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Audi A6

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  • I assume that the training on the 6speed tip is the same as on the 5speed. If it is not, well as Emily Latella used to say "never mind."

     

    Turn the key to the on position -- do not start the car, however. Completely depress the accelerator pedal (you may feel a very slight resistance when you think the pedal is all the way down -- increase the pressure on the pedal just a bit to see if you can press through the resistance. Don't get carried away, this is not major resistance -- another couple of pounds of pressure from your foot is what I am suggesting.)

     

    Theoretically, if you perform this action, the computer is sent a reset command (think alt control delete).

     

    The transmission is supposed to learn your habits, but it also has a "prime directive" and that is upshift, upshift, dance to the music, upshift.

     

    The only way to override this directive is to force the transmission to stay in gear for a bit longer than "it wants to." And, the only way to do this is to start from a standing start with a bit more throttle tip -- think "jackrabbit" start (but this does not mean you need to floor the car from dead stop with the selector in D. It just means that instead of driving like there was an uncooked egg in the shell between your foot and the pedal, you will press slightly harder, perhaps hard enough to break the imaginary egg.)

     

    What this will do is make the car "believe" that it needs to -- of its own "free will" -- remain in first gear longer than 1 foot or 2 or 3 mph whichever comes first.

     

    This tip lag effect was most pronouced on my A8 and my second A6 (a 2001 model) with the 4.2 engine. Sometimes I would come to a NEAR full stop (perhaps at a yield sign, for instance) and press the pedal and literally nothing would happen for perhaps a second or a second and a half -- usually about three quarters of a second into this "routine" I would either become irritated, frustrated or "panic" due to on-coming traffic or overtaking traffic if this situation occurred on an entrance ramp to a freeway. Then at three quarters of a second I would floor the accelerator and the car (remember I was in the 4.2 V8) would LUNGE forward -- and if I had passengers they either thought I was a poor driver or that I had had temporary engine cut-out (which, after all, is exactly what it feels like).

     

    I test drove a 2002 S6 and did not notice this "feature." I have read and re-read about the RS6 and it too lacked this feature.

     

    It HAS to be the programming, it really is a feature -- I believe it is designed to do this, not that it is a "bug." I do not know if the European market gets this release of the software, but I cannot imagine this is anything other than "the way it is told to operate."

     

    Ultimately, I got rid of the car opting for a 2003 allroad (which at the time was the ONLY A6 based Audi that could be had with a stick shift -- people ask me why I wanted a station wagon, which I didn't want, and technically didn't buy as the allroad is a crossover car -- but I digress.)

     

    I have test driven, three times, the new A6, once for a long long time -- I did NOT notice this "feature" -- but I 100% believe you have it.

     

    DBW or Tip-lag -- heck I'm not automotive engineer or transmission programmer. But I do know this, it is NOT unique to Audi. It has been "fixed" but first you have to find the right person within Audi who will understand and who can authorize a change to the software to mitigate this "feature."

     

    It is particularly hard to "fix" something that technically isn't broken.

     

    The "S" mode seems to be a work-around that alleviates this issue -- just remember once you hit the freeway to move back to D for improved economy (and from time to time, floor the accelerator -- let it know "who is der boss!")

     

    To repeat this is the 5speed tip story -- I can and have only assumed this is applicable to the 6speed.

     

    Doh!

     

    Homer out!
  • Mark--

     

    There are a number of posts on the forums at Audiworld suggesting that the very solution you describe is equally applicable to the 2005. There are also some suggestions as to how to use VAG-COM to reprogram your engine computer...

     

    FWIW, I plan on sticking to the "floor it" solution. Messing with my Gateweay is one thing; reprogramming my $50K auto is quite another!

     

    --Scott
  • Apparently so, but anytime I have mentioned another automotive web site, my post has been purged. We'll see if your's is retained.

     

    I would not want my car reprogrammed externally either. I was not endorsing such an approach.

     

    What I would really want is for ALL of us to petition Audi of America to bring the manual versions to our shores -- and train the sales reps to demo them.

     

    Drive one of these machines with a stick shift and it will change your mind -- Oh, I guess that means hi tail it over to the local BMW store and ask to test drive a new 2005 5 series with a stick, as far as I know they still come with this as a choice.

     

    All I hear about is "emissions" regulations prohibit AoA from bringing this to our shores.

     

    Until or unless they update the programming at the factory, I would opt for a 6speed manual in a heartbeat.

     

    My wife REFUSES, which is stronger than my approach, to even consider an automatic. I will go ahead and get one but probably be somewhat disappointed that a stick was not available.

     

    I just don't see the attraction of the manual given its (and this is NOT just Audi) current weaknesses. Perhaps a CVT or DSG would be OK, if avail on the A6 lineup.

     

    Let's all give me a pity party.

     

    There, I'm over it.
  • jeqqjeqq Posts: 216
    Hi Mark,

    Manuals are fine by me, but why should there be any lag in the Audi automatics? I haven't driven the BMW 530 that much, but I did not feel any lag and they also have auto/tip.
  • I recently compared the two vehicles in the title (since the 2005 S4 is not yet available in NA) on numerous variables--one of which was fuel consumption. The model comparison tool on www.audiusa.com's Web site indicated that fuel consumption for the A6 is 17/23 while consumption for the S4 is 15/21. Standard tires on the A6 are 245 mm wide while on the S4 are 235 mm wide (the A6 hypothetically has a very slightly larger contact patch with correspondingly greater friction on dry pavement). The A6 weighs 300+ pounds more than the S4 (comparably equipped). The 4.2 liter engine--although tuned slightly differently in each model (with emphasis on the word slightly)--is the same engine.

     

    If anything, I expected the fuel consumption figures for the S4 to be higher than for the A6. I have to assume the comparison figures--most likely from AOA--are incorrect. Does anyone have more accurate data?
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,688
    Based on my short ride in a DSG/TT 3.2 I can assure you there is NO LAG whatsoever. It shifts faster than any human being could, even the ones named Schumacher, Montoya, Hakkinen and the like.

     

    Beats me why Audi and VW don't make some noise about this cool setup.

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • My lease on a 2002 A6 2.7T 6M is up in March and AOA is not selling a manual for 2005. My wife and I love the car - it's the best one we ever had. But we will not drive automatics, not even a Tip. So I am moving down to the 2006 A4 with 6M, and a 2006 BMW 330xi 6M for my wife. This way, we both get AWD and a 6-spd manual. I'm not waiting for Audi to realize that the manual has a market here. If they want to lose market share in the A6 to other makers, that doesn't bother me one bit. Let them find out the hard way.
  • It's me again with the one week old 2005 A6 3.2l. Aside from the acceleration lag, I am having a devil of a time getting used to the brakes, which have a very hard bite. Should I ask the dealer to back them off a bit? I'm concerned that the snow and ice will be hard to drive in with brakes that stop the car if your foot so much as twitches. Ideas? TVettel in Minneapolis.
  • maui19maui19 Posts: 31
    I have a '05 A6 and I am facing the same thing. My throttle problem is not lag, but non-linear response. Press a little, the car goes a little. Press a little more, and the car shoots forward. I reset the throttle using Mark's technique from above, and the throttle response is much more linear (and therefore far more controllable). But after a day or so of driving, the car has re-adapted to its twitchy self.

     

    I too find the brakes horribly touchy at low speeds. Just the slightest press at low speeds will cause the nose to dive and the car to lurch almost completely to a stop. I am actually looking forward to slippery conditions because then the ABS will kick in and smooth things out.

     

    This is bad enough that I may be taking the car in for service.

     

    BTW, I am the one who posted Mark's tip on Audiworld.
  • jeqqjeqq Posts: 216
    Definitely go in and have them fix both problems. Let us know what the outcome is. This doesn't sound good to me.
  • The new A6 is in my mind 7/8ths the previous A6. If manual still exists, I think it should suffice. At 50k, an S4 is on bargin, and one with a manual!

     

    IMHO the new A6 has gone up town to a larger, more posh luxury class that does not make sense for a Manual.

     

    I love the manual and am conflicted. I don't know if I want a automatic, but at the same time don't know if the new A6 is the right car for the manual.

     

     For lease purpose's, a 3.2 might not make sense. a 4.2 would be a blast though!

     

    I like the quattro and understand the penalty of power to have it. My 2.7t 6sp is a blast, but with no turbo, a 3.2 might not be so much fun.

     

    I like the rear seat room in the A6 not found in the A4, or the 5 series BMW. 5 series with no Quattro, is also not appealing.

     

    A premium a6 3.2 with a list of about 46.5$ is a nice compromise, even if I have to have an TIP!

     

    I still have a ways to go with the allroad, and still enjoy this car in so many ways! Hey Kev!
  • You must be one of the first buyers of the new A6 here in Minneapolis. Was the vehicle purchased from Carousel or Maplewood?

     

    You could have warped brake rotors. My '00 A6 2.7T went through 4 sets of factory front rotors, (replaced under warranty)all to no avail. Finally put on a set of aftermarket Zimmerman drilled rotors @60,000 miles and this worked good until recently. Now, (at 70,000) when hitting the brakes from 75mph+, the telltale "shake" is back until the car slows to about 60 mph. Had the front tie rod ends replaced,didn't help, same problem. One mechanic told me that the lower/upper control arms need to be replaced, this is a suspension defect, more than a brake rotor issue. I'm not sure about throwing in another $1100 with no guarantee of solving the problem.
  • A "cure" for the twitchy return is to reset the computer once per day, first time you get in.

     

    I cannot think of another cure that would be appropriate and "safe."
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,290
    postings may help explain why some of us are really, really (really) reluctant to buy an Audi.

     

    No matter how much we enjoy renting them.
  • I have so much money invested in this Audi A6 2.7T, couldn't afford to sell it now. Everything works fine @ 70,000 miles EXCEPT the brake "vibration" issue from the higher speeds. Sure would be nice to solve the problem! Didn't find out until recently that the A6 of that vintage has chronic front end/brake issues that are unique to that model.
  • Just to ease some nervous readers' minds,

     

    I've had my C6 3.2 since late October and have over 1000 miles on it (broke it in gently...). I have noticed a minimal hesitation when driving it in regular drive at a stop if quickly stopping then stepping on the accelerator. ONLY in that situation. If at a stop light and then starting, I have noticed no "lag". I don't want people to get too freaked out about this. I have also found that I have learned how to push the accelerator just right to avoid the lag. It takes a little practice but can be done. Granted, this is different from driving my wife's Taurus, but with drive-by-the-wire, you have to give some concessions... I have not noticed any of the brake issues that others have mentioned. My brakes are solid, and I have no problems with sudden "rapid decelleration", etc... As above mentioned, there is a built in computer program to "help" with braking if you brake suddenly but not hard enough to assist with collision avoidance. I have no experience with this (thankfully).

     

    The car is a joy to drive. It is the best ride I've ever had (obviously I'm biased, but I think many would agree). It is sporty but also luxurious, something that Mercedes and BMW are missing respectively. I have not had to "reset" the computer every day when I drive...I wouldn't buy the car if I had to... Maybe I trained it more aggressively but I've not had too much problems and don't want people to feel this is such a huge problem. It is a small problem that some people are having, others such as myself aren't. Just MHO.
  • maui19maui19 Posts: 31
    Well, I can tell you that my A6 is the best car I've ever owned. It is so much better than my MB E320 it almost defies comparison. It is powerful, agile and handles like a dream. It is also very luxurious, quiet and extremely well appointed. In the overall scheme of things, a little twitchiness in a high performance car is a minor thing. I also think it is something that can be easily fixed. I have one of the very first A6 4.2 sold in my area, and I fully expect some teething pains. At this point in my Mercedes' life, I had replaced the radio twice, the CD player once, and had two headrest motors replaced. I have not one regret about getting my car. I wouldn't trade it for any other car out there right now.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,290
    Happy to hear you're enjoying your Audi. Tell me more in five years, after you have 125K miles on it.

     

    "Happiness = Reality - Expectations"

     

    Sounds like MB set your expectations at about the right level.
  • I do not absolutely know that every European car of recent vintage that uses the Audi auto transmission manufacturer has the "lag" problem -- I do know that Audi is NOT the only company with customers mentioning "lag."

     

    I would be the first to agree that NOT being alone in this regard is no excuse and at the prices charged by Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, etc., this is not "expected."

     

    However, those that notice this "feature" must be in the minority, or the offending program would not be tolerated.

     

    Even this does not excuse such a feature, especially when it has been extricated from the S and RS version (of Audi, and I presume the M versions of BMW, for example).

     

    Despite my personal dislike for this feature, I did find that turning the key "on" depressing the pedal to the floor and then starting the car was a non-issue and very much just like "setting the choke" of carborated cars that many of us grew up with.

     

    This may evoke still more critical comments from some on this board -- and we will have to put up with them, free country and all.

     

    I have owned some 27+ Audis and each one of them has been superior to older Audis, even if I have fond memories of my S6 (1995).

     

    My current 2003 allroad, at 41,000 miles (which will probably underwhelm some folks) is the best Audi I have ever had. If I go with the new A6, I expect it will be yet another improvement.

     

    My understanding of the auto transmission lag is only part of the reason I would prefer a manual transmission, in fact it is a relatively small reason.

     

    I will probably not convince anyone to be motivated to insist upon a stick shift. If this ONE factor is a deal breaker, you are probably buying a BMW 3 or 5 series since they remain available with sticks. No words, however compelling will actually force you to move to a stick car -- clearly there is little $ incentive offered.

     

    However, despite my explanation of a technique to work around tip lag and my suggestion that you consider a daily reset of the DBW computer, I still believe that Audis deserve to be considered as Premium sporty luxury cars.

     

    Nothing I have personally experienced makes me believe that Audis are great to rent but not to own.

     

    I encourage you, if you like the car, to buy it -- it, you will not be disappointed. You may not even ever experience tip lag. As far as I can tell, most people don't even notice it.

     

    I also hope these forums attract owners and those who will or are already seriously considering the acquisition of the brand in question.

     

    I believe it will be difficult for Acrua or Chrysler to convince me to switch brands -- but I am going to seriously consider them and while I participate on their forums I believe it would be both inappropriate and disingenuous to criticize the brands as a non owner and debate the the merits of ownership with owners.

     

    I can speak in favor or Audis as a long time, repeat owner of the brand.

     

    While I state that I would not have one out of warranty, this also applies to any brand.

     

    Life to date, Audis have performed very well and been, relatively speaking, bargains.

     

    I don't know if the new A6, for example, is still a bargain. On paper it seems too highly priced from a lease perspective -- but I presume this will change within 60 days.

     

    In any case, a lot of the current gen of European cars are similar, almost "all the same"- if you don't car for new European cars, state your case and your reasons and leave the rest of us to discuss the car rather than simply beat up the marquis.
  • maui19maui19 Posts: 31
    My E320 had throttle lag. You could press the throttle, step out and make a cup of coffee, and return before the car would accelerate. My A6 moves as soon as you step on the gas.
  • jeqqjeqq Posts: 216
    That's very funny! I'll have mine with cream no sugar please.
  • johnejohne Posts: 17
    I've become used to this. You're right though, they are more sensitive at low speeds. I've had a blast driving this car in Colorado in the mountains (3.2 6 CYL)...more stable at speeds than older models, acceleration good. FUN.

     

    It was weird...today, I left frigid Crested Butte Colorado when it was 6 below zero (car outside). The radio and CD didn't work for about 20 minutes. Then it all worked. Apparently the cold. It wasn't just XM reception (resulting perhaps from ice on the antenna) because FM, AM and CD didn't work either.
  • I had it on my 2000 A8. Very strange, as almost every other car I've owned in the luxury market has not been affected this way.

     

    When I would start the A8 in lower than 30* temps, the gauges would take about 5 minutes to display and the radio wouldn't power up.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,290
    Well put, as always.

     

    I'll take that "inappropriate & disingenuous" remark under advisement.
  • jeqqjeqq Posts: 216
    I have to say that your comments don't bother me at all. In fact I welcome them. A forum is by definition a place where people can discuss things openly and freely. I find these forums to be highly entertaining and informative. I find out about problems and fixes for the cars I am interested in. These forums have helped me tremendously in my research and purchase of a new car. They give me an in depth look into pricing and leasing info, extremely important to have when you purchase a car.

     

    We have rules here and one of them is civility. Just like in politics, red states vs. the blue states; although we may disagree in the end we live together peacefully and continue to work towards a building a better future for our country.

     

    So please feel free to post here.
  • my allroad with 26k on it has been just fine. Only puton new tires thus far!

     

    My remote keeps going dead every few months, but thats a small issue.

     

    The tiplag issue is an old story well documented.

    The brake thing, well, it will be fixed.

     

    All high tech german cars have these "niggles" of things that go wrong.

     

    The first month, of the big model change over is bound to have a few quirks. That is the price to pay to have the latest and greatest. This is true with many Japenese cars. My toyota sienna had a gas tank recall the first month!

     

    It happens, the more toys and complicated goodies ont eh car, the more problems. Regardless of the price. The idrive on bmw 7 series is killing the car, and its reputation!
  • Audi's do not like cold weather! My '00A62.7T heater fan blower motor makes a "racket" when it gets to 10F or so.

     

    On a cold start morning, the turbo's used to "whine" until the engine would warm up to some degree. Then took Mark's suggestion and switched to 0 w 40 mobil 1 synthetic which made cold starts a breeze. Couldn't believe the contrast from using 5 w 30 conventional oil. Highly recommend 0 w 40 synthetic, atleast for turbo owners!
  • . . dissent is wecome, needed in fact. However, it is difficult for me to imagine that one who has not had the experiences or may not ever consider a brand for whatever reason can be lent much credence.

     

    I have read, for example, plenty on the new RL -- most of it good. I have test driven the TL, and I liked everything about it, except torque steer. The torque steer was so bad it disqualfied the car for me. Now, therefore, I do not go on the TL board and beat up the brand (and perhaps by association the buyers) just because I found the torque steer (on the stick shift version) to be dangerous and unacceptable. I stated my opinions ONCE and do not rain on the parades of the many proud mamas and papas (of their bouncing new baby Acuras).

     

    The new A6 (with 3 whole test drives under my belt) is the best Audi I have ever driven (it way outdid my 1997 A8 -- but, that is expected, hoped for, indeed).

     

    My final decision will be [probably, according to my wife] the A4 family versus the A6 3.2. I may find the 3.2 A4 S-Line (if timing works in my favor) will be some $6,000 or more less and due to the lower weight will be a much better performing car.

     

    But I still plan to test the Acura RL and the 300C AWD -- this weekend for the first time ever, I saw an Acura parked on the dealer lot -- 1 of them -- I assume this one must be the test drive model. The week after Christmas, I'm there.

     

    Bring on the posters, bring on da noise (and da funk) -- and it IS OK not to like something and share your dislike. But if your reason is "just because" -- well that is like my buddy who won't eat beets -- he's never had them, but he knows he won't like them -- "just because."

     

    The new A6 is the best Audi -- ever -- so far.
  • I'm betting you'll like the way the RL handles, but you'll get annoyed at some of the little things missing that you're probably used to from the Audi. Examples include no passenger seat height adjustment, less adjustable seat, "only" dual stage seat heaters, no rear seat heaters, no RDS on the radio. The other thing that you'll probably find--and what ultimately kept me in an Audi rather than over to Acura--is that the RL feels like a luxury car with some sport tuning, while the A6 is a sport car with luxury features.

     

    Both are fine cars. Ideally, I'd create some sort of frankenstein's monster from the two, but we can't have everything in this world.
  • 2005 Acura RL was the only one of 18 vehicles tested to earn the government’s highest rating, five stars, for front and side-impact crash tests and rollover prevention, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said Monday. Where's the A6 on this important rating ?

     

    http://wardsauto.com/ar/auto_muscle_economy_ways/index.htm

     

    Well we know that both Audi and Acura make nice engines.
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