Audi A6

andys120 · December 2003

that most of the equivalent Euro models sold on the other side are less lavishly equipped than US-spec models, lacking powerseats, AT, ACC, cruise etc. and other features considered essential in NA. This may account for the relatively "low" prices of the same cars in Euro spec.

dwongswong · December 2003

I just went to the Audi dealership today to look around at the new 2004 models. I saw two A4's with the new ultra sport package (one in silver and one in something that look like electric blue). Whoa!! They look amazing. It makes the cars look like the S4 but without the price or power. As a matter of fact, I thought the two cars looked better than the S4 package (more sporty). Considering I don't drive fast or have any need for a V8 engine, I definitely would rather buy an A4 3.0 quattro with the ultra sport package around $39k than pay $52k for an S4. I wish the A6 has a similar package to make it look more like a RS6. That would be awesome. I currently drive a 2003 A6 3.0 quattro. My wish for Christmas is to somehow win the lottery and buy whatever I want or get hit by a FedEx truck, have my car totalled, I'd be fine, and get my A4 with the ultra sport package.

Why FedEx you ask? My brother-in-law is a lawyer, and he told me the story about his secretary driving in her one-year-old Ford F-150 truck and was rear-ended by a FedEx truck. The Ford was totalled, and she was hurt only minorly. FedEx paid the loan on her Ford off, bought her a brand new one, and gave her a check for $25k for her troubles. That is what I call taking care of business. Now every time I see FedEx truck, I hope something similar would happen.

If you have a chance, look at the Ultra sport package on the A4. As always, drive safely out there.

kirby2010 · December 2003

Andy's comments on cars of the same brand being more basic is right on. Audi, Benz, BMW, and VW are the "big four" in Germany. And there's lots of competition among European car manufacturers (and Japanese/Korean, too) for the middle class car buyer. The vast majority of cars on the road in Germany do not have leather seats or sport wheels. Imagine an Audi or BMW with hub caps! I believe the basic, and most common, engine in the European A6 is the 2.5 TDI (diesel). There are also a range of models in Europe that are not available here - Audi A2, Benz A-Class, etc. What we see here are their top-of-line models to fill the same market niche they're designed to meet there. European manufacturers are not exporting to target the "middle class" market, with the possible exception of VW.

Still, American auto manufacturers could learn a lot from this. Indeed there was a time when the American auto followed a similar pattern. Once upon a time there were three levels of Ford product - Ford, Mercury, and Lincoln. Mercury was once a major upgrade to the similar sized Ford. Today, they're the same car with different badge. No additional features at all. GM is worse. They once had five levels. It's now virtually impossible to distinguish between Buick and Pontiac and the Oldsmobile, which is its heyday was the stretch goal for someone who couldn't afford a Cadillac, is no longer.

BTW - I wouldn't give Audi too much credit for holding the line on price in the face of a rising Euro. The design has been stabile for six years and you can be sure they have had their suppliers lined up for long term contracts from day one. Interim design changes, and the necessary suppliers, have also been been planned for well in advance of the dollar's decline. I would expect a price boost for the new 2005 model.

mbnut1 · December 2003

Unless the supplier contracts were in dollars rather than Euro's wouldn't Audi be eating the exchange rate losses.

markcincinnati · December 2003

Most of us speak no or little German, I assume; but, I urge you to check out virtually any European Audi web site (that has a configurator, and I think most do) and while there build yourself an American or better said North American Audi.

We get Audis, relatively speaking, for less (converted to USD) money than they do in the Fatherland.

When last in Germany, 2002, I spoke with a German Audi employee who job it is to work with the Audi Car Club of North America (formerly the Quattro Club). He said that, for example, his S6 (a factory car) sunroof (glass with the inner opaque door, just like we get here) was approximately a $4,500 (four thousand five hundred DOLLAR) equivalent option -- and that is why so many cars in Germany and Austria do not have the sunroofs whereas virtually all NA bound Audis have them.

As I recall, his Audi had power FRONT only windows and cloth seats and only the driver's side was power adjusted and on and on and on. The Audi allroad that we get here comes with "bright aluminum" trim (it is not an option) -- yet in Europe it is called Aluminum Opti-pack or words to that effect and there is a charge for everything above a "base model."

It is true there are plenty of Mercedes, Audi, VW and other non-German taxis in Germany and elsewhere in Europe. But THEY COST more in many cases than our "tarted up, optioned out" versions.

Just ask a taxi driver how much that A8 he is driving cost him -- be ready for an uncontrolled expletive to belch from your lips like some bad gas you got from that extra spicy Pizza pie.

Then, if this is not enough to tell you that it would in some respects be cheaper to buy the car in the US and ship it back to the Fatherland, go into an Audi dealership in Zurich -- wander over to the sticker price of any old run of the mill A4 and again be ready to grab your chest exclaiming "It's the big one!"

Now, I wonder if Audi reinstitutes the overseas buying program for us here in North America -- weel, what if we order the car here, pick it up and drive it there and, well -- just leave it there (if you have relatives in Venice or Amsterdam, for example). . .? I am certain they would frown on reselling it, but when I tell my relatives in Europe what we get for our money they seem to suggest that they pay so much more for their cars because of taxes.

Proud to be able to buy German cars in the US.

kirby2010 · December 2003

but not in Germany. I believe (actually I'm certain) that German autos are cheaper in just about every country that uses the Euro. German manufacturers count substantially on the nationalism of their consumers. There are a lot of German citizens who drive non-German autos, I think in part because it's easier to defend buying a Toyota than it is to say they bought their VW in Belgium and saved a couple thousand Euros.

markcincinnati · December 2003

. . .in Zurich equated to about $40,000 USD and it wasn't even a 1.8T equipped as we would get here for about $30K. Audis (or perhaps any other European brand) may now be less money on the European continent -- my recent attempts at using the non-English configurator would suggest otherwise.

Moreover, one of my co-workers, a Brit, says that a more or less basic Passat 1.8T is in Pounds about the same price as it would be in Dollars here in the US. On average, that would make German cars in the UK about 40% more than they are here.

caslin · December 2003

Not sure on the spelling, but this is the clear plastic "bra" that applies directly to the front bumper, about the first 15 inches of the hood and the outside mirrors. Saw this on several of the demo's at my dealer and looks sharp (invisible everwhere except at the termination line on the hood). Dealer wants $350 to apply, any input from anyone whose had this, how durable, etc. Can be removed later, so this dealer is putting it on all staff vehicles for paint protection. Says most purchasers are choosing to leave it on. 2000 miles and still smiling, so many gears and so little time!

cdnpinhead · December 2003

I guess it's all magic.

The value of the Euro can swing 30% against the dollar with no effect whatsoever on anything.

It's a good business to be in.

JBaumgart · December 2003

Most European auto manufacturers use hedging techniques to smooth out the impact of fluctuating currencies. There was an article in the WSJ the other day about Porsche and their extensive use of hedging - lucky for them they did this past year because they are very dependent on the U.S. for a large percentage of their sales.

markcincinnati · December 2003

. . .MSRP's for Audis (and others) have risen steadily throughout the Euro/Dollar valuation fluctuations; our interest rates have gone virtually negative (to zero, stimulative for some time that is and low lower lowest for Audi Financial "buyers").

My comments about personally walking into an Audi dealer in Zurich were January 2002 time frame -- I don't know if the same is true at the same level today. I used a German language konfigurator and a UK one to come up with the relative prices in Euros or Pounds Sterling as the basis for some of my comments.

My main point was that my European friends and family and my US living Brit co-workers ALL seem to suggest that in US dollars, comparable Audis (and VW's) cost MORE "over there" than here.

I am not in the biz of currency exchange and some of my information is based on 22 month old data and even with the konfigurator, I had to "guess" the final content of the car I configured in comparison with my US version.

Plenty happens -- and yes hedging and other "market smoothing" techniques are used to prevent frequent price adjustments. Heck even the adoption of the Euro itself was INTENDED in part to mitigate currency exchange value shrinkage.

No one said no changes were taking place -- from my vantage point, the cars "cost less or about the same" despite what I perceive is higher MSRP and from my vantage point higher (better perhaps) content.

Today Audi will "sell" you a car based on 1.9% interest. This offsets (partially at least) the currency issues and the MSRP creep that goes with such phenomena.

kirby2010 · December 2003

Jbaumgart and markc are right on about the steps European auto makers take to avoid price fluctuations. This is something I cannot get the engineers on my team to understand. No surprise there, of course. these are the same folks who think that the Audi engineering team decided oil changes every 10,000 is a good idea. Markc is right, too, that the Euro was designed in part to provide stability. Of course we can always count on the currency of our neighbors to the north to continue it's nose dive.

mbnut1 · December 2003

"Of course we can always count on the currency of our neighbors to the north to continue it's nose dive."

Huh?? It wasn't that long ago that the Canadian dollar fetched 63 cents US now its bringing 76 cents. This doesn't sound like much of a "nosedive" to me

markcincinnati · December 2003

. . .perhaps what was meant was we can [currently] count on the economy of our neighbors to the north to continue. . .etc.

Our poor lil 'ol Dollar -- just can't get no respect (with thanks to Rodney Dangerfield).

This, too, shall pass.

Dow 10,000+ 18 months later, it's about time.

The US economy = "I think I can, I think I can, I think I can. . ." (with thanks to Watty Piper).

jkendall · December 2003

Mark Cincinati, I just couldn't pass up the early out on the lease, since I plan to purchase next time, SO, having never even sat in one or seeing the color I'm getting, I'm purchasing a TT 3.2 with Dolomite/aviator gray and the 9 spoke wheels. I'm really excited and plan to keep it for two to three years or until I can't get in and out of it! I know you've had a TT, and I know of no other person who's owned one, but I think it was a good idea.

Whaddaya think?

Ralph had a black/vanilla, but I just don't think it would be possible to keep the interior clean.

Now, the car will have depreciated about as much as the $7,200 left on the lease by the end of October '04, but I would have had some fun and, at lease will have the sales taxes paid to help on the next purchase. For hauling, I'll just have to use my wife's Escalade EXT

I agree to wait for a Touareg or Cayenne S 'cause there's no telling how they'll depreciate, and there may be some significant upgrades and improvements over the next two years.

So there you have it. (TT forum has almost no action, so I chose this one).

jk

markcincinnati · December 2003

. . .my wife said she'll never go back to a "regular" car.

Our 3 TT's (last two 225HP coupe with EVERY option including the mouse fur steering wheel) have been virtually error free. The tires, well that's a different story. New plates annually, and new tires annually. We've got the 18" wheels and we're using Pirelli Pzero Nero UHP all seasons -- my wife loves them in our moderate winters and they are, here, true all season tires.

The only issue we have ever had was with the last one -- 2001 -- the trick power window on the passenger side stopped working. A one day fix.

Great milage, great performance, holds golf clubs and goes like greased whatever.

Personally, I can't imagine why one would choose a Boxster over the TT 3.2 w/the DSG transmission yours will have.

I don't know anything about the 3.2 engine except what I read -- and its all good.

The 12 months early out was too hard to pass up -- I wish I would get one of those coupons, I would immediately get another allroad because I fear that they are not long for this earth and the allroad is -- for me -- the best Audi I have ever had, and, as you know, my wife and I will, next set be at 30 Audis and still counting.

Now, I do so want an S4, and perhaps if I go full term on my allroad (a 2003) I will go with the S4 Avant and pretend its my sporty allroad.

Anyway, you will love the TT.

BTW, the roadster, so I am told, will NOT hold golf clubs. That wouldn't bother me, but my wife is a golfer and doesn't like to drive my STATION WAGON to the country club.

rerobbins · December 2003

I'm considering purchasing a 2004 A6 2.7T and have some questions concerning the option to add a portable cell phone that integrates with the OnStar system.

The system in my current car (2001 BMW 530i) integrates with the radio so that frequently called numbers appear as menu selections on the radio display and I can also use the radio buttons as telephone touchpad buttons if I want. This is useful for navigating voicemail systems when need be. Does the Audi system allow for this kind of interface or is it strictly voice activated?

The reason that I'm asking this question is my concern that if the phone is tucked away inside the center console then it would not appear to be convenient to touch the keypad on the phone and I'm concerned that a voice only system will likely result in situations where keypad access is needed.

Thanks in advance for your comments.

-- Rich

markcincinnati · December 2003

The Motorola brand, Audi-programmed, "mobile and portable" phone has a PHONE BOOK capability.

You dial the number you will be calling and hit save, then when prompted, "OFFICE-VM" (or MOM or whatever you want) -- then if you are doing this action while you are in the car you can press another button or (using voice commancs) say "MOM" say it again and again and then your car and your phone are both hands free and eyes free, if you choose.

Press the telephone button on the lower left hand side of the steering wheel and the center screen between the tach and speedo will show you the words you have typed in "OFFICE-VM" "MOM" "AUDI DEALER" or whatever (I think it stores at least 99 numbers, I have never run out). If you don't see who you want to call, you press the up/down buttons on the steering wheel and the display in front of you scrolls showing you all the names you have keyed into the phone. When you find the one you like, you press the telepone icon button on the lower right hand side of the steering wheel and the radio/CD/Tape/Sat mutes, the number and the name that is being dialed displays on the screen in front of you and the radio display says PHONE.

Assuming you have the system set for "dual mono" speaker sound, you will hear your party when he/she answers and you just talk. When you're done you press the phone icon button and it hangs up. If your party hangs up, your phone will hang up a couple of seconds later, if you turn the car off in the middle of the conversation, the phone stays live until you disconnect or the party you are speaking with hangs up.

Conversely, if you press the phone icon button or the white dot On*star button the voice prompt says "ready" and you say either "dial" 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-0 "dial" or "call" -- nametag -- "OFFICE" -- calling; and, the entire thing works both hands and eyes free. Then the up/down buttons on the wheel control the volume of the call.

If the phone is plugged into the arm rest, the minutes are your carrier's minutes; if the phone is in your pocket and you use the voice prompt, the minutes are ON*Star "units" and they cost an arm and two legs.

If you are talking on the phone that is in the cradle and you want to make the call private or you need to get out of the car, just press the release button and the phone will pop out and you can keep talking.

The only thing you cannot do with this set up is dial voice mail, pause and key in the password -- once you access voice mail, you must open the clamshell on your phone and press the password keys -- this means that ON*star minutes cannot access voice mail systems, since ON*star has no keypad associated with it (and besides ON*star minutes are expensive and shold be used for emergencies or the VIRTUAL ADVISOR -- which is way cool).

Virtual Advisor will literally read your e-mail (from your office or home or wherever) to you -- and permit voice replies -- attachments are simply called attachments so a WORD document will not be opened and read to you.

I selectively forward email to my Audi when I am out of town on a biz trip and use this function -- also my wife knows my car's e-dress and she too sends me mail there.

Buy a block of 100 minutes for 1 year and you will be happy, imho. I am on my second year and I paid for the minimum "safe and secure" features, use airshare from Verizon on my Audi and shared with an identical phone in my wife's Audi. On*star will have a completely separate phone number (my On*star even has a separate area code from the physical telephone that is stored in the arm rest.)

There are probably better systems out there, but this system is easy to use, easy to set up and flexible. The virtual advisor function is great for traffic and weather too since it knows where you are and helps you based on "your current location."

Don't leave home without it!

rerobbins · December 2003

Thanks for the description mark. I have a follow up question. As you describe things, if I'm going to use voice mail then I will need to open the clamshell in order to get to the telephone keypad. Can this be done when the phone is in the crade in the center console? Is it possible to mount the phone in a cradle that is not tucked away and from which it would be easy to reach the keypad?

-- Rich

markcincinnati · January 2004

The clamshell Motorola phone (Audi "brand") fits into a holder that is tucked-away inside the armrest. In the A6 configuration, this holder has an articulating design that permits -- with the push of a button that is accessed with the armrest lid open -- the phone to rise both up and forward simultaneously. The phone cradle is thus slightly to your right and at approximately steering wheel level. The clamshell can be opened while the phone is locked into the holder/cradle mechanism. This allows you to not have to look way down and over to key in the password to your VM.

My password is a 6 digit number and I have learned by feel (once I locate the dimple on the "5" button) to enter my code without looking at the keypad. I probably had this technique mastered by day two of ownership.

rerobbins · January 2004

Mark,

You've provided exactly the information I was looking for. Thank you very much.

-- Rich

jkendall · January 2004

Does anyone know if there's any wiring to the cell phone cradle on the TT. Mine came with it, and it sticks up, and is otherwise in the way. I would like to remove it, but don't know if it has any wires connected to it. It doesn't appear to have them, but I would like to know.

Otherwise, the TT is fantastic. It has a great exhaust note, lottsa power, and is fun to drive with or without the steering wheel paddles.

jk

markcincinnati · January 2004

I can't help you on the TT wiring question. But, I would at least like to caution you that the sound system and telephone ARE INTEGRATED. I would hate to hear that you had "undone" something and lost your audio.

I know it must be a pain in the rear for you to go to the dealer for such trivia, but perhaps this integration with the audio and the potential to screw it up, would make this worthwhile.

All three of our TT's have had the factory phone, the current TT, a 2003, has the Motorola removable phone in it and my wife has become a believer. With cell phone# portability a reality, perhaps it would not be too inappropriate for me to suggest you consider switching your # to the in-car, portable phone (after you acquire one from Audi, of course).

Good luck.

felixoz · January 2004

Does anyone have any experience with reprogramming the Bosch motronic engine management system for the A6? This is not ripoff 'chipping', instead you would be doing true tuning for performance increases - air/fuel ratios, rev limit, ignition map, shift points, removing environmental limits and so on. The Chevrolet folks seem to have blazed this trail with the LS1 V8s ("LS1 Edit"). It is less of a plug 'n' play chip, rather a true re-edit of the engine computer to extract as much power as the engine is designed for. Any tips on experiences or contacts appreciated.

Cheers all.

caslin · January 2004

Look into APR(Audi Performance Racing) here in the USA. They have some pretty good info on website that should cover most of your questions. Let me know if this helps. http://www.goapr.com

kccambridge · January 2004

I am looking at buying a certified pre owned 2001 A6 Avant with 33K miles, premium sound, and xenon headlights for $26,800 from a reputable dealer. Any thoughts?

jodar · January 2004

You should be able to get it for less than that. Check Edmunds used car pricing. I'd bargain from the dealer wholesale price and add options according to what is on the list. Subtract a few hundred or so, depending on where you are buying and if you can determine how long the car has been on the lot. If the salesman/sales manager asks you where you got your info, show him/her your information. Be firm and hold to your guns.

I'd seriously consider an extended warranty for this model given some of the posts on this website.

Actually, I paid less than you did with less mileage

and have been happy ever since.

andys120 · January 2004

(5/100k)hence there's a premium.

kccambridge · January 2004

Jodar how much did you actually pay and how many miles are on the car? Did you get it at a dealer? So far I've got the dealer to come down to 25,500, but seem to have stalled there. With all the options (premium sound, winter package, CPO) Edmunds list the car at $28,718 for the certified car.

jodar · January 2004

Check out my Posts 220 (A6 Wagons) and 3746 (A6). My car had only 22K on it. You know what they say about timing. I paid $25K, plus $1.8K for the extended warranty, which covers up to 100K and 7 (?) years? I'm not sure now.

The salesman was trying to hook me up on getting it but I told him that I needed to do more internet research. The car had a retail sticker of $31.5K and 'Special' price of $29.5K. To my surprise, he then showed me the dealer's computer and T1 line to the internet. I checked out Edmunds and the trade-in and, at the time, was $24.5K or so. That is where I started. The salesman laughed but took it to his boss. He came back and said could I meet him half way. I said, well, "okay, another $500..$25K tops." Then I came back and told him, that as a dealer, they would've taken in that car for $24.5K or less as a trade-in. No sensible dealer was going to give top dollar on a trade-in that they would turn around and sell. So, my reasoning to him was that even at $25K, they would still be making some money off of the car. He came back twice before the deal was finally made.

Later, as I was waiting for the car to be washed, the salesman showed me actual documentation to indicate that the car was traded in at $25.5K! So, the dealer did lose money on the car!

So you see, low balling as a customer can help. What you may want to consider is how many similar cars are on the lot. Also, how long has that car been on the lot? If its been there for a few months, the dealer is going to want to move it out rather than to pay for upkeep and insurance on it.

You can do a bit of 'acting' and pretend that you aren't that interested in the car (even though you are). I also did that claiming that I really wanted the car in 'black' and would be having to look at it for the next 4 years. This way, they don't perceive you as really wanting the car at any price.

If yours is as equipped as mine is, then that is where you should start. $25.5K is quite good considering it is a CPO. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but if its a CPO, you only get the balance of the factory warranty then right? Until 50K miles? If so, I'd seriously consider getting an extended warranty.

If I were you and given the arguments previously made, I'd offer the dealer $24K and see what he says. I'm looking at the trade-in at $23,530. Give the dealer $500 profit

Show him/her how you arrived at that price (only if they ask, like I did) and stay firm. If they balk, you may counter them by saying, "is it worth having an old car, on the lot, paying for insurance and upkeep that is depreciating daily? Better deal now. If you treat me right, I will tell all my friends and relatives to buy a car from your dealership." (I said this, too.)

As of this writing, my Avant runs like a charm, with no serious problems as of yet. I do use synthetic Mobil 1 oil between changes, which I do myself. This is because it takes forever to schedule an appointment at the dealer. Unless its a scheduled service call, I'd just as well do the job myself.

markcincinnati · January 2004

Well, apparently the new A6 lineup will be cut from 3 to 2 (based on the engine). The low buck, 3.0 version will not be offered (at least in the US, I can't speak to elsewhere). Gone, too, will be a turbocharged version.

Apparently the base A6 will use the 3.2 engine (currently found in the Audi TT and VW RS 32) and will be rated at 250HP (don't know the torque) which from an HP perspective is the same as the last 2.7T (but 15HP lower than the current version). The step up model will be equipped with the 4.2 engine and it too will come to play with more HP (and presumably torque).

I assume that the S4 and current allroad 4.2 V8 (rear timing chain) will be the one used as it is "shorter" -- but this is just speculation on my part.

Content? Well, my dealer ESTIMATES the base price of the 3.2 version will be $45K, a reasonably well equipped 2004 2.7T A6 (with the new power of 265HP) is MSRP'd @ $47,600, so perhaps this is not that much of an issue.

However the lower priced A6 front track will be gone, gone, gone.

The dealer did not know if the A6 family would be offered in FWD and quattro -- but he commented that they would not sell very many FWD cars in any case and would not have any more inventory than the barest minimum.

caslin · January 2004

Mark, I'm still being told the 265 hp "special" 04 A6 2.7T is auto "only", no one has yet to tell me differently. My dealer recieved his first one's last week. The xtra 15 ponies in an auto still won't beat the 6 speed manual @ 250 hp. It doesn't surprise me that they are moving away from turbos, what a shame (too much chipping-perhaps). No FWD, no Need for CVT?- do they use it on the A4? My A6 is still bringing smiles to my face daily - 4200 miles and not a problem. Your right about the phone system and "virtual advisor", what a concept! Can anybody tell me about a "W" 12, what is the cylinder layout, etc. Obviouly already used by VW, but whose design is it-Audi or VW, or is there a difference anymore.

markcincinnati · January 2004

Is auto only. I hope I didn't suggest that it would be otherwise. The last 6spd 2.7T's there are, if there are any unsold, are the 250HP versions.

Sorry if I mis-spoke.

caslin · January 2004

Mark, no mis-speak on your part, just trying to get outside confirmation on the auto only-to verify if my dealer was just blowing smoke. Wonder if the new 3.2 will be available in manual? My dealer told me that he "thought" auto only, at least in USA. Now that would be a SHAME indeed. Regardless, looks like I'm luky to have gotten what I did-when i did. Very Happy indeed-what a great ride, even without the bunwarmers!!! Mark, thanks for the info!!!

markcincinnati · January 2004

. . .set to music please:

"probably only the A4 and S4 will soldier on with a manual option." [probably]

"improved transmissions have been promised, including 6spd tips, DSG's and quattro ready CVT's"

"no one wants a manual transmission, APPARENTLY. . ." [almost no "showroom" or floor planned cars will be ordered without a home by the dealer purchasing agent -- because the sticks sit and sit and sit]

Sure they sit bone head [not you] -- ya know why bunkie? Here is what my dealer does -- orders a gross of new Audis, two or three with stick shifts and the sticks have minimal options. Doh?!?

So I walk in the door and I want a stick shift with every possible option upgrade and feature both factory and aftermarket (like the Audi dealer only voice activated Motorola in arm rest Phone) -- and I wait about 4+ months cause the only maxed out cars on the lot have auto's which I would NOT take for a discount -- and they charge more for them, to boot. Doesn't seem to effect the residual when I am going for the lease, so, I have the fun of configuring my car the anticipation of the build process and the fun all over again from getting my maxed out Audi with a stick shift.

To each his own -- trouble is, since I am one of the few who do this, it is probably very expensive to certify both a stick and an automatic for the North American market place when probably there are Oh, about 20 customers in the country who don't think I am nuts for insisting on a stick even though I have to wait months and months for my car to come in.

An Audi A6 with a V8 and a stick shift -- I'll just dream on. . . .

We can't curse on this forum, but there are no rules against whining I think.

Listen, if the new A6's have awesome automatics, I probably won't whine, so here's to optimism.

caslin · January 2004

I'll just wait four months for a stick, even if it comes in without bunwarmers. "Awesome Automatic", say it six times real fast and then -buy a stick!!! Mark, you & I make two, wonder where the other eighteen live? Wonder if you could squeeze a W12 in a A6? Add turbos and a stick and beat NASA to mars, now thats dreaming!!

markcincinnati · January 2004

You see, if you do wait four months, you can be assured the car WILL have bunwarmers because the car will be built just for lil ol you!

Now, if exactly what you want is ON THE LOT, for pity's sake, buy it -- but if, like me, you want an all out A6 or allroad or A4 or whatever AND a stick, well, basically you must order it.

The sticks my deler configures (with the exception of the S4) are generally low content, relatively.

My 6spd 2003 allroad is THE ONLY one I have ever seen with: Parktronic, ON*STAR, SAT NAV, fullly painted bumpers and fender flares and rear seat air bags. Most of the sticks, to this very day, have leather (premium pck) and the sat radio package and that is it.

The autos are often "decked out" with the full array of gizmos and gadgets. I find this amazing, as if it implies if you want a stick, you want a base (or more base) model.

Horse hockey!

dwongswong · January 2004

I just looked at pictures of the new A6 at the Autoweek website. I don't like the new grill that is on it. I don't like the style that Audi is going towards (one big grill from the hood to the bottom of the bumper). It looks like something Cadillac would do. I don't know if I'm the only one who dislike this look. I've heard several people on other websites say that they like it very much. Oh well, I guess I will have to switch brand.

On a related subject, I heard that Audi is going to put an "S" line to several models in the upcoming year(s) to make them look and drive more sporty. I like that idea. I can't wait to see what the A6 2.7T will look like. I'm driving a 2003 3.0 quattro right now, and my lease won't end until 2006. I wonder if Audi will let me out of my lease if I lease the A6 2.7T "S". I guess I'm dreaming.

markcincinnati · January 2004

But what can it hurt or cost to ask?

andys120 · January 2004

I think you'll have plenty of company. I dislike the new Audi grille style very much.

It's such a shame to spoil the best styled sedans and wagons on the market with such an ugly device. Not only is it ugly but it contravenes the whole modern styling philosophy of clean functional forward looking styling.

The big vertical grille is an excessively retro element IMO. I've seen some complaints on GCF.com

markcincinnati · January 2004

I "sort of" like the look of the new Audis -- the change from the previous look to the current one was fairly radical too.

Styling is subjective -- while I am hardly smitten with the new design, it would not make me leave Audi.

timcar · January 2004

I'd been looking for some spy shots of the new A6. I copied your link for anyone else who wants to find it easily.

http://www.autoweek.com/search/search_display.mv?port_code=autowe- - - ek&cat_code=carnews&content_code=02394112&Search_Type- - - =STD&Search_ID=1856748&record=4

The new grill being discussed has been reported via quotes of Audi AG folks as the new corporately mandated grill for ALL new Audi's. The just introduced A8 has been redesigned with it too. I've seen pix of the new W12 A8 with it.

My reaction is pretty much the same; What, has Audi been selling too many cars? But the new grill really isn't. It's supposed to establish a strong corporate look (Mercedes envy?) by incorporating the grill from Audi's 1930's record setting Auto's and race cars. I first saw it in full vigor on the new Pike's Peak. My reaction? Yikes!!!

But since I've seen various sneak/spy/guesses that incorporate it, my strong initial negative reaction has mellowed. As I was looking at the Audi AG official photos of the new A8 W12, I realized that the new grill has actually been with us at least since our current generation A6 was introduced. Guess what? If you incorporate the area between the upper and lower old grills, which is part of the front bumper, into the grill, you've got the new grill! And since there will still be a division in the massive new grill for what will have to be a front bumper, and it will have to house a license plate in most places, I don't know if the new grill is really all that radical.

I don't know if I'll ever come love it, but I might just learn not to hate it. I kinda liked some Acura designs until the new corporate grill was introduced about 10 years ago. Horrors! Then I saw the latest Acura, the TL, and thought, YUK! After seeing it in the flesh, it surprised me as looking pretty good. Maybe even better than pretty good. The Audi grill may come to grow on us.

I have a bit more skepticism concerning Autoweek's spy shots. I would not only be disappointed if these pix are of the new A6, but also very surprised. I may be wrong, but I think they are Photoshopped. I've been looking at spy/sneak/artist renderings of the new A6 for about a year. These are among the LEAST radical I've seen. In fact, except for new front and rear ends, it looks to me to be IDENTICAL to the existing A6. Look at the greenhouse! This isn't a new design; it's exactly our present A6's with a new front and rear end slapped on. If this is what the new A6 actually turns out to look like, I will know for sure the Dr. P has it in for Audi and has sent all of it's former design talent to Lamborghini and Bentley!

cpeterson3 · January 2004

Hello all. Some feedback please on purchasing an 2001 A6 2.8Q with 25,266 miles certified by dealer for $25K flat. What makes it interesting to me is the ext. warranty and basicaly free money AOA is offering on 60 month financing @ 2.9%.

thanks

markcincinnati · January 2004

Today, I received an email from Audi touting the A6 S-line. I eagerly opened it and clicked through at the appropriate places.

The S-line A6 2.7T with 265HP (and I assume MORE than 258 pound feet of torque) is now the "top o the line" [performer] A6 and it is .4 seconds less quick than the outgoing non-S-line A6 250hp (6speed manual).

So this new -- swan song -- 2.7T A6 is brought to the market with "more performance" orientation, bigger whhels, more powerful engine, more aggressive "intentions." And it comes with the lag ridden tiptronic as the ONLY transmission.

?

I have to check the BMW web site and see if they have eliminated the manual transmissions from the 5 series (perhaps they have).

If you want a high performance Audi, your current choices are the old A6 2.7T with a stick shift or the new S4. This S-line is a very nice car and a reasonable value and I am certain is not a bad car at all. But if you want the higher performance that the S-line suggests, you will be disappointed.

Try to find a new 2004 2.7T A6 6spd [non-S-line] with as many of the sporting bits as were avail on the option sheet. You will have higher performance than the new S-line 2.7T.

Once again, I must ask: what are they thinking to bring out a lower performance vehicle and tout it as their "higher performance" version?

From a certain point of view their statements are accurate -- it DOES offer higher engine performance (on a test bench), but lower "automobile" (as in the whole car) performance than a car that is, in effect, no longer current -- the 2004 A6 2.7T 6spd manual.

Use small words to explain this to me -- I must be dense.

P.S. this S-line widens, even more (via perception, [non-permissible content removed] for tat), the performance distance between itself and the A6 4.2. The outgoing 250HP 2.7T was rated at 6.6 seconds to 100kph with a tip, the new one is 6.4 seconds and the 4.2 is 6.7 seconds -- and the old 2.7T A6 was 6.0 with a non lag ridden 6spd manual.

In English: when you pay more for a car because it has the "big" engine under the hood, because it has the big hp numbers (300 on up) and it is beaten by a significantly less costly virtually identical car, it doesn't make sense.

Note: I had two A6 4.2's and I did test drive the A6 2.7T before I purhcased the second 4.2 -- the 4.2 did have a different "feel" to it, as if it were cut from a block of solid aluminum (or steel or whatever your alloy of choice is); and I appreciated the sound of the V8 and the more aggressive fenders and "running boards." Now, I have lived with a 6spd 2.7T allroad for 16 months and much as I like all the A6 4.2's "stuff," it just galls me to think that I could move up the pecking order and take a drop in performance, yet have to endure a rather large increase in price.

shipo · January 2004

The 545i 6-Speed still exists, and God willing and the creeks don't rise, it will for quite some time yet. Better still is that if you can get past the new E60's looks (I cannot and WAS looking to the A6 2.7t 6-Speed as my current E39 5er's replacement), the new car no longer is subject to the Gas Guzzler tax. :-/

Best Regards,
Shipo

markcincinnati · January 2004

Yet NO Audi 4.2 V8 equpped car (other than the S4) is available with a manual transmission? -- no matter how high the stack of $100 bills.

Something ain't right, it just ain't right!

I had so hoped for an S6 (4.2 340 hp) with a 6spd.

The tip versions don't do it for me. And, I would actually pay more for a stick -- yet they price things just the opposite or there is no price difference.

shipo · January 2004

"And, I would actually pay more for a stick..."

Yeah, me too. :-/

Best Regards,
Shipo

liferules · January 2004

The new A6 will be debuted at the Geneva Auto Show in March.

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=02394112

davking · January 2004

We keep reading these interviews with VW and Audi execs in which they tell us that Audi is to become the sporting brand. The first, defining element of a sport car is a manual transmission. Then they don't supply that element, at least to the NA market. My 40 hp. 1956 Morris Minor 1000 was more sporting than what Audi is offering in the A6 line, with the exception of the S6. I, too, don't understand.

ctorrey · January 2004

In response to dwongsong's email, I completely agree. The incoming "fish mouth" look is just too much to take - very BMWesque in its execution (i.e., "look at me" styling - IMHO). Where do you go with the retro-styling that seems to be envogue? With the new - or 70's - Mustang, what does Ford do in 5 years? Build a car based on the '86 'stang GT? What a great car that was.

If the new A6/S4/etc are anything like the new "Audi corporate" look that's permeated recent spy pics, I'm out - and I'm running out of German car makes! BMW? Ugh!! Porsche 996? Terrible (and resale proves it - a '99 996 goes for less than the last of the real Porsches - the 993), MB? Not looking so bad at this point. I'm hoping to get the AMG version of the AMG version of the E-class. Suddenly very un-exclusive.

Audi A6

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