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Toyota Avalon 2004 and earlier

18911131470

Comments

  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    Incentives are a regional thing. In the Central Atlantic Region, we have no incentives on the Avalon and I don't think we will see any for a couple of years yet. The upper end vehciles rarely have them. The only time we ever had anything on Avalons was when the 2000s came out and they put them on the '99s. Even then, it was only $500.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    OK, lets talk about sludge. I am a salesman so you can all take this for what it is worth. I have tried to research every complaint I read on this message board and have reported on various Toyota problems such as transmission problems in the '00 Senna, brake issues on the Tundra, strut problems on the '98 Avalons, stereo problems on the '01 Land Cruiser. I'm not one to deny real and widespread problems. The thing is, there is no widespread sludge problem. It just does not exist on cars that have been maintained as per the manual.

    Now, have I seen a large number of Camry with engine sludge? Yes I have. Every one of them was 3 years old and were purchased at auction. Not by coincidence, auction cars tend to be "off lease" vehciles. Toyota is currently experiencing a problem with off lease cars because the owners figure they don't own the cars and don't bother to maintain it. Toyota even re wrote the lease contract recently to insist upon the driver performing required maintenance.

    Toyota makes one of the longest lasting engines on the market. They will develop sludge in large dose if you fail to change the oil on a regular basis. If somebody has CONCRETE information to the contrary, please, post it. Show me the recalls, show me the specific complaints, show me the maintenance records and I'll change my tune. Since one cannot prove a negative, it is up to the accuser to prove the sludge accusation and that has not been done by Charlene.

    All this said, I don't deny that there may exist a small number of instances where a Toyota engine did develop sludge. I was in contact with a TH member about 9 months ago with this problem. He convinced me that his problem was real. This in no way indicates a wide spread problem. It means one guy in Leesburg VA had a problem.
  • pilot13pilot13 Member Posts: 283
    Nuff said. There are, without doubt, unhappy owners of all makes and models--Let 'em have their say, and then let's move on.
    I'm a totally satisfied Av owner who believes regular oil changes are the best (And cheapest) insurance for engine longevity.
  • feverhartfeverhart Member Posts: 144
    There is another consideration in preventing sludge by following recommended oil changes:

    1. Drain oil from a hot engine.
    2. Allow to drain for 2 hours, not 2 minutes.

    Of course, you may have to do it yourself for # 2 to happen.

    Fred
  • pilot13pilot13 Member Posts: 283
    Goodness gracious, great ball of fire! I'm tempted to really lose it on this topic if this rhetorical nonsense about "Sludge" resurfaces one more time!
    (1) Recommended oil change interval for the V6 engine is 3000 miles. That's fine if operating parameters are adhered to-- that is to say, engine temps at optimal levels (Highway speeds for more than 30 minutes) at most times, filter change at time of oil change, oil change when hot, etc. Any deviation from this criteria warrants a more frequent interval.
    (2) Moisture will always be present in crankcase whenever engine temps are not sufficiently high enough to boil off residual moisture (Short runs, insufficient warmups are the norm).Water boils off at 212 degrees F-- if engine temps are not sustained above that on a regular basis, you're gonna have problems! Sludges Law: Moisture =Sludge.
    (3) It should not be necessary to drain oil for 2 hours to ensure all moisture and other contaminants are removed from crankcase. It's safe to assume all is OK after oil stops dripping significantly.(Usually 5 minutes if oil is sufficiently warm).
    (4) Always change filter at any oil change.It's not worth waiting longer.And it's not a bad idea to cut the filter open to see if there are any metal particles there. (If you can read serial numbers on the pieces, don't run the engine any more!)
    (5) Whitish residue on inside of oil filler cap is an indication that condensation exists in the crankcase--Driving habits and/or improper maintenance are the problems, not the engine!
    (6) Toyota's V6 is one of the most reliable in existance--It's track record is indisputable.
    (7) All of the above advice applies to ANY manufacturer, not just Toyota.

    Good Gawd, Let's put this nonsense to rest once and for all! Enuff already!
  • cac2209cac2209 Member Posts: 1
    Last Friday I made my first on-line automobile purchase via Greenlight.com. The experience far surpassed my expectations and was the best car buying experience I've encountered to date.

    We purchased a 2001 Toyota Avalon with vehicle stability control, #7 leather interior package, 16" wheels, all carpeted car/cargo mats & nets, factory installed security system including glass breakage sensor, home link system, JBS sound system AM/FM, 6 disk in-dash CD changer, diamond white pearl paint option, and gold package for $31,866.

    Before contracting w/Greenlight, on Dec. 3, I e-mailed 13 Toyota dealers in the upstate NY and West. MASS. area to see if they could meet my request. Some of the dealers never responded, others wanted me to come to their dealerships to "discuss" this purchase. But, surprisingly those that might fulfill my request couldn't or wouldn't meet the Greenlight price. So, I decided to take a shot with Greenlight, figuring I had nothing to lose.

    I am so glad I did. I immediately received a confirmation e-mail from Greenlight specifically stating the make/model of the vehicle w/options that I requested, along with their confirmed selling price. Most of the contact I had with Greenlight was via e-mail and telephone.

    To make a long story short, Greenlight found the exact vehicle for me in Fordham, NY (about 150 mi. away); secured the best financing rate possible (comparable or less than credit union rates, etc.); and arranged with the dealer to trade in my 1998 Honda Civic (which the dealer ultimately gave me $10,800 as a trade in). The Greenlight consultant, Rhonda, kept me updated regarding the status of my vehicle (which was in transit from the factory to the dealer), fixed a few glitches along the way and notified us immediately regarding when we could take delivery.

    Greenlight also offered us an opportunity to have the vehicle delivered to our home or office, which we may have accepted had it not been for our trade in. All paperwork, bank drafts, etc. were handled very efficiently. Greenlight did everything they could to see that we were 100% satisfied.

    In fact, when we picked up our Avalon, the gold emblem package was not installed on it. So the dealer arranged for the Toyota Accessories truck to travel to our home next week to do the installation. The only problem we encountered was the interior color was not what we originally requested w/Greenlight and we had the opportunity to decline the deal or accept a monetary compensation for our troubles, which we readily accepted.

    Greenlight.com and the Fordham Toyota dealer were outstanding to deal with and I would definitely consider buying another vehicle from Greenlight.com in the future.

    We are very satisfied with our overall experience and with our first Toyota purchase...

    PS: Does anyone know about the gold emblem package..and what's entailed with its installation?
  • parnolaparnola Member Posts: 141
    Can anyone tell me if the heated outside mirrors on the Avalon XLS are also auto-dimming? I have a 2001 Lexus RX and they are auto-dimming. We're considering an Avalon and I'm wondering if it's the same. Thanks, -Pat
  • psymacpsymac Member Posts: 4
    Just purchased a 95 Avalon XLS, and am pretty happy overall with the car, but do have a few questions that I hope someone can help me with.

    1) Since the car is out of warranty, will I have to pay for the weather seal/wind noise fix kit? (there is a TSB for this problem). If so, how much might this cost?

    2) The gas pedal seems to be SO sensitive, can this be adjusted to be firmer? Hard to relax my foot, otherwise I'm going too fast!

    3) I am looking for a more sporty driving feel, will going to 16in wheels (and 215/60 tires) improve handling/ride/noise? If so, is there any down side to going to 16in wheels, like affecting odometer or speedometer readings? Also, what would be the best tire, Michelin, Yokohama, or ?

    4) I have the light bronze factory tinted glass. Will this affect the color or appearance of my windows if I tint with the usual after market darker gray? I'm thinking of the LLumar brand.

    Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions!
  • rbacsafrarbacsafra Member Posts: 85
    I have a 95 Avalon XLS with now 83K miles I purchased certified last year.

    1) Yeah, TSBs are just there for the dealerships so they will acknowledge the problem. The Toyota dealership is not obligated to pay for any TSB work. Check your local Toyota dealer and see what they have to say. But most likely, you will have to pay out of your pocket. I haven't had time to look up for the repair myself.

    2) Unfortunately, the tension/spring rate of the accelerator is the same for all the 1MZ-FE V6 powered vehicles like the Camry, Solara, Avalon, Sienna, RX300 and ES300. You might wanna remove the slack out of your gas pedal by adjusting the trottle cable nuts.

    3) If you wanna upgrade to 16" wheels, it would be best to plus size your tires. Go to www.tirerack.com and find plus sizing there. An equivalent tire size from 205/65R15 is:

    205/60R16 (OEM size 16" on Solara/Avalon/Camry)
    215/55R16

    Yokohamas make a great tire..but if you are looking for quietness and quality...Michelin is the way to go.

    4) Is your tinted glass on all the windows? I have this bronze tint as well. It is a film. If you have this film on your glass, it would be best to strip them off and have the other film put on. I will be doing this soon on my Avalon. I most likely will get SolarGard 35 front and 20 in all the rears.

    If you have any questions, feel free to email me!
    Good luck!
    Ryan
    Flipside909@aol.com
    TeamSC³ - Founding Member
    www.geocities.com/teamsc3
  • psymacpsymac Member Posts: 4
    Thanks very much Ryan for your responses.

    Any downside in performance/ride/handling to going to 16" wheels? Also, any perference to 205/60 vs 215/55 size tires?

    I'll check out the TSB wind noise fix with Toyota and get back to you.

    Not sure about the tint, if if is on all windows, will check into that. Hopefully it can be removed and not interfere with the new gray tinting. You prefer Solargard over Llumar?

    Thanks again!
    Steve
  • rbacsafrarbacsafra Member Posts: 85
    Not necessarily. I wanna see someone's car with 3 or 4 year old Llumar tint. Formula One and Llumar are the same company. I've had SolarGard on my Corolla for 4 years and it held up pretty well. Here in SoCal, SolarGard seems to be most popular.

    I've driven an 2000 Camry XLE V6 with 16" wheels and a 2000 LE V6 with 15" wheels. The XLE with the 16" seemed to be as comfortable and handled a little better. The XLE had Michelin Engergy MXV4's which is a premium touring tire. The LE V6 I drove had either Dunlops or Generals. They sucked. =)

    I'm a biased Michelin person...so once these terrible, squeal happy Goodyear Eagles on my chrome OEM 15" rims go, Michelins will eventually be on my Avalon.

    Good Luck!
  • cblakecblake Member Posts: 5
    The pulling has been a common problem in some Toyota models, particularly the Sienna. You might check the archived messages on that topic on the Sienna boards. The pulling problem is the one problem that I have had without any permanent "fix." New tires and alignments have not resolved the situation.

    Please post your update here. My Sienna wanders. It is very difficult to keep it on a straight line course. I'm hearing all kinds of power steering noises now, too. I haven't been driving the van very much because I am waiting for an examination of the engine for sludge, among other things. The Toyota rep. is "dragging" his/her feet in making the appointment date (or my dealership is delaying) despite my request by the middle of December. But, that's fine...it will give me more time to gather information. ;-)

    Charlene Blake
    cblake@erols.com
  • pilot13pilot13 Member Posts: 283
    A.K.A. cblake2 --who sued Chrysler Corp in 1995 over a supposedly faulty ABS system on her Minivan, who tried vainly to get GM to cover all those repairs to her mother's Chevvy Cavalier, and who took on the Springfield Virginia Police Dept when they didn't solve the mystery of who stole her hubby's I.D. fast enough--oh, and a litany of other cause celebres where she felt the whole world was wrong and she was right?
    Any chance you are one and the same person? If so, who's next after you're through trashing Toyota?
  • rbacsafrarbacsafra Member Posts: 85
    LOL. Just wait til she buys another make. I wouldn't doubt if she bought a luxury car...she would sue the maker for price gouging on a luxury car. I wouldn't be surprised if she sued McDonalds for getting burnt drinking "HOT" coffee.

    Over in the complaint station, some guy lost his arbitration hearing about his sludge. Am I right Charlene? I guess that really helps your research now.

    This is all comedy to me now haha. CBLAKE...its a new year...sell your cars and give up. You aren't gonna win. Everyone knows too much about you now so they avoid you and give you the run around. Surrender because you have been heard too many times and been ignored over and over and over and over again.
  • pilot13pilot13 Member Posts: 283
    C. Blake actually owns the Complaint Station--there must be 50 or 60 of her "causes" there. If nothing else, they make for entertaining reading.
    She also has about 15 web sites and contributes to at least 25 more--try Yahoo, and prompt "Charlene Blake" to see what I'm talking about.
    Unfortunately, she is undeterred by criticism of any sort--a true believer that all automakers are doing the Devil's work to no one else but her.
    The best defense in this case is a good offense--every time she crops up with one of her manic postings, someone should immediately follow up with a factual (Emphasis on factual, not personal!) exposure of the real situation.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    She lives in Springfield Virginia! AAACCCCKKKK!!!! I sell Toyotas here. Thanks for the warning.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    No intelligence required.
  • pilot13pilot13 Member Posts: 283
    Sorry to be the bearer of such news Cliffy. Good news is that your integrity (and the products you sell) really stand tall in the face of any criticism!

    Sebring, in a few short words, you've said a ton!
    Thanks a whole bunch.

    Gotta run--I think I'm starting to sludge up!
  • rbacsafrarbacsafra Member Posts: 85
    QUICK!!! File a restraining order against her to keep her from coming near a 100 mile radius of your dealership! LOL
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    What move was that with the line, "Be afraid. Be very afraid." I may actually go through our system to see if she's been here.
  • chuttiechuttie Member Posts: 6
    Okay--I have 4 Toyotas--a 2000 Avalon--a 99 Taco ma--a 92 Corolla (86,000 plus)---an 86 Turbot 4x4 (213,000 plus) and never have had a Sludge problem. I change my oil cold every 3,000 to 4,000 miles. I generally change oil in the AM after the vehicle has sat all night--this allows the oil to completely drain from the engine to the pan and thus I think this results in a better oil change. Furthermore, I have proven to myself that this gets more oil out of the engine as the drain pan is fuller with this method than doing it while the engine is hot. Guess what I'm saying, is why do you have to change the oil when it's hot. You get more oil out this way, I have never had a sludge problem, and my vehicles continue to operate well. Any comments please??
  • trevor15trevor15 Member Posts: 1
    Can anyone tell me where I can purchase a rear spoiler to fit my car. I know that Southeast Toyota dealers sell them. I live in Arizona. Tnx.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    I think the idea with hot drains is that more contaminants drain out. The water and fuel that gets mixed into the oil is what really can hurt your engine.

    I have/had 4 Toyotas (personally and through my business) totalling 450K miles in that last 9 years. Don't think I've seen any sludge, but regardless, I just drive em. Nuttins blown up or left me stranded yet!
  • rzepa2rzepa2 Member Posts: 24
    I have 2001 XL with 1K miles on it.

    I noticed that the first time (after starting the car) when accelerating I feel (in gas pedal) a grind sensation and hear somewhat strange noise. It is almost like something is grinding - it last around 1-2 seconds.

    It does not happen in revers but first time in Drive
    and it only happens (as I stated before) one time after the car is started - I veryfied that.

    Anyone noticed - what is it ?
  • hawiianavownerhawiianavowner Member Posts: 76
    Start with ebay-if it is online. I saw one with an opening bid of $89.
  • rcegglrceggl Member Posts: 31
    Have also experienced problems keeping this car going straight. Going back to dealer for second time tomorrow. Driver's seat could be more comfortable, but, I have a feeling that a telescoping steering column would solve this problem. Let me explain, if I adjust the seat so my legs are comfortable, it is uncomfortable to reach the steering wheel. Thus as one moves their body, adjusts their body, discomfortis natural and permanent. NO--I do not have long legs!
  • aurelio3aurelio3 Member Posts: 1
    Purchased an Avalon XL And had the misfortune of getting into an accident the next day. I felt the tires were to blame because the car started hydro planing on slightly damp surface. I lost total control of the vehicle and hit a guard rail head on. Anyway to make a long story short I have also had a problem keeping the car in a straight line. Have brought it back to the dealer twice and the problem has yet to be solved. They now refuse to deal with me because they are saying it's screwed up because of my accident. Judging by all the posts on this board I know the accident has nothing to do with it. Somebody please tell me if they have been able to resolve this problem.

    Distressed Toyota Owner
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    What you are feeling is the ABS system doing a self diagnosis. It is normal.
  • joel2468joel2468 Member Posts: 75
    it has a few options added, but no sunroof, and no leather. I am having absolutely no luck getting comfortable in the driver's seat. No matter how I set the seat, my back is killing me. I have narrowed it down to the fact that there is a "hole" (so to speak) where the back of the seat and the bottom end of the seatback come together. I slip into this hole, and this adds pressure to what I feel is a badly placed lumbar support. Also, the seat back has a smaller flat area than most cars I've driven, and the rest is made up of two vertical pieces (on either side of the flat back) that create the curve in the seatback. The design has a tendency to pull me into the back of the seat, and up against that very painful lumbar support. And, the seat cushion is long, and comes up against the back of my knees. This makes it necessary to tilt the seat forward to take pressure off the artery behind the knee.

    I test drove an XLS with leather seats, but purchased the XL with cloth seats. I was assured by the dealer that the seats are the same, only the covering is different.

    A question for Avalon (2000 and 2001) owners (hopefully someone will be able to shed some light): ARE THE LEATHER SEATS THEMSELVES OF A BETTER QUALITY THAN THE CLOTH SEATS (SPECIFICALLY THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE SEAT) ? OR IS THE DIFFERENCE SIMPLY THE COVERING (CLOTH OR LEATHER) AND THE SEAT CONSTRUCTION IS THE SAME? DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR A HIGH QUALITY SEAT COVER THAT WOULD HAVE A LITTLE MORE PADDING?

    Although I have only 500 miles on the car, I will trade it if there is no solution to the problem. Anyone out there have any experience in trying to correct a bad decision with either (a) a return to the dealer or (b) a swap for another vehicle? (suggestions other than lemon laws, that is). A short test drive just isn't enough time to catch something like this. At this point, I am extremely disappointed in the Avalon.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    The seats are the same if you got the power seat package. Based on your problems with this, I have a couple of suggestions. First, lower the front of the seat cushion. You may need to play with how far forward or back you are and with the seat height but if you drop the front of the cushion, you will see that "hole" disappear.

    Next is the obvious. Play with the lumbar support. I find that many customers are aware that you can even adjust this. Between these two things, I'll bet you find a position similar to the comfort you found in the XLS.
  • joel2468joel2468 Member Posts: 75
    I have tried every position that the seat can be put into. And, I have played with the lumbar support. I am somewhere between 5.7 and 5.8, and just can't seem to find a comfortable spot. Thanks for the confirmation on the seats (the XL has power seats, so they should be the same). Do you have any idea(s) why identical seats in the XL (cloth covered) and XLS (leather covered) would feel different? (I wouldn't feel bad if you told me I was just imagining this, but they did feel different...maybe I was just hypnotized by the large information display on the dash).
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    ... but I don't think I can. The only other thing I can think of is that the stiffness of the leather was enough to make the seat shape feel different. I have had several customers sit in two different car and think the seats were different only because of how it was adjusted when they got in.

    I'm not saying you are imagining this but it could be that your first impression was very good and you remember it being better than it was. It is also possible that since you are looking so carefully at seating position now that you are being overly critical of the seat.

    I'm at a loss. I hope you can work something out.
  • rzepa2rzepa2 Member Posts: 24
    ABS self test ?

    Yeah, I somewhat thought that was some kind of
    self test but maybe not ABS since my previous
    GM car did ABS test on the first break pedal
    engagment, not the gas pedal.

    Anyway, thanks again as I'll sleep better now...
  • cblake2cblake2 Member Posts: 53
    "Aurelio3," the pulling problem has been documented by owners here for some time. The usual attempts to repair are another alignment, rotating and balancing the tires, replacing the tires, etc. As yet, the pulling on my '99 Sienna continues despite the above measures and more.

    I found your hydroplaning account interesting because of something that happened in my van yesterday. Light, powdery snow had been falling for a short period and there was a mere dusting on the ground. There was no ice anywhere. I came to a four-way stop and put my foot to the brake gently all the way. Suddenly, my van's tires locked after making a grinding noise (loud) and I slid right through the intersection. I had been going *very slowly* prior to the stop and I *did* use my ABS correctly (no pumping). It was quite scary considering that I had just been through a major intersection a few hundred feet prior to this.

    Were you going at a very low speed into the damp area, too? The locking on my van occurred prior to getting the brake pedal all the way down. I would not have been able to do a thing to correct this situation. I was thankful that the cars on the other side of the four-way stop were going straight and not turning into my path.

    E-mail me the particulars in your situation. I'd like to compare notes further. Thanks.

    Charlene Blake
    cblake@erols.com
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    To stay off the roads here in Springfield when it snows. Now I know why they close the schools at the first drop of a snow flake.
  • pilot13pilot13 Member Posts: 283
    We lived for a dozen years in "The Great White North"-- the wilds of the British Columbia interior. One learns quickly to be respectful of even the slightest dusting of snow on roads--especially where gravity enters the scene (as in hills--altho' ours were a bit more challenging than those in Northern Virginia). We now live in Southern Ontario in the Great Lakes snow belt, where the land is flat, but the hazards associated with snow are every bit as serious.A tractor with plow,plus a snowblower are required home survival equipment here.
    To listen to Ms. Blake's experience, one concludes that her Sienna Van has had a big time voodoo curse placed on it, causing it to be possessed with a mind of its own when being driven--especially when roads are slippery. The evidence of this is clear--Light dusting of snow, and the darn thing just up and drove itself right thru an intersection!
    All kidding aside--it's patently clear that ANYONE who slides thru an intersection (Or hits a retaining wall) when brakes are being applied in these conditions is just going TOO FAST for the road conditions.
    We see these people up here in Canada by the score--It's very lucrative to be in the towing business in these parts!
    My take on the scenario she describes is that if she is typical of Virginia drivers--maybe it's a good idea to park one's car and take the bus.( I'm sure she's not, tho'.) Sounds like there's an accident waiting to happen with that particular Sienna driver whenever it snows there.
    Maybe she needs an exorcist, not a mechanic? Just a thought!
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    If she was going as slow as she said she was, she may have been on the verge of the ABS speed limit. ABS might have kicked in just at that point and when the speed limiter was reached it simply locked the brakes. If the brakes "locked up" and the vehicle "slid right through the intersection" it obviously was ice. I've never seen a very slow moving vehicle lock tires and slide through an intersection on dry/even wet pavement. Physics has something to do with that!

    Snow on the ground and no ice anywhere! Hahahahahaha that's HILARIOUS! Around here, we have alot of black ice. No ice anywhere, until you hit that patch you didn't see! Even if you don't see it, by golly it's still there. I think Charlene needs more simple transportation. Probably couldn't do too much damage on a bicycle, and when it falls apart (lemon) she's only out a couple hundred bucks.
  • cblake2cblake2 Member Posts: 53
    I just want to make sure I was clear. There was no ice. There was no black ice. The snow had just started to fall in the previous two hours. I was going less than 10 miles per hour in anticipation of the routine four-way stop.

    I have lived in this area for almost two decades now. I have seen all varieties of snow storms, ice storms, sleeting/freezing rain conditions, etc. That amount of snow should NOT have created that response in the ABS.

    In addition to these clarifications, I want to add that as an automobile driver for many years, I have not had an accident. Some young kid ran into the back of my '95 Honda Odyssey when I was sitting a stoplight once, but even then, there was only minor cosmetic damage. I am and always have been a very conservative driver. This is why I am extremely puzzled by this brake reaction.

    I am not up for ABS component failure on a third minivan. Let's hope the situation is an isolated one that will not recur. Let's also hope that others have not had similar occurrences in this van. I won't take chances, though. I am going to document it just in case.

    Charlene Blake
    cblake@erols.com
  • pilot13pilot13 Member Posts: 283
    When did this Topic change from Avalon to Sienna? Having said that, Here's my opinion on the slip/sliding incidents, above. ABS systems have been around for a very long time--especially in aviation where the need to maintain control on slippery runways is pretty darn important, for obvious reasons. The systems themselves are fairly uncomplicated, and largely trouble free. They simply involve sensors which sense wheel lockup and allow braking action to be applied selectively and intermittently to individual wheels.Directional control of the vehicle is thus maintained more effectively than if all wheels were locked up at once.
    Typical driver sensations when applying brakes in slippery conditions will be (1) Audible pulsing or grinding sound (some describe this as a vibration); (2) brake pedal pusates or vibrates underfoot -- very noticeably; (3) vehicle will steer straight ahead unless driver tries to steer right or left. Depending on surface conditions, the vehicle may not always respond to attempts to steer at all.
    In terms of slipperiness of the road surface, it is often impossible to judge this. Any number of variables come into play here--saying that the snow was light and powdery, or non slippery, is a serious mistake and can get one into trouble in a hurry.There is only one way to accurately determine slipperiness, and that is by using an instrument to measure the James Brake Index of the surface. Pilots (I'm one of those) rely on runway reports giving this info before landing in wet (Paticularly just after rain begins), snow, or ice conditions, to determine whether or not it's safe to land, or how much runway is needed to come to a safe and complete stop.
    What may seem as an innocuous 2 or 3 cm. of light, powdery, non slippery snow,or just a damp runway, can often turn into a nightmare of uncontrolled sliding.
    My take on the above described incidents is that the braking systems did exactly as intended, and probably helped avoid more serious problems. Too many people make mistakes in judging road surface conditions--and far more seem to think that their car's ABS systems are going to get them out of trouble no matter what the road conditions.
    Ms. Blake, it ain't always Toyota's fault!
  • jeffg9jeffg9 Member Posts: 2
    We are looking forward to picking up our new Avalon XLS within the next week. Options include Package 7, the glass breakage sensor, mats, etc. SC and other safety and security features were a major reason for selecting the Avalon over other cars. In reviewing the brochure we saw reference to the VIP 3200 (or is it 2300?) option but have been unable to get any details. Can someone please provide info on the following:

    What is it its purpose?
    What are its pro's and cons.
    What does it add over the standard equipment on the XLS?
    Is it dealer installed or should it have been ordered from the factory?
    What is reasonable for wholesale and retail cost (it does not appear on the BB or any other web site that I can find)?

    Thanks.

    AS - Thank you to all of the contributors to this message board. You have been a valuable resource in our car selection process.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    The RS3200 is only applicable to the XL model. The XLS already has a superior security system so don't worry about it.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    I really appreciate your participation here. You keep some of the heat off of me.
  • jeffg9jeffg9 Member Posts: 2
    I am going to try this one more time (the spell check changed some of the text in the earlier post)

    We are looking forward to picking up our new Avalon XLS within the next week. Options include Package 7, the glass breakage sensor, mats, etc. VSC and other safety and security features were a major reason for selecting the Avalon over other cars. In reviewing the brochure we saw reference to the VIP 3200 (or is it 2300?) option but have been unable to get any details. Can someone please provide info on the following:

    What is it its purpose?
    What are its pro's and cons.
    What does it add over the standard equipment on the XLS?
    Is it dealer installed or should it have been ordered from the factory?
    What is reasonable for wholesale and retail cost (it does not appear on KBB or any other web site that I can find)?

    Thanks.

    PS - Thank you to all of the contributors to this message board. You have been a valuable resource in our car selection process.
  • dmckay1dmckay1 Member Posts: 1
    I just bought a 98 XLS which comes with leather/power seats. Like Joel, I too am unable to find a comfortable seating position with the Avalon. I'm confused by the fact that I can't get comfortable and am afraid I maid a costly mistake.

    I am 6'2", so I'm not all that tall. I wonder if the Avalon was built for someone < 6 feet tall. Anyone out there able to get comfortable in this car taller than 6 ft?
  • rzepa2rzepa2 Member Posts: 24
    Did anyone find a good seat covers ?
    I am concern w/r to the placement of
    the side airbags. Does anyone make
    such covers that are non-intrusive
    w/r to the side airbags ?
  • pilot13pilot13 Member Posts: 283
    Cliffy, I thank you for your remark--but in truth, you do far more for us than we do for you.
    Besides, I truly believe that much of that "moanin' and groanin" by you know who is really nit pickin' and little more. It really ticks me off!
    One of these days we'll fly over to Shenandoah Valley Regional (Just outside of Staunton), and look you up--It's one of our favourite stops in the USA, and about 2 hours' flying time from here..
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    If you want to see an interesting bulletin board that actually endeavors to solve problems by group effort, check out tundrasolutions.com.

    Also, if you are interested in fishing, come on out this spring. You name it and VA has it and I've got the boat to get there. I've taken more than one TH participant out and I'll open that invitation to anybody here.
  • jimcarrjimcarr Member Posts: 37
    I owned a 98XLS for two years, traded it in on a 2kXLS and never had a problem with the front seat comfort. I am 73 inches tall and weigh 265 pounds. Just keep adjusting the seat and you will find a position that will satisfy your aching back. It may take a while, but it is there.
  • belanger3belanger3 Member Posts: 13
    Hi! I have test driven 2 avalon's and I LOVE THEM!
    My husband wants us to look at the highlander. I say will be too expensive < no discount off list>
    I have never riden in anything like the avalon. Is there anyone out there who can justify spending $30,000 on a avalon ?? Thanks
    Barbara
  • belanger3belanger3 Member Posts: 13
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