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Audi A6

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Comments

  • jeqqjeqq Member Posts: 221
    I have a 3.2 and do not have acceleration issues. I have very smooth acceleration from a standstill and you should too. It seems that some cars have this problem. Make sure the dealer takes care of this.
  • luckylindyluckylindy Member Posts: 10
    That's comforting--it should mean that they can do something about it (believe me, you would know it you had the problem!). I await the attempted fix!
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I can assure you that all tiptronics have this issue. It is a feature. Some folks adapt to it, some folks assume it will adapt to them.

     

    Other than your report, I have "never seen no one" that did not experience this to one degree or another.

     

    Primarily it is from the rolling stop where the "danger" is perceived, FWIW.
  • luckylindyluckylindy Member Posts: 10
    You are correct--it is primarily from a rolling stop where the problem occurs, although it also occurred once at30 mph when I was changing lanes. It is more than the equivalent of "turbo lag"--I have had both turbocharged and supercharged autos before and know what that is like--nothing like this where it "dies" for 2 to 3 seconds or so--it is very disconcerting to maneuver in traffic as it is sporadic and i can't "plan" for it.

     

    As to my current status, Audi is now "checking with tech" and I should know more soon. Thanks for your interest and comments.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    There are some options. Several Audi tuners have come up with with tip chips. Some have even suggested (I would assume with some merit) that the DBW system may be the cause. The fact that the systems are linked and controlled by a "mangement" computer does or could complicate this somewhat.

     

    Apparently the software for the higher performance varieties of Audis (S and RS) seem to have all but vanquished this featre. But, the trade off seems to be "crisper" shifts.

     

    I have never seen this reported with either the manual transmissions or the CVT or the DSG for that matter. Perhaps there are such instances, perhaps those folks don't yet participate in such forums as the one we are in as I write this.

     

    I think the primary response you will receive is a polite version of "suck it up."

     

    Again, try to reset the computer each and every time you get behind the wheel. It was not all that long ago when depressing the accelerator pedal to "set the butterfly choke" was standard, normal operating procedure, especially in winter.

     

    We want it all: super smooth shifting, adaptive transmissions, more gears, hill sensing, and on and on and on. This is not meant to excuse this situation -- perhaps my intention is more of an explanation.

     

    My hidden agenda of course is to convert y'all back to manual transmission. And pigs will fly.
  • rjlaerorjlaero Member Posts: 659
    I think "tip-lag" can vary from car to car and year to year.

     

    The new 05 3.2's are non-turbo and the lag is very little....if any at all. The cars felt very responsive.

     

    But I drove an '04 A6 4.2 w/ 300 hp. My foot went ALL the way to the floor on the gas pedal and it had a pronounced lag.

     

    Go figure.
  • luckylindyluckylindy Member Posts: 10
    I agree--I haven't experienced any discernible tip lag, per se--actually, when the car does not go "dead" for 2 seconds, the acceleration is very quick and a little difficult to modulate. I note the current issue of Motor has a comparison of 6 sports sedans, including the A6--and it notes a jerky acceleration in the A6--didn't mention it for the other 5 autos. Thanks for your thots.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Long story, shortened a little: my wife and I have been buying Audis since 1977, encouraging others to test drive and buy them too. Visited the holy land, Ingolstadt, 6 times, been to the Audi driving school in Austria 4 times, wear Audi clothes for Pete's sake, have Audi wrist watches and neckties and are invited to the Audi dealer's Christmas parties as if "we're part of the family." BLa Bla Bla, you've heard the tales from my keyboard over the past years.

     

    You also know the angst we are having with the current new product -- great cars (the A6) great upcoming cars (the A3 and A4 family) -- they seem to no longer be appropriately priced from a leasing point of view. Overpriced compared with other Eurozone programs and way overpriced when compared to BMW's (one would think, Audis mortal enemy).

     

    Where I am going with all of this is here:

     

    Today, I received a letter at my office (to me, not an "occupant" letter) from a Chrysler dealer that my wife and I visited (about a month ago) to test the 300C AWD (as you may recall, the car was sold before we got there, and we weren't allowed to drive it). While I was there, I gave the salesrep my biz card. Guy told me to come back after the Cincinnati Auto Show (2/16 - 2/20/2005).

     

    Meantime, the new A4 is released 5 weeks ahead of schedule -- so I call my Audi dealer and ask if there are any "comp tickets" for the auto show (they are $20 bucks a pair). Dealer says no, they don't have them.

     

    Now, back to the letter I received today. In the personal letter, Chrysler told me how they want me as a customer and, well, you can imagine the rest -- very nicely done. And, BTW, Mark, we would like you to be our guests at the 2005 Cincinnati Auto show, we are enclosing 2 complimentary tickets and a pass that allows you to go to the head of the line, bypassing the riff raff and saving you 30 to 40 minutes of your valuable time, yadda, yadda, yadda. Again, well done, professional and a tiny bit flattering.

     

    I feel soooo special. Seriously, a nice touch.

     

    When I was back in graduate school, taking courses that were part of the MBA program, one of the courses was "marketing 601" or something like that. In that course we were taught that it takes 5 times as much "energy" (resources, time, money) to attract a new customer as it does to keep a current customer.

     

    I have no clue how much comp tickets actually cost a dealer or a car company (my tickets are from Chrysler corporation, the tickets themselves do not have the dealer's name on them.)

     

    Well you can see where I'm going with this rant -- we have purchased over 27 cars (all Audis) from one Cincinnati dealership since 1977. In 10 - 12 weeks we must order 2 new cars (regardless of their country of manufacture, the lead times we have been quoted are all about 11 - 15 weeks.) The Audi dealer knows this. We are ripe for being rolled out of two 2003 Audis into two new ones (2005.5 or possibly 2006's based on build dates). They have all our records on file, we're pre-approved with Audi financial, have the loyalty bonus thing going for us and well, we are very vocal and enthusiastic Audi mavens.

     

    What is up with this?

     

    I stopped by to test a Chryco car, still am planning to (Saturday, in fact) -- and I get freebie tickets. I spend a fortune with Audi, heck, two fortunes and one time ask for a free ticket and get blown off?

     

    Mountain out of a molehill? Yea, maybe. But darn it, this is the kind of the Princess and the Pea thing that really can keep you awake at night.

     

    I expected to be treated well at Mercedes, we were -- you know received the hand written thank you card; ditto Acura and Volvo and Infiniti. No card from Chrysler, but -- hey, nice touch on the show tickets. We would go anyway, but free tickets are always nice (like they say in Charlie's Angles, "tickets, I love tickets!")

     

    All other things being on a level playing field, tickets will not motivate us to buy a car we don't want over one that we do. But if, using this as an example only, the Chrysler 300C was an acceptable alternative to the Audi, was priced right and the stars were in alignment, well, I wouldn't forget the free tickets -- and if the decision was close, those freebies just might pull us in their direction.

     

    I would like some cheese with this whine, too, he said.

     

    Waaaaa!

     

    Of course, I could be wrong.
  • bazohimbabazohimba Member Posts: 14
    Mark, I left a message on the 300C forum regarding your concern about Audi's pricing itself outta the market. I,too am concerned, drove a CTS and a 300C, priced an STS... See my post on the 300C page. Thanks, and good to see your comments.

     

    jk
  • rjlaerorjlaero Member Posts: 659
    I don't see Audi pricing itself out of the market. In fact, the A6 is thousands less than BMW and Mercedes.

     

    A 4matic AWD E320 is about $5-7,000 more than an a similarly equipped A6 quattro. Loaded up with Nav, Bose, cold weather, and most of the other goodies, your right around 50K for the Quattro A6 3.2. You can get the 340hp 4.2 V8 w/ nav and most of the goodies for around 55K. That's a good 10 grand less than an E500.

     

    The Bimmer 540 V8 is about 60 grand similarly equipped to the 4.2 Quattro and it's not all wheel drive.

     

    They're all nice cars and it's not all about money. People buy what they want in this price class and have their loyalties.

     

    The new Infiniti M45 cars are not cheap, either, and the prices are about the same as the A6.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Configure a BMW 530 as close as possible to an Audi A6 3.2. You are right -- the BMW is about $4000 more MSRP than the Audi. The BMW is more than $100 a month less on a 36 month closed end lease @ 15,000 miles per year.

     

    Next, decontent the BMW to $52,000 and check the lease calcs again. Sit down first.

     

    My point is something like this:

     

    Mercedes = Old Money

    BMW = New Money

    Audi = Smart Money

     

    Heard this for years -- Audis, apples to apples have virtually always been higher content, higher luxury and AWD for a lower price than the BMW. Yep the Bimmers often are ranked #1 in handling or balance or "at the limit" -- on a test circuit.

     

    Audis had their following from folks like me (and my wife and I did buy ONE BMW 325ix in 1988 -- and even though it was a demo it was less well equipped and more expensive by far than the 1990 Audi coupe quattro we replaced it with.) And, for years, the beat went on.

     

    My Audi dealer says the majority of Audis are leased, not in cash, not financed. Some of us use our cars in biz. Leasing makes sense.

     

    My accountant, of these many years says rent what depreciates and buy what appreciates. Cars are in the former category.

     

    At this moment in time, Audis cost more than the competition if the on-line web sites are to be believed.

     

    The Audis style like BMW's is a personal preference -- but I personally like the looks of the new A6 (soon to be across the board).

     

    Audis do NOT have the reputation -- in the US -- that BMW has; truth be told BMW leads Audi here.

     

    I, for the life of me, cannot understand why -- other than the "new money" moniker. Now, however, there are reasons to consider BMW's as being the destination of Smart Money.

     

    To have the youngest, some would say most dynamic product line in the class and KNOW that new AWD 5 and 3 series will be here, this year, and price your car over $100 per month more does not accomplish the gaining of needed market share.

     

    Audi is in need of a continuation of its differentiation -- something that has been relatively easy when you have all models available with AWD, full maintenance at no additional cost and a great 50,000 mile no questions asked warranty. Now, however, when the other premium cars have come to market with AWD, free maintenance and/or longer, stronger warranties (60,000 miles anyone?) -- and often with better performance, better fuel economy and more or less "better" accolades from the motoring press . . . well you can see the deck starting to be stacked against Audi.

     

    I see the M35, Acura RL and the upcoming 5 and 3 series BMW's not to mention whatever Cadillac has up its sleeve as products that blur the once easily differentiated Audi image -- since they all have copied, IMHO, Audis features and value proposition. But then to go one further and undercut the price that most folks pay by thousands out of pocket for the normal three year ownership term -- this is at the very least unsettling.

     

    Frankly I would rather, all things being equal, have an Audi. But if the competion offers more or the same for equal to or less than. . . well, what is a customer to do?
  • bazohimbabazohimba Member Posts: 14
    Yep, Mark, I priced out a new A6 3.2 this morning, and you're right about the expense to lease. My heart skipped a beat when I recalled my '02 2.7T. It was the MOST luxurious, capable, etc.. car I've ever driven. The 3.2 in my TT is exceptional and would be adequate, saving a few bucks over the V8. Point is... the residual is killing Audis for leasing. It's sad. I agree about BMWs being over hyped. NOT interested! My rich architect brother in Houston has driven Mercedes for years... OLD MAN's car, IMHO. Please, guys no debate, simply my opinion. i.e., I have no money in the decision, so no arguement intended by my comments.
  • liferulesliferules Member Posts: 531
    Bottom line: Audi's are still reasonably priced for buying and outclass the competition with lux/style combination, IMO. Their leases are not special whatsoever, and it appears BMW is willing to take a big hit for their lease incentives, that Audi is not.

     

    Given BMW's lease rates, it would almost be silly to buy the car as the leasers get a better deal. Opposite with Audi's.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,495
    Sounds like your put is that an Audi should be bought. . .and held. Let's just say that's an opinion I haven't heard here before. . .and I've been listening.

     

    Buying and holding is what I do with cars. Keeping up with this board has given me pause, at least with respect to Audi -- Keeping one as long as an Infiniti M car (or G for that matter) will last appears to me to be, well, masochistic at best.

     

    The mantra I've heard again and again (and believe, I might add) is "breathtakingly expensive" repairs lie in wait for those who "go bare" with respect to warranty coverage. At some point, that extended warranty runs out. Few in this board live in that world, but it does happen.

     

    I've thought for a long time that many cars in this price class are meant only to be leased, and this discussion (other than your post) does little to discourage me.

     

    How many miles do you have on your Audi? How long do you intend to keep it? What model is it?
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • rjlaerorjlaero Member Posts: 659
    I agree with what everybody says about the current lease prices on the new A6's vs BMW. But the new A6 has only been in the market about 5 months. You can't expect a car that was totally redesigned and that is far superior to the previous car to have cut rate lease specials so soon. Audi is doing very well with the A6, and they don't have to give the cars away on lease specials. People are buying them for minimal discounts off sticker and paying higher lease rates because they simply want the car.

     

    I think a lot of Audi A6 buyers and "lease shoppers" were really spoiled with killer lease deals they got on the old body style 04 models. You could lease an 04 A6 stickering for about 45K for under $500 a month with a few thousand dolars down.

     

    Audi was blowing these cars out in anticipation of the new 05 cars and many people got killer deals on the old ones.
  • liferulesliferules Member Posts: 531
    My car is in my profile. An 05 3.2, had since October and loving every minute of it. I traditionally keep my cars for many years. My last car was 9 years old before I had to trade it in for this one (it was on it's last leg). I know all the information about Audi's and poor reliability, but in my research, the difference between the Audi's and even the top Japanese brands isn't too far apart. In general, the cars are being built better in the last 5 years such that even the worst of the autos still are better than the average from the 90's fiascoes.

     

    I personally purchased my car based on its looks, its fun ride, and its reputation (not too snobby, not a wannabe either). If I was looking merely for the top car in terms of reliability, I would probably have gone with a Lexus, but that's not all there is to me in purchasing a car. I understand the possibility that the Audi's on average may be in the repair shop more than the Lexus vehicles on average, but individual performances will vary (as the brokerages say...).

     

    Leasing cars is for those with lots of money to blow or for those who can write it off as an expense. It's just not for me to have a perpetual payment every month on an auto for the rest of my life. Others will have different opinions...

     

    As to breathtakingly expensive...I can only say that in my years with autos, I've had breathtakingly expensive repairs with Datsuns, Mazdas, Fords, etc...I certainly don't think Audi has the corner on the market.

     

    I will repeat what I've said previously, and that is that I don't think anyone with a $50K vehicle should go "commando" after warranty expires. If you can afford the car, you can afford an extended warranty. Otherwise, you certainly can afford to repair it and shouldn't be too hurt by it...
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    . . .see our impressions of the new Infiniti M35x over on that board.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,495
    I wish you well.

     

    I've enjoyed every Audi I rented for my business travel, and that's why I joined this board several years ago. What I think I've learned is that Audis are marketed to be leased, not bought.

     

    I could be wrong. You're our canary in this mine. I'll be paying careful attention to your reports, as your car ages. My most recent vehicle is approaching 5 years old, and warranty coverage is a fond memory.

     

    Hope you have a good experience, tho it'll take 4-5 years to find out. If things go poorly, I won't be holding my breath to hear your report.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • liferulesliferules Member Posts: 531
    Thanks for your well wishes. I'm also hoping I have a good experience. If not, I can always cut my losses and move on. The Audi is my 1st German car and I'm going to have to give it a try and see what comes of it.

     

    Current Audi's certainly aren't marketed in the 'States for leases based on the current deals, but I understand what you mean in leasing expensive autos that may not be reliable... Let's just say I'm betting on AOA making a concerted effort to improve service and reliablilty.

     

    Best wishes.
  • bargamon1bargamon1 Member Posts: 110
    It seems your no. 1 priority is price. The chrysler does not have awd, 50k warranty, and is a pig on gas. It also does not fit yoru demographic.

     

    You crime was leasing two new cars the same year.

     

    The BMW are not selling well unless they are discounted and subsidized to move them. FOr a lesser price, they are acceptable, but in reality they were OVER priced!

     

    To reiterate a point, since when do new models get discounted, or good leases? Only when sales are slow, or inventory is growing!

     

    I hear you, but it seems like your very price motivated and are venting your frustration over your current diliema.

     

    I saw you can lease a 1.8 a4 6speed speacial edition (dump existing model promo) for $299 per month! Get two of them for less than one A6!

     

    ITs not what you want, but your basing things on getting what you want for a price you want. Besides the car show tix, how does the chrysler lease? Since the new M35 is new, how does it lease? Acura RL? No caddy with AWD in the sedan with stick catagory.

     

    You can always do well on cars on the market a while. See E-class, and the Bmw as expample you know.
  • bargamon1bargamon1 Member Posts: 110
    I guess they have not check with Mark about leasing!:

     

    "MONEY magazine today named their choices for 2005 Best Car Values, and in the category of Best Luxury Car, the Audi A6 took the prize and made their suggestion as the top of your test drive list if you’re in the market for a luxury car.

     

    Of the A6’s performance, Lawrence Ulrich of MONEY wrote, “The A6 closely matches the performance of the benchmark BMW 5-Series, yet it's more luxurious and ergonomically sound and costs roughly $5,000 less. Choose Audi's new direct-injection, 255-hp V-6 or a mighty 335-hp V-8; both are mated to standard Quattro all-wheel drive.”

     

    Regarding the car’s design, MONEY said, “The gaping grille is Audi's bold new signature. Inside, the Multi Media Interface, a single-knob systems controller, is as easy to use as BMW's iDrive is baffling. A CD player hidden in the glove box is the one sour note.”

     

    Runner-up in the Luxury Car category was the BMW 5-series."

     

    Funny, MONEY mag names it best in class, but its money that might keep some from getting one, instead getting the runnerup!
  • sam818sam818 Member Posts: 127
    I have been unable to find out what "voice recognition" applies to on the technology package.
    Specifically: does it allow for voice address input ...a la Acura or Infiniti. The specs note that it controls the navigation, but if not address input, what else is there?

    For the adaptive cruise control: does it operate down to low speeds to brake the vehicle in stop and go traffic?
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Price on the lease is important. I totally agree.

    Value is important, however.

     

    I have NEVER before even considered shopping for something other than Audi. I was convinced for years that the Audi performance and value proposition was superior.

     

    In many ways, I still believe Audi makes superior cars -- I am convinced they make excellent cars and have nothing to not be proud about.

     

    According to published sales numbers Audi did not have a great 2004, what with several products coming to their model end run and new products announced and creating some anticipatory delays.

     

    BMW's 5 series, like it or not, WAS a mostly new model, compared to the A6, that is. The S4 did beat the pants off the M3 in the journals -- but the bread and butter car, the A4, was often not even in the top three of multi car comparos. It was thought, too, that the 1.8T engine was just not enough engine for the car, and so on.

     

    BMW actually had a decent year -- they are under similar euro vs dollar issues as Audi, but are somehow able to charge more for their cars at MSRP and lower monthly payments -- increasing their value proposition, at Audis expense, to some degree.

     

    An outgoing A6 2.7T S-Line was THE quickest A6 in North America excluding the S4. The incoming A6 underwhelmed in that regard. Being priced at MSRP like the outgoing 2.7T and performing closer to the now dead A6 3.0 (which was way less money).

     

    Value, content, price per month, performance, leadership -- all areas that historically I would argue were words that would describe Audi.

     

    2005 has upped the ante in terms of competition. There are worthy competitors to Audi from all over the planet. Some cost more, some less -- but they are able to compete with Audi. What laurels Audi had built over the past few years with some excellent cars quickly can evaporate.

     

    Read TIMCAR's excellent post over on the 300C AWD Chrysler forum.

     

    BTW, the Chrysler 300C AWD with every possible option undercuts the A6 4.2 by nearly $20,000. As good as the Audi is, the Chrysler has made significant strides. And, please note the 300C is not the gas hog you may think it is. And it does come with a RWD biased AWD mated to essentially a Mercedes 5spd auto.

     

    I have NOT driven a 300C AWD -- I have no comment that I can make based on personal experience.

     

    I did, however, drive the new Infiniti M35x and my comments over on that board are there if you are interested.

     

    So, yea, I have been bellyaching about the Audi price thing -- but more so because I remain a fan of the brand. I think Audi needs to understand that it takes much greater effort and cost to get new buyers than it does to retain old ones. If they let the loyalists get away, there will be trouble in Troy (MI) so to speak.

     

    Audi is a great builder of fine cars -- they seem to be better at that than at marketing.

     

    Some of my whining, too, is based on my hopes that Audi will get its marketing act together.

     

    If Audi had an owner council -- or would attempt to communicate directly with long term, repeat buyers of their products they could possibly glean valuable market information.

     

    As my wife says, "wow testing other cars is eye opening -- I wonder if Audi would pay attention if two of their most loyal and long term customers bought BMW's or Infiniti's or a Chrysler and . . . something else, not an Audi.

     

    I am a biased shopper -- but I'll wager I am an informed shopper -- and right now it isn't looking good for Audi.
  • liyliy Member Posts: 47
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    This pretty much tracks with my impressions, over on the M35 board. As a long time Audi loyalist, "thanks, I think."
  • bargamon1bargamon1 Member Posts: 110
    The last three mercedes and this audi have kept me satified longer than any of the premium Japenese cars I ever had.

     

    The Japenese gizmo thing is always nice, but there is just a european thing, not snob appeal mind you, but the interiors stay together, and the paint on these cars just hold up very well.

     

    I like the analogy on a review on the Acura RL that said he liked the dash, but it reminded him of "his daughters Aiwa bedroom stereo!". I had to laugh at that one, but its true.

     

    I always felt the Japanese brands try to simulate a quality build. They are reliable!

     

    Chrylser: ON paper it looks nice. And for the money it offers a lot. It should be driven. I can't get excited about a car that has the same infrustructure that starts at 24k for the base model, to the bling bling model at 40ish. Its a bit flashy for my taste. When I was a Mercedes guy I thought the Audi dash was too "fruity" with its cherry red and lots of lights. But the Jedi Warrior in me did like the look. I found the 6spd allroad so different I had to look at it, and the lease really worked for me. What I have come to love about this vehicle is the fit and finish, the motor, and feel this car has. The dash lights don't seem as silly anymore! The 300 is a nice car and should be considered, but I doubt the overall tactile feel will be there. And its somthing the Japanese brands also are missing.

     

    I feel my AUdi was a smart purchse for the money. Mark, if I hear you, that has always be present with any of your purchase's, and should be going forward. If I were in your shoes I would be mulling over the same things you are.

     

    Next time don't get caught with your pants down during a model change! Spread your lease's so it falls about 18-20 mos after the model changes.

     

    Does a subaru outback wagon sport version warrant considertion? its like a allroad in a smaller less ambitious way.
  • ckelly14ckelly14 Member Posts: 105
    I hear you. Even the dealership experience is like night and day. I went to the Chrysler dealership yesterday to test drive the 300, but the salesman knew very little about the car. He "usually sells trucks"- not the person I want to count on for a 35-40 K purchase!
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    “I can't get excited about a car that has the same infrustructure that starts at 24k for the base model, to the bling bling model at 40ish.”

     

    Edmunds:

    325i = Base MSRP Approx. $29.9K

     

    M3 = Base MSRP Approx. $45K+

    [Loaded M3 = $55K+]

     

    So – spread is approx. $15K (base 325i / base M3) or M3 = 50% higher than the 325i.

     

    Or – spread is approx. $25K (base 325i / loaded M3) or loaded M3 = over 80% higher than the 325i

     

    - Ray

     

    Thinking I’d still be pretty excited about the bling bling model, if the M3 was what I really wanted, regardless of the current ‘base model’ pricing . . .
    2022 X3 M40i
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    As many of you know, we are comparing the A6 to other vehicles in our Luxury Performance Sedans discussion. That's really where this conversation should continue.

     

    Thanks.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Although it is self-serving, my answer to your imbedded assumption/question is: yes, I have always thought it was "smart money" spent on an Audi. My wife and I (as individuals and as "company cars" have had over two dozen Audis, one BMW, one VW Quantum (aka Passat), one VW Jetta and a Chryler Cordoba, Volare and Duster, in college a Pontiac GTO and a Plymouth Satellite (we're in our early 50's if you haven't figured that out).)

     

    The Audis have certainly had their ups and downs insofar as the media is concerned -- but, in our experiences, every Audi we had was better than the one before and the best cars we have had thus far have been Audis.

     

    Although many will argue long and loud against this statement -- from 1978 through 2003, the Audis were "smart" buys. Nothing could touch the sum of the parts of an Audi (quattro) of any flavor -- from Fox, to 4000, to 5000 to 100, to S6, to A8 to, A4, A6, TT and allroad. The cars, due in large measure to content, drivability, performance and all wheel drive were (in our opinions) without peer (price factored in or not).

     

    The 1988 325ix BMW (with sport package and the upgraded wheels and tires that were available that year) was an anomaly -- BMW soon stopped making that ONE AWD car -- so we went back to Audi (and the BMW was $11,000 more than a "similarly" capable Audi, as I recall.)

     

    So the point all along is the current A6 in either flavor probably IS the best A6 (and perhaps the best Audi -- excluding the RS 6) ever. But it now has some serious American, German, European and Japanese competition. It is harder, now, for Audi to differentiate itself -- it can no longer point to "quattro" as the "extra certain something" that has historically set Audi apart (and we think above).

     

    If the value proposition improves, as it almost certainly must, the A6 will be back on my super short list. It is currently just on "the list" because it seems to provide less value than several of the fine cars that -- in 2005 -- have come out of the woodwork.

     

    I don't mean to make this forum a comparison discussion -- I do contribute on at least three or four other brand specific forums here. But, the Audi is still a benchmark -- it is just currently no longer THE benchmark. It must differentiate itself (and I think it has it in it to do so) again. Perhaps it is a good time to be in the market -- for the new crop of cars here now and coming soon is, frankly, THE most exciting in my 35+ years of driving!

     

    It remains to be seen if leasing a new, 2003, allroad back in October, 2002, was a blunder. I am a paid optimist, so I'll say I think not.

     

    Love the discussion! I think it is good for the "auto industry" assuming any credence is given to these "blogs."

     

    Audi, after all, means something like "we listen" -- let's hope it also means "we read."
  • liyliy Member Posts: 47
    Click on the "2005" Banner

     

    http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/bestcars/
  • bargamon1bargamon1 Member Posts: 110
    Good point.

     

    I think the M3 will hold a tad bit more resale value.

     

    There will be many 300s at the lower end. A sea of fleet models will dot the landscape. One would be very hard pressed to see a 3 series base model in this country. THe % of production I would say is miniscule compared to fleet sales of a base, or near base 300.

     

    You have a point and I apprciate he the relevent imput.
  • bargamon1bargamon1 Member Posts: 110
    I remember having to choose an audi 4000 with a VW 4cyl engine, or the VW quantum with the Audi 5 cyl (5000) engine. I went with the VW to get the engine. Think that lease was $229 per month! THis was a 87' after the last upgrades. Great wheels with great Pirellis on them. They were the porche tires and cost $200 each to replace! I did not!

     

    I saw this car recently and was amazed how funny some of the lines of the car is. The roofline seems too tall for the base fo the car. Granted it was not the prettiest thing on the road then, but it did hav that Volvo look to it!

     

    IT had the best fabric on any car ever! I don't think leather was offered. This was my last fabric car as the static electricity was so bad I almost was afraid to touch the car getting out! It freaked me out after a few years! Shock theropy!

     

    My brother and sister both had 5000's back then and this was my way of hanging! My sister got the 88' special edition with the fack suede interior and special stereo, wheels and paint. Paid full price, this a week before the famous 60min story came out. Two weeks later she could have saved thousands off that sticker! Those first egg shaped 5000 changed the modern sedan and were great cars. They were low horsepower engines, but smooth and the drive was great!

     

    I read that Audi is really trying to bring up dealer profitability. Market conditions will dictate priceing no doubt. Your right Mark, it is a good time to be "alive" in the 50k sedan market due to offerings, but the new models could also have bloated lease offerings until the demand softens. AWD offerings will be in demand vs not. That is perhaps one reason the BMW's leasing well, as is the E-class at mercedes. From a value standpoint, it will be interesting to see how the mac-daddy chrysler 300 will lease.

     

    I looked at a Pacifica vs. Mac-daddy Sienna van last year and ended up buying the van, but did a lease comparison just to see what my options were. We about fell out laughing at the pacifica lease vs. the toyota given the residual. We were like "what planet are you on"? The chrysler dealership had really given us the new training schpeel about this being the first love child product from the Daimler/Chrylser marriage and how the dealer was changing. They just put a fancy chandelier and thought they went uptown.

     

    The Pacifia interior designer was and ex-audi man and you can see the infulences all over. The door design is taken from the A6, but done ever so cheaply.

     

    I too remain hopeful that in the end the consumer will win when the pricing softens, but I hope you don't time yourself out.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Even though there may be a dozen legit market reasons that the following shouldn't make us feel like we're being taken, well, it does just sorta stick in your craw:

     

    Wife's current car 2003 TT (MSRP) $42,000+ no money down, no sec dep, 36 month lease, 15K per year. $700+ including sales tax (here, NOW, that is 7%.)

     

    2005 BMW 330xi with all options, $45,000+ no money down, no sec dep, 36 month, bla bla bla -- about $560 (now that just "don't seem right.")

     

    I say to my wife, "that was then, this is now, new 3 series out by September, my dog ate my homework, look it's the Goodrich Blimp, etc." She somehow thinks Audi took advantage of her loyalty.

     

    I can argue somewhat convincingly, "that was then, this is now." But then she catches me when we do a lease comparison between the two companies TODAY -- and she feels Audi is pricing themselves outta the market.

     

    Whattya gonna do? She has, even if an argument could be made and won on its merits, a point: perception is reality.

     

    Besides, she test drove both a maxed out 330xi and a 3.0 A4 Ultra sport. Guess what the BMW seemed like a lot more car for less money (on the lease).

     

    Of course we drove the S4 and she grinned all the way around the block.

     

    Maybe it is just we don't like "feeling" we're being taken. Even if y'all come up with a dozen reasons 'taint so.

     

    Hopefully the new A4 will do it for "us."

     

    You can't win arguments when your spouse is a lawyer -- or even if you can, it is unsatisfying, 'specially when her arguments don't seem at all specious.
  • jgainesjgaines Member Posts: 39
    First major hiccup with 05 A6 3.2. Navigation system crapped out after cold spell. Dealer told me the new navigation system has had this problem in many 05 a6's and a8's. New unit is on order from Germany as it cannot be fixed. I will update situation.
  • rjlaerorjlaero Member Posts: 659
    The canyon red looks a lot better in person that what you see from pics.

     

    But it's hard to say if you'd like it for the long haul unless you saw it in person. It is sort of a "strong" color, so I could see some people geting tired of that color after several years.

     

    I wouldn't take anybody's word for it about how much they like it. You need to see the whole car in person.

     

    I think a lot of dealers may be afraid to order that car because of the color. So it may be a lot harder to find on a lot so you can look at it.
  • bargamon1bargamon1 Member Posts: 110
    What was the A4 Ultrasport leasing for?

    Both are do for new models soon. BMW is getting a new model. consumer wins, if yo don't mind not having the new model. But at that price, its a good ride.

    The BMW was a coupe or sedan?

    I think Audi now wants its profitability,and prices won't fall until they realize they can't sell cars at those prices, or everybody sticks to their guns. By that, I seriously doubt BMW will discount its new 3 series? I doubt they will discount its new awd 5, same for Lexus, and Infiniti for its awd. If the demand is there, your not going to do great as you have on the past.

    That TT lease was expensive, but its relative to getting a cool car at the time, and price was not an issue at that time.

    The dog ate your home work! Priceless!
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497
    The color is metallic and has a copper-like hue to it. I like it alot and it would be my choice if I buy an A6. It is not a pure red so you must see it to decide if you like it, a "love it or hate it" situation, IMO.
  • cstilescstiles Member Posts: 465
    Last Sept, I had the opportunity to visit the Audi factory in Ingolstadt, meet with Audi middle mgrs/engineers, drive the new A6 4.2 at ridiculous but stable speeds on the Autobahn, the A3 Sportback for a short jaunt on their grounds, and also tour their very impressive factory. It is well worth the trip to the factory and the Audi museum, if anyone has the chance.

    In visiting with the Audi mgrs, it was clear to me that they perceived 2005/2006 to be pivotal years for their company. There is some doubt about global acceptance of the new single grille, and it's obvious that they are constantly comparing themselves to their neighbors in Munich, BMW. German tastes in cars are very regional, down south it is almost all Audi and BMW, and the further north you go, the more you see Benz and VW.

    Another issue is the lack of synergy within the family of brands---VW, Audi, Bugatti, Seat, Skoda, Lamborghini, and Bentley, and the tough couple years that VW has been experiencing with poor sales of the new Golf. The Phaeton is also assumed to be a market failure, and too close to the A8 for proper differentiation. (Also interesting that the New Beetle is non-existent in Europe, perceived to be a toy and a bit of a joke.)

    They also know they need the Pikes Peak ASAP to better compete with the X5, M-class, X90, and even the Touareg. The Allroad was not a big seller in the scheme of things. The A2 has also not met sales expectations at the entry level locally, priced too high for the segment with expensive use of aluminum. The upcoming A3 was a fun car to briefly test out, and it felt like a more tossable version of my '02 A4 3.0.

    It was fascinating talking to the mgrs and engineers, and they are somewhat concerned whether the new Audi look will appeal to the US. Apparently, they also expect to sell a lot in China, possibly a bigger market than the US(?)

    Overall, was very impressed with their highly computerized factory. I am in the market for an A6, but we'll drive the RL, Infiniti M, and Lexus GS. The 4.2 is a bit out of my price range, but it sure felt stable at 140mph+ on the Autobahn!
  • stevenfwstevenfw Member Posts: 2
    Need opinions ASAP......I ordered a new 2005 Audi A6 4.2L with mostly every option except sport package several months ago and it is due to arrive any day now.....for reasons that are not important, I was not required to leave a deposit. Here is my predicament: for a long time, my heart was set on the 5 series for all the reasons known to members of this forum, however, over time, I became concerned with some of the issues that were afflicting the new e60, and given the fact that many of my partners (disproportionately-6 out 10!) at work were very long time Audi drivers/owners singing the praises of Quattro AWD (we are in New Jersey), I ended up ordering said A6. When I took the car for a test drive, I thought it was very nice, with the exception of a somewhat brittle ride/suspension, but, nevertheless, I ordered it. As time has gone on, I have continued to intermittently drive my fiance's BMW 330i, and when driving it, I am continuously reminded of the virtues of driving a BMW, hence making me question my decision, as the Audi is good, however, it is NOT a BMW. I have since borrowed my friend's 2005 Audi A6 3.2 to experience longer test drives than allowed at the dealer, and I am impressed with what is good about Audi, but I am still concerned that it is not handling the way a BMW 5 series does. Furthermore, as many of you probably know, the lease rates for Audi insofar as MF and residual are far, far worse than BMW, which is actually at the other end of the spectrum, with excellent MFs and residuals. Hence, a 5 series optioned out, costing 10K more than A6, has same monthly payment. Now, it sounds like I'm making the answer easy and building a strong case for abandoning the A6 and getting the BMW, however, consider this-in the last month, Money Magazine, Motorweek, and Edmunds have all endorsed the A6 OVER the BMW (I know not ALL surveys/reviews/magazines have), with Edmunds getting to the heart of it by way of their ratings, echoing multiple other reviews; Audi wins on everything, with everyone universally saying that it is clearly a more luxurious car, with BMW only exceeding Audi when it comes to steering and suspension (not too surprising)...subsequently I have read tons of reviews, etc. praising the A6 on everything, except mentions of brittle/busy/harsh suspension, overly assisted steering at low speeds, etc. This has all led to making the decision excruciatingly difficult-should I accept delivery of the A6 with its better interior, ergonomics, MMI, etc. with probably performance in terms of steering and handling second only to BMW, or should I abandon it and get the BMW specifically for the steering and handling and accept the otherwise lesser interior, ergonomics, I Drive, etc.? Money is NOT an issue for the aforementioned reasons, and if the answer comes up BMW, I am willing to get winter tires for the snow.

    Please give me your honest thoughts, impressions, as time is an issue.

    Thanks again to everyone on this forum and for putting up with the long post!
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    If folks have comments for stevenfw, please go to the discussion at this link to post them: stevenfw, "Audi A6 vs BMW 5-Series" #14, 20 Feb 2005 6:17 pm.

    Steven, let me make this observation: drive the A6 when it comes in, drive a similar 5-Series and buy the one that feels like your car. Sounds like you are letting too many outside factors overwhelm you...

    Anyway, since this discussion is not a comparo and you have found the appropriate one, let's continue there - at the link I just posted.

    Best of luck to you.
  • ckelly14ckelly14 Member Posts: 105
    Mark:

    You'll be happy to know that lease prices for the new A6 are starting to slowly come down. Audi financial has boosted the residual on the A6 at 36 months to about 57% from the prior 55%. The money factor is also lower. Also, if you have a previous Audi from 1998 MY on, there is a now a $1500 "customer loyalty" incentive if you lease from Audi. I believe this runs until May.
    This may have something to do with the 18 A6's that are sitting on my dealer's lot! The people at Audi need to have their head examined. They are currently making the same mistake with the new A4. My salesman told me that the current lease rates are "ridiculously high" because they feel they can get away with it on a new car introduction. He feels that rates will come down in a few months, but during that time, aren't they losing customers?

    I would also be interested in your opinion of my post on the "Luxury Performance Sedan" thread, regarding my very arrogant (and misinformed) Audi salesman. He didn't have a clue about the new M35/45 and told me that the new A4 would have the highest residual of ANY German car!
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Very interesting post. Did they say anything about improving Audi's reliablity?

    M
  • rjlaerorjlaero Member Posts: 659
    Don't know about the new body style A6 as it will take time as a new model for data to come out.

    But the A4 sedans/avants are back on consumer reports recommended list.
  • cstilescstiles Member Posts: 465
    No, we did not get into Audi's reliability. In fact, the engineers seemed to assume (smugly?) that reliability was not a problem globally or certainly in home markets. We did discuss some of the newest technology---drive by wire and direct injection, advanced anti-theft, new repair techniques and use of high tensile steel, new safety systems, alternative fuels, etc.

    Close to 50% of Audis and other cars in Germany are diesels, so there was a disconnect when I asked them if Audi was heavily into fuel cell, hybrid, alternative fuel research. I don't think this is on German radar screens like it is with the Japanese. Could be a competitive disadvantage in 2-5 years, unless they catch up. If they are serious about China, Audi better start working on alternatives to gas and diesel.

    Quick question on the $1500 Audi loyalty discount....is it only available on leases? I stopped leasing a few yrs back, and now only buy, and would be interested if there are incentives to someone who owns an Audi A4 3.0? I assume they are only trying to sweeten the pot for lessees??? An extra $1500 would help me more seriously consider the new A6. Something tells me that incentives will kick in this spring or summer based on the posts I'm reading.
  • ckelly14ckelly14 Member Posts: 105
    The print out from the dealer said it was for leases and for special financing- I'm not sure what it's called but it's some sort of balloon payment thing (Audi Prefered?). Not on conventional payments, yet.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,142
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  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    For them not to be concerned about reliability is scary, this coming from a person that loves Audis. This further leads me to believe what I stated years ago, that Audi and VW of America don't have the full attention of their bosses back in Germany. It may not be a problem in Germany or other markets, I'm not so sure about that either, but either way it is a problem in one of their biggest markets...the U.S. Shocking. When looking at Audis I'm so taken by their design and details to the point where the only fly in the buttermilk is that nagging reliability stuff.

    M
  • aquilaaquila Member Posts: 1
    Pat,

    Sorry. Please if you can remove my previous posting to avoid spam problem. Thank you. And thanks everyone for your response to my message. It is very helpful. Best Regards.
  • ckelly14ckelly14 Member Posts: 105
    It will be interesting to see how the new A6 stacks-up from a reliability standpoint. The A4 has improved reliability significantly and is currently recommended by Consumer Reports (talk about coming a long way)! I believe the new A6 will be an improvement, but I still believe it will fall far short of Acura/Lexus.
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