Audi A6

markcincinnati · March 2005

At lunch today, my co workers asked me which car I would get TODAY if forced to do so. I said, I regret to inform you -- the Infiniti M35x would get my $ vote.

However, if the Audi Financial ship turns around, I would accept the lower horsepower performance of the Audi and take it, because despite my other comments and concersn, I still think it (the A6) oozes class.

And, good as the Infiniti is, there is still that psychological sense that no Japanese car -- yet -- has quite cracked the code on "feel behind the wheel."

The Infiniti seems to be the closest Japanese car yet in that quest for the Holy Grail.

liferules · March 2005

So it sounds like you prefer the A6 and your choice is strictly monetary...

markcincinnati · March 2005

Nope, not strictly monetary. The two cars at MSRP are very close to each other. The Audi's lease program, frankly, ticks me off.

The value proposition -- which is not simply the money -- is THE issue.

richcream · March 2005

In what aspect(s) do you feel that the consumer is getting more "value" from the M35x vs. the A6 3.2, assuming a purchase?

markcincinnati · March 2005

If by purchase you mean buying it in cash -- then I need to clarify. If I "believed in" purchasing in cash, perhaps my sentiments would be different.

My issue is -- I do not see the value in a significantly higher monthly payment on a lease. It is either an indication of poor resale (the residual is low) or of a non-competitive money factor.

In a world called "virtually equal" insofar as this aspect would be concerned the Audi would still get my $ vote. Indeed even in a world where the Audi was more expensive (to a point) it would get my $ vote.

Maybe Audi has spoiled me. Maybe they have changed and I have remained the same.

A friend of mine bought a 2000 or 2001 BMW 5 with the 6 cylinder engine, no navigation system and premium, sport and several other options that cranked the MSRP to $49,999 and change. At that time, I think BMW may not have had "free maintenance."

I let him drive my Audi A6 4.2 sport which did have navi and several other packages which increased its cost to ~ $50,750. One day, he asked if he could drive my "innie" (he kidded me and always put "outties" down -- get it "outtie" and "innie" -- oh brother.)

He hit the entrance ramp to one of the Interstates here in River City and floored my 300HP Audi and the thing "leapt forward" as if it had been poked with a cattle prod. He stopped calling it an "innie" right then and there.

He asked me how much it cost, when I told him and he figured out that my AWD V8 Audi cost virtually the same (at MSRP) as his RWD 6 cylinder Bimmer, he asked me how Audi could sell cars with this much goodness and power for this much money.

In this particular Epiphany, he came to realize that to achieve (and surpass) this kind of performance would require the 5 series with the V8, which would have shot its price up, based on how it was optioned out, by some $6,000 to $10,000 -- and when it "weathered" here is SW Ohio, my friend drove his Jeep or called me to pick him up, as his RWD Bimmer was virtually useless when the coefficient of friction dropped during our mostly moderate winters.

Starting in 1977 with my first Audi 5000, I would, as each time my wife or I came ready to move on to a new car, read up on the competition. Rarely, very rarely, was I moved to test drive a competitive brand (competitive either in "content" or msrp, i.e.)

As I told the reporter from Business Week, it has only been in the VERY recent past (perhaps 6 months) that I began to consider something other than an Audi product might tempt me (or my wife).

Audis products, in my fairly extensive experience, have improved -- that is, each Audi we have acquired since 1977 has been a step forward in at least several different aspects: quality, reliability for certain (despite some folks howls to the contrary, all our Audis did move forward in this regard), features, functions, content, competence, performance, power, styling even -- in every way, every Audi we have owned since that first 1978 model Audi 5000 and that first 1979 Audi [silver] FOX GTI, had/has been "better" than the one it replaced.

Moreover, every Audi "seemed" insofar as this analysis can ever approach being "objective" a better value than anything that it could reasonably be compared with.

When my friend got that BMW 5 (I mentioned above) and I my Audi A6, and he called me when we had but a trace of snow on the ground because his car was "slip slidin' away" and I knew that our cars cost about the same at MSRP, and mine had a V8, AWD and a lower monthly lease payment -- I thought Audi would ultimately (eventually) be "the leading" German import -- for if you drove and priced Audis and BMW's (for instance) the Audi virtually always gave you so much more for your money in every way (performance, warranty, power, features, content) AND came with quattro -- well, I assumed that it was but a matter of time. . . .

Dr. Piech, the so-called "father of quattro" proclaimed that "eventually all premium sporting sedans (and other cars too) would offer AWD."

The man was a profit, and for at least 15 years I thought he must've been smokin' something 'cause no serious car company, thus far, ever seemed to take AWD seriously. Sure, in 1988, BMW dabbled a bit with the 325ix and even Mercedes came out with their overly complicated (at the time) 4Matic, but Audi had moved to offer AWD across the entire product line as early as 1984 (of course so much of the engineering and content "greatness" was overshadowed by "unintended acceleration.")

Now, today, "the foot is in the other shoe." Dr. Piech's "prophecy" is coming true -- like, now, like, all-at-once. Yet Audi with 25 years of leadership is moving (in my mind) from leader of the pack to "member" (front-runner, but member) of the pack. And, the heck of it is -- simultaneously there is no discernable marketing campaign to promote Audis history, heritage and engineering leadership -- juxtaposed with either an insane or inane "get them on the street" tactic (or strategy?) of pricing them slightly lower at MSRP but "beyond the tolerance of reasonable" lease prices when all the competition is coming out with -- finally -- truly competitive cars. Many with AWD, most with content equal to Audis and with market perceptions that, unfortunately, rate them equal to or higher than Audi's current rank in the pecking order of Premium cars.

Hence my frustration, hence my "value proposition" concerns.

Now, today, if my friend were to drive up in his new 530 BMW it would cost over $3,000 more than my new A6 3.2 at MSRP and be over $100 per month less on a lease. Despite my fondness for AWD, this discrepancy strikes me as either arrogant or just plain dumb.

In May, if the new 5 series AWD Bimmer is similarly priced (plus the added ~$2K for AWD) and the price is about the same as the A6 3.2, I can only assume that some folks will not even consider the Audi, because it will have lost an extremely valuable piece of market differentiation and has not capitalized on "all the goodness and goodwill" created over the past 25 years.

More's the pity. More's the pity.

Besides, the M35x is VERY COMPETITIVE, both in content/performance and MSRP -- I can see its attraction was the point I was trying to make with my colleagues at lunch.

cablue · March 2005

Mark: I bought a bmw 530 in 2001. I was comparing it to the Audi A6 2.7t at the time. The A8 was not a comparable price to the 530. My car has the sport, premium, etc...Also, I do get the free maintenance. It has 49,000 miles now with not one problem, except the cupholders. But, in 2001 I was going to get the Audi, but in several months from then, Audi was getting a facelift which I would want. Bottom line, I would have had to wait about 7 months out. At that time, the bmw definitely had a better driving experience, but the Audi was more luxurious inside and bigger, which I liked. Anyhow, the bmw has been great and we'll keep it forever. I am now considering the A6 because of its size and comfort. Although, in 2001, my friend bought the A6 and continually had it in the shop for oil consumption problems. Just recently turned it in early. Seems it was a lemon, though.

markcincinnati · March 2005

I had both a 2000 A6 4.2 and a 2001 A6 4.2 sport.

My comparison was with my sport suspension equipped A6 V8. The price comparison, NOT the model designation was the basis of my story. I was not and if I did, did not mean to suggest that an Audi A8 was comparably priced with a 530 Bimmer.

The common assumption was that there were 3 models of the Audi A6 and three of the BMW 5 series and that they were marketed in the US to compete with each other.

On paper, these three cars from their respective companies were, in terms of power, low, medium and high, although the 2.7T was quicker and faster than the middle BMW.

The price, however made a match between the middle BMW and the top Audi a more likely comparison.

When one could acquire a V8 sport equipped A6 OR a BMW 6 cylinder also sport equipped for approximate money (and the lease even more favored the Audi) the Audi could "beat" the BMW in many ways.

This was the basis for the value prop I have been on about (that I am concerned Audi has either lost or forgotten).

If I somehow suggested that I was comparing an A8 to the 530, I misspoke. I was comparing the Audi 4.2 to the 530i based on the closeness of their MSRP's at the time.

However, in point of fact, the 2.7T version was more capable in many respects based on its high torque and horsepower. At that time, the Audi 2.7T & 4.2 A6's were on C&D's 10 Best.

The current, new A6, IMHO should have made the cut this year -- but alas it did not grace C&D's top 10.

Danger Will Robinson, Danger!

cablue · March 2005

Mark: I'm sorry. I meant to say an A6 4.2, not an A8. In my area, I couldn't get a 4.2 for the same price as the 530, which I paid MSRP for back in 2001. I'm sure you were able to get a better deal than I. Again, the 2.7t was the car I wanted, but time was a factor. I've been happy with the 530 but am currently looking at the new A6. It's beautiful, and in my area, they aren't around every corner like the bmw.

nofeer · March 2005

can you change this yourself? can you get these at a auto parts store or have to get them from the dealer (mine is 70 miles away) are there inserts or do replace the whole blade??? how much, and is it hard to do

thanks

cstiles · March 2005

Is it just me, or does the upcoming Passat dangerously resemble the A6? If you squint, you can even see VW's version of the single frame grille. Dimensions are relatively close, and typically the two brands share DNA under the skin, anyway. 4-Motion is allegedly a less advanced version of Quattro, but are the systems truly that different?

VW is also developing a new 3.6 liter, 280-hp V6 for the Passat's debut in early 2006. If I'm a new A6 owner with the 3.1 liter 255-hp motor, I would not be a happy camper when I learn about the better endowed VW, or if Audi decides to offer the bigger engine a year later.

ivan_99 · March 2005

Actually they don't share much...at all.

The Passat now shares the new Golf/Jetta platform, and much of the content (suspension/steering, hvac, etc).

I would suspect the A6 has a more refined drive...but it's just speculation.

tayl0rd · March 2005

I believe the Passat gets a stronger V6 because it won't be offered with the V8. Then again, they may offer the W8 again which rules out my theory on the V6.

markcincinnati · March 2005

The Passat W8 is gone.

tayl0rd · March 2005

Then there you have it. The new Passat gets a stronger V6 because it doesn't get the 8.

richcream · March 2005

And the A6 gets stuck with the paltry 3.2 (by comparison) for how long?

tayl0rd · March 2005

Considering that it's been sort of revamped for this model, it will be a while.

richcream · March 2005

That is unfortunate. I guess Audi feels 7.9 to 60mph is sufficient.

tayl0rd · March 2005

For 99.9% of driving situations, that is sufficient. I suppose their stance is if you want faster, ante up for the 4.2; and even that isn't as fast as I would like. But it sure sounds and feels good when you nail it! I suppose they reserve the hardcore speed for the S/RS vehicles.

They have good power, they just need a serious diet.

jhutchins · March 2005

I may be crazy, but I thought the April, 2005 Road & Track issue that reviewed the 3.2 A6 (in a very good, but not glowing review) listed 0-60 in 7.0 seconds. I don't have the issue in front of me, though.

richcream · March 2005

Or I could save $6K, get the M35x, and get to 60 in the same 6.3 seconds that it takes for the 4.2

I think the A6 is a great car, inside and out. But 'feel' is just as important as anything else. I've driven both the 3.2 and 4.2, and the 3.2 'feels' rather sluggish IMO. So much so in comparison with the M, that I'm not even considering it any longer.

I'm waiting for the Audi dealer to get the new-body S4 in before I sign off on the M35x, should be in the last week of the month. I want to see how the non-stick S4 drives and then it's decision time. S4's looking good.

cstiles · March 2005

Why does Audi call this car the "3.2", when the engine actually has 3.1 liters of displacement?

penn2 · March 2005

If I could ask a more direct question... specifically, pricing. The board about pricing and buying experiences seems relatively dormant. So, would pose the question here -
I am in the market for the 05 3.2(or 3.1) - would think invoice + 5% would be fair(and taking into consideration TMV) but, best I've been able to do here in the mid-atlantic region is $500-750 off MSRP ...or, in another case, $1500 off(with lease) but, high MF, well above AFS' base lease rate

What have other 05 3.2 buyers succeeded with?

rjlaero · March 2005

Audi has only 6-7% markup in their cars, so at 5% over, you'll only get a few hundered bucks off sticker. The margins at Audi are very thin compared to other companies like Lexus.

andys120 · March 2005

Actually they don't share much...at all.

Indeed, the VW engine will be transverse so it won't get the true Quattro system rather AWD Passats will get the Haldex-based version of 4Motion.

kgary · March 2005

I picked up my 4.2 last week for $900 over dealer cost.

boomsama · March 2005

Does anyone have the new A6 with the optional Sports Seats? How comfortable are they?

luckylindy · March 2005

Back in early Feb I posted a few messages re serious sporadic acceleration lag (2 to 3 seconds) from a rolling stop in my 2005 A6 3.2--plus jerky acceleration. After two visits and two weeks in the shop, I now have two software/firmware upgrades--one for the battery management system and one for the throttle system. Have had car for three days and problem seems to be cured, and car is again a pleasure to drive. For those with similar issues (there were a couple of you), have your dealer check it out--appears to have worked for me!

shudog · March 2005

I test drove the new A6 3.2 today and am considering buying it against the GS300 AWD BMW 530xi.
Does anyone have any positive or negative feedback on this one?

penn2 · March 2005

Thanks, rjlaero....make sense

especially since one dealer is trying to convince me that $750 off sticker is really going out on a limb

although with a AFS' Premier Purhase APR of 3.5%, and a down payment of @ $1K -- which I'm not willing to give

rjlaero · March 2005

Audi has 2.9% for 60 mo on A6's right now as well.

richcream · March 2005

"I test drove the new A6 3.2 today and am considering buying it against the GS300 AWD BMW 530xi.
Does anyone have any positive or negative feedback on this one?

Yes. Test drive a M35x.
I was also considering the A6 3.2 and the 530. For the performance, reliability, and for the money (even at the current MSRP pricing on the M) I think the Infiniti is your best bet. Definitely check it out before you go for the Audi, Bimmer, or Lexus.

penn2 · March 2005

thanks for this , as well....

although will most likely lease....AFS' current base lease factor for A6 this month is .000129 ... of course, they're trying to get their posted MF of .000189...so far, for standard lease(not AFS Premium Purchase), I have one dealer down to .000155...and so it goes

what a game

jhutchins · March 2005

Penn2,

Only $500 - 750 off MSRP seems stingy. In Maryland, I got about $2250 off MSRP (based on the new MSRP, which is $1K more than the old MSRP was). This was for a fully loaded 3.2 that will be arriving in mid-April. Even if you choose the A6 over the Infiniti M35x (like I did), you should at least tell them you are going to buy the Infiniti if they don't lower the price on the A6.

richcream · March 2005

So what wound up being the bottom line on the 3.2? Pre-tax.

rjlaero · March 2005

The M35/45's seem to go out at or near full MSRP right now.

Also, just remember that the M series cars have a lot more markup in them than an A6.

Audi's margins are pretty thin at about 6%. So if a dealer gives you 700 or 800 off sticker on an A6, they're not making a killing off you. Infiniti may have $5000 in markup vs $3500 for Audi on similarly equipped cars.

jhutchins · March 2005

Slightly over $51K. (I don't have it in front of me, but I think around $51.1K).

jhutchins · March 2005

Don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge the dealer his money. Nor do I think it is outrageous for the dealer to try to sell the car for $500-750 off MSRP. I was just saying that I thought that penn should be able to get more than $500-750 off MSRP, given the real competition in this segment. Going off of Edmund's data, the mark-up on my car was about $4100 (using the higher, new MSRP and invoice), meaning that we about split the mark-up in half in the case of my car. Further, it looks like my deal was only about $300 better than the Edmunds TMV price.

carnaught · March 2005

Ahh, I believe the M's mark-up is less than $4K, comparable to the Audi.

richcream · March 2005

Infiniti dealers are actually pushing just under a $5k markup once you add in the options (say Journey & Tech pkgs., or the Premium Pkg., for example.)

penn2 · March 2005

jhutchins

thanks for input -- much appreciated....

markcincinnati · March 2005

First Motor Trend, now Car and Driver -- Audi A6 finished 5th of 8th in the $55,000 comparo. And the cool thing was that the Audi WAS able to be had for the price of the test with the sweet 4.2 V8 and STILL came in 5th.

Once again, Audi -- although fielding a fantastic car -- really has to be of the understanding that this time the Japanese are not planning on taking any prisoners.

The Audi A6 and Audi in general remain my all time, life to date, favorite cars. However, I think I have reached the point where Audi is quickly sliding off my list for the next 36 months of driving.

Some of you already will remember, that my wife has ordered a new BMW to replace her third TT (and she had a bunch of A4's, 90's, coupes and 80's before that).

If anyone from Audi ever lurks here, I volunteer, no charge, no nuttin' -- I volunteer to be one of hopefully 100's of "focus group" people.

But, I am quite surprised that no one from Audi even bothered to track me down after the March 14th BW article where I was quoted.

You'd think someone from the Customer Loyalty and Retention department would be wanting to follow up with a customer (household) that has had 27 Audis since 1977. I would think there are darn few folks who have had more than two dozen of one brand in under 30 years.

Sign of the times.

rjlaero · March 2005

I'm a big fan of C&D and have subscribed to them for almost 15 years. It's a great magazine. But they freely admit that their "final score" is not a true average. It's purely a subjective number they put on a car. They always get numerous letters every month about their subjective math.

I certainly wouldn't buy a long in the tooth 2wd EClass vs the new Quattro A6. But they put it ahead of the Audi. Car and Driver doesn't compare apples to apples on a lot of these tests. C&D has always gushed over Japanese cars, though. I personally think that they're quite over-rated in many cases.

Lexus, Infiniti, Audi, Mercedes, and such all build nice cars. You have to buy what you like and not do what some magazine tells you what's best. Audi has gotten a ton of good press on the A6 and they'll be fine and sell a lot of them.

markcincinnati · March 2005

The Mercedes in question was NOT a long in the tooth car, as I recall it had the new high zoot engine in it, which, in part, was why the Merc was rated higher (than the Audi V8, what were they thinking???)

I agree with you, though, I would not let a magazine make my decision for me.

On the other hand, it is "nice" for instance that the Audi has won so many accolades -- just as it is "nice" that the three new Japanese rivals in this class are winning so many Car Editors "hearts" and even are winning objectively too (stats that is).

As the phrase goes, I would be happy to have almost anyone of these cars (well, maybe not the Jag and the BMW 5 -- at this point); Ok, I'll start over, I'd be pleased as punch to have any one of Acura, Audi, Infiniti, Lexus or Mercedes AWD Premium cars in my garage and as my daily driver (well for at least the next 36 months).

My heart belongs to Audi, but I am pretty certain my vote, this time, will be with the Infiniti M35x. Perhaps if enough of us EGPC buyers jump to Japanese (or American for that matter) the breed will improve.

rjlaero · March 2005

The V6 engine recently got a much needed upgrade this year on the Mercedes. But the body style really hasn't changed that much. Also, if you price out the 4matic and NOT the 2WD option for option with the A6 Quattro, you're over 60 grand for a V6 E350 4Matic.

I'd take the glorious sound of Audi's 4.2 V8 over the Mercedes V6 anyday....and for less money. But that's just me.

markcincinnati · April 2005

. . .please go to the Infiniti M35 board:

Message - #1590 Dear Mr. Hunt (former VP of Audi of America) by markcincinnati. . .

pat · April 2005

to that post, but I have to point out that I've already been burned once today (check the date!)

markcincinnati, "Infiniti M35/M45 2006+" #1590, 1 Apr 2005 11:11 am

:shades:

gregaudia6 · April 2005

Picked up my new 2005 A6 4.2 Quattro this week (wednesday)! (DVD Nav, voice, cold weather, parktronic, Bose audio XM, sunshades, advanced key) - an absolute gem to drive around town and for my 350 mile road trip yesterday - satelite radio is entertaining - but for 10 bucks a year? - I wish I had the SD card slots in the DVD -
Oh - the dealer had to replace the DVD head unti before I drove off the lot - now I am eyeing the A8 - so I won't be around this board very long -

(I test drove the Acura RL several times and already have owned a BMW 535 and Volvo 460GL and a previous Audi 4000 Quattro)

tcams76 · April 2005

Edmunds stated that the V-6 uses regular unleaded gas is this correct??

markcincinnati · April 2005

Yes, no, but.

Yes it will run on regular.

No it prefers premium.

But if you use regular it costs more so use regular if you are rich.

Using regular is a "false economy" but other than your wallet there is no actual harm in doing so.

Ultimately, Audis FSI's, but not this version, will use the FSI to its advantage yielding extra power and economy with CLEAN regular. Too bad we don't have any fuel that is clean -- next year is THE year for the US to convert to such fuel, so it is written.

Heck, I've been waiting for HDTV since 1999 and the best I can get is "sorta HDTV" sometimes here in Cincinnati. Maybe next year.

ivan_99 · April 2005

Kinda dumb...but couldn't resist

The Audi 2 Seater is ready to thrill two children at once! Children love the realistic detail and the Audi is just loaded with standard features.

Features: Equipped with a fully functional lighting system including head, tail/brake lights and turn indicators. An all weather fiberglass body. Rack & Pinion Steering. Full suspension, discbrakes, emergency brake, working horn, simulated dashboard

Price: $10,250.00

Audi A6

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles