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But at least the IS300 had a "fair" fight with its most significant competitor, which is the 325i and NOT the 330i. Readers could make up their own minds based on the results and pricing.
And to be "fair" to C&D, the G35 and TL used their outstanding power to come in 1st and 3rd, respectively. By 2004, both the IS and 325i are down on power.
My own subjective opinion is that in automatic form, the IS300 is quite a bit quicker than the 325i.. I guess that evens out with the manual.. must be the gearing..
But, I have to agree with C&D.. I prefer the total package of the 325i to the IS300.. Although I like the IS300 a lot more than most reviewers.. I like the "chronograph" gauges and the interior..
regards,
kyfdx
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I thought the Lexus warranty was 4/50 just like BMW?
I agree about the "free" maintenance.. A lot of people "pooh-pooh" it.. but, if you ever had a luxury import dealer put brakes on your car.... Or even if you've paid for an $80 oil change.. It is a big deal..
I like the IS300... Besides, if you want a rear-wheel drive, small sport sedan, how many choices do you have?
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And you can buy a bumper-to-bumper extended warranty direct from Lexus. I've extended my '04 IS out to 7/100; paid $1,625 at time of purchase (and financed at low LFS interest rate as part of overall sale).
While I've heard BMW might (is?) offering extension to original warranty, I haven't confirmed it. Do you know if you can buy a b-to-b extension? If so, wonder how much it is on 3 Series? I do know BMW will sell you an extension on the "maintenance".
Both Lexus and BMW have CPO programs for used cars. BMWs adds 2/50. Lexus adds 3/50.
Lexus dealers provider loaner cars. Most (nearly all?) BMW dealers will, but only if you buy the car from them.
Those prices are for RWD 3-series.. Other models are higher.
Loaners are a pain.. the dealer that services my car will provide one, even though I didn't buy there, but the lead time for one makes it a moot point..
regards,
kyfdx
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1. Reliability: Lexus and the IS are the gold standard of reliability. Just compare 3 Series to IS in places like Consumer Reports or JD Powers.
2. Safety: Both the IS and 3 Series have done well with both NHTSA and IIHS crash test results.
And if it means anything, the Lexus dealerships are normally nicer than the BMW ones (at least in my area). The Lexus ones are dedicated to the marque; in my area the BMW dealers are tied to other marques (e.g., the BMW dealer in Omaha NE is next to the Ford dealer and has a parking mess, the ones in Lincoln NE and Des Moines IA also sell marques like MB).
So adding these two factors to the rest of the performance, price, value mix, warranty, and service mix, the IS still is heads and shoulders above the 325i.
And, my local dealer is BMW/MINI only... and it is their only dealership.. It was started in the late '70s.. and still has the original owner.. For the first ten years, he was also the service manager!!
All of those things might put Lexus ahead of BMW, but it still doesn't make the IS300 a better car to drive than a 325i. If you want the best, sometimes you have to make sacrifices.. The drive is what counts (he says while tooling home in his Honda CR-V).
regards,
kyfdx
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Fortunately, if you want a small all around serious sport sedan, the IS300 can't be beat. Esp. if you get the 5-speed manual and LSD!
R&T, April 2001: BMW 330i vs IS300 (both automatics)
Final Drive: 3.46 vs 3.909
1st/Overall/Max MPH: 3.67/12.7/37 vs 3.36/13.13/35
2nd: 2.00/6.92/67 vs 2.18/8.52/54
3rd: 1.41/4.88/96 vs 1.42/5.55/83
4th: 1.00/3.46/128(l) vs 1.00/3.90/118
5th: .74/2.56/128(l) vs .75/2.93/143(l)
Engine RPM in top gear 60 mph: 2000 vs 2500
EPA MPG: 19/27 vs 18/23
where (l)= electronically limited
NOTICE HOW THE IS CAN"T GET TO 60 MPH UNTIL IT GETS TO THIRD GEAR. THAT CRIPPLES THE 0-60 MPH TIME!
C&D, March 2004: 325i vs IS300, both manuals
Final Drive: 3.15 vs 3.727
1st: 4.23/13.32 vs 3.57/13.31
2nd: 2.52/7.94 vs 2.06/7.68
3rd: 1.66/5.23 vs 1.38/5.14
4th: 1.22/3.83 vs 1.00/3.73
5th: 1.00/3.15 vs .85/3.17
EPA MPG: 20/29 vs 18/25
Notice how the 325i does NOT have an overdrive 5th but that the IS overdrive 5th is not as deep as in the automatic! And notice how the 330i gets same EPA highway mileage, due to overdrive.
The gearing and the low gas mileage are definitely negatives to the IS300... I'm sure the next model will be better.. That is one thing it shares with the 3-series.. both are getting long in the tooth...
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Don't think 2 lbs will make too much difference. Put 'em in and see how it works for you on the roads you drive.
Toyota also determined that owners/leasees weren't following the "severe service" intervals as needed.
An excerpt:
"So how is an owner to determine the threshold between 'normal' and 'severe' service? Toyota concluded that an owner couldn't be expected to know and has since revised its oil-change shedules for all its vehicles to 5000 miles."
Decided I wanted V-rated tires. Went with 205/50VR17s, instead of the 16 inch tires. There weren't any speed ratings above H for 215/45-17s that match the standard sedan tires.
I'm sure you give up some winter weather traction, but it is worth it considering you spend 90% of the time on dry roads.. Just put my winters back on last week...
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http://money.cnn.com/2004/11/08/pf/autos/cr_auto_reliability/
- 27.06 mpg= 392.5 miles using 14.505 gallons.
This trip was about 59% 64 mph 2-lane county roads, 39% 74 mph interstate highways, and 2% driving in (small) city.
- 26.04 mpg= 352.4 miles using 13.534 gallons.
This trip was about 79% 74 mph interstate highway, 19% 64-mph 2-lane county roads, and 2% driving in (big) city.
For both trips, I likely used cruise control about 95%+ of the time.
I only use 92 octane Amoco (Standard) Ultimate premium.
First thing I noticed is that there wasn't much about the IS. (Though there wasn't much about the ES or GS. Mostly about the early history and the LS, SC, & RX.)
Was nice to see a photo of the IS instrument cluster as the first photo. Then nothing until a huge action photo of a bright yellow IS zooming down a county road on pages 198-199. Then just three more photos, including 2 of Team Lexus. The entire IS text is on pages 200-201 plus a small mention on page 218 about the IS in Europe:
"The best-selling Lexus in Europe is the IS 200, a smaller-displacement version of the American IS."
Book posits that the primary purpose of the IS was to bring in a new type Lexus buyer, esp. a younger one, as by 2000 average buyer age had stablized at about 50 and were weak in the coveted 35-45 age range, and to bring the concept of driving excitement back to Lexus, which had come to mean rather sedate luxury in the minds of buyers.
As with most things IS, book falls into the dreaded 330i trap:
"With a powerful inline 6 beneath the hood and Formula 1-inspired gear shifters on the steering wheel, the IS 300 was judged a worthy challenger to the BMW 330i."
Book at least honest to say:
"The sport sedan hasn't knocked the 3 Series off its perch atop its class, but it has garnered a devoted following."
Technical Editor Mike Miller has some fascinating comments in the February 2005 issue of Bimmer magazine. As Mike points out in his article on manual transmission and differential fluid changes:
Pre-"free" "recommended" maintenance intervals:
- 1,200 mile break-in service
- oil changes every 3,000 miles
- automatic transmission fluid and filter change every 15,000 miles
- manual transmission fluid change every 30,000 miles
- differential fluid changed every 30,000 miles
- brake fluid chance annually
- coolant fluid changed every 2 years
Post-"free" "recommended" maintenance intervals:
- No initial break in service (except M)
- Oil and filter change around 15,000 miles
- No automatic transmission fluid or filter changes
- No manual transmisison fluid changes
- No differential fluid changes
- brake fluid changed every 2 years
- coolant fluid changed every 3 years
He also points out:
"BMW dealership technicians no long open up gearboxes and differentials for repairs. Instead, the factory fix is to buy a BMW remanufactured gearbox or differential--or automatic transmission-instead."
"No one knows exactly what BMW's proprietary ATF is, so no one knows if there are viable alternatives. We do know that BMW dealerships charge about $500 for an ATF and filter service, mainly due to the price of the ATF. That's assuming you can get them to do the job, which is often not the case."
Noticed a very small story in the 12/6/04 issue of Autoweek, actually an obituary:
"Vernon Gleasman, inventor of the Torsen differential, died Nov. 18 at the age of 92."
Got me wondering if the fact that the '05 IS300 manual can no longer be had with its Torsen LSD might have been a contributing factor, no matter how small? I love my '04 manual's Torsen LSD!
Lexus won overall (910) beating out Porsche (903), Cadillac (902), and BMW (900). And Lexus had 5 top Three finishers.
"Entry Luxury": Chrysler 300(2005), Acura TL, and (tie) LEXUS IS300 sedan/SportCross & Cadillac CTS.
Lexus Top 3 "winners": IS300, LS430, RX330, GX470, & LX470.
BMW's were 5 Series, 7 Series, X5, & Z4, plus Mini Cooper.
any help apprecicated,
DL
Mechanically these cars are really solid so I would feel pretty good about buying a used one if it had been well taken care off.
Key for used car:
- Have a mechanic look it over and do inspect for any body damage/repairs that might indicate major accident
- Look over all the service records to make sure all maintenance was done on schedule
- Run CARFAX report
- Estimate the way the prior owner(s) drove the car: were they "hard" on it? Tire wear and length of time they got out of a set of tires is one small indicator.
- If they normally had it serviced at one Lexus dealer, ask the dealer to pull their records and see what all has been done.
1.g20 radio died was replaced even though warranty was expired.
2.323i a/c compressor clutch froze after 1000 miles, salesman gave me his 528i to drive while waiting a month on the part from Germany.
So 1 problem for 48 month i consider pretty good.
DL
Have you looked into Lexus Certified Pre-owned (CPO)? Adds 3 years of warranty coverage. You pay a bit more but get the peace of mind
Yes. And really look at the Carfax report. If you see the car titled in multiple states that reeks.
Go Sooners
The IS300 is more car for the money than the 323i/325i. More standard features and better optional features (LSD). Better warranty. Better reliability. Better dealer sales and service.
But both are great all around sport sedans.
If you drive an automatic (my wife does, I don't), the the lack of torque in the 2.5L motor is apparent.
The biggest failing for the IS is the lack of a BMW-like Sport Pkg.
A base 325i manual with Sport Pkg is a wonderful car. One I highly recommend. Can't say same for a $35,000 MSRP 325i automatic with Premium Package. That one I'd avoid.
DL
Does the 2002 require premium fuel? What's the gas mileage rating for this car.
I'm looking at buying a private party 2002 for 25K. It only has 13k miles and looks like it has been babied really well.
Any thoughts on this price?
Gas mileage.. I think rated at 18/23 MPG, but you'll have to ask actual owners for their feedback..
13K miles is great, but the price is still a little stiff. For that price, you could probably get an '03 from a Lexus dealer and have a CPO warranty that would cover you for 3 years and up to 100K total vehicle mileage.
regards,
kyfdx
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What have people really paid for a new one including taxes and licensing???
I've checked the local dealer CPO stock.
They have same cars 3x mileage at $26.9K.
New cars are $34K plus tax.
So 2002 with 13k miles for $25k seems pretty good deal?????
If they are asking $25K, there should be some room to move.. Obviously, they don't "need" the car, if they only put 5K miles per year on it... So, unless they want to make a planter out of it, I'm thinking $22K-$23K is a pretty fair deal all of the way around.. and thats only because of the ultra low miles.
regards,
kyfdx
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I don't doubt that people are asking that much for used ones. I guess they must sell them to people who don't know what new ones are really going for. The dealer I bought mine from admitted that the two year old CPO car on his lot would cost me more than a brand new one with the same equipment!
I'm assuming when you say new ones are $34K, that you are talking about MSRP. Last year ISs were selling for $6K under MSRP around here and I can't imagine why they would be doing any better this year. As I said, when I was shopping, typically equipped ISs were going for $27-28K. I ended up getting a lot of options that aren't typically on the lot - Nav ($1800), Graphite wheels ($400), heated seats (S400), spoiler ($250), LSD ($400) and I got mine for $30,700.
I'm just recommending that you really see what you could get a new one for before buying a used one.
and Power Train Warranty (engine & transmission) until June/2009
the 25k is firm according to the seller. No matter which price guide I check his price is in the middle.
I appreciate your feedback.
Yes, I was quoting 34K as MSRP. I havent followed Lexus prices previously and wasnt aware how close to invoice they would go.
I will definitely take a hard look at new.
thanks
Thanks,
DL
If I was you, I'd barain hard with a Lexus dealer on the sale of a new one. They might even have an '04 on the lot. You won't pay anything near MSRP if you are a serious buyer with good credit history or paying cash.
If you buy used, you should try to bargain hard with a Lexus dealer about a CPO model. The advertised price is NOT what you'll pay if you negotiate hard and know your stuff. Advertised used car price is just like MSRP, it is negotiable and only those who lack knowledge pay it.
My '04 IS300 sedan manual gets about 24-26 mpg on highway at 74 mph using cruise control. All ISs have recommended premium fuel (91 octane).
Of course, this was last summer. It could be that they overproduced them in 2003 and had to discount heavily to get them off the lots. They may have curtailed production to better match demand and aren't dealing on them any more.
DL
- Run CARFAX report
- Ask to see all service records
- Talk to the servicing dealer and ask to see their records
- Take it for a very thorough test drive to see how everything sounds and works
- Have a mechanic look it over
- Check the tires out carefully (can give you an idea how the owner has treated it), looking for wear, in general, and any odd wear (might be out of alignment or have had air pressure issues)
Try to get a certified pre-owned (CPO) car from Lexus, so it is under Lexus warranty after the initial warranty period (believe CPO adds 3/50 from the date of CPO purchase)