Audi A6

timcar · June 2002

Mike, I think what you're experiencing is probably unrelated to the 4.2 drivetrain, irrespective what you've been told by your dealer. I've been reading and posting here and at AudiWorld for a couple of years, and the 4.2 has probably been the LEAST problematic drivetrain. I have an '01 2.7T, and also have a frequent significant hesitation if I pop the throttle from a standstill. So does everyone else that I've heard from with either the 2.7T or 4.2. And it may also exist on the 2.8 and 3.0, though I don't recall specifically hearing about it.

Many people have attributed it to turbo-lag on the 2.7T, but I'm pretty sure it's the product of the throttle-by-wire, perhaps interacting with the Tip. I.e., someone programmed it to avoid having a car lunge forward if someone inadvertently blips the gas pedal. I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't an Audi AG or AoA fix to concerns related to unintended acceleration fiasco of 10 or so years ago.

I'm not suggesting you shouldn't feel however you feel about it, but I've learned to live with it. I find if I anticipate it, and ROLL ON the power, rather than stabbing it, I can usually get most of what I want. However, I can understand how you feel, as the thought has crossed my mind as to what might happen if I was trying to quickly merge into traffic ahead of a nice big semi and I wasn't able to manage this problem.

nyccarguy · June 2002

I'm back from my short weekend trip (Thursday night to Saturday morning) and I have to say how impressed I am with this car ('02 A6 3.0Q).

I drove the car up to New Hampshire Thursday night heading directly into the terrential rainstorm we were having here in the Northeast. The car was surefooted and amazingly stable on the highway at speeds around 70mph in the rain with high winds. The wipers work very well. The seats are extremely comfortable for a long drive. I definitely felt like I could drive for another couple of hours. The 3.0 engine is buttery smooth and gets up to speed. While I didn't hit the century mark, I did look down a few times amazed that I was going over 80mph in the pouring rain. Changing lanes on the highway was a breeze (around town, the steering is still way too light for my tastes).

timcar: I find the same thing, that if you ease on the gas, the car takes off nice and smooth. My mother who tries to "stab" it sometimes complains that she thinks there is something wrong with the transmission (the hesitation).

mpyles1 · June 2002

I've also noticed the hesitation upon quick throttle jabs in my 2002 4.2. However, the 2002 model has a new interactive shift program that moves the shift points up during aggressive driving. According to the owner's manual, the driver is supposed to engage this more aggressive mode by a "quick stab" to the accelerator. I haven't yet figured out how to do this without bogging the acceleration down. (It was much easier on my last car . . . there was a button by the shift lever than turned the aggressive shift program on and off.) Too much technology?

texlaw1 · June 2002

I see people saying the 2.7t is a "great lease deal", what does that car lease for currently. Looking at 36 or 48 mos lease, 15k miles. Thanks in advance.

markcincinnati · June 2002

My dealer loaner while my 2001 A6 4.2 is in the shop on a warranty repair is a 2002 A6 3.0 with the tip trans (Quattro). Putting the gear in D (which stands for dud) is not much fun. But if the A6 4.2 for 2002 has this transmission that is in my loaner, well -- put that puppy into S (which stands for slick) -- and the car should still go through all the gears but it is not all hell bent on upshifting "early." A very nice touch.

My '01 has the manual shift gate which is OK, but the S mode on the 2002 that I currently have been loaned is quite impressive.

Assuming you have this transmission, give S a try!

audimike · June 2002

No this isn't just a CA problem. The regional staff has told me that it is a combination of the programming on the ECM, driving conditions and the memory function for the throttle. There is not fix at this time and they have told me they are handling the A6 and A8 customers with problems, one at a time. 4.2's are relatively rare cars, but Newport Imports at this point has 5 that have the exact same problem. Rolling on the throttle progressively or "nailing it" doesn't seem to make a difference. I have tried every type of throttle movement possible and it still malfunctions. The only way to overcome it is to come to a complete stop and then re-accelerate. Obviously this is not a survivable option on an I-5 Freeway onramp in Los Angeles or when you are already in an intersection with someone approaching at 50 miles an hour. It's really too bad because the car is flawless in all other respects. Unfortunately it's like dating a supermodel who might stab you in the middle of the night.

cdnpinhead · June 2002

of Cincinnati fame the board authority of all things Audi. . .especially 4.2 related?

I'm sure his comments are anxiously awaited by us all.

timcar · June 2002

Thanks for the elaboration, Mike. Sounds different from what I and many other 2.7T, 4.2, etc., owners experience with lag from rest. I don't doubt what you're saying, but I can't recall hearing of it before with the 4.2 or any of the other drivetrains. Sorry for my skepticism concerning your dealer's comments. They may be 100% accurate, but I've heard so many stories of ill informed and misleading comments made by dealers over customer dissatisfaction that I'm skeptical of any dealer's comments when they don't jibe with other information I've received. But your dealer's comments that the problem concerns the software does make sense. An interaction between the ECM and the T-B-W also makes sense as the source of such a problem. But of course, that begs several issues: First, if it's a software problem, they could just fix and/or reprogram the software. Secondly, if it's a software problem, EVERY 4.2 should have it. And despite your dealer's assertion that it's a wide flung problem among 4.2's, I've not heard of it before. I know Mark has a 4.2 here, but I don't know who else might have one. On AudiWorld, there are dozen's of 4.2 owners, pretty much all of whom seem pretty happy, and none of whom I can recall describing a problem where the car looses power while underway, and becomes non-responsive to the gas pedal. I don't know if you also visit AudiWorld, but you might also want to share your experiences there, and see who might have had, or has some specific knowledge concerning your problem. Good luck

http://www.audiworld.com/forum/index.html

markcincinnati · June 2002

I wish I had any comments that could help you, or even an opinion or word of comfort. . .

mpyles1 · June 2002

My 2002 does have the "S" selection on the shift lever, and it really does spike the performance of the car. The shift points are much more aggressive, and the car steps up from being fun to drive to become downright thrilling.

However, using the "S" setting shuts out the overdrive. My long drive to work is a rapidly alternating mix of runs up and down hills through twisties and long straightaways. The "S" setting is great through the twisties, but it unnecessarily holds fourth gear on the straightaways. So I am constantly shifting back and forth between "S" and "D" if I want to avoid excessive gas consumption.

Although the Audi is a much better car than the Jaguar S-Type I had before, the Jag's "S" feature was more convenient. It dialed in more aggressive shift points but did not lock out overdrive . . . so it was basically a "set and forget" feature.

Since the Audi has Tiptronic when you're in the mood to pay constant attention to shift points, to require the same when using the "S" selector seems redundant. There is always the alternative of using the "quick stab" feature of the accelerator pedal to engage the aggressive shift program temporarily . . . but that causes the engine to bog momentarily which was, of course, the observation someone made that got this whole discussion going.

bondguy1 · June 2002

I have the 2002 A6 3.0 CVT (without Quattro)...love the car. I never had a real European car before. It shifts unbelievably smooth. I know this may be a silly question, but, with the Tiptronic transmission, if I am driving without it in the automatic shift mode, can I at any speed throw the lever to the right and into whatever gear seems appropriate? Obviously, I wouldn't put it into first at 60 MPH, but I was wondering if this could be done to downshift manually. Or, do I have to be stopped to go from automatic shift to tiptronic? Thanks.

JBaumgart · June 2002

I can't believe the dealer did not show you this when you took delivery, but to answer your question: Yes, with the Tiptronic transmission, you can throw the lever to the right at any speed, and it won't have any immediate effect - you'll stay in the same gear that you're already in, until you decide to upshift or downshift. That's for the Tiptronic - I AM NOT SURE about the CVT transmission; maybe others who have it can comment further. My guess though is that if it has the same gate as the conventional Tiptronic, it would work the same in this respect.

markcincinnati · June 2002

I thought the S setting at 65 mph showed identical RPM's to the D setting -- I do not have the manual, so I could be wrong, but I could have sworn that S ultimately did upshift to 5th gear.

Any others care to comment?

Thanks.

gtr49 · June 2002

After 4 trips to dealer (22 days in shop in past 3 months) and still having problems, I'm ready to unload my 01 2.7T, but need to minimize financial hit. Is now a good time to trade (for 01 or ?02) or try to hold out until 03's arrive? Audi won't help since I purchased it used with 16K miles even though still under warranty (25K). Would consider a 4.2 but have seen recent concerns about severe throttle lag problems? Advice and suggestions greatly appreciated.

nyccarguy · June 2002

you're going to take a bath sooner or later, might as well get it over with before the 2003s start rolling off the dock. What's wrong with the car?

markcincinnati · June 2002

My problems with my 2 4.2's were brake prolems. I have had no throttle related problems, other than the thing just loves to accelerate and go fast. . .

mpyles1 · June 2002

My throttle lag problem is not "severe". In fact, I would hesitate even to call it a problem. It's simply that there is a momentary pause while the computer checks the pedal movement against its shiftpoint maps -- noticeable and occasionally slightly annoying, but certainly not a safety problem. And it disappears completely when in "S" mode.

To markcincinnati . . . actually, the owner's manual states that the "S" setting locks out overdrive. A friend of mine has a BMW 540 with sport package, and the Audi in "S" mode responds very much like his car to throttle inputs at all engine speeds. Interestingly, BMW does not use overdrive. While he has a 5-speed automatic, 5th gear is a 1:1 ratio. Perhaps Audi did this to mimic the BMW responsiveness?

audimike · June 2002

The Audi regional service manager for California is actually one of the individuals who told me that the problem is real, Audi is aware of it, but does not have a fix. He initially thought the problem could be resolved by reprogramming the chip, but ran into legal and logistical problems. The 2002's have the new shift pattern and also seem to be immune from this problem. If the reprogrammed chip is put in a 2000 or 2001 the shift pattern will no longer match the existing PRDNL pattern on the center consol, creating huge liability problems. Anyway it's too bad because I'm having a difficult time finding anything else that drives as well as a 4.2. I also have a Lexus GS 300 which is smooth but has no soul and a new BMW 330ci that is real kick but kind of small. I have driven several new Infiniti G35's and the driving dynamics a really pretty darn good. Thanks for the comments everyone!

audimike · June 2002

I'm not sure where you live but the 2002 T's are leasing for $499/mo in California. I think it's a 36 month lease with something less than $3000 out of pocket. I could be wrong on the details but the $499 is correct. Loaded A-4's with the 3.0 are 399/mo.

rayainsw · June 2002

You might try test driving the Passat W8. I drove a couple of A6 2.7 TTs and a 4.2 before buying my W8 - and I believe they drive with similar 'dynamics'.

[Yes, I acknowledge bias, since I bought one!]

No acceleration hesitation - in my first 1,500 miles . . .

Even without the promised Sport Package - it certainly meets my definition of having 'soul'!

Cheers,
- Ray
Who does not mean to say that the W8 = a 4.2 A6 - -just that the driving dynamics are also 'pretty darn good' . . .

markcincinnati · June 2002

The 2002 A6 quattro I was loaned was a 3.0. I drove it 95% of the time in S mode and once or twice on the freeway at a speed of about 65 I moved it from S to D and the RPM's stayed the same. I "assumed" it had finally upshifted to 5th in S mode.

I really liked driving the car in S mode, really disliked it in D mode -- it was never in the right gear for the power curve. Perhaps I would LOVE the new tiptronic D and S modes in a 2.7T or 4.2.

Anyway, you are probably right, Audi (or vice versa) may have programmed the S mode to make the responsiveness more Bimmer like

bertram60 · June 2002

Have you contacted AoA with regard to this hesitation problem? One thing your dealer is saying does not make sense. In 2000 the A8 4.2 received a revised engine, which to the best of my knowledge is NOT used in the A6. If there are problems with A8's they would have to be in vehicles prior to 2000. From what i have been told, after trying to upgrade my A8, the newer engine incorporated the S8 intake and had a different ECM, which was not upgradeable. Mark did the upgrade to his A8, and can attest to the improvements, and if I owned an A6 4.2 I might try this as well. I would assume that at lest the chip mods would work (air intake runner and box from S8 may not fit A6). While I had some issues with my A8, None were related to acceleration.

marleybarr · June 2002

In regard to Audimike experience w/A8- is it true that only 4 or 5 bodyshops in the country can work on the Aluminum-skinned car?

thanks-Max

markcincinnati · June 2002

I do not know the number that can work on an A8 with "extensive" body work needs, but it is relatively small. When I had my A8, I received a "should your A8 need body work, you will be provided an A6 during the time the A8 is at the Chicagoland authorized A8 body work facility."

I think (as in I AM NOT sure) that there is now a body shop in Cincinnati that can do "a lot of" Audi A8 and (certain parts of) Audi A6 4.2 [since the front part has an aluminum content]. I think that for extensive body work, the A8 has to be taken to a specially equipped shop -- and due to the small number of Audi A8's that even to this day are on the road, they are "not everywhere."

But 4 or 5 shops seems a bit too few.

I could be wrong. . .

mpyles1 · June 2002

I think Marleybarr is right. A car magazine that reviewed the A8 a year or so ago mentioned that major body work on an A8 could only be done in a few Audi-certified shops . . . and I do think it was a single-digit number. Audi reportedly subsidizes the repair costs, including defraying the cost of shipping the car to the repair shop, in order to keep insurance rates for the car from soaring into the stratosphere.

In the same vein, I work for a major multinational that includes car manufacturers in its customer base. Several people in my company have told me that Audi's cost to manufacture the A8 is several thousand dollars above its U.S. sticker price. Audi uses the car as a loss leader both to develop aluminum technology for more widespread applications and to vaunt Audi's technological leadership in the luxury segment. So, pricey as they are, at least from one perspective they are a real bargain.

bondguy1 · June 2002

What would a new 2002 A6 CVT without Quattro...with Premium Package, Convenience Package, and the Preferred Package lease for for 39 mos (with 15K miles) and total due at start including all taxes, first month, etc of $1,000 out of pocket go for?

markcincinnati · June 2002

Due to factors that allowed me a couple of hours over the "lunch" period today, I took a long test drive in a 2002 6spd manual allroad. Having ordered a 2003 allroad and finding myself unable to remember the feel of the vehicle -- I had most recently tested tiptronic allroads -- I took a manual transmission car out for a spin.

I immediately got back into my A6 4.2.

The allroad feels as solid as the 4.2, it is actually quieter (road and engine noise) and, with all of 14 mile on the clock of the allroad, I can say that I do not feel I will notice the "downgrading" to 6 cylinders. I attribute this feeling to the fact that the 4.2 is tip and the allroad was a manual.

I liked it -- my only concern being the handling -- the turn in on my 4.2 is crisper. I am telling myself that 245 x 45 x 18 wheels/tires on the allroad will virtually eliminate this difference.

The allroad seems very capable as a car, as an avant and although I will probably seldom know how good it could be off road, off road too. I will not see myself coming and going either and much of the agressive looks of the 4.2 are carried over into the allroad.

It kinda makes me wonder why there aren't more of them on the road -- it seems (relatively) like a bargain (considering) and it is as luxurious as my 4.2. Of course it makes me long for an A6 4.2 with a 6spd! Even more, even more.

Anyway -- if you are in the market, ask to test drive one of these cars -- but make sure you try the stick. I bet some of the pleasure is muted by the tiptronic.

marleybarr · June 2002

Mark,
Have you thought about waiting before buying the 6 sp. Allroad for the "multitronic" Allroad?
A customer came in my store the other day driving an '02 A4 front-track CVT model. Said he loved the smoothness of this transmission but there was a slight hesitation upon take-off. He claimed the dealer told him that the "tip" transmission will be "obsolete" by the '04 model year! Obviously, this is grapevine stuff- but maybe it will get to the point where the CVT will be as good as the manual?

markcincinnati · June 2002

By the time my ordered allroad gets in, I will be down to 5 months left on my lease. Audi has a program right now, where they will pay for the last 3 months of your lease, they will certainly have at least some program which will mean I will be in my 03 allroad by Dec or Jan -- under the circumstances, I really want to shift for myself. Besides, I think I would rather have, at the moment anyway, the 6spd tiptronic that is soon to be placed in US bound Audi cars.

But, since I usually lease for rather short periods of time, I thought I would try out a stick shift allroad. I heard, too, that the allroad may have its last year of production 2004.

mariobgoode · June 2002

I doubt Audi will do that. That gimmick is technically called "dumping" under tax laws, and would subject the manufacturer to stiff tariffs and customs duties if and when they are get caught. Remember, Benz, BMW, Lexus, Infiniti, Saab, Volvo and other luxury car makers are watching each others' marketing strategies, and it will be to their advantage to point out this practice to the feds, to effectively eliminate or strangle a competitor. I would imagine Audi has legal experts working for them to ensure that this type of shenanigans don't happen, and the others have their own watchdogs checking out the competition, to prevent unfair competition. One way to get around it though would be to subsidize the production all over the world, such as by deeply underpricing the cost of materials like aluminum, so that the cost of the car anywhere in the world would be comparable to the American price. There is no law against selling goods below the cost of production, as long as it is done uniformly all over. But the shareholders might not like it if they find out and/or the gimmick does not produce results (a much higher demand) as anticipated.

timcar · June 2002

Audi is the most profitable part of VW. It provides a grossly disproportionate percentage of VW's total profit. Hard to do when you're selling under cost.

jerij79 · June 2002

Hello,

I have recently purchased a 1998 Audi A6 with 69k from an individual. My husband and I were highly impressed with the performance as well as the luxury accessories. After driving the car for only a week I have started to notice that when placed in reverse it tends to "jump" a bit. The jumping feels like when a person is about to "pop the clutch" in a standard transmission vehicle. I have noticed a couple of concerns previously posted in regard to the throttle. Do you think this could possibly be where the "jump" is coming from? Also, the owners manual mentions something about hooking your cell phone to the radio. Does anyone know what exactly I need to do to have this function work properly? Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Jeri in Little Rock

markcincinnati · June 2002

This (installation of a digital non-Audi phone) is covered in great detail on AudiWorld.Com -- pictures, diagrams, etc.

Or, you can go to your Audi dealer and have one that was meant for the car installed.

For some this is NOT an option due to their carrier -- the phone a 3watt analog phone, works great and has virtually NO dropouts. I will miss mine when my 2003 Audi with the digital phone comes in.

My analog phone wired into the stereo system and controlled by the steering wheel toggle switches has been bullet proof, safe and has excellent sound quality.

Again -- it is ANALOG -- which fundamentally means, yesterday.

timcar · June 2002

Jeri, what you're describing sounds almost like the when the idle was turned up too high. But that's acient history, and the Tip software controls many things including, I suspect, optimized throttle for engaging a gear. It doesn't sound like any throttle issue. Don't know if you had an Audi technician check out the car before you bought it, but you might want one to take a look at the tranny, just to be sure that there's not some simple maintenance that's required.

You might also want to investigate if it's still possible to purchase an extended warranty for the car. Don't know if you can do, or if so, that's it worth it, but you might want to check.

Someone on AW reported their dealer told them that next year is the year for an all new A6. Said he saw one on a trip to Germany, and it really looked good. I credit this, as it what I've guessed as the likely date for introducing a new product.

mpyles1 · June 2002

The A8 is such low volume that I doubt if selling it at a loss would seriously derail its profitability picture.

Regarding the comment about dumping laws . . . I'm no legal expert in this arena, but if dumping laws are constructed similarly to antitrust laws, Audi could probably sell a single model at a loss without running afoul of the law, since a niche model sold at a loss is not likely to unseat a competitor. It would be another matter if they did so across broad product lines (and that assuming dumping law even apply to automobiles, which I don't know).

Anyway, I cannot even guarantee the veracity of the information that the A8 sells here at a loss. As I stated, my source was a person in one of my company's businesses that supplies the auto industry.

cooper18 · June 2002

In the last three months I have spent $1700 on repairs..brakes - the rotor are good for one set of pads! Water pump $650...and the $900 oil leak is being saved for the next owner of this car...it's going off lease and has been off warranty for 5000 miles. so for those of you who haven't had a problem with the A6...I was there once too...I am now finding out they have longevity equivalent to a fruit fly

theremin · June 2002

I'm coming to the end of my 3-yr lease on a '99 A6 2.8 and I've hardly had any troubles at all. I've got 41K miles on it & have had a couple of minor electrical glitches along the way (window etc), and had the brake pads replaced at around 35K (all free of charge). Sorry to hear about the problems you've had--I don't know how many miles you've got on the car--maybe mine's about to 'hit the wall', I don't know. But based on the my first 3 yrs, I'm seriously considering getting another one.

markcincinnati · June 2002

A few years ago, being what I then thought was a fairly seasoned traveler, I mentioned to my very well seasoned traveled cousin that my wife and I were going to Zurich for a vacation. Up to that point, Italy was the most expensive country I had ever been to. My cousin's words still ring in my ears -- "Mark, if you think Italy is expensive, well Switzerland is BREATHTAKINGLY expensive." He was, of course, right. However, except for the Czech Republic and Poland, everywhere in Europe seems expensive to us Ohioans.

What does this have to do with Audi's, A6's or otherwise you might ask? Two things: #1 "if you think Audi's are expensive to maintain and repair after 4 years or 50,000 miles, well BMW's Mercedes, Jaguars and Volvos, etc. are BREATHTAKINGLY expensive;" and, #2 having personal experience with two dozen Audis and friends, relatives and co-workers who among and between them have probably had at least another two dozen, you may want to consider extended warrantees (scratch that may, make it "must consider") or you may come to the conclusion that it is "less expensive" to, in effect, "dollar cost average" your transportation expenses and NEVER keep one of these fine European cars beyond 50,000 miles and always make lease payments -- there will be no surprises and predictable costs that way. Now of course thing #2 assumes that you will drive equal to or less than 16,666 miles per year.

If you drive more than that, you must consider extended maintenance/warranty agreements and you should probably pay cash for the car, unless you can get zero or low interest rates.

I have enjoyed, thoroughly enjoyed, virtually every new Audi I have had more than the one that it replaced. They each, however, have had both maintenance and repair needs that would have been BREATHTAKINGLY expensive without the protection of the Audi advantage or my extended warranty.

Audi's, BMW's and the rest of the high end, high or higher buck European cars are, in my opinion, generally more expensive to acquire used than lease new (within the 4 year old parameter, that is). I believe -- and the ancedotal evidence on this board often supports this notion -- that one could lease a 2002 A6 for 36 months for less money than one could buy and maintain a 1998 A6. And, the 2002 A6 will be the more pleasurable and reliable (and safe) acquisition.

I do not make enough money to afford used European cars.

Just a thought. . . .

marleybarr · June 2002

Mark,
From your reports on this forum, it sounds like you have enjoyed your A6 4.2 Audi. However, had the vehicle not been under warranty, it would be very interesting to see what the "net" repair charges would have been to finally solve your brake problem?
I have calculated $1500 in repair charges (if the vehicle was out of warranty) on my 2.7T over the last 2 years and 33,000 miles. Nothing major, but like you said, these cars do cost a fortune to maintain.
The Audi dealer must have an unbelievable overhead to maintain, obviously the customer has to pay for all that!
I would not hesitate to buy a 3 year old Audi w/50,000 miles from someone like you that has fixed all the "glitches" under warranty. This should be a relatively trouble free vehicle for the next 50,000 miles at a discounted (used car) price for a vehicle that is almost like new! The trouble is that it is almost impossible to find a used Audi (for sale) at the right time from a dedicated enthusiast like yourself!

markcincinnati · June 2002

Let's see, what parts have been replace on my A6 4.2 -- I am currently on my 3rd or 4th set of front rotors, 2nd set of rear rotors, one power window motor and one entire power steering column. Also, I have had three entire sets of pads for the brakes (all four wheels). Also the blower motor in the climate control system was replaced (it squealed in the winter).

I think the steering column was around $1,400 -- the "customer price" of the Audi rotors, beats me, as do the "retail" costs of the other items -- I also have a set (the one that is on it now) of aftermarket front rotors (cross drilled) that Audi paid for. By the way, I do not think that the repairs, etc, that I have had (excluding the brake rotors) are particularly out of line (compared with my friends who have a variety of European cars).

I have always been loaned cars during repairs. I have not been horribly inconvenienced. Both the dealer and AoA have been terrific. I really like my A6 4.2. And, our experiences with our Audis (including with my rotors) has in no way diminished our loyalty to the brand and enthusiasm for the cars. As you may know, both my wife and I have ordered 2003 Audis -- she has ordered a 225HP TT coupe and I have ordered an allroad (6spd). She has four months left on her lease, which is just about right. I have ten months left on mine, and will probably "bail out" around 4 or 5 months early (hoping my allroad with an October build date will be here in December or January).

My point is (and I hope always has been) that Audis are mechanical devices, therefore imperfect. Yet, I think they are the "biggest bang for the buck" in the near (sporty) luxury and (sporty) luxury class. And, I think they are incredible cars to drive -- and even though others also do all wheel drive, I think Audi does AWD better than anyone (and that is a signifcant selling point for me -- AWD, i.e.). Nevertheless, I do think they are very expensive to repair out of warranty. However, I would also say that they are NOT more expensive to maintain than BMW's, Mercedes, etc, in fact, I think they are less expensive to fix and maintain out of warranty than other European brands (perhaps excluding VW which, after all, is very similar.)

But, without a warranty, I believe that "buying and maintaining" a three or four year old Audi is equal to or more expensive than leasing a brand new one every 30 - 36 months. Now, if you do buy a "used" Audi A6 4.2 with under 50,000 miles on it AND buy either an Audi or aftermarket warranty, wel l. . . you may beat the odds.

It just seems to me that a new Audi that leases for $500-$750+ a month (for 36 months) and is driven 16,666 miles per year (or less) will cost less than a used (3 or 4 year old) Audi that is purchased and maintained (and repaired) for the same period of time.

I thought I had beaten the odds, in 1987, when I bought a "new" (used, really) 5000 CS turbo quattro with just over 20,000 miles on it. My costs were just about the same as if I had leased a new 1989 or 1990 model (also turbo quattro) -- and when I sold the car, it had depreciated so much that I actually felt I could have put the money to better use.

Now, a friend of mine always buys young used cars and he swears it is less expensive than leasing a new car every 30 - 36 months (which is what I do). He usually does this with American cars -- I can't seem to make it work with German cars (Audis). And my friend's who have tried it with Volvos, Saabs, BMW's and Mercedes seem to end up leasing new ones rather than buying and maintaining "slightly" used ones.

The maintenance is just a killer -- and when something really breaks, well it is time for a second mortgage -- I would "prefer" a "permanent" lease payment and no surprises, which has been my "mode" since 1977.

To each his/her own as my mother says. . .

nyccarguy · June 2002

My Mother apparently had 2 nails in one of her tires on her A6 3.0Q which caused her to have a blowout. She was going rather slow on a road with some traffic and was able to pull over immediately. She whipped out the owner's manual from the glove compartment and called Audi's Roadside Assistance. At first they told her that her car wasn't registered in the computer. She had to go through much of this information over the phone with them. They came 1.5 hours later (a bit long for Friday at 11:00AM) and changed her tire with the convenient 5th wheel and full size spare (All cars should have this). She drove the car to the Audi dealer to get a replacement tire. They don't stock the Dunlops (not sure of the model) that came standard on My Mom's car. She ended up going to our local tire shop to get the new tire mounted & balanced.

marleybarr · June 2002

Mark,
AOA has really treated you well! I checked on those cross-drilled front rotors on the A6 4.2- $750 each!!!! From what you have mentioned, it sounds like atleast $5000 for parts/installation charges on that car.
I like your idea of the "perpetual" lease. A new Audi every 3 years or so covered by warranty. For those of us that are self-employed, this really makes sense from a tax point of view. Once Audi comes out with 6 speed tip and brings back a "clone" of the S4, w2.7T engine or something close, I will join the lease "club" once again.

markcincinnati · June 2002

Yes I agree with your tax statement. I have owned my company for 18+ years . . . however, I do not lease my car in my company's name, FYI.

But, regardless of the tax situation, a permanent lease payment and always driving a new or nearly new car with a known fixed cost structure, makes sense.

As the CPA's say, buy what appreciates (real estate), and rent everything else (cars).

My accountant says leasing or paying cash is the only "prudent" use of funds when it comes to cars (and no, I do not think this is a universally applicable truth, but "it works for me!")

marleybarr · June 2002

Mark,
For insurance reasons, putting the Audi in your name instead of the Co.'s name is the way to go. I have saved 20% on premiums by using this procedure!
I'm assuming that Audi will be unveiling an S4 type, w/o some of the "cladding" and summer wheels /tires that will be driveable 'year round w/o much hassle. Kind of like what they have done w/A6 4.2- using all-season tires/wheels as stock equipment on the'02 model.

amarchan · June 2002

I recently replaced the stock springs with Audi sports springs in my '01 2.7T. Since new, there was a slight shimmy at 60-65 MPH which I had attributed to the soft springs, but it's still present now. Even when new the passenger seat back would vibrate at highway speeds in the smoothest of roads. The vibration starts at 60-65 MPH and it either goes away or is less noticeable over 75MPH. I've had the tires balanced and rebalanced by the local Audi dealership, and they assure me the tires (stock Conti's) and wheels are perfectly round. Alignment has also been checked twice. Tire pressure is the same all around (35psi cold). Has anyone had any experience with out-of-round stock A6 2.7T wheels? Bad Continentals that still balance? If it is a bad wheel (or wheels), should the vibration get worse or better as speed increases? The car rides perfectly smooth at 50MPH. I'm puzzled. I tend to think it has to do with the tires, but I'd hate to go through the expense of replacing the tires and end up at square one. Any ideas?

marleybarr · June 2002

I've had the same tire"shimmy" problem at about 65 mph . I have found by increasing tire pressure to 41 psi (cold) the problem seems to diminish. The 2.7T seems to ride and handle much better (w/stock Conti's) at 40-41 psi. I have also noticed about +1 mpg dif at this psi over time.

markcincinnati · June 2002

Please be careful about over inflation -- check with dealer, tire dealer, etc.

I too overinflate, but I keep it to 110% of what the manual says. 41 seems a bit high.

nosho · June 2002

At 35K miles on my tires my 2.7T developed a front wheel vibration at 62mph (no other speed). It didn't sound/feel like a tire issue but when I rotated tires from front to back the vibration went away.

kirby2010 · June 2002

The manual says up to 42 psi for a full load. When I canvased the board a few months ago I couldn't find anyone who was comfortable with that - so I went with 38 psi (four people and luggage). I suspect that these recommendations are a carry over from a European consciousness over fuel efficiency as much improved handling. I can say that even at 38 psi the ride was stiffer and I could feel every bump in the road. 34 psi works fine for me - a good combination of comfortable ride, handling, and tire life.

marleybarr · June 2002

I would agree that tire overinflation can be a serious safety issue. I probably like the stiff ride more than most - I haven't had any problems running 40 psi on the stock Conti tires- running 34/35 I'm sure will work just fine.

Audi A6

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