000 and 2001 we had A4's equipped with quattro, sport package, manual transmissions, ABS and ESP -- what a difference it makes.

    I agree again that many things that are taught in these driving schools are "counter intuitive" -- it is almost freaky when put in a car that is understeering (left) to turn the wheel in the opposite direction (right) to make the car actually turn the way you intended (left). That blows your mind, no matter how many times you do it.

    What we can hopefully accomplish is to make certain that our words here in cyberspace contain as many facts as possible when dealing with technologies and issues that can be helpful in crash avoidance, maintaining control and perhaps even saving lives.

    We can argue, a very healthy argument, that ESP "takes the fun" out of driving under certain circumstances or that a silver car looks better than a blue one, or that a spoiler makes the end of an A6 more pleasing to the eye -- these are truly subjective and personal and fundamentally non consequential in the overall scheme of vehicle safety.

    And, we can even agree to disagree that ESP is "worth it."

    But again what I hope we will leave behind here on "critical" issues is factual and perhaps even persuasive.

    The facts pertaining to ESP are facts -- if we know the facts (and I am still learning them) we should present them to the best of our ability and let people make up their own minds.

    Thanks for the lively debate and "rant."

    This is fun -- IMO.
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Member Posts: 861
    I agree it's fun, too. And it does keep things lively.

    By the 'redundant' comment, I meant that for Quattro-equipped cars. AWD will get you out of a lot of the same predicaments that ESP will. For FWD/RWD cars, I do think it is very valuable (and I did consider it when I got my A4, I just didn't feel it was 'worth it'). So yes, maybe you could use the word complimentary instead of redundant, but I do still somewhat see the redundancy in function rather than design (getting you out of a bad situation).

    How does AWD help if you fishtail (oversteer)? Well, you turn into the skid and give it a little gas (don't floor it, mind you, just a little). As long as you have traction, you'll straighten right out, no worse for the wear and you've gained invaluable experience in the process.

    Yes, ESP helps the inexperienced driver. But unless the situation is life threatening (or even kind of threatening), I'd rather have the driver make the mistake and learn from it that to keep repeating the mistake just because the car saved him/her. For example, say you're turning into your neighborhood and the streets are slick. You kick the tail out on the turn. I'd rather have that driver skid into the sidewalk (hurting nobody, of course, except a little pride) and learn not to do what they just did than have the car save them all the time only to get in deep trouble where not even ESP can bail you out. I think programs like ESP help with the 'dumbing down' of the drivers today. That doesn't mean they are a bad thing, but I do think they are a bad thing when drivers count on them too much "I've got ESP and Quattro, so I don't need to drive carefully on the snowy streets", etc.

    So in summary, I guess I would say that I like ESP for experienced drivers, but I do not like it for unexperienced drivers. But I voted with my dollars and decided it was not worth $500.
  • eddie2224eddie2224 Member Posts: 21
    You are very right that many systems make bad drivers lazy. I clearly recall having to drive to the airport in the middle of a bad Januray snow storm in Chicago to pick up the family and seeing the road full of SUV's smashed into snowbanks. I was driving a lowly FWD with no ESP and made the trip back and forth with no problem.

    For those of us that grew up driving RWD cars in the snow (a Camaro for me) you really learned to feel the road and work with your machine. Also, you can truly appreciate what your "new" technology can do, whether it be ABS, FWD, AWD or ESP.

    As for ABS, it is now standard on just about all cars, but unfortunetly, hardly anybody knows how to use it. I read about it, so I knew. Most people don't know that you should apply full braking power AND stear the car. The ability to stear is the beauty of ABS. One accident I avoided was when the car infront of me abruptly smashed into the car ahead of it. I had to slam on the ABS, stear away from the accident, then hit the gas and use my AWD to get the hell out of the way of the guy that was going to slam into me from behind. Given the way I had to accelerate out of there and keep turning, I bet the ESP made the process easier to execute. By the way, the car behind me, slid all the way forward and hit the car I avoided!!

    Glad I didn't have to find out if the airbags worked great too.

    One last thing, I don't want to be on the road with the idiots who are learning to drive with no ESP. I say give them the ESP, ABS, AWD, Kitchen sink and make us all safer.

    Eddie.
  • mbnut1mbnut1 Member Posts: 403
    Heres how I would rank their added value.

    RWD only 50%

    RWD + ESP 60%

    Quattro only 90%

    Quattro + ESP 100%

    My ranking is based on having driven a new C-class with ESP at moderate speeds in the damp and haven driven my A4 quattro with sport at speed at mid-Ohio. I would take the handling characterisitcs of my quattro over the new C with ESP any day. The limits are so much higher. ESP can't do much when the fundemental limits aren't there. Having gotten the quattro out of sorts at mid-Ohio I was able to recover with a little judicious use of the throttle. The RWD with ESP took ages to recover. The basic A4 quattro with sport chassis is so capable I can't imagine a great deal of value added by ESP.
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Member Posts: 861
    That's pretty much how I saw it. Had I gotten a 325i instead, it would have had DSC for sure(BMW's equivalent to ESP).
  • automophileautomophile Member Posts: 780
    I was not aware of the Audi lease incentives running this month! I stopped by my dealer for a quick look at used cars, and found that I can lease an A6 4.2 for $599/mo, $996 drive-off! This is before negotiating down from MSRP. They have one in the glorious Nemo Blue with a Tungsten Interior and the premium package.

    It seems too good to be true. I have 2 days to decide - ' till the end of the month.

    Comments? Jump at it?

    Thanks!
  • bbobabboba Member Posts: 3
    i've heard about $629,$1600 drive-off on 4,2.that's for 10000/year and looks like there's no negotiation on MSRP at all... I've tryed on 2,8: the offer was $399/month,$1400-drive-off. So I got 2,8 Quatro(extra money),15000/year,$0-down. $505/month. o'k to me...
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I agree or virtually agree with everything you said -- except one -- I would rather have the inexperienced drivers have ESP -- I don't think my desire, which is high, to "school" them exceeds my desire to save my own butt from their bad driving. ESP could help the bad driver out of a bad situation -- and if I'm on the road with them, I want all the help their ESP could give me.

    And, even tho I don't really know you, if I had an extra $500 laying around I'd give it to you for ESP. I hope you don't have to be "scared" into getting ESP (although this is probably moot since all 2002 Audi's will have ESP standard).
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Member Posts: 861
    Maybe you're right. I guess ESP would help the bad drivers more than the good ones. I just wish (I know it's futile) that people would learn how to drive, then use the gadgets as extra protection, instead of relying on them like they do now.

    I hope I don't need it, either. But I don't think I will. I think Quattro can get me out of just about anything I encounter - I drive real slow when the streets get slick. And out on the roads today, you've got to drive very defensively and watch those around you.

    If it was standard, I'd be fine with it. I just didn't think it was worth $500. I did think the Xenons were worth the $500, though (Bose, too):)

    I'll still take the $500, though (I need a new lawnmower) :)
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    When this !@#$ recession ends, the lawnmower is yours -- one of my clients is Snapper!

    As the man says "I can get it for you wholesale!"

    See, this was fun! I suspect a newcomer to this forum probably thinks we're nuts! I know my wife (who is an avid Audi driver 2001 TT 225hp) sure thinks we are!

    Anyway, I sure am looking forward to the new 2002's even tho I will keep my 2001 A6 4.2 for another year to a year and a half!

    Happy and safe motoring -- I'm on vaca for 10 days -- I'll catch up, when I get back!

    Drive it like you live!
  • allartallart Member Posts: 17
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