Audi A6

JBaumgart · August 2003

I put a set of the Extreme Contacts on this spring, in March, and drove on them until the car was traded in, which was in July. They seemed fine for the first couple of months but the noise level was very "disquieting" in the last month or two. My set could have had a different tread pattern than yours - the size was 205/55-16.

timcar · August 2003

Very interesting. I'll see what I perceive as the tires continue to mature. The only other ultra-high performance all-season with which I have experience were a set of Michelins of a model I don't remember that were OEM'ed on a Legend about 12 years ago. Great tires for about 10K, shot after 15K. Became problematic in the wet and VERY scary in any snow. Ride and noise also degraded proportionately.

Some of the driver reviews at Tire Rack differ dramatically for the Conti Extreme's. The only negative I've personally perceived other than the slightly reduced gas mileage occurred yesterday. I had the occasion to drive over some really badly decayed blacktop and poorly maintained dirt roads. I don't think I'd chose these tires if that comprised a significant portion of my daily driving. They're just too harsh for those conditions, though I don't find them objectionable for normal road imperfections.

markcincinnati · August 2003

A friend of mine is on his second Audi -- first a 1999, now a 2003 -- he told me that he keeps wondering if the people that contribute to some of these forums aren't really "anti" NAME HERE.

Mostly, I would say that edmunds does provide a forum for fans of the NAME HERE brand -- my friend sent me a phrase that I have modified for those of us who participate in this town hall (see if you like it):

"Edmunds (Audi) Townhall is a place for Audi enthusiasts to share information and to celebrate the brand."

I don't think this means that this would preclude us from discussing issues and problems, but perhaps it would suggest that this is not just meant to be a forum to "bash" NAME HERE cars.

pat · August 2003

Let's amend that to say "The Audi Owners Club in the Town Hall is a place for Audi enthusiasts to share information and to celebrate the brand."

This particular discussion is to talk about the A6 sedan. There isn't anything wrong with folks posting honest assessments and opinions - negative or positive - as long as there is no intent to disrupt the discussion.

But yes, using any dedicated vehicle discussion for no other purpose than to bash it can be disruptive and should be dealt with by the host - not the other discussion members.

As always, feel free to email me (or any other host) about any concerns of this nature.

markcincinnati · August 2003

Well, I traded - in my A6 4.2 late last year; picked up a new allroad. This time, the dealer didn't "want the A6" (long story, relating to Iraq, recession, rust bucket (OHIO) etc.) Months and months later, I got a bill for about $200 from Audi financial for "excess" milage.

I spoke with my dealer about this -- dealer said that he would "go to bat for me." Dealer thought it was "odd" that Audi would expend large dollars and other incentives to attract a current Audi financial customer to get out of his lease early, help with the paperwork and muck and mire of an early termination (6 months) and then nickel and dime the customer who bought $94,000 worth of Audis on one day (my $50K allroad and my wife's $44K TT).

Three letters from me to Audi -- one of them FedEX -- later, I get an aplogy from Audi and a "we pride ourselves on individual and personal attention" for our customers, etc. Net net -- overage wiped out and once again I feel like an "appreciated" customer.

BTW, after months and months, the dealer bought the car from Audi, put a new battery in it, detailed it and it lasted less than one week on the used car lot (2001 A6 4.2 Sport with all options and 34K miles)!

mbnut1 · August 2003

Can you explain why on some A6 seats the upholstery panels run front to back and on some they run side to side? Is one a sport interior and one a standard? On yours it was side to side (I remember your car from the showroom)

ctorrey · August 2003

Not sure about '03 and newer models, but Audi used to have three distinct interior themes (e.g., ambition, ambiance, etc.). Each of these themes contained several color combinations and had unique textures & stitching. My '01 A6 4.2 has the ambition interior and has skinny longitudinal stitching in the seats. It looks almost like pleats. It is very different from the other themes. I think this also affects door trim.

markcincinnati · August 2003

The easiest way to determine Audi Sport Seats (that are usually on Audi's w/Sport Pckge) is to look at the bolsters. On the sport seats, the bolsters are very deep, the overall look being more like a "bucket" -- the comfort seats, conversely have flatter side and bottom bolsters.

Due to changes from model year to model year, it is not always easy to answer the question about the way the seat leather runs. The bolsters, however, are a dead giveaway.

Some people don't like the sport seats since they tend to apply pressure to, shall we say, wider backsides than do the comfort seats.

I prefer sport seats, but none was avail on my 03 allroad.

timcar · August 2003

The Great Debate:

Is the A6 a beautiful, fast, well-made, lovely driving, performance-luxury auto, OR junk? Beyond counting the centuries that will expire before your typical Camry or Accord will require oil, or maybe even gas, I have decided that the issue has been settled by a younger woman with whom I've been spending time.

One with whom I've enjoyed rondevouz's for the last couple years. Considering that the majority of her conversation consists of chatting with her kitties, and sometimes flowers, I was surprised when I just received the unsolicited comment, "Grandpa, I LIKE your car!"

As a sagacious 2-year-old, those of you who are doubters, should take her judgement to heart. And for those of you who think being a Grandpa ain't cool, just try it!

mbnut1 · August 2003

Well that justs sums it all up now doesn't it?

subewannabe · September 2003

I have been very pleased with the performance of yokohama avs db tires on my A6...quiet, great handling. My wife has hit two big potholes that damaged the sidewalls, necessitating replacement, but otherwise a very nice "all season" tire as long as you dont expect true snow tire winter performance.

I have two daughters , now 13 and 7. They audibly moan when I direct them into the A6 instead of my 94 Explorer with 146K miles on it....they love the higher seating position, comfy leather seats and roominess in the back seat of the Explorer!
They do appreciate the A6 at night, when they can each use their own reading lamp in back.
Mark

jgranata · September 2003

well, it's annoying to me: on my 2001 a6 avant which has the auto dimming rear view mirror, during the daytime when someone comes up behind me, i have no way of putting the mirror into the dark or night mode, is there any way to defeat the system? there is no lever on the bottom of the mirror, just a hole which i assume is the sensor. jackg

markcincinnati · September 2003

When someone comes up behind me in the daytime with his/her high beams a blazing, it seems that the mirror does provide some dimming action.

Are you wishing that it would not do this?

Check the manual, I think the system is sensitive to whether YOUR lights are on or off.

Mark

jgranata · September 2003

to clarify, i don't like ANY headlights in my rear view mirror day or night...on my older caddy with a manual day/night mirror, i just leave it in the night mode...you could very well be correct about the headlights, will try that on the way home...thanks for the suggestion. jack

markcincinnati · September 2003

ctorrey · September 2003

I think the way to defeat the auto dimming mirrors is to place electrical tape over the FRONT sensor (this seems counterintuitive, but I could swear I read it somewhere - if it doesn't work, put the tape on the other sensor that you can see from the driver seat).

jgranata · September 2003

well, i'm not sure if the headlights helped or not. i did find that driving to work in the am, when there is a thick cover of trees over the parkway, my mirror would dim. unfortunately, it never occurred to me to switch the headlights off!!
i never realized there was a sensor on the front of the mirror, facing oncoming traffic. i'm going to check on that on the way home.
thanks for the suggestions. jackg

markcincinnati · September 2003

dwpc · September 2003

I was interested in a new allroad until I got the $21K trade-in offer on my like-new silver '01 A6 2.7T with only 28K miles. After coming out of shock, I've been thinking real hard whether I want another Audi. I love the car, that's why I want the allroad...but 55% depreciation in 3 yrs is Hyundai territory. I'm near LA and wonder if if its just that the local market for used Audis is soft.

mbnut1 · September 2003

Depreciation on Audi's is bad but not that bad. I think a big factor here is your dealer is a thief. I checked Kelly tradin for your car for both here and SoCal and it's $25k. A local dealer is advertising a Certified version of your car for $33K. If I was you I would go back and tell the dealer that if all my 28K mile 01 A6 was worth on tradin was $21K then I would never buy another Audi.

BTW the 25k tradin can be compared to the 31K tradin for an equivalent Mercedes E320. Which is the price one pays for buying a car that makes "fearless" men tremble at the thought of owning an Audi out of warranty.

markcincinnati · September 2003

The relatively low cost of new cars has depressed the value (market value) of used cars. Several other factors, including dealer ripoffs are conspiring to make this a great time to buy new cars, some used cars and a bad time to get rid of used cars.

The Audi dealer I use said that for many it is cheaper on a monthly basis to go for the new Audi than even a 2 or 3 year used Audi. Hence, the new 0% interest rate program on MY 2000 Audis in some areas.

My dealer only will take a used Audi if it is being traded -- i.e., if they have to.

This too, like a 1% Fed Funds Rate, is only temporary. Your depreciation, nevertheless does seem extreme.

jodar · September 2003

Just because a dealer offers you a price doesn't mean you have to blindly accept it. Show him what it is worth from another source and ask him/her how they came up with such a low ball price. Then haggle with him for what you believe is the right price and back it up with your source(s). Was your car damaged? Is the interior in need of cleaning/repair? If so, then that is why your dealer low balled you on the trade-in for your car.

dwpc · September 2003

Of course I haggled, but to little avail. My car is virtually like new: I even keep the engine clean. Maybe its the dealer (a major LA area dealer), but the consensus on another popular Audi forum supports my assessment...almost all A6 owners get a shock when it they try to sell or trade. What made it even more discouraging is that I bought the car from the same place.

taboni · September 2003

The low trade in values you are complaining about are not just confined to Audi. I just picked up a 2003 A6 3.0 and I was trading in a 1999 M-B CLK320 with 78K mi. I knew the mileage was high, considering it seems nobody buys a car these days so there are lots of 3-4 year old cars with 45-50k miles, but the trade in values from 3 different dealers came nowhere near the Kelley price, or any of the consumer available value sources. It seems that all of the auto industry in my region (NY/NJ) use the Galves book for valuations and their prices are seriously low. I had 3 dealers offer me no more that 15K for my car which is in absolutely perfect condition and cost me 47K in Apr of 99. In the end, not wanting to go through the hassle of private sale, I dumped it at CarCash after haggling with them for another $1500. In the end, no matter what you are trading in, you are going to get alot less than you think. I think the biggest travesty is the values that the online sources (edmunds, kelly, etc.) purport to be real. The argument you always get back from a dealer is that they are willing to give you cash while all of the sources in the world are just guidelines.

markcincinnati · September 2003

mbnut1 · September 2003

Taboni
Your example is not quite an apples to apples comparison with the gentleman who was trading an Audi on another Audi. I would expect the Audi dealer to provide a better price on an Audi trade than for a non Audi trade for the simple fact that they can certify it and charge justifiably charge a premium price.

Another takaway is that one should feel extremely justified in lowballing (relative to the stated book values) a dealer on a used car. Based on the two most reacent examples the dealers are actually offering 15% below Kelly blue book tradin even for like brand trades.

markcincinnati · September 2003

. . .in the economy and the market is in some measure the cause for some of the even more shocking than normal decline in used car "values."

When a brand new car can be had for low or 0% interest for a term of up to 60 months -- what happens? Used cars are less "desirable" -- since most people don't pay cash.

While the Fed keeps telling us that deflation is only a very small worry -- well, used cars have actually felt some deflation (85% of bluebook as noted in previous posts).

Audi is worse? Worse than what? To the extent that the residual on a new Audi purhcased/leased in late 1999 (an an MY 2000) was "X" it is almost certainly worth less than "X" (based on demand). But this would certainly not be just an Audi phenomenon -- generally this applies to BMW's, Mercedes, Volvos and others too.

When the monthly nut for a new European lux or near lux automobile is reasonably close to the montly payment on a 2 to 3 year old model, it stands to reason that the new car will be chosen over the "certified pre-owned" (what used to be called a USED car).

The counter is that the dealers have to pay and charge less for used cars -- in order to move them.

Other economic conditions may return that will elevate the residual of the used car -- or not.

It is always difficult at the tail end of an economic trough to see our way out, or see what's on the other side. We all know that there are cycles that roughly are peak followed by downturn leadin to a trough followed by a recovery leading to another peak. Goods and services (perhaps excluding healthcare) almost all are impacted by these repetitive cycles.

Used cars are, now, relatively close to the "trough" -- some say we are coming out of this trough, some say we are sliding along the bottom, sideways.

What ever is really happening we at least know that the Fed is keeping rates for the time being @ 1% and many cars are still to this very day being placed with historically low (artificially low, I might add) money factors (interest rates). Couple this with the normal end of year stuff that is going on and you may conclude as have I that now is a lousy time to sell a used car and perhaps a good time to buy one.

If you are on the selling end -- values are, therefore, probably lousy.

This too shall pass. But it has not yet done so.

cdnpinhead · September 2003

what your car costs per month.

The people who lease know exactly what their vehicle will cost each and every month, and the people who buy cars have high (low, really) hopes that, having bought the vehicle, once it's paid off, the monthly costs will be far more reasonable.

The major issue here is that most cars that are fun to drive appear to be something of a challenge to keep maintained (or at least to afford the time or money required). When (not if, when) the Asians come up with a truly fun vehicle, Audi (& BMW, Merc, Jag, Volvo & even Lincoln (the LS has had enough issues to have achieved character)) will be in for some really tough sledding. The G35 may not be the be-all and end-all, but it should be taken as a message that they're getting closer.

Monthly costs are always lower for those who buy and hold. When it's possible to buy and hold a really fun car without having it eat your shorts in terms of maintenance, even performance-oriented drivers will take note.

Of course, many will take the contrarian position that anything that's reliable and being bought by too many people isn't for them. Most won't.

The next few years will be interesting.

markcincinnati · September 2003

I often take the contrarian position to some or many of your posts. However, this time -- I find myself darn near in 100% agreement with you.

I really like the "looks" (its a start) of the Infinity G35 and if they made that thing, in that body, all wheel drive and kept the time to 100kph under 7 seconds and made or kept the handling as tight in the twisties as some car magazine writers have suggested -- you are right.

In any case the next two to four years could be quite interesting.

When my car was being detailed, I rented a maxed out Altima -- it was very nice. It was, however, like driving my sofa. But I am not meaning to damn the thing with backwards or faint praise. The car was competent and comfortable and spunky. The A/C was like an icebox and the sound system was premo all the way. The seats were well constructed and only a tiny bit too soft.

I assume this car maxed out as it was was NOT $30,000. Very impressive.

Anyway, I started out to tell you I agreed with you -- nothing has changed from that sentiment.

This should be good for the market. Hopefully Audi will rise to the challenge.

cdnpinhead · September 2003

As I'm sure you're aware, I really enjoy the Audi in principle. I'm planning a 2-week vacation in Europe in a couple of weeks and hope to be able to rent a turbodiesel A4 (or A3, if I'm lucky).

But Audi or any of the other luxury/performance brands can't continue to exist very successfully in an environment where depreciation and/or maintenance take so much of the bloom off the rose. Even in a fully-warranted environment, the logistics of dropping off and picking up vehicles that require service can become onerous.

Either way, it's pleasant to exchange ideas with you. You clearly place a higher value on new features that I'd tend to call "bells & whistles", but I think both of us appreciate cars that go around sharp corners nicely and accelerate well, while providing reasonable creature comforts all the while.

Enjoy that Allroad.

Steve

markcincinnati · September 2003

. . .claim to have been checking up on the Toyota chat rooms and also claim that the Toyota chatter is filled with every bit as much, if not more, "quality, dealer and performance issues" as we sometimes see here in der fatherland town hall discussions.

I have not done any analysis but perhaps things are just not as rosy anywhere as we ALL seem to expect.

Service intervals, I think I was told, on the new Porches are now @ 15,000 miles; Audis 10,000 miles. Of course these are for the maintenance tasks not the fix or replacement of broken (warranty or not) items.

My wife has her car serviced as per the factory (10,000 miles) and she thinks she is always at the dealership.

Frankly other than my On*star issues from the get go on my 03 allroad, this car has been "the best yet." My wife thinks my car is "always in the shop." At 18K miles (other than the first 11 or 18 days and a couple more On*star visits) my car's only issue has been the blown Xenon igniter.

Keepin' my fingers crossed.

jgranata · September 2003

does anyone know where the washer bottle on a 2001
a6 avant is located? the dealer says it's on the right side of the way back, i took the door panel off back there and couldn't find it.

off this topic but icw the g35 and awd...i think it was autoweek that reported recently that around december of this year infiniti will offer awd on the g35, don't recall if it's the coupe or the sedan. jackg

markcincinnati · September 2003

jaydoll · September 2003

I took a 03 A6 out for a ride today. 2.7 with almost all options (roof/leather/heated seats/parktronic/steptronic/bose/xm sat radio)
24 K miles black/black. The car stickered at $45500. The owner is asking $34K. It also has new Continental contact ?? tires on the nice 5 spoke rims. The only option it was missing that I really was bummed about was the sport bucket seats.

isthisa good price for a 03 A6 2.7 ?

Thanks for any input,

jay

nosho · September 2003

According to the A6 service manual, the washer bottle is in the front left wheel well. Remove the left front wheel. Remove the wheel housing liner. Washer bottle is then accessible.

markcincinnati · September 2003

If all you want to do is access the bottle, just raising the bonnet will do, you do not need to take off the wheel to do this.

turborules · September 2003

I'm looking into buying a new A6 2.7t 6 speed listing at $44,990 for $42,990. I now lease a 2000 A6 2.7t 6 speed with the high perf. chip in it. I'm done with the lease in Nov. My buy out is $24,600 & as you can tell I really like the car. Though I've not had any serious problems with the car, what I've read on this forum has me concerned about owning a 2.7t without a warranty. I'm also concerned with buying the new one & getting stuck in 3 years with trying to sell it without losing my shirt. My thinking was I could sell it with 1 year full warranty left and it would cost me less per month to have driven it then if I were to lease the new one (currently $579 per month with $1,800 down). I'm looking for some feed back from this forum on the selling price for the new one, buying my current one, which has 30,000 miles on it & is in mint condition, or checking out something else with all wheel drive such as the new Lexus suv. Thanks to all in advance for your thoughts & expertise.

ctorrey · September 2003

I think you can probably do a little better than $2k off sticker as the market is soft and the current A6 is in what many believe to be it's last year. Maybe invoice + $500 is more like it.

markcincinnati · September 2003

. . .and, I'll bet the lease is pretty attractive on the new one.

You will certainly be getting a somewhat more refined car, albeit very familiar. I would do it unless you think you can wait for the05's.

Now, with respect to the warranty -- I may be paranoid and frankly my personal experiences have been good, but do not keep this car out of warranty. Chances are nothing will happen, but even minor things on this car will be "breathtakingly expensive" to repair or replace if such a need arises.

See if you can get another $1,000 off and enjoy yourself with your new 2.7T!

You might replace the BPV's which cost a lot less than a chip and be happy, who knows? Try replacing them first ($90 for the pair) and see if you don't think the thing performs to your liking.

However, the chip probably has spoiled you, so there's that to consider -- but now you can get a Direct Port Chip which means nothing actually has to be replaced www.goapr.com.

Let us know what you do!

dwpc · September 2003

That's a good price if its an '04, but there's still some room; not so good for an '03. Does it include the current $750 Audi Loyalty credit?

The buyout on your '00 is OK but no bargain. If you were trading in, you'd be looking at maybe $19-20K. If you hold out, Audi may even discount it a thousand or two, though Audi Financial seems inconsistent on this.

You might find a used car at a better price, but it would a "strange" car. Intimate knowledge of the car and its history are worth something, plus you keep the chip.

I agree with Mark that the costs of Audi repairs can be shocking (though Audi's far from alone on this). If you believe postings on Audi sites like Audiworld, any significant engine problem runs into the thousands and a bad trans can cost over $10K to replace. If you buy from Audi you can probably get an extended warranty. I'd avoid a 3rd party warranty unless they're very well known and accepted.

BTW, if you live in CA, the turbos are covered to 7yrs/70K miles as part of the emission controls (in '01s anyway).

turborules · September 2003

The car is a 2004 model & I would be ordering it since my lease runs into November. Because the invoice is about $40,755 I also feel they could move down some & meet me halfway at $41,879 or so. The chipped 2000 A6 has spoiled me & driving the 2004 without the chip was a bit disappointing performance wise but I did like the sport suspension which mine doesn't have. I would definitely chip the new one if I get it. I don't know what BPV's are so Mark if you would enlighten me I would appreciate it. By the way I did drive a 2004 S4 6 speed while I was there checking out the A6 2.7t & it is quite a car. It's a little too small for me but if I didn't have 2 kids I would probably be getting that. I don't know if the $750 loyalty was included in the price but I will certainly be asking about it. Has anyone done this Direct Port Programming that I just read about. It does sound interesting but what does it cost & what are the HP & torque gains one could expect to see. Again thanks to all for responding.

markcincinnati · September 2003

Stands for By Pass Valves. Your 2.7T has two of them. They effect the turbo and specifically the turbo's responsiveness. They are "mandatory" practically for chipped cars and I put sport BPV's on mine since they were only $45 apiece.

The effect was to make the car accelerate more strongly -- the effect is no where near as pronounced as a chip. But the risk of blowing a turbo is virtually nil with these Bosch Sport Bypass Valves model 110. www.hoppenmotorsport.com has a full explanation.

Kirstie_H · September 2003

Don't forget tonight's member-to-member chat -- Our topic tonight is "Warranties: Are they worth it?"

http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/townhallchat.html

6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Drop by for live chat with other members. Hope you can join us!

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

carljai · September 2003

Hey guys I'm new here, and I want to know with all honesty would it be recommended for a college student to purchase a used 99 A6, with mileage under 100,000?

I just want to know what the pros and cons would be if I buy this car?

markcincinnati · September 2003

. . .it pains me to suggest that this car may sour you on Audis unless it has a really great warranty.

It is not that it is a bad car or unreliable -- it is just that maintenance is expensive, not frequent, mind you, but expensive nevertheless.

Repairs are BREATHTAKINGLY expensive.

I am not suggesting that this would NOT be my comment if you had said BMW 5 series or Mercedes E class all of the same 1999 MY.

Ditto Jaguar, Volvo and Saab. You can run, but you can't hide from the high costs of servicing these fine cars.

I have no reason to NOT want you to be an Audi owner. Quite the contrary. I want you to be a repeat Audi owner -- get one with a comprehensive (and preferably Audi sponsored) warranty.

Or don't get the car.

Kirstie_H · September 2003

pros: very cool looking car, great ride, fun to drive

cons: it's going to drain pockets you didn't even know you had

As with mark, I'm a fan of Audi for all that they are, apart from the maintenance & repair costs. They're great, and I would strongly advocate owning one, when you're in a position to afford the repairs and only then. Any luxury or near-luxury vehicle is going to be the same. As a college student (presumably with a limited budget) you're much better off getting a car for which parts and service are plentiful and reasonable.

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

markcincinnati · September 2003

. . .and is probably Audi assured.

Or find a deal on a new fully warranted VW or maybe a somewhat newer Audi that will permit you to LEASE a used car, the payment, will be less.

Just be prudent at this point.

I have had over 25 Audis -- I speak from experience.

But they are great driver's cars to be sure.

nyccarguy · September 2003

Well after just about 30K miles, it is time to replace the Pirelli P6 tires on my Mom's '02 A6 3.0Q. Any advice? We're looking to replace the P6s with another all season tire. Thanks for the input!

markcincinnati · September 2003

nyccarguy · September 2003

I'm looking to stick with the stock size...I believe it is 215/55 R16.

Audi A6

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