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Audi A6

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  • dre_jdre_j Posts: 15
    Talking about winter tires has me wondering. My 2002 A6 4.2 is not expected until late November. I have no idea what tires will be on the car. I prefer the conti sport to the P6000 because of the road noise. I'm wondering if the conti sport is a softer tire that can get you through a "mild" winter? (The kind of weather Mark describes)

    Otherwise, I'll have an immediate investment to make for new Tires/Rims before January.
  • I also replaced the stock Pirellis with the Yoko AVS dBs. I have had great luck with them in the rain, but I'm going to use Dunlop Winter M2 tires for the winter. I go up into the NH mountains and this should give me piece of mind.
  • morphiemorphie Posts: 94
    The winter tire discussion is almost as zesty as the CR dialogue, but a bit more civil.

    My understanding of the difference in "performance", "all season" and "winter" ( I am not a tire engineer) is as follows:

    High performance rubber is designed to work within a defined set of parameters, i. e. dry and wet conditions. Their rubber compounds and tread patterns do not encompass characteristics which allow them to be optimized for low temperature or ice/snow conditions. These variables are simply not part of the original design specs. Give them a dry or wet road, within their optimum temperature range, and they are happy campers.

    "All Season" tires are an interesting compromise. My understanding is that in order to "qualify" for this appellation, the tread design must merely have the requisite open area, thus making them perform a bit better in snow or slush. While some all season tires may be designed to perform somewhat better in winter conditions, as compared to others of their class, I am not competent to address that issue.

    True "winter" tires (with the mountain/snow flake emblem) are every bit as much the specialist as their high performance "summer" cousins. This is not merely a result of tread design; the chemical composition of the rubber allows the tire to remain flexible at extremely low temperatures, thus permitting the tire to retain a greater percentage of its traction. In some cases, certain "Blizzaks" for example, an initial percentage of the tread is more sacrificial than is normally the case, again allowing the tire to maintain a significant degree of traction. The bottom line is: if you wish a tire that will give you the greatest traction, in the most adverse conditions, a "specialist" is the only choice. That is not to say that a particular all season tire cannot give good performance in the right climate (Cincinnati, maybe?). You simply cannot mimic this performance by searching for an all season or performance tire which has a "softer" compound.

    A word on "quattro" and traction. All wheel drive does not yield additional traction; it apportions what you have. If you have none, you go no where. Given the right circumstances, an Audi will have just as much trouble getting up a hill as a rwd.

    One of the most fascinating articles I have read was the Car and Driver or Road & Track (sorry, I do not remember which), wherein a fwd Audi was compared to a quattro, along with a Mercedes, with and without all wheel drive (4 matic). The test was conducted with and without snows. The single biggest difference was the addition of dedicated snow tires. In a combination of tests: braking, cornering, acceleration, etc., the fwd or rwd with snows was superior to either the quattro or 4 matic. By a small, but noticeable margin, the all wheel drive vehicles, with snows, had the best results.

    My advice is: if you deal with ice or snow to any significant degree, purchase four (4) snow tires. If your climate is moderate, the choice is much less clear cut.
  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    Mike's very detailed and excellent post expands upon my understanding. The only point I would phrase differently concerns different drivetrains ability to deal with low traction. As Mike points out, zero traction is the same for any configuration, but if all are given the same tires, and some traction, AWD will provide more motive force than RWD or FWD. But for sure, tires are the biggest single determinant.

    Concerning Conti's vs. Pirelli's, my understanding is that AoA puts what they want on them. These are both summer high performance tires that only come with the sport package. Unless you're in the Deep South, I wouldn't want these tires on my car. Though Mark correctly pointed out that in most case it's possible to drive the car, I personally would find the window of safety reduced in the winter to an unacceptable level.
  • Even with quattro -- the AoA sport tire selections are best in winter when sung to the tune, "Slip Slidin' Away." If I lived north of Cincinnati, I would probably go the winter tire route and summer tire route -- the all seasons in Cincinnati, so far, seem to be a very good compromise -- but remember the Yok's are Ultra High Performance all seasons which according to TireRack appears to be different than just "normal" all season tires. I suspect they will not be as good as normal all season tires.

    Now to comment by sharing what I saw at the Audi museum in Ingolstadt.

    Audi has set up a display of three model TT's -- one is RWD, one is FWD and one is, you guessed it, quattro.

    The three TT's are on an incline that visually appears to be identical -- as if it is the hypotenuse of a right angle triangle. To show the traction capabilities you push a button which immediately starts the TT's "up the hill" -- about one fourth of the way up the hill the first car stops and the rear wheels spin on the "road" (this is the RWD TT); then about one third the way up the hill the second car stops and the front wheels begin to spin on the road; then well over half way up the road the quattro stops and all four wheels begin to spin. The explanation given as I recall is that pushing is not as good as pulling but that both pushing and pulling is the best.

    The text indicates that there is not "more" traction -- as everything about the cars and the hill and the road is identical (except which wheels are driven) -- but that when the total available traction (motive force) is distributed over the four wheels, the car can "go further up the hill."

    The point, without regard to its true everyday applicability is powerful -- under identical circumstances the quattro can keep on going much further than either rear or front wheel drive.

    I have, with Summer Tires (fool that I was), driven up a hill in Cincinnati (the seven hills of Cincinnati) after a fresh snow fall and passed both front and rear wheel drive cars in my quattro (a 1995 S6 at the time). The only other vehicles that would go up the hill were SUV's.

    The incident that finally convinced me to switch tires was, to my embarassment, when I got stuck in my own FLAT driveway after a particularly heavy (and rare) Cincinnati snowstorm. Perhaps all seasons would not have helped either, who knows?

    Now that I have used all season tires I will --- based on where I live --- not even attempt to go through winter on summer tires.
  • mbnut1mbnut1 Posts: 403
    I also live in Cincinnati and my '98 A4 quattro has never had anything but the Dunlop sport suspension tires. I think some people get into trouble with the quattro cars because they fail to recognize that when it gets slippery out you need to slow down.
    The only time I had a problem was in Pittsburgh during an ice storm and everyone else was doing periouttes as well. The interesting thing was I was having trouble getting the car to stop going down hill and I managed to get it to do a 180 and went right up the hill.
    Having shared my experience I agree with advice that in climates where you spend more time in bad weather conditions it is advisable even with quattro to switch away from the high performance sport tires to something more winter oriented.
  • I just had the Audi oem front and rear stabilizer bars installed on my non-sport 2001 A6 4.2. I didn't get the sport package originally because I would need the jaws of life to get out of those sport seats. While ride quality has remained the same (obviously softer than the sport ride), the handling improvement, especially when changing lanes or cornering, is incredible. This was an easy, relatively affordable improvement that is invisible from the outside.
  • wbreauxwbreaux Posts: 33
    I was just in an Audi showroom today and saw a car with a 2.4Quattro designation. The wheels and tires looked like a 4.2. We asked the salesperson and he said it was a 4.2, and shrugged when we pointed right to it and told him it said 2.4. Could the numbers have been put on backwards or is there some other explanation? I thought I saw a comment of a similar nature on this or another chatroom a while back but can't remember the answer.

    BTW, the dealership still had '01 2.7Ts on their lot.
  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    I think there may be a 2.4 TDI that isn't sold in this country. But I don' think it has the 4.2 body treatment. My best guess is that the numbers were reversed. Strange the Germans would ship it that way. Wonder if anyone messed with it at the port?
  • datadogdatadog Posts: 27
    Here we go - I've been negotiating for an '02 2.7 loaded with everything but nav system. They are basically at $2,000 over invoice. I have offered $1,500 over invoice. There are some considerable obfuscating factors like my trade-in ('98 A4 2.8Q loaded with 5-speed and 81K at $13,500), a customer loyalty incentive, and $800 worth of shipping from NJ to VA. But what do you think?
  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    $2K over isn't bad this time of year. I paid $1700 over this past January. Some people have said they've ordered cars for $1K, but that will vary by dealer and region. If you don't want to pay the extra $500, all you can do is walk away, and see if they call you. I don't understand how the other factors you mention should bear upon what markup you agree to pay. My understanding is that you'll never do well on a trade-in, and selling it privately will net you more money. (But with more hassle.) $800 sounds steep for shipping, but I've never looked into it.
  • To Datadog, can you name the dealer? My local dealer in the NY-LI area is unmoved from a 5K mark-up over invoice. Thanks in advance.
  • I ended up at $1,800 over invoice, and I'm in effect using the $800 loyalty incentive for the shipping from NJ. As far as $800 for shipping it is probably in line considering they are transporting a single car. I shipped a '62 Lincoln Convertible from Virginia to LA for $1,700, but they had a truck full. The $13,500 for the A4 doesn't seem to be too far out of whack, and I surely don't want to try to sell it myself.

    Has anyone seen at any dealers a 2.7T with the six-speed? I'm still having some reservations about the tip, but I'm justifying it with the following: it really is pretty much fun with the steering wheel mounted shift buttons; my wife can drive it, better resale, and to be happy with the 6 speed I think I would end up having to put in a short shift kit. I couldn't find a six-speed anyway.

    mario - based on the numbers I've been working with 5K over invoice is over sticker too. Unless you want to drive (fly) to Virginia I don't know how much the local dealer could help, but with that kind of mark-up you could justify the expense.

    I am supposed to pick the car up next Wednesday. I have to drive to Philadelphia on Mon-Tues, thought I would put the miles on the A4.
  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    I don't know how close you are to North NJ, but there's a dealer in Paramus named Jack Daniels. While I bought a car from a local dealer, they had quoted $1100 compared to the $1700 I paid. They do volume, and I know that for '01 quite a few buyers got good prices from them. It's a lot closer than Virginia. You might want to give them a call, and see what's going on.
  • datadog - I think you got a pretty good deal on the car. That sounds about where I settled for my '01 in February. I had a tough time finding 6 speeds then, too. A few dealers had one. One dealer was using an '00 w/6 speed as a demo. My dealer (Park Audi in Lawrence, MA) was excellent. He suggested that he would look around for what I wanted and call when he found it. A week later he called to say he found what I was looking for except for the color (Cashmere Grey) which I hadn't considered, or even looked for when I was shopping. He "shopped" around the northeast (metro NY and north) and was having the car shipped at his own risk directly from the unloading dock (the car was in customs) to his site instead of the dealer it was destined for. About a week or 10 days after that he called to say he had the car and would hold it for me until I could come by. (Still no deposit). The following Saturday I drove over and made an offer. We agreed on the price, I left a deposit, and was gone in less than 20 minutes. A few days later I went back to complete the deal and drive away. On a two tier scale the equipment was more important to me than the color so I went with for it. Very glad I did. Very happy with the color.
  • After negotiating price on '02 4.2 Crystal blue metallic some 3+ weeks ago my dealer found and put a hold on said car.I've got the VIN,the dealer has my deposit and AoA has my car presumably in port.Very frustrating to say the least.
    Can't wait to make the switch from GS400 to an A6.
  • I understand. Visited Schaumburg Audi near Chicago this AM. My GS400 (99) lease is up in May. I want a 4.2 loaded ($55,535 sticker) in either Crystal Blue/Platinum, Silver/Platinum or Pearlescent White/Ebony. They said if I truly wanted a 4.2A6 "loaded" I'd need to order in December, to make sure it made the January order so I'd have it late May. Interesting, today (11/3) the A6 4.2 residuals are pegged at 56%, with the short wheelbase A8 at 46%!!

    Cockpit seems more snug than the GS400, but I think the back is a little roomier. Wish they had the Ashton Gray on the 4.2 as opposed to the S6 Avant.
  • My wife's new A6 is just about to hit the 2,000 mile mark. I am pleased to report that we have experienced no problems, with the exception of a need to re-balance a wheel due to a thrown weight. This is a significant improvement over her previous A6 (1999). Further, even though she enjoyed her prior A6, she feels that the 2002 handles better, is quieter, undeniably faster and more "solid" feeling. There you have it: expert analysis, based upon extensive personal experience.

    She also appears to be more enamored of the vehicle than she is of me. C'est la vie.
  • gs4rx3gs4rx3 Posts: 25
    I need your help. I just noticed tonight that the open storage space under the armrest in my '00 4.2 has no tray in it. I am fairly confident it had a tray previously. Now it is hard plastic with a couple holes I can see through to some bolts. Does the tray come out easily? Is it just plastic? I'm worried that the car wash employees may have heisted it. Why anyone would want it beats me. Last, any thoughts on what it costs to replace it?

    Side note: good to see other GS400 owners are switching to quattro. You'll especially love it during the next 5 months!
  • gs4rx3gs4rx3 Posts: 25
    Just wondering...I posted the previous questions almost 4 days ago and haven't seen any responses. Where is everyone?
  • I've been having fun doing perfomance upgrades to my 4.2 (all somewhat invisible). The car gets better every day.
  • I took delivery of a '02 2.7T tip with the sport package and all the goodies on Tuesday. What a car. Ming blue with beige interior. It's a great color combination, but I know that I am setting myself up with a lot of work to keep both the inside and outside in shape. With the sport package and the Continental SportContact 2's it is a totally different feel than the non-sport '98 A4 that I had. You can certainly feel the road, but I wouldn't begin to say it is harsh. With only 150 miles I just haven't pushed it in any manner yet.

    So far the tiptronic is taking some getting used to. In the regular automatic mode it is as good as any I have ever driven. In the tip mode some of the time I am reaching for the shift lever and others using the steering wheel buttons. I have not even used the sport mode yet. It's just going to take some time to figure out what to use and when. With the tip you can either be in regular or sport automatic mode, or if you are in tip mode you can shift two different ways. I obviously didn't have all those choices with a 5-speed.

    The xenons are unbelievable, especially with all the deer running around here this time of year. I never would have noticed with regular headlights, but now I feel the need to upgrade the front fogs.

    Minor gripes - EVERYTHING is lit up red at night. Every switch, knob, button in the car. I really don’t like the billboard in the instrument cluster telling you to put your foot on the brake before shifting into gear (anyone know how to disable that?). It already has the "foot" light on the shifter. Also, the interior footwell lights only come on in the car on the side that you open the door. But like I said - minor gripes. Does the steering wheel seem small?? I sure liked the 3-spoke sport wheel in my A4.

    I really can't wait to put a few more miles on this so I can push it around. How many would you all suggest before I feel free to run it out?

    Also, the summer high performance tires need to come off really soon. What do you all like better – the Yoko avs db’s or the Dunlop SP5000’s? I don’t need a real winter tire – I have a truck if it gets really nasty. At first I didn’t like the BBS wheels, but they have grown on me in the last few days. I still may get a set of Ronal R-28’s to run with the all seasons.

    One more question – that beige carpet needs some all season mats – the audi store online or clair?

    I've been reading here and audiworld considering some upgrades. Tires first by necessity, but then who knows? The sport supsension takes care of a lot of the upgrades that are considered first.
  • Sounds like a great car. What was the pricing if you don't mind? We're looking at a '02 3.0 with all options other than nav for about $2k over invoice. Based on other postings I believe that is reasonable but any input would be appreciated.
  • But, since I haven't used them in "weather" I will not vouch for their winter prowess -- they are supposed to be good for places (like southern Ohio) where the winters from a snowfall standpoint are mild.

    My tire store guy says check out the Falken's Zeiz All season high performance.

    Beats me.
  • After what seems like eons,my Crystal blue 4.2 finally found its way to the dealer and will be flatbedded to my doorstep this coming Monday.
    Hope to share my first impressions after reality sets in.
  • I, too took delivery of a 2.7T sport on 10/15. Now have 1150 miles on it. I think the book says to baby it until you get over 1k miles on it. I was exceptionally careful with the brakes and the throttle, and it seems to have paid off. The thing will fly, if it won't talk, but be patient with the foot for a while. I did replace the Conti Contact 2's with Yoko AVS dB's and am very pleased, altho I had to almost give away the Conti's (got only $40 each for them!). They are definitely quieter and do traction really well in a rainstorm we had in South Central Indiana about three weeks ago.

    I picked up the car the evening before our moving van came with a huge amount of furniture to our 'new' home in Indiana, so I didn't get to go to bed with the manual, but have looked up stuff in it. There's a lot to be learned about all the features.

    Mine is Amulet Red with Ecru interior. That's my only complaint. The Red is too red compared to the Tornado Red from last year, and the Ecru is lighter than I would like. Otherwise, this is more fun, secure, quiet, and thrilling than any car I've ever had, even 911s. I absolutely love it.

    jk
  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    Beg to differ. Think Amulet is MUCH nicer than Tornado Red. Car looks much richer. Dealers had trouble moving the Tornado. Have only seen pix of ecru, but thought it looked great and would be smashing with Amulet. Got vanilla/royal (very light) in my silver car, and while I had my doubts at first, it keeps looking better and better. Also, not ANOTHER sivler/black.

    I think Clair for mats. Faster, cheaper.
  • I talked with Ralph at Northland and he told me the story of how you picked up your car. I think it would be a good story to share with the group. I can't do it justice.

    When I heard it, I thought it was a unique way to pick up a new car.

    And, if Ralph isn't the horizontal salesperson, I don't know who is. I have to remind him that now is the time to ask for the sale -- he is sooo low pressure.

    Anyway, if I may press upon you to share your story. . . .
  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    Jim, just checked AoA site for '02 interior colors. Saw beige and vanilla/ebony as '02 choices for Amulet. I suspect you got beige, is this correct? Think it looks wonderful with the Amulet. Also really like the Amulet over vanilla/ebony. Think both are really sharp, distinctive choices.
  • Yes, picking the car up was a real saga. I had sold my Toyota Land Cruiser a couple weeks earlier, and rented a rent a wreck for the few days before I went to Cincy.

    Having been a newcomer to the community, I didn't have the guts to ask someone I hardly knew to take me to Cincy. My spouse was in Texas, loading the van to bring all our furniture, etc. to Indiana, so I was rather alone.

    I couldn't get the rent a wreck guy to take me the 100 miles to Cincy, Enterprise was going to charge me an arm and a leg, so I TOOK A GREYHOUND! I went from Columbus, IN to Indy, (very interesting bus station!), and then on to Cincy. I couldn't get the bus driver and Ralph to figure an easy place for him to pick me up to avoid his having to go all the way downtown.

    I'm sure I appeared to have been a Beverly Hillbilly to the dealership, but my money was just as good as the next guy's. I was a bit amused myself. My wife used to broker cars in Texas, and suggested I have Ralph pick me up or deliver the car to Indiana, but I didn't want anyone else to drive my car first!

    He came down to the station in an A8 with 18k miles on it. I was so impressed with it, I almost asked to lease it instead of the A6! It was so luxurious.
    Meanwhile, I'm on my cell phone trying to get the best deal on a lease from my credit union. The car was so new they didn't have residuals, and kept calling me. Finally, Audi Finance gave me a deal I couldn't refuse. Ralph was great thruout the whole ordeal, even showed me his '92 911 with 30k, giving me the opportunity to buy it instead. I was tempted, but wanted the luxury of the A6.

    To top it all off, I drove out of the dealership into the late afternoon setting sun onto unfamiliar hiways with a new car. I was very anxious 'cause I couldn't read the overhead signs on the freeway with the sun right into my eyes.

    Don't get me wrong, timcar, I love the car. The darkness of the red will show more dirt, and the Ecru's lightness will, too. I had planned to use a leather treatment to sort of 'seal' the leather from fine dirt, but it still hasn't been done. You can see a patina of dirt in the driver's seat already, but with the move, both Becky and I moving from our respective places into a 'new' house, combined with the responsibilities of my job, I just haven't done it yet.

    BTW, I ordered the Audi WeatherTech type mats. They cost 108.95 delivered, but are much better than regular weathertech mats, and the clay color is quite nice in the car. AND, the car is a thrill to drive!

    jk
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