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Audi A6

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  • morphiemorphie Posts: 94
    I ordered, about three (3) weeks ago, my wife's second A6 Avant 2002). The current
    one is a '99. The dealer had just received the order codes.

    While I am disappointed that it will not have the new CVT, the addition of the 3.0
    engine should cure the torque complaints. However, I agree with one of the
    previous writers that this has been an overstated problem.

    While we did, during the first eighteen months, suffer from a few electrical and
    recall woes, the next year and one half have been more enjoyable.

    BTW: I did test drive the allroad; nice vehicle with an exemplary engine.
  • I assume when you say you want to knock the dealer down from $499 to $459/month you're pulling a number out of the air. As I've said in many previous postings, be sure you understand where the lease price is coming from. For more info on this see my posting 1541. You may also want to check the lease conversation in postings 1436-1480.

    Audi's current lease deal is based on a low money factor (around .00142 on the 2.7t). However, it also includes a markup of 7% over invoice. I got my 2.7t lease for 2.25% over invoice. So, you can negotiate on Audi's current deal.

    Without going into all of the calculations, I believe that their current deal ($1000 down, .00142 money factor, 39 month term) should get you a monthly payment of around $455/month IF you can get them to deal for 2.5% over invoice. But when you talk to them, make sure you go in with that equation.
  • Of course, the above calculation does not include sales tax.
  • Mark,
    Today, I went to my Audi dealer to have the xenon lights raised. While I was there, I spoke to the service manager about sway bars and springs. He said the parts and labor for new springs (the springs that come with the 2.7t sports suspension) would run me about $1500 for parts and labor. He said that there would be a difference in ride, but that it would not be significant.

    He said that replacing the rear sway bar with one that had a greater diameter would be a lot cheaper (arount $200 installed), but he didn't know how much difference that would make either.

    Basically, he said that an A6 is simply not going to corner like my old A4 because of the car's design (larger car and longer wheelbase).

    Your thoughts on this?

    Will replacing the sway bar without touching the springs do much for me. I don't face a lot of mountain roads in Chicagoland, but I do miss hitting a cloverleaf at 50 mph without feeling like I'm going to go flying off the road. On the other hand, my wife does not miss me hitting clover leafs at 50mph.
  • morphiemorphie Posts: 94
    Even though the question was directed to Mark, may I interject my two cents?

    I recognize the limitations of the A6 relative to the A4; it is not unlike the distinct personalities of the 3 and 5 series BMW's. Mark's summary of his experience with roll bar and other suspension alterations is excellent. However, based upon my experience, I would caution an "incremental" approach; in other words, start with tires.

    The addition of higher performance rubber (e.g. Michelin Pilots, etc.) makes an enormous difference, in both responsiveness (positive) and ride (possible negative). Further, the change is reversible; with suspension modifications, you may not wish to engage in added cost and time, if the initial results are not to your liking. Of course, one may also want to consider the impact upon resale value.

    Consequently, I suggest starting slow, one step at a time. Also, one must accept that he A6 will probably never have the subjective feel of an A4; but it does have other redeeming characteristics

    vty

    Michael
  • I agree with morphie several things I need to clarify will perhaps help in the decision process regarding suspension upgrades.

    When I upgraded my 1997 A8's suspension, there was NO Audi of America part number to help me know what to buy -- there is now, BTW. So here is what I did, I called Joe Hoppen, personally (also talked with his son) and told him I want my A8 to handle more like the 1995 S6 I had traded in on the A8. He gave me some information and some costs and a recommendation. The net of his intial recommendation was "buy the Audi S8 suspension kit" with or without the S8 anti-sway bars, and put a maximum performance plus zero or plus one wheel/tire upgrade on at the same time. He told me that the Audi upgrade would have only a slight impact on ride, but a good effect on handling -- although he told me about an ABT upgrade that would lower the ride height by 35mm (the S8 lowered the ride by 20mm), but he cautioned me that the ride would be much more harsh with the ABT upgrade.

    I also put new shocks (which were part of the S8 kit) on the car with the new springs and tires. After my dealer installed everything and I had had my second all wheel alignment after 1,000 miles on the S8 suspension and 245 x 50 x 17 Pirelli PZero's (up from the 225 x 55 x 17 stock Goodyears) I noticed that the rear end of the car would "squirm" on sharp corners at speed when the road surface was NOT as smooth as glass (the roads around Cincinnati are generally not as smooth as glass BTW). I called Hoppen again and he said that I would cure that problem with a REAR anti-sway bar, but that I could buy both front and rear S8 sway bars for $295.00 (and have the Audi dealer install them).

    I ordered the sway bars and a high performance air filter, let the dealer install them and my A8 was, at this point, fully transformed into what I called my AS8 (for almost S8). I kept the car for about 47 or 48,000 miles, very happy with the performance of the car, even though it had the 5spd non-tiptronic auto transmission. The only thing I was missing, IMO, were the S8 sport seats (the 1997 A8 had "comfort seats").

    If you want to upgrade your Audi's handling prowess, I would buy the springs from Audi of America (on the website), plus zero the tires (to either Ultra High Performance or Maximum performance - Z or better rated; and, if you live where there are moderate winters, I would at least consider ultra high performance all season tires or consider investing in winter high performance tires and wheels and have a second set, ie) and order both front and rear upgraded anti sway bars (from Hoppen or another Audi tuner).

    You will have very little ride harshness increase and you will have significant handling improvements. I don't know where the cost estimates came from, they seem perhaps a little high. The springs are under $400, the sway bars under $200, the tires probably over $600 and if you have all this (which should include 2 all wheel alingments) done at once for maximum effect at your authorized Audi dealer, I would suspect your total cost will be between $1,500 and $2,000 based on my A8 experience. It seems the parts, today, cost less and the labor is more than when I had this done on my car in late 1997. The price you were quoted it seems to me did not include the sway bars and tires, and since the springs from Audi are $325 (which with tax and shipping will be UNDER $400), I do not understand why the charge for a spring upgrade (labor) was quoted at over $1,100. I think with parts cost of $1200 (springs, sway bars & tires) that a MAXIMUM labor cost would be $800 -- for a total drive it out cost of $2,000.

    If this is too much (see morphie's comments) and seems like a one way street, then I agree with morphie, start with the best maximum performance plus zero'd tires on the market (I like Dunlop SP9000's) and see if this incremental step is satisfactory. If not, go the rest of the way -- I was very pleased with the results. And, from this moment on, I will only order my Audis with the sport suspension option.
  • bmms8bmms8 Posts: 86
    what do you guys think is a better car between the Audi A6, and the Jaguar X-type 3.0?
  • portedported Posts: 16
    Right on about the 2.8Q. We also have a '99 A6Q and love it. It is fast at higher revs. Really seems to be set-up for a manual, as in Europe. Tip does help.

    Tubey: which warranty?
  • mknmkn Posts: 35
    We need your input to make some choices: we saw numerous Audi A6s in our area (used). One is a 99 A6 (loaded) with 64K miles on it, priced at $21500 (single owner); the other is a 98 A6 (same features) with 29K miles on it and priced at $26800 (ad on their website initially said $22900 but they said it was a mistake and immediately corrected it;it was a lease car though). Which of these is the better car? What is the maintenance like on the 99 A6 that has done 64K? Please advise.

    Thanks
  • minosminos Posts: 2
    bmms8; I highly recommend the A6. The Sept. Issues of Motor Trend and Car & Driver have a nice review of the sport sedans re: A6 4.2L. There is also a short take on the Acura 3.5RL in Car & Driver (saw your post on the Lexus GS posts). I will be returning my 1998 GS 300 in this week in place of a 2001 Audi A6 4.2L sedan with premium and sport package. Definitely a step up from the Lexus GS with respect to ride and ergonomics. I have enjoyed the GS, have had no problems in 3 years, but the A6 is definitely an improvement. I don't think the X-type is in the same car class.
  • I would buy the '99 ('98s were very trouble prone, I have one!) and take the $5000 savings to the Audi service department.

    Tell them that you want the car to be young again. It will probably cost much less than $5k.

    Also, replace the foot pedal pads, floor mats, etc. and have it detailed thoroughly. I think it's a no-brainer. Good luck!
  • My C&D September 2001 came yesterday, and the article about the BMW 540 vs the Audi 4.2 (and severl others) was very interesting. When has it been written that a 2000 version of a car (with 20,000 miles on it) is tested against a 2001 version? I thought this was only done when one car was at the end of the model year and the other one had an early new model release. The Audi tested was a 2000 (Audi probably has some 2002's here in North America) -- so the end of model turnover was hardly a factor for AoA.

    I read the article almost in disbelief -- the scoring according to the article was "so close" (between the 540 and the A6 4.2) that the author made a comment that if the scores were recorded again that the A6 could have been #1 and the BMW #2. The BMW received a score of 95 and the Audi a 94. And the Audi costs less! And, and, and of course it has quattro.

    When the 2002 and then the "new" 2003 A6's come out (and certainly replacement 5 series -- which may follow in the footsteps of the new highly anticipated 7 series Bimmer) the bar will again be raised. It has been so gratifying to see Car and Driver (my favorite of all the car magazines -- and according to my wife, I subscribe to them ALL) take the heat for again giving an Audi product such very high marks (and remarks). They did it with the A4 2.8 quattro sport vs the BMW and the S4 (circa 1994). Moreover, the S4 current version has received much praise in their publication and both the 2.7T and 4.2 A6's were on their 10 best list.

    My guess is that they'll take heat regarding the remarks that claimed the A6 and 540 were so evenly matched. Makes these 23 years of loyalty (to Audi) seem worth it somehow.

    BTW test reports, etc do say many good things about the new AWD Jaguar -- I have not driven one yet -- based only on the test reports, you probably wouldn't hate yourself if you bought one. But the editors of the car magazines still seem to rate the A6 more highly.
  • mbnut1mbnut1 Posts: 403
    The X-type is more a competator with the A4 rather than the A6 and I think that while overall it compares favorably with the current A4 it will likely not be as good as the upcoming 2002.
  • bmms8bmms8 Posts: 86
    thats cool, but the most im gong to spend on a car is not more than 40K, and the 4.6 A6 costs 50K...so under 40K, would the x-type be a good choice..?
  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    I doubt there are many people with enough real world experience to say if an X-Type will be preferable to an A6, but I doubt it. With all respect bmms8, you're cross shopping two different classes of car. If you're shopping $40K, or less, you would be hard pressed to fit a new A6 under that number. The A6 is better compared to the S-Type, 5 Series or E Class Mercedes. Though while Audi's have not always been trouble free, reports are that the S-Type has been even more so. I also think Jag dealerships are even more scarce and low volume than Audi, certainly here in the northeast.

    Believe the A6 is a larger and much roomier car than the X-Type. Without having driven, or even seen an X-Type, my suspicion is the new 3.0 A4 will be a much better and more reliable ride. If you're shopping under $40, that's the real comparison. And you really need to go test-drive each to get any inkling as to which you personally prefer. I've learned from experience that you can't car shop by reading auto magazines.
  • I agree, car magazines are useful perhaps for putting a list together. And timcar is also correct, in the PRICE class you are looking at, the new A4 3.0 quattro is your comparison point, not an A6 of any flavor (even the bottom of the line A6 will overshoot 40K pretty quickly.

    I have driven the new A4 quattro -- it is the best A4 ever.
  • Thank for the advice on handling upgrades. Sounds like tires are a good place to start,

    I live in Chicago (hence the userid), where we are known to get more than a little bit of nasty winter weather. My A6 2.7t came with the standard continentals (16").

    I would prefer to stick with the same tires year round. What would you recommend for a year-round performance 16" performance tire. How much will it improve handling? And how much are they likely to cost?
  • trejos28trejos28 Posts: 93
    With the BOSE system, what in the heck does the "MIDDLE" button do? All the other buttons make sense, but this one has me stumped and the manual is no help.

    btw, just passed 1,000 miles this weekend (only two weeks). can keep her off the road!

    Thanks for your help.
  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    May be missing something, but I don't recollect a middle button on my head unit. Is that what it says? Could be. There is a button in the middle for adjusting the mid-range of frequencies. Is this what we're talking about?
  • The middle button is just another tone control -- which will give you more flexibility when tuning the sound to your tastes. Some car sound systems have 5 tone controls, and there is one that even has more -- they call these things equalizers (but no matter what, you may call them tone controls). Their purpose is to boost or reduce the volume levels of certain frequencies in the theoretical range of 20 - 20,000 Hz (human hearing presumably -- but most people can't hear too much above 16kHz and a lot of woofers and tweeters start to roll off the volume levels below 50 Hz and above 16kHz respectively. Although, really good systems, with sub woofers and great tweeters go much deeper than 50 Hz and much higher than 16kHz. The Audi does have a decent sub woofer. The Bose sound system is, for a factory unit, pretty good to very good IMHO -- but there is a phrase that my audiophile friends say "No highs, no lows, must be Bose." I think that is a bit of a broad generalization and a bit unfair to Bose, but that's my opinion.

    Re tires: in Chicago, with your desire for a year round tire -- go with an all season Ultra High Performance tire plus zero'd (which on a 16" wheel would be 225 x 50 x 16"). I like my Yokohama AVS db's a lot (you can read up on them at www.tirerack.com) and they will cost no more than $140/each. One other benefit of this tire is durability -- they should last longer than a pure summer tire like the Dunlop SP9000's.

    There are several very good all season UHP tires from Pirelli and some other mfg's too. Tirerack sales folks are very good consultants in this regard. One of my criteria was I wanted a quiet UHP tire. Hence the db label on the Yok's.

    Keep us informed.
  • Here are a few questions from a new A6 owner.
    1998 A6 quattro.

    1) I have the bose system and it's great except that the sub woofer is killing me. Is there anyway to turn it down? I have the bass control to -5 already and still get tons of this boomy sound. If it was tight, it would be great, but this just sounds like a low budget speaker. I was thinking maybe there was a control on the sub in the truck.

    2) Can you get the Key and associated remote control anywheres beside the dealer. I understand that they cost about $160. is that right?

    3) Finally drove the car in the rain this weekend (yes, it rained in TN). I noticed that I got road grime all over the sides of the car including the mirrors. Are there mud guards you can get or is that taboo on a A6?.

    4) My car will be going out of warranty in a couple of months. Should I look into an extended warranty or just wing it? A better way to ask the question is for you guys who have high mileage, are there things that go out that would be cover under an extended warranty. I am concerned about of the electronics in the car and the quattro system.

    thanks.
  • amarchanamarchan Posts: 23
    I agree with Mark that tires do make a huge difference. Look into the Sumitomos at www.tirerack.com The HRT4 is really inexpensive, and it's a better tire than most. In my 1986 Mercedes 2.3-16 I had Pirellis, Bridgestone Potenzas RE-71's, Yokohamas and then the Sumitomos, and the Sumitomos were the best of the bunch by a significant margin. They also have a compound in their rubber that keeps them supple at temperature extremes. In my 1998 A4 2.8 I replaced the Continentals (not a bad tire, but nothing fantastic) with the Sumitomos HTR4's ($67/tire 205/55-16) and the whole character of the car changed. Better steering, much better grip, including wet grip, and quieter. At tirerack there is feedback from buyers so you can get an idea how tires will perform.
    Good luck!
  • mknmkn Posts: 35
    Thanks for the initial response to my query. The 98 AUdi that I looked at today at a dealers is priced at $22900. The problems that I noticed with it are that it has a whole lot of scratches on it,the tail light on the right is cracked,the leather is a yellowish white, the carpets and interior are deep blue and the exterior is a metallic deep blue. It has 29K on it. The dealer says he would give it for 22500 but that is it. He said that they tried to buff it but the scratches won't go away and that it would take at least $800-1000 to fix everything. And then the engine check light came on and stayed on. He said that they would take care of it since it appeared to have come on due to one of the many not-so-significant reasons. The car has 29K on it and that could be a problem or it would have a fuel cap that needed resetting. I am a bit worried but with low miles on the car, it did not look like it was a terrible buy. Please, could you advise me on the best course of action? I have recently seen a whole bunch of A6s that I tried out and this did not seem to be too bad. But then when you are in the market for a car, only previous /current owners of the model can best see the deal from another perspective and throw any light on it.Thanks
  • mknmkn Posts: 35
    Thanks for the initial response to my query. The 98 AUdi that I looked at today at a dealers is priced at $22900. The problems that I noticed with it are that it has a whole lot of scratches on it,the tail light on the right is cracked,the leather is a yellowish white, the carpets and interior are deep blue and the exterior is a metallic deep blue. It has 29K on it. The dealer says he would give it for 22500 but that is it. He said that they tried to buff it but the scratches won't go away and that it would take at least $800-1000 to fix everything. And then the engine check light came on and stayed on. He said that they would take care of it since it appeared to have come on due to one of the many not-so-significant reasons. The car has 29K on it and that could be a problem or it would have a fuel cap that needed resetting. I am a bit worried but with low miles on the car, it did not look like it was a terrible buy. Please, could you advise me on the best course of action? I have recently seen a whole bunch of A6s that I tried out and this did not seem to be too bad. But then when you are in the market for a car, only previous /current owners of the model can best see the deal from another perspective and throw any light on it.Thanks
  • lime52lime52 Posts: 2
    First, a note of thanks to those who replied to my earlier questions. I have learned a great deal, which will ultimately lead to the desired end result...an A6 2.7t at a fair lease rate.

    My questions:

    In Chicago27t1's response to my original post he mentioned the invoice price. Where did the invoice price come from? Are options on the vehicle included in the invoice, or are they added at another point.

    In today's conversation with the sales person he was definitely pushing a 39 month lease with $1,750 down and 10k miles per year. Last week there was $0 down which makes me somewhat suspicious. I find it curious that Audi does not post their lease specials on their site, but I digress.

    The dealer quoted an MSRP of $45,175 and a cap cost of $42,390. The Money Factor was .00139 (3.3%). Last week it was 2.9% yet another inconsistency. The residual ranged from $24,846 at 10k miles per year to $23,491 at 15k miles per year.

    Here are my calculations:

    I assumed an invoice of $35,894 which came from the Edmunds site which excludes options. I multiplied this by .025 (assuming i can negotiate a 2.5% over invoice deal). This gave me my baseline cost of $36,791 to work from. I used a residual of 52% which I arrived at by dividing the residual numbers provided by the dealer and dividing that by the the MSRP provided by the dealer. $23,491/$45,175 = 52%.

    Next for the CT tax I took the basline cost $36,791-$23,491(residual)= $13,300 *.06 = $798.

    So following the formula from post # 1541 the lease payment would be as follows:

    Net cap cost = $36,791 + $798 - $1,750 = $35,839

    So the monthly depreciation would be the net cap cost $35,839 - $23,491 (residual)/ 39 months = $316.61.

    The monthly finance payment would be the net cap cost $35,839 + $23,491 = $59,330 * .00139 (the money factor) = $82.46

    The monthly total, if I did this correctly would be $316.61 + $82.46= $399.07

    This sounds incredibly inexpensive for a car of this quality which leads me to believe there may be an error in one of my asumptions. Any assistance from the finance experts in the crowd would be very much appreciated.

    I intend to fax a letter to several dealerships in the area and see who will be willing to do the deal. I'm ready to buy as soon as I get a dealer to agree.

    Thanks again for the help.
  • mknmkn Posts: 35
    Thanks for the initial response to my query. The 98 AUdi that I looked at today at a dealers is priced at $22900. The problems that I noticed with it are that it has a whole lot of scratches on it,the tail light on the right is cracked,the leather is a yellowish white, the carpets and interior are deep blue and the exterior is a metallic deep blue. It has 29K on it. The dealer says he would give it for 22500 but that is it. He said that they tried to buff it but the scratches won't go away and that it would take at least $800-1000 to fix everything. And then the engine check light came on and stayed on. He said that they would take care of it since it appeared to have come on due to one of the many not-so-significant reasons. The car has 29K on it and that could be a problem or it would have a fuel cap that needed resetting. I am a bit worried but with low miles on the car, it did not look like it was a terrible buy. Please, could you advise me on the best course of action? I have recently seen a whole bunch of A6s that I tried out and this did not seem to be too bad. But then when you are in the market for a car, only previous /current owners of the model can best see the deal from another perspective and throw any light on it.Thanks
  • Your comments make me nervous and I'm fearless -- seriously. If you are NOT going to buy one of these cars in CASH, it seems to me that the lease payment on a new 2002 A4 would be no more, and possibly less. Why not just lease a new car and leave your concerns and someone else's troubles on the dealer's lot?

    Just a thought.
  • Get an extended warranty, if at all possible, Audis (and frankly most European cars) are breathtakingly expensive to maintain and fix after warranty.
  • The "Hunter" on-car rotor turner is "in the house." My rotors will be heated, turned while hot and then a driving test will occur on Thursday August 16th. If this doesn't work, new rotors.

    For those of you following this or with similar brake rotor problems on your 2000 or 2001 S4, A6 2.7T, 4.2 or A8's, I will keep you posted.

    I am still pleased with the way this is being handled, if not the brakes themselves.

    For those new to this saga -- my brake rotors on my 2000 and now my 2001 A6 4.2 make a shuddering or purring sound and feel -- as if they are warped. Audi has, in total, replaced my rotors 5 times -- no charge no questions asked. I currently have 12,000 miles on my now 9 month old 2001 A6 4.2 and the car has had two sets of front rotors already.

    The symptom has become more prevalent in the past 10 days, so I am hopeful that that fact alone will make the results of the cure easy to ascertain. If they put another set of rotors on the car, that is OK too, but I would rather they just go out and buy a set of brembo cross drilled OEM replacements and be done with it. But other than the time cost to me -- which, frankly, has been minimal -- this has been an adventure, a confusing (why would they spend all that money on replacing the parts over and over when they could just go get some "good ones"?) adventure.

    I can't wait to get into a 2003 S4 or S6 -- which I am convinced will have "new and improved" factory original brakes.
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