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The 3.2 will stick around, and the 09 models will get a 10hp bump to 265 hp. The new A4 due next year and the upcoming A5 will have the shared 265hp 3.2 motor.
At $54,000 "nicely equipped," it is possible to get a very fine "sheen" (as in machine) with more than adequate power and change left over. Sure you can argue the Audi's interior is the best of the best and many agree with that. The car is safe, competent and an "all around good egg."
It needed the Audi mild bi-turbo tune up that historically Audi has done about this time in the development of their car's, and during a given run's lifespan.
The 3.2 needs to be 300HP and damn near that much torque AT THIS PRICE POINT.
This does not detract from the goodness in the A6, I love mine and I'd have another one in a heartbeat. But the "value" in this [underhood] respect is not high at this point.
More's the pity.
Drive the CTS AWD DI, drive an Infiniti -- either G or M -- drive so many other cars from all over the world, factor in the price for performance and it seems clear that Audi could "fix this" with two little implellers, about 6 oil squirters, a more robust piston and sodium filled valves and a couple other engineering tweaks they could do in their sleep.
Imagine an A6, SLine (now standard), sport suspension, some key option groups and a 300 HP, 295 pound feet (at 1800 RPM) V6 TFSI -- all for $54,000.
The last gen A6 ended its life as an SLine with a 265HP turbo with, as I recall, 280 pound feet at sub 2K RPM's) and despite its old tech and funky 5 speed "trip"tronic transmission, was a heck of a lot of fun (more fun?) than the current "adequately powered" 3.2.
No wonder the 535xi sells like "hot cakes." Audi doesn't seem as competitive in the horsepressure dept these days.
4 years with the same power just doesn't cut it. I honestly don't think Audi cares much about selling A6's in the US market much anymore.
The next generation 2009 A4 is growing by a whopping 6.6 inches in the wheelbase to 110.90, up from 104.3. The current A6 is 111.90. A 1 inch bigger car in the wheelbase is not much difference to justify a lot of money. The A6 will still be a couple inches wide and a bigger car, but it'll be hard to spend 55k for a V6 3.2 A6 if you can get a larger A4 3.2 loaded for 8-9k less. We'll have to see how the new 2009 A4 pricing shakes out.
I would love to see the LWB A6 here in the states like the asian markets get.
Still only 265 HP, same torque as the current, but in a lighter car with RWD Biased TorSen and Torque Vectoring -- which is everything SH-AWD wanted to be.
Better weight distribution and a current gen A6 cockpit in a car that WILL be narrower, but not much, and shorter overall and not much shorter in the WB.
What's NOT to love about the new A4? It will have to have some distance between itself and the A6, unless the A6 is SERIOUSLY subvented, discounted or content is added.
My eye is wandering back to the Infiniti family (again) and the new CTS AWD DI with all the toys (minus bluetooth -- DAMN!) is also very nice (more opinion after I test one.)
If Audi makes me another deal, I will almost certainly stay a customer -- but you know, they just need to goose this car, SLine or no, it needs more grunt.
On the other hand, I have been so pleased with mine in every other way, maybe I'll just keep it 'til the wheels turn square. :confuse:
http://www.motortrend.com/auto_shows/coverage/frankfurt/112_2007_frankfurt_motor- - _show_part_1/2009_audi_a4.html
The most popular A6 is the 255HP 3.2 -- it is a great car, it is often accused of being underpowered. The A6 is notably nose heavy and its quattro system is NOT rear biased (for the record, I say that last fact is not really all that relevant in the real world, where a 50 50 split using a torsen system acts, anticipates and reacts in real time.)
Anyway, the new longer, wider, upgraded A4 chassis has a 265HP 3.2, better balance and seems to be overall VERY VERY close to the A6 in all the good ways and different in the areas where the A6 has been criticized.
If the A4 keeps its distance from the A6's MSRP, as it has historically, a well optioned 3.2 A4 quattro "sport" will be $6,000 to $8,000 less than a less capable A6 (at least until the new A6 comes out in 2 or 3 years.)
The A6's already pack trailing sales would seem to be vulnerable to "friendly fire" from this newer, bigger, more potent and less expensive A4 -- wouldn't it?
The new CTS, likewise, has made the STS much less attractive for many -- will the A4 do for the A6 the same as the CTS has done for the STS?
Wouldn't a reaction to this, from Audi, be to subvent the 30 and 36 month leases to offset this cannibalization? Wouldn't it take a "bargain" on the A6 to keep the sales propped up at least to "well above Acura RL levels?"
I read the previews, I have a 2005 A6 and I think, "the new A6 (due in a few years) will be awesome -- meantime, the new A4 is the new A6 for many."
Now get me into an A6 for less than $650 per month, and my eye will not wander (nor my mind wonder) across the showroom floor to that newer, bigger, nicer, better A4.
:confuse:
I recently 'Lemoned' a Lexus and was in the market for a new car, and I had a short list: an A6 4.2, and a BMW 535i.
The 2008 A6 was just out, and nobody had a 4.2 that I could test. I decided to test a 3.2 since everything about the car other than the engine was the same, and I liked it. Didn't love it... just liked it.
I had been calling the salesman regularly, waiting for the 4.2 to get in (I'd get the usual 'it should be here any day' response). In other words, any salesman would tag me as 'very interested', and since I was paying cash, I'd imagine I'd also be tagged as 'able to purchase'.
In the mean time, I did a few tests of the 535i and decided that it was the car for me. I ordered, and it should be arriving in NJ 10/22, and be in my eager hands a week later.
No calls from the Audi salesman. I called just to check, and he is still working there.
Add to that: my Dad's A8 warranty is up in February, and he will be looking for a new car and is leaning towards a new A8. My salesman knows this, and still hasn't even mailed the A8 brochure to me or my Dad as I asked, or given him a call.
Amazing. No wonder their sales are lagging.
I had been calling the salesman regularly, waiting for the 4.2 to get in (I'd get the usual 'it should be here any day' response). In other words, any salesman would tag me as 'very interested', and since I was paying cash, I'd imagine I'd also be tagged as 'able to purchase'.
In the mean time, I did a few tests of the 535i and decided that it was the car for me. I ordered, and it should be arriving in NJ 10/22, and be in my eager hands a week later.
The A6 is a great car. I think you'll love the 535 though.
We've had (1) new 4.2 A6 for dealer stock in the last 9-12 months. How can you sell a product when you can't even drive a car with a customer? Same thing with A8's. 1/2 the time we don't even have one to drive. My personal car is a 4.2 A6, and I wish more people could appreciate how incredible this car is.
You can go to the Lexus, BMW, and MB dealer, and they'll have a 1/2 dozen or so of all their high end cars available for test drives and immediate delivery.
Audi is having record sales everywhere in the world over the last 5 years, and record profits as well. But Audi just doesn't support their high-end cars like other manufactuers...with supply or deals. When you can lease a 7 series BMW for $200/mo less than an A8, it doesn't matter how much follow up your salesperson does and how good they are. Same thing w/ A6 leases.
It's been really tough to sell the A6's last year. $800 a month to lease a 255hp A6 with some nice equiptment? People go straight to the BMW dealer every time and lease a 5 series for $150 mo/ less. It's 950-1000/mo to lease a new 4.2 A6.
We sell a ton of A3's & A4's, and the new Q7 does really well.
It's frustrating at times to deal with high end Audi's. Everybody keeps wanting better and better deals because they bought a car before. Even if you roll out the Donald Trump red carpet and follow up diligently with your customers, it's always tough to keep the high end folks coming back.
The car business in an emotional business. I've followed up with customers for 6 month to a 1 yr at times. And 95% of the time they lose interest and buy something else.
You should always follow up with repeat customers and prospects. But time is money and it's difficult to chase after high end Audi business. Audi ships so few of these cars to the US market that you have to focus on bread and butter business and what people can afford in volume.
I'd like to know where I can get a "7 series BMW for $200/mo." or a "5 series for $150/mo. or less".
Best Regards,
Shipo
BMW's have inflated residuals most of the model year. BMW is very dependent on the US market for the 5 and 7 series, and they need to push these cars. They really have become the General Motors of the German car market. Many people are not leasing a BMW because it's the Ultimate Driving Machine. It's more like the "Ultimate Lease Deal"
It's hard to compete lease wise when an A6 has a 47-48% residual and the 5 series is 56-57%. The A6 may be a better overall car, but it's tough to justify spending an extra 125-150/mo for a lot of customers.
You can lease a $80,000 7 series for 1050-1100 mo. It's tough to lease an $80,000 A8 for under 1300/mo. Once again, the A8 might be a better car, but the US market is so "deal" driven, people will lease the 7 series to save a couple hundred bucks a month. Even though the quirky bangle BMW styling and horrid I drive are still major drawbacks to the bimmer.
Audi doesn't really need to sell many A6's and A8's in the US market. Audi is making so much money on these cars in the European and booming Asian/Chinese markets, why send them to the US and have to give them away to compete with BMW lease deals?
There's a reason Audi is having record profits and sales world-wide. Audi is hoping to overtake BMW in profitability by 2010/2011.
Ya know..., I've been hearing comments like that for so long that it seems to become some sort of an urban legend. That said, in my experience it doesn't hold true. Why? Well simply put, I've now leased two BMWs, and in both cases they fetched well over the "inflated" residual value when resold. In the case of my 530i, it was CPOed and put on the lot for a whopping $9,500 over what the residual value was, and it fetched over $8,000 more than my residual.
With the above in mind, I keep wondering how folks can constantly claim that the residuals on BMWs are inflated.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Sure, I agree with your statement. When someone's (nlaero) trying to make a point using figures, I take it as fact.
There's a huge difference between wholesale/auction values and what a dealer may sell a car for @ full retail.
I wish I could make $8000 on every deal selling certified cars. You always have a few people that buy high, but the average used car profit is not $8000.
Most car dealers are happy if they can average $2500 - $3500 profit on a used cerified cars. And after 6 + years in the car business, that's just about right from my experience.
1) I was paying cash, not leasing, so the comparison to BMW's lease rates don't matter.
2) Regarding "it doesn't matter how much follow up your salesperson does and how good they are...": he hasn't called me ONCE.
When you have 'a fish on the line', and you don't call or follow-up even a little, you're not going to get the sale. And you're going to lose the A8 sale to the fish's Dad.
the dash doesnt light up though. i can see the digital miles travelled colunter. but once i put the headlights on it goes off, and i cant see any of the clocks or dials at all in the dark.
someone said there might be a dimmer switch somewhere- but i cant see anything.
does this problem sound familiar to anyone? you got any advice?
any help would be much appreciated
thanks.
And, the man is correct, finding an Audi A6 4.2 IN STOCK to test drive is difficult. BMW's dealers have plenty of stock of all of their models (well, almost.)
Of course, BMW's ONLY come in black or silver, so I guess if you can live with that, you will be happy.
Hopefully, my earlier post rings true, for it WILL be difficult to sell an A6 3.2 against a 535xi when the Bimmer is easily $100 or more per month less than the Audi.
Perhaps Audi is somewhat less than enthusiastic about selling/leasing in the US market.
More's the pity. :confuse:
Even though with record sales in the US, that still totals less than 100,000 cars in the entire US market for Audi.
Audi is very competitve on the A4 leases. It's their bread and butter car and the deals are quite good. You can get a Quattro A4 with more options for the same or less money as a 3 series or C class Mercedes.
Whether Audi (or any of the rest of them) make more money in the process is very much a question in my mind. They probably do, but not at the levels some recent posts imply.
Bottom line, though, is that indeed the discriminant German buyer is often caught between Audi, Mercedes, and BMW. If all else is nearly equal, why would one pay more for an Audi when similar can be found cheaper at a competitor's dealership? I can't fault those who have switched to BMW or Merc... kind of hard to justify staying with an Audi, especially if leasing. And as people have stated, Audi doesn't currently seem too concerned about the US market, thus it doesn't send good vibes to the loyal customers knowing that they don't really fit into the current big scheme...
What I am talking about is the upcoming A4 (a 4 door A5 from what I can tell) -- which, when parked next to a many thousands of dollars more expensive A6, ought to eat into A6 sales, substantially (unless, as I predict the A6's are subvented and / or discounted heavily.)
Use your imagination. . .
The next gen A6, then, ought to be another quantum leap, just to keep things in perspective. Having the new gen A4 in a few months next to the current gen A6, can't possibly help sell A6's, but it ought to mean few deals on A4's -- they just won't have to offer them when the A4 will no longer be CLEARLY MUCH SMALLER than the A6.
:surprise:
I was wrong.
Again.
- Ray
Not an automotive marketing expert . . .
Often wrong, never uncertain. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
Best Regards,
Shipo
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1418/751628521_5567e459ae_o.jpg
Best Regards,
Shipo
Well, all I needed was stem seals (if you don't know what they are, it's a relatively simple fix that can be done from the top without tearing the engine down) & I was pleased (& impressed) to see the hone marks in the cylinders after eight times around the world. I still respect Nissan & straight sixes (not in that order) after that.
Bear in mind that oils in the '70's weren't anything near as good as they are now.
Change the oil on a regular schedule & use the best money can buy. Repeat.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Your reliability issues are not typical. Your opinion is, therefore, NOT representative of anything other than you singular experience. And, by the same token, even though I have had several dozen Audis without the kind of issues you describe, neither is my opinion representative of anything other than my plural experiences.
I really like the new CTS -- a lot. It is about equal to a 2004 Audi A6 2.7T SLine overall, however.
My primary attraction to the CTS WAS and I assume will be, the inevitability of huge off MSRP discounts to compensate for its rapid depreciation and "not quite" German car feel. Secondarily, I want(ed) an American car, I wanted a car that was really as good looking as the new CTS is and I assumed the CTS would be a drop dead bargain (after the first 6 - 9 months on the market.) I had hoped it would be the equivalent of a 2005 A6 3.2 quattro with Premium, Premium Leather, Technology, Convenience, voice command, MMI, back up sensors, etc etc etc, plus sized wheels and tires and all the rest of the German toys money can buy.
Alas it just ain't so.
But if it comes in on a lease with a number beginning with a "low 5" -- I'll overlook its being "state of the art," circa 36 months AGO.
:surprise:
$2800 is only $78 per month for the 3 years; if you like insurance, $78 per month could probably throw another half million in your life insurance policy...not to suggest the odds of collecting on a life policy is equal to the odds of catastrophic repairs on an A6
If I were looking at a used A6 with only 28k miles I wouldn't bother with an extended warranty because I would think with the miles so low it should “last” much longer without serious repairs.
What was your total repair bill last year?
If you need repairs, such as suspension, HID's, transmission, etc. it will be very expensive. Any single item probably wouldn't top $2800 (unless you need to replace the transmission).
Is this warranty a 3rd party, or an Audi extended warranty?
As a co-worker's divorce attorney puts it “...it's only money, how much peace of mind do you want?”
I personally am in favor of it. The Audi A6 is a great car but complex and prone to little glitches that cost a lot to repair. This year alone, I've had over $2500 of warranty-covered repairs to it (defective adaptive light, sun roof stuck open, door creaking, adaptive light again, etc...). I would not take this car out of warranty without an EW. Granted, it will not cover as much as the factory warranty, but is better than going "commando". Yes, on average, one may or may not pay $2500 in repairs during the life of the warranty, but with an Audi, it doesn't take that many repairs to cover it, and the peace of mind is definitely a factor to consider...