Audi A6

mpuzach · January 2001

Yup. The OEM changer is $300 from Clair. You can easily install it yourself in about 15 minutes, and you'll have full compatibility with your factory head unit. If you want a changer, this is the only way to go.

mosi1 · January 2001

I've been biding my time thinking that I'd take advantage of leftover opportunities, or in the alternative, a low mileage 2000. I'm leaning toward a 4.2 or a 2.7T. Problem is that the depreciation hit doesn't exist as far as dealers are concerned. I still haven't started playing hardball though, and the tune might change when the rubber meets the road. Anyone else have experience along these lines? Also, I test drove a "used" 2001 4.2 with about 500 miles ( that's right, 500 miles). It had the premium and sport packages, as well as xenon lights. I liked it, but the sport seats have me a little worried. Being 6' and 240lbs. ( running back in college) the seats are a bit snug. Will they break in at all? It's a concern on a $50,000 car. The salesman didn't say much about the car except that it was an executive vehicle out of Detroit. I'm betting the executive didn't like the seats. Any thoughts?

jackj42 · January 2001

I just took delivery of a '01 A6 4.2 in Dec. In Ohio, the '00's that were left were going for almost $5K off of sticker. However, I got my '01 for $50K even (sticker was over $53). Straight cash deal, no trade. When I calculated the value of the extended warranty for four years vs. three, the ESP that the '01 had and the '00 did not, what really amounted to a small difference in price, and the depreciation involved it was an easy choice to go with the '01. Sorry, I can't comment on the sport seats but I found the regular suspension with the 17" wheels to be a great compromise between the too harsh 540i and the wallowy GS400. I can speak from experience because I owned a GS400 for two years and have driven several 540's. I was bored with the GS after a couple of months, I don't sense I'll feel that way about the Audi. Good luck; you may have trouble finding any '00's left.

Jack

rwish · January 2001

The one at Clair is much cheaper than one sold by Audi BUT www.autotoys.com is even cheaper than Clair. The one with product number OEMAUDI8 is an 8-changer system that is $194.95 with tax and shipping included (the 6 changer at clair is $299 last I saw). Strangely the 6 changer sold at autotoys is more ($233) than their 8! I'm not sure why. The Audi Bose system was intended for a 6 cd changer but the 8 cd changer WILL work and an adapter for the plug is included in the set. With the 8 changer you can't DIRECTLY access the 7th and 8th disks. To get to number 7, you'd need to go to 6th disk and then use the > button. Still, if you get the 6 changer, you won't even have the option for a 7th or 8th disk and it's more expensive. You need to be very careful when buying a changer for the Bose system for compatibility reasons. The one at Clair (a Panasonic), and two at autotoys.com all work fine. For a third option, www.panasonic.com also sells the same one as Clair. In case that was slightly confusing, here's the cliff note version:
Clair.com - Panasonic 6 changer - $299
Panasonic.com - Panasonic 6 changer - $279
Autotoys.com - OEMAUDI8 8 disk changer - $195
autotoys.com - OEMAUDI6 6 disk changer - $233

The two at autosys.com are also Panasonic changers. The most important thing is that they are compatible and in fact the part description says:
"AUDI 1998-2001+ COMPATIBLE CHANGER OEM TYPE II"

My 2 cents. Get the one from Autotoys for $195.

Good luck.

mosi1 · January 2001

I've got my eye on a new '00 4.2 in the color I want and the equipment I want : 17" wheels, heated seats, xenons and rear airbags. The dealer was at $47,900 ( msrp of a little over $51,000) back in June and was still there last week! As I said, I haven't walked in with a certified check yet, but I'm close. I'd like to be in the $43-44 ish range to feel good about not buying a year's depreciation. Actually, for that price range I could be in a '01 2.7T no problem, except I really like the 4.2's styling and big engine. I've seen a couple of pre-owned '00 4.2's, all with 9-12,000 miles, and asking price is usually around $46,000. Realistic price should be a whole lot lower. Does anyone have an opinion re ESP? Is that alone worth me going in to a '01? There is also a pre-owned '00 2.7T with about 12,000 miles, for about $38,000...maybe I should buy it and take the family to Disney World.

timcar · January 2001

I'm with you concerning the sports seats. They catch me in the shoulder blades. That's why I ordered a 2.7T with standard seats, though I think I would have preferred the sport suspension. Irrespective of how much they might break in, the basic configuration would still be too narrow for my back. Regarding seating comfort, a surprising thing is that the interior color selected seems to affect this. Different leathers are used for different colors. Melange and Vanilla both use calfskin and they are softer. They actually do make the seats feel more comfortable. I was surprised to be able to discern a difference.

gemwaterloo · January 2001

I have owned a 96 Merc E320 since new. Great car except for the wiper blade and cruise control. Would consider another, but model change is still two years away, and I want a change. Have test driven Acura MDX, various BMW,s and narrowed my search for a replacement down to the A6 2.7 and the new Volvo S60 T. I am prepared to make a decision soon. Does anyone have a comment or suggestions why I should choose Audi over Volvo?

jim3039 · January 2001

Been out of town, sorry for delayed response. Regarding your quattro question, I felt the front track handled better the Saab 9-5 SE I was considering. Overall, when it came down to it, the drive in the A6 just felt "right." I walked away from my A6 test drive excited. I was not nearly as thrilled after driving the Saab. But, if I lived in Atlanta (and I did for a year) I would opt for the quattro, especially with the weather you've had lately!

mpuzach · January 2001

I looked at the Autotoys web site and can tell you that they use the term "OEM" much too freely. While these changers might work in some Audis, they are not OEM! Of the units listed for Audi, the only one that MIGHT be the real deal is the 6-disc unit for $249, and even that's questionable since they don't provide a picture and they call all of their "Audi-compatible" changers "OEM". (OK, maybe I'm being too tough on them. Maybe they really ARE made by the "Original Equipment Manufacturer", but they're NOT the original equipment changers!)

Personally, I'd have a problem buying from a company that so obviously tried to misrepresent the products as being OEM. (Not only that, but they consistently misspell "Matsushita"!)

In addition, they describe most of the changers as not being compatible with the Bose system, which is absolute hogwash. The standard Audi and Bose systems use the same head unit; if a changer works with one it will work with the other. It's remotely possible that a bit of re-programming (with a VAG tool) could be required, but that's it.

The $299.95 unit at Clair IS the real deal, the same unit as installed at the Audi factory. I think knowing that is worth a few extra bucks.

petrie3 · January 2001

Mosi1: Seems to me and leftover 2000 4.2 should be no higher than invoice at this point. If it has been on the lot since June, the dealer is eating alot of interest cost on his floorplan loan. Keep in mind, on the 2000 you've had a year of depreciation already and a shorter warranty ( 3 vs 4 on the 2001). Have you made a solid offer on it yet? I'll bet he takes invoice or even lower. This assumes that you like the color, options, etc. If not, look at a 2001 2.7t. Great car, about the same $ as the 2000 4.2 and an extra year of warranty (better seating for 3 kids in back too!). BTW, buying a used one and going to Disneyworld ain't a bad idea either! Good luck!

Gem: I have both a 2000 A6 2.7t and a 2000 Volvo s80 T-6. Both are great cars. My wife drives the S80. After about a year of driving both, I prefer the A6. While she says she prefers the S80, even she raves about the Audi's beautiful fit and finish and interior appointments and solid feel when driving. I just feel more solid and glued to the road in the Audi compared to the Volvo. Lots of torque steer to the S80 too. Perhaps that's what contributes to the less "in control" feel when I drive it. I don't think you'd go wrong with either car, but Audi is definitely more of a "driver's" car.

mpuzach · January 2001

It's interesting that you've narrowed your candidates to these particular 2, since it's really the S80 that most closely competes with the A6. Nonetheless...

I drove Volvos (740 GL and 940 Turbo) for 11 years before getting my A6 last year. I was actually very close to getting an S80 2.9 until I took a close look at and test drove the A6; then it was all over.

I looked closely at the S60 at the San Francisco auto show. It's a terrific car, but in my opinion not in the same class as the A6 (in fact not even close). Yes, it has a nice power train. It will accelerate very quickly. That's where its ability to compete with the Audi ends.

While it's admittedly completely subjective, I think the A6 has a clear styling edge over the Volvo. The interiors are drastically different; no "volume" manufacturer offers interiors close to those offered by Audi. If you haven't yet looked closely, by all means do so, and do so at night. Their use of red fiber optics is mesmerizing. Then there's the real wood (in your choice of 2 different types), choice of 6 different interior color combos, 3 different leathers, 2 different stitch patterns, 3 different metal trims, and the list goes on.

I don't know about Volvo's newest transmissions; Audi's are a 6-speed manual and a 5-speed Tiptronic, and both are fabulous.

I'll close by giving you the same suggestion that I've made many times before: Try to get a handle on how you "feel" when driving each car. I vividly remember my first A6 test drive; the car gave me an emotional sensation that no other car (including just about every other sedan out there) had before. It was wonderful. It was as though it was a PERFECT blend of sport and luxury. Today, after owning the car for 7 months, the feeling is still there. I wish I could explain it more clearly, but I can't. When you determine which one does that for you, buy it. You won't regret it.

- Mike

jim3039 · January 2001

Been out of town, sorry for delayed response. Regarding your quattro question, I felt the front track handled better the Saab 9-5 SE I was considering. Overall, when it came down to it, the drive in the A6 just felt "right." I walked away from my A6 test drive excited. I was not nearly as thrilled after driving the Saab. But, if I lived in Atlanta (and I did for a year) I would opt for the quattro, especially with the weather you've had lately!

vkj · January 2001

Esp was availabe in 2000 on the 4.2 as an option for $550. if you buy a 2000 4.2 without it, your car will seem 'backwards" a couple of years from now; I believe that is why you may my find some leftover 2000 4.2's because other buyers demanded this option and the others are being passed over. Think about owning a car a $50k car without abs or airbags. Esp is a great option for a car becuase it can compensate for driver error and prevents accidents in certain situations. how do you value something like that?

mosi1 · January 2001

The '00 4.2 leftover that I've been considering does not have ESP. You may be right, it has been on the lot for quite some time. You would therefore eliminate any vehicle that wasn't equiped with ESP from consideration?

jackj42 · January 2001

Make sure you check the mfg. date. The '00 that I didn't buy, that the dealer wouldn't move much on was mfg'd in 6/99!!! No ESP, 500 miles, and not the color I wanted and the dealer wouldn't go below $47K (sticker was $52K). Part of the problem is that Audi doesn't help the dealers move the '00s, they are actually more expensive to lease than an '01, so the only way they are going to sell them is to a person who wants to buy the car. I got what I wanted with the '01 for not a lot more, and saved the year of depreciation.

Jack

petrie3 · January 2001

I hadn't even noticed that you were considering the S60 as opposed to the S80. I haven't driven the new S60, but can't believe it competes in the same class as the A6. It must be smaller, for one thing; and it certainly won't be faster. I did see that it had a cool new automatic shifter, but I can't believe it has as many appointments and features as the A6 does. If you go with Volvo though, get the premium radio with Dolby surround. It's fabulous. The Audi Bose is really good, but the Volvo beats it...IMHO. ;-))

verlaqueusa · January 2001

Have just about 400 miles on my Audi. Driving on and off Highway 101 in Marin County plus some additional freeway driving down to the Peninsula, then to the East bay and back to Marin County via SF. Computer shows average mpg of 16.5 to 17.5 (after the freeway driving). Seems low (and I don't really push it at all). Anyone cares to comment about their mpg's? Thanks.

dwpc · January 2001

With about 2800 miles on mine, using 92 octane, I get 17+ mpg in surface street commuting and 24+ freeway driving at 70mph. These are actual figures...my trip computer is always optimistic by about 1.5 mpg. You should check your computer's accuracy and have it adjusted when you have the car serviced.

rjsen · January 2001

Well, I have an S4 (same engine) Tip, and I get about 18mpg (computer). That's a mix of freeway and surface roads, but I drive pretty hard (and half the time I take the "scenic route" home which is a twisty little road that just kills my gas mileage). My car is a tad lighter, but you should definitely be getting better gas mileage, especially since you seem to drive mostly on highways. What kind of gas do you use?

jstew2 · January 2001

I have a '00 2.7T with 13,000 miles. I get about 18.5 - 19.5 mpg city and 23 - 24 highway (actual). My computer registers .75 - 1 mpg higher than actual. The car is getting about 1 - 1.5 mpg higher gas mileage now than when new.

verlaqueusa · January 2001

I use premium gas (filled it up just once...). Thanks for all the answers.

1erin · January 2001

Ok, I THINK it's an Audi I want. I've owned an '89 Saab 900 & a '99 Land Rover. Ready for something SAFE & QUIET & SMOOTH. Any suggestions as to which Audi, would be greatly appreciated.

kirby2010 · January 2001

I'm looking to lease an A6 2.7T in the next few weeks - 39 months, 15,000 miles, etc. The model I'm looking at has cold weather, premium and preferred packages and Bose. Lists for $45,150. Anyone willing to share a target price and/or target monthly payment? I'm especially interested in anyone who has successfully negotiated the residual % and what a good target is.

timcar · January 2001

Erin, you've pretty much described a few of the characteristics of most all current Audi's. They're all safe, and mostly smooth and quiet. If these are your priorities rather than sporty, I'd suggest you look at any A6 without the sport suspension and performance tires, or if you don't mind going over $60K, an A8.

The A6 2.8 is all that you've described. The 2.7T and 4.2 are all of that too, plus really fast sedans. If you're interested in the A6, I'd suggest you try to drive each version you're interested in as each has it's own personality. You can't go wrong with any of them.

rwish · January 2001

I'd like to address a few points on the "Chicken Little Sky Falling" post a while back about CD changers for the Audi.

I had mentioned in a post that one place a compatible changer could be found was AUTOTOYS.COM (also Clair and Panasonic). There was a reply made that stated:

Quote
"I looked at the Autotoys web site and can tell you that they use the term "OEM" much too freely. While these changers might work in some Audis, they are not OEM!"
End quote

Autotoys does NOT say these are OEM changers. The term used by them is that they are OEM COMPATIBLE PLUG IN CHANGERS, which is 100% accurate.

Second, as I CAREFULLY pointed out in my post, these aren't for all Audi's. The OEM COMPATIBLE PLUG IN CHANGERS advertised by Autotoys are for 1998-2001+ Audi's and they DO in fact work. I have the 8 CD changer installed in my trunk. The changer came with an interface adapter that is as simple as plugging one end to the Audi changer cord in the trunk and then the other to the Panasonic changer. Piece of cake. The only issue at hand was mounting to the left bracket since it is not of exact OEM dimensions. Anyone however with decent use of basic tools however should have no problem.

If it gives you piece of mind to spend $300 at Clair for the OEM version, I suggest you do it. I frankly preferred to spend $195 for the same end result.

The choice is obviously up to you but the bottom line again is that IT WORKS!

Good Luck.

P.S. I do realize that the "BEWARE" post was obviously made for good intentions but thought it necessary to provide all interested with the facts.

verlaqueusa · January 2001

I just bought a car in the SF Bay Area with, I think, the exact same package and paid $42,311 (that included $150 advertising fee, $45 processing fee for registration).

timcar · January 2001

A good price for a 2.7T is $1,000 to $2,000 over dealer invoice. Anything more is too much. It's usually easier and more successful to negotiate from dealer invoice rather than sticker. How do you know what the dealer invoice amount is? Simple, you get a copy. No copy, no deal. Tacked on fees are questionable, though apparently AoA DOES zap CA dealers for advertising. You'll know for sure when you see the invoice.

Residuals at this time of year on your car should be around 49% for 4 year 15K lease, depending on the market in your area. That’s an ALG number with a regional override. The only leasor with any motivation to raise the residuals would be Audi Financial, and I've never tried to negotiate with them. If you get a better residual than that number, you can safely assume it's a pretty good residual for you, much lower and I'd look elsewhere for financing.

Can't give you an estimate at monthly because there are too many unknown variables. The MSRP can vary by $5K depending on how the car is optioned. What length lease? How many miles? In addition to the monthly lease, you must also consider up front money. It's easy for a dealer to offer you a low number, and make it up in cap reductions up front, plus questionable charges such as acquisition, disposition, etc. The less you put up front, the better the deal.

ds2k1 · January 2001

I'll be buying a 2001 2.7T within the next month and have a few questions for anyone who may have answers:

1. I have a pretty steep driveway at home and my Acura Legend currently scrapes its front scoop when pulling up it. Does anyone have any idea if the 2.7T's clearance (without the sport package) is better or worse than the Legend? The Legend looks pretty low to me, so I'm hoping it's not a problem.

2. I'm located in the Bay Area and was contemplating using a car buying service called Hammer Auto. I was wondering if anyone else in the Town Hall has used this service and has an opinion about it. I've heard good things about their ability to get a great price, but have also done a lot of research and have a pretty good idea what 2.7Ts are going for.

3. I realize the 4 yr./50K mile warranty covers all servicing (and also, surprisingly, brakes from what I've read here), but was wondering what else is/isn't covered that should be noted. Any interesting anecdotes related to this warranty would be appreciated.

4. Not sure if anyone would know this, but is it probable that prices for 2.7Ts in the Bay Area are likely to be higher than in any areas because of the wealth around here? Has anyone found that they could get a much better deal by getting their car in, say, Los Angeles or San Diego?

Thanks a lot for considering my questions. The knowledge I've obtained from religiously reading these posts has been invaluable. I can't wait to be the proud owner of the car that currently finds itself in most of my dreams.

timcar · January 2001

In order asked:

1. Had a '92 Legend. Minimum ground clearance was only 3.5 inches. Used to catch it on everything. Don't know what it is for 2.7T, but know it's not a problem.
2. Sorry, have never heard of Hammer Auto. As you've probably learned, $1K to $2K over dealer invoice is the going rate.
3. Apparently, everything is supposed to be included, though some individual dealers will sometimes attempt a "weasel deal" by trying to charge you for covered items, or not doing things that are routine, like checking and changing wiper blades, or rotating tires, unless requested.
4. Bay Area dealers do look for more money, but people still have been able to find deals under $2K. Think I can remember reading about $1.5K and $1.8K in recent past.

Hope this is helpful. Good luck! You can E-mail if you feel I can be of any further help.

mpuzach · January 2001

I live in Sonoma County but have never heard of Hammer Auto either. With all of the pricing information available to anyone with internet access, I'm unconvinced that bringing a third party (who also wants to make money on the deal) into the process will result in a savings for you.

The invoice numbers here at Edmunds.com are 100% accurate, right to the dollar. I suggest going to the 2.7T pricing information here and getting the total invoice price on the car configured exactly as you want it. (Be sure to include destination.) On a 2.7T (in the Bay Area or otherwise), $1500-2000 over invoice is fair to all. I doubt that you'll have trouble making a deal up here for those numbers, but if you do you can always try McKenna in Norwalk or Keyes in Van Nuys.

Since you're in Millbrae, I recommend giving David Leibenson at Rector (Burlingame) a shot; he's a straight shooter and the folks at Rector run a nice dealership. I was just there last week; they have a lot of cars in stock (though 2.7Ts are always in tight supply). If David can't take care of your needs, try Phil Riley at Sonnen (San Rafael) or Ernst Gosch at Diablo (Concord).

Let me know if I can be of any help. If you want to talk about dealers, etc, just send me an e-mail & I'll send you my phone number.

BTW, congratulations on your choice of an A6. It's a FABULOUS car, and you're going to love it.

If you haven't yet done so, check out the A6 forum at http://www.audiworld.com; it's full of A6 nuts (like timcar and me!) and makes for some great reading.

gemwaterloo · January 2001

Petrie 3, Sorry I did not explain my comparison better. Yes the Volvo is a slightly smaller car, however with 60/40 fold down, there is lots of room for me. I drove the S80, and while it is larger, it does not handle as well - too much, heavy front drive feel. I was prepared to give up on the Volvo based on driving the S80. In my heart, I know the Audi is a superior automobile, but there is a considerable difference of $14,000 Cdn. The Volvo has every option but navigation and sport suspension. I opted out of the sport suspension, simply because the European standard offering is terrific on its own. My heart says Audi and my check book says Volvo.

ds2k1 · January 2001

Thanks for the quick responses. The help is really appreciated.

A few more notes:

1. I thought the Legend's ground clearance seemed low, so I appreciate the insight of another Legend owner. While on the subject of the Legend, Tim, can you tell me what in your experience has been the greatest advantage in the A6 over it? I must admit that it's mostly the visceral tug of climbing into the 2.7T that is driving my desire to replace the Legend. Frankly, I'm virtually astounded at what a quality automobile the Legend is. It has 110K+ miles and I honestly don't believe it has EVER had a mechanical problem. Not anything. Pretty remarkable, I know. However, it is getting older and just doesn't "do it for me", if you know what I mean. I'm guessing that most participating here know what I mean or they wouldn't be here in the first place. I guess I'm looking for a little validation from a former Legend owner that I'm not insane for getting rid of a fantastic car for no good reason. Any comparisons between the Legend and A6, other than the purely obvious, that will make me happy with my decision would be great.

2. As to Hammer Auto, they're located in Palo Alto and supposedly shop at least 25 dealerships to get the best possible deal for you. They charge $300 for the service and get the car delivered to their location and have all the paperwork ready for you to sign. After placing your phone call to them and telling them what you want, it supposedly takes all of 15 minutes of your time to sign the paperwork at their location, and you're off with your brand new car. I know someone who used them, and she was quite happy with the service she received, but don't necessarily trust that she would know if they got her the best possible deal. I think they do pretty good volume, so I thought someone here might have used them, or encountered someone who had.

3. I used to live in Southern California so would have no problem getting a car from Van Nuys or Norwalk. Does anyone have any specific advice about those dealerships and the kind of deal they were able to get there? Any specific sales people to refer?

Again, thanks for the help.

jim3039 · January 2001

Regarding Southern California dealers, I can't recommend Keyes Van Nuys. I leased my 2001 A6 on New Years eve from Beverly Hills Audi. I live ONE mile from Keyes Van Nuys and was so disappointed by their smug, superior attitude, I left my "negotiation" with the fleet manager there, drove 9 miles to BH Audi and leased my A6 from them an hour later at $1,100 over invoice. The difference in attitude and service was huge. They also seem to have a very large inventory - my exact options were hard to find, and they had 2 choices for me. If you end-up shopping in Southern Cal, I recommend David Wolfe at BH Audi.

Regarding the 4Y/50K warranty, the dealer told me tires were the only thing I would be responsible for over the course of my 4-year lease!

Good luck. You're goint to love your new A6...I can't stop smiling.

timcar · January 2001

Mike, you asked the right question. (Or wrong question, if you like succinct replies.) I'm passionate about cars, and probably the two I've found most passion inspiring have been the 2.7T and Legend. I think you're making the right choice. When I got the Legend I thought it was the perfect blend of style, performance and luxury. The 2.7T is the same blend, only updated and superior in every category.

I had my Legend for over 5 years and put over 80K on it in that time. It was nearly flawless. The only problems I encountered related the suspension and brakes. This wouldn't affect you in the Bay Area, but quasi-rural NW NJ where I make my home is typified by bad pavement and cold winter weather. I think '91 & '92 were the last two years for solid bushings in the Legend's suspension. Simply, the suspension was too rigid for the pavement and took a beating. After about 20K both ride and handling had deteriorated. One cold winter day I even broke a shock exiting a NY highway where pavement joints resemble speed bumps elsewhere in the country. The first 20K the feel and handling of the car was magical. After that, it was still good but not as smooth and a little tail happy. Toward the end of 80K the brakes had become less effective, and I once fried a caliper when braking hard with a full load.

Most Japanese cars have problems with bad pavement. Most European cars don't. That's one of the things that drew me to the 2.7T. The 2.7T is better riding, better handling, faster, more luxurious and more comfortable than the Legend. I also think the A6 is the best looking 4-door sedan on the market. It reeks of style, yet it's not a status icon. Unlike the Legend, the 2.7T can be optioned so many different ways that it's virtually an entire range of cars from a fast, good handling luxury sedan to a luxurious, fantastic handling performance sedan. The interior can be luxurious understated black leather, or it can be vanilla leather with amber wood and royal blue carpets and dash. The first has a dark gray headliner, the latter is cream to match the seats. The first interior is snug and cockpit like, the second open and expansive. And these are only two of the interiors that are available. You can virtually custom design the car to order if you’re willing to wait 3 or 4 months. Tiptronic or 6 speed? Not fast enough? Add a chip and do 0-60 in less than 6 seconds. Bigger wheels, big performance tires, a sport suspension? Whatever your priorities are, you can slant the A6 to be more of what you want. My own preferences are toward the more luxurious end of the spectrum. But even there, it is still faster, better handling and more comfortable than my Legend was.

Are there any downsides? Sadly, yes. The A6 is very well designed and beautifully manufactured. It is a very good car. However, it is not bulletproof in the way your Legend has been. Honestly, the electronics could be more reliable. The fanatical Japanese dedication to detail in the design of cup holders, etc. isn't there. Frankly, I think these things just aren't a priority for most German manufacturers.

Secondly, Audi’s aren't sold by dealers where the "buying experience" has been designed from the ground up. Some dealers are excellent. Some aren't. Parts and technicians expertise can sometimes be problematic when compared to Acura.

It's really a matter of priorities. I'd rather have a car that's wonderful to drive most of the time, rather than boring to drive all the time. So I'm willing to accept the lack of Acura or Lexus like support.

Mike, you didn't say if you've driven the 2.7T. I think if you can spend a little time with it, it will tell you far more than I can. These are just my opinions. I hope they have been helpful.

ds2k1 · January 2001

Your advice has, indeed, been quite helpful. It was my impression (and you've really reinforced it) that the visceral feeling I'm experiencing is going to have to close the deal, because logic probably won't. Logic, of course, dictates that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. However, I don't find myself perusing Acura catalogs every night before I go to sleep searching for my next car. It's the Audi A6 catalog that remains in the stack of reading material next to the bed (where it's been for 4 months!).

And to answer your question, No, I have not yet driven the 2.7T. I test drove the 2.8 back in August at Rector in Burlingame (they had no 2.7Ts to test drive that day, unfortunately) and was actually close to buying it, but I really wanted to hold out for the sexier car. I figure if you're going to spend $40K, you should get something that excites every part of you. I thought the 2.8 was a fantastic car and I'd be totally happy with it right now if I had bought it, I have no doubt. With that said, I'm glad I held out for the 2.7T and am in that much of a better position to get it soon. I may even give Rector another chance at my business, if I don't use Hammer Auto.

Anyone looking for a '91 Legend in perfect condition?

timcar · January 2001

Mike,

Glad you found my opinions helpful. Need a bit more logic? Hmmm - Even though your Legend has been perfect for 110K, no car is immortal. Soon you’d start having to put money into it to keep it on life support. OR, you could be driving a new 2.7T. Isn't rationalizing helpful?

If you feel such a strong visceral desire without even having driven the 2.7T, I'm afraid you're probably a goner once you do. A crafty salesperson offered me a test ride without my requesting it when I really had no interest in the A6 because of my commitment to Japanese luxury. Afterwards, I had difficulty sleeping for about a week!

By the way, if you’d like to interact with a few other Audi fanatics, try the link below:

http://www.audiworld.com/forum/a6.html

mpuzach · January 2001

Hi Mike,

I just read your post (#682) and have a thought regarding the services of Hammer Auto, specifically the 15 minute vehicle delivery process. For what it's worth, a very positive component of my A6 buying experience was the delivery process that took place at Rector. David Leibenson took me through a wonderful presentation of the car that, once experiencing it, I wouldn't have wanted to miss. Keep in mind that I thought that I knew everything there was to know about the car and then some! To my surprise, I was wrong. David showed me things that were new to me. In addition, there's just something about the whole delivery "ritual" that makes for a very special experience, and David executed that ritual in grand style. It's not something that I'd pay $300 to give up!

I guess another piece of this is that, in the unlikely event that you discover a problem with the car at delivery, it's far better to do so at the dealer who will ultimately be responsible for making it right.

Finally, I have great confidence in your ability to negotiate a deal that's BETTER than the best one you'll get from Hammer! Now, with that vote of confidence, how can you possibly go wrong?!

Good luck.

- Mike

islandlog · January 2001

I just purchased (ordered) a 2001 A6 2.7T and am still looking at various financing options. Has anyone used the Audi Premium Purchase financing plan? I would prefer to buy vs lease and am curious if the Premium Purchase plan's advantage over a strait lease is that you can "buy-out" at any time without a penalty. Any info is appreciated.

rbernacki · January 2001

I will be replacing my GS300 in September 2001. I have been looking at the A6 2.7T.

According to the Audi dealer, "cosmetic" changes will made to the 2002 A6 due out in the fall of 2001.

Has anyone seen the new 2002 A6? Where can I see some good pictures?

timcar · January 2001

Sorry, haven't seen it. FWI new new model year for Audi starts during Summer. Think cars start showing up as early as July. I suspect any pictures would start showing up sometime between March and May. In the past, AudiWorld has been one of the first with new pix.

mdemars · January 2001

I have a 1998 A6 Quattro with about 30,000 miles. About 3 weeks ago I had my fourth oil leak in about 2 months time, I brought it back to the dealer and they fixed it, but then the check engine light came on (while Audi still had it) so they didn't give it back to me. They said the engine was miss firing. They did tons of stuff to the engine (changed belts, spark plugs, etc) and nothing seemed to stop the miss firing. My car has been in the dealer for over 2 weeks and today they are calling Audi for help, b/c they don't know how to solve the problem. Has anyone else had any engine problem with their 2.8 engine??

petrie3 · January 2001

I've been away for the weekend and didn't see your post until today. I agree with your comment on the S80 handling; good but not in a league with the A6 and quattro. I haven't driven the S60, but I can imagine that it feels a little tighter and quicker. If it has enough room for you and is that much cheaper, can't blame you for going with the S60. Volvo has certainly put lots of R&D in that car too and I'm sure you'll like it. On the other hand, if that size is OK with you, you might want to wait until the NEW A4 is released in the U.S. Great looking redesign (something like the A6) and lots of new stuff. Others may know, but I think it is coming here this summer (2002 model). Either way, you'll have a great car!

mosi1 · January 2001

Like islandlog I'm considering utilyzing the Premier Purchase option. I'd like to put down a substantial amount and not have a monthly payment for three years and then pay off the baloon, or refinance at that time. Does this make sense? I'm told the residual on 2.7T's and 4.2's are in the neighborhood of 57% after 3 years. I suppose I would have to pre-pay the 36 monthly payments to make this work. Any other ideas?

bxby · January 2001

I am new to this discussion and haven't spent the time going thru past postings so I apologize in advance if I am repeating a question. I am considering buying my wife an A6 but am torn between the 2.8Q and the 2.7T. Specifically, I am concerned that the 2.8 may be underpowered. However, I would certainly like to avoid paying the additional $5k for the 2.7 if I wouldn't always feel like I made a mistake. I would appreciate hearing from 2.8 owners as to their experiences.

tubey · January 2001

I am a very happy owner of a '99 2.8 and, as I've said on this forum before, it's fast enough to get me in trouble with the law.

Around town acceleration is a bit leisurely, but can be improved somewhat with use of the Tiptronic feature. Out on the highway, it has good mid-range punch if you downshift to at least third and will certainly fly from 70 on up.

It all depends on your needs. Some people feel they really need the extra acceleration for entering freeways, etc. My driving situation must be tamer, I guess. I had a Taurus SHO that was a really accelerator, but that was about the only thing I liked about the car. But I like so many things about my Audi that leisurely acceleration is hardly a concern.

When I bought mine the 2.8's were more heavily equipped than they are now (there was no 2.7T or 4.2)so mine stickered at $42,225. I know that now they are cheaper than that, but, I don't believe, have the same option choices. Mine has everything but a phone, but, since it's a '99, it doesn't have ESP, sidecurtain airbags, or steering wheel controls.

Yes, I have absolutely no regrets. Nor have I had any problems in 15,300 miles.

markcincinnati · January 2001

I agree -- with the remarks made by "tubey." If you want a stick shift, however, you must go with the 2.7T as Audi dropped it for this year's 2.8's.

No matter what you end up with, make certain it has ESP (about a $550 option on those that don't have it standard, yet.) My dealer claims that those with ESP will command much more on the used market, especially as ESP is getting to be more mainstream -- not quite as much as ABS -- yet, but next year, for example ALL Audi's will have ESP -- ALL US Audi's and probably elsewhere. One other thing, the sport package makes the car handle better -- I don't know if it is available on the 2.8 -- if not and there is a wheel/tire upgrade that will make a difference -- go for that.

I had a '99 A6 2.8Q loaded to the gills -- other than OFF THE LINE, the car was a pleasure to drive and had very few maint. problems. I would recommend it -- unless you really "need" the quickness that the 2.7T will supply -- and supply big time.

New Subject:

I am starting to get a real good case of the "ick" for Pirelli P6000 Z rated tires (I now have 1,500 miles on my 2001 A6 4.2 'sport') -- they are not good in cold weather at all (notice I did not say wet or snowy weather, I said COLD weather); they are also noisy -- this is mostly an FYI as I am going to put Dunlop SP 9000's on the car in a month or so. Why bother, Audi? These tires are merely "good" -- you have put Michelen's and Dunlop's best on several other Audis in the past -- it seems like I just "got unlucky." Not to blame Audi alone, seems like the manufacturers of some of the best European cars "undertire" their cars from time to time -- so I guess it is not just an Audi thing.

Anyway -- the difference in price (on line retail difference is about $60 per tire) is worth it and if offered the choice, I would pay for something other than Pirelli P6000's -- any thoughts, anyone, Bueler, Bueler. . . .

There, I feel better, now.

rjsen · January 2001

Well, I had an A4 2.8 non-sport, and now I have an S4 (2.7T engine). I certainly couldn't say that the 2.8 was underpowered (at least in the A4), but the S4 is definitely a lot more fun. I think it mostly depends on how you like to drive -- if you generally drive fairly "normally" in the city or on highways, the 2.8 should be fine. If you like to drive on twisty mountain roads and take your car to the track occasionally, get the 2.7T. Go drive both and see what you think. My guess is you'll probably be happy with the 2.8.

I have the P6000's on my S4, and I don't think they're all that bad. True, they don't handle like S-02PP's or Pilot Sports, but for a stock tire on a non-sports car (even the S4 isn't a pure sports car), they're quite acceptable. Make sure they're sufficiently inflated (mine are at 45psi). One piece of advice -- the SP9000's aren't going to be any quieter, and won't handle *that* much better. If you're going to bother changing tires (which I probably will too, in spite of what I just said), go with Bridgestone S-02 Pole Positions (1st choice) or Michelin Pilot Sports (2nd choice). FWIW, the P6000's are vastly better than the stock ContiTourings that were on my A4.

nszabo · January 2001

Recommend the Dunlop 9000's

petrie3 · January 2001

I've got Dunlop SP9000s on my 2000 2.7t(PSK)and I love them. I think they are very quiet and smooth riding. Performance in the rain is fantastic. I'm in SoCal so don't need all-weather tires. In the heavy rains last week, I felt like I was driving on dry pavement.

manthony1948 · January 2001

We bought a 2.8Q for my wife about two months ago and I think we both feel the acceleration is just fine. I am, however, a little disappointed in how the tiptronic transmission handles the power of the 2.8 engine. With some real time lags in how it shifts, in both auto and tip modes, it seems to be somewhat less responsive than I'd like. Don't know if that improves with age or not. Whatever, I do suggest that between you and your wife, you should make an honest assessment of what's important in the car that SHE is going to drive. It's possible that acceleration is not really one of her "hot buttons". I kind learned that lesson the hard way. I spent tons of hours researching new cars only to find out that the attributes I held in high regard were not what was most important to her. What sold her on the A6 was the absolutely gorgeous interior. That little oversight on my part cost me about $10K more for her new car than I thought I was going to spend on the car I had chosen. I'd like to say that I'm learning to love the A6 but I don't get to drive it that much, and until this transmission thing is cleared up, I'm reserving judgment on whether it was the right choice or not. Oops, there I go again! It's not my choice!!

Audi A6

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