Older Acura TLs

kfhmail · December 2003

(debis04tl...You Said...
HOWEVER the WDP does come with ebony interior but again only if you choose the Dynamic pkg.. )

Is the dynamic package the same as the ground affects?

I would like to have a whit ext. with ebony/black interior but have not seen that as an option???????????

kfhmail · December 2003

Hey guys...do you pay taxes on the delivery charge and the admin/tag/title fee or just the car price?

billyperks · December 2003

Everytime you post pictures of your TL I am tempted to trade in my 03.

debis04tl · December 2003

without that added protection it will make that NEW car look USED much faster. I am not willing to take that chance. One thing you cannot control is the JERK that parks next to you or their kids that have not been taught to be carefull or respectfull of someone elses property. Unfortunately that lack of respect is not limited to children.

debis04tl · December 2003

the brochure I picked up at the dealer showing of the new TL,(printed in the USA) says the Dynamic pkg. is the 6 speed manual with limit slip different, it also has Brembo's and larger front and rear stabilizer bars. It also looks like it can have the HandsFreeLink without the Navi System. Tire size is the same but they are listed as summer high performance.....that's the car that will come with the ebony interior only, at least in Canada... that is it. Ground effects also known as an Aero Pkg.or front, rear and side skirts, according to the same brochure I mentioned above,are added to the bottom of the car to give it a "lower" look. See my pictures around 4720. Often a rear lip or a rear wing spoiler will be added to complete the transformation. As you can tell I preferred the wing. Hope this helps.

automophile · December 2003

I can't believe all the posts in one day! I guess a lot of people are off these weeks!

Break-In - Thanks all for your comments, but I meant 2500 as a steady speed, say on the freeway. This is around 70 or so, so no problem, but I did keep it at 60 for a couple hundred miles. During accelleration, 4K was common. May or not be necessary, but cheap insurance to me.

Bra Paulg -This is L.A. so anything goes!

debis Nice pics! The car looks great - what a nice color ; ) The coming storm looked a little nasty though. A tip for pics of white cars - the camera's auto-exposure makes white too dark, so you may want to brighten the pictures up a little. Same for snow pics.

billyperks Yours is out there waiting for you!

shenkar · December 2003

Sorry if the hyperbole about the "27" digs from your friends threw you. I thought you would know I wasn't being serious about the number of items that were being called into question. The 27 was just there for effect.

My appraisal of these cars being outstanding stems from thoroughly investigating them, in comparision with the other vehicles on the market that are positioned as direct competitors. The assessment is not off the wall, and has been validated in virtually every print and electronic media devoted to these things. It's also supported by anecdotal reviews from numerous owners of both these vehicles, in forums such as this one.

In large part, it also stems from my ownership of 29 or so, high-line cars, over the last 30 years including Jags, Porches, Vettes, BMW's and 16 or 17 Benzes. This gave me a persective from which I think I can tell an "outstanding" car when I drive one, even without spending thousands of miles of seat time in them.

We owned 2 S-Class and 1 E-Class Mercedes (which are also generally considered to be outstanding cars) until last month, when we traded one of the S models for a '04 Nissan Quest SE. The second S should be replaced by an '04 TL w/Nav, hopefully before 12/31. The E Model should be gone and a GX in it's place within 30-45 days.

Perhaps then I'll be in a position to provide useful information.

mrtech · December 2003

Does anyone know the bulb # (like H1 or H3) for the 04 TL driving/fog lights? Do you have to remove the battery to get your hand in and replace the driver side fog light?

scblues2000 · December 2003

Hey,

Was catching up on the postings here, and noticed a few regarding color combos on the new TL. I recently bought the blue/camel combo and love it!
I was interested in the green/camel as well, but when I saw it in person, the camel looked too much like orange. The dark blue gives the camel interior a nice rich look. Another nice combo might be the black and camel. Dark-colored cars do require more effort when it comes to cleaning them, but I think they look really sharp.

As for squeaks, rattles, noises, etc., I have had none so far. At just over 1,000 miles, this car is great!

Have a good Christmas!

free7bird · December 2003

Was just wondering if you could post some more pictures of your tl. I'm trying to get some good views to decide on accessories.
Thanks

debis04tl · December 2003

When you are looking for a new car, one way to know past reliability for that model is to ask the price of an extended warranty, then compare it with other manufactures using the same warranty figures. The higher the cost the lower the reliability. After all, the people providing the warranties are really just Insurance companies. I would like to take credit for this but it really came from my Acura service advisor who used to work for Mazda. She says the Acura warranty is less expensive...??Whowouldofthunkit!!

1hopeck · December 2003

Just a thought about Acura warranty work....if one owns a 04 TL can they take it to a Honda dealer and have the repairs completed under (Acura/Honda) warranty? I know for a fact Hondas and Acuras roll off the same assembly line in Marysville and the old CL in East Liberty. I would think Honda would honor the work at either dealership. I know GM does for any make.

1hopeck · December 2003

Can anyone confirm this feedback from an auto test results....

The much-touted DVD-Audio 5.1 surround sound system fell short of expectations. Through a couple Steely Dan and Fleetwood Mac selections provided by Acura and selected by the system's developer, Grammy Award-winning music producer/engineer Elliott Scheiner, the most discernible difference between the 2-channel CD/DVD system and the 6-channel DVD-A 5.1 system was just that, four more channels. Granted, the sound was physically more surrounding, but it was no fuller or richer. We're not audio experts, but we recall the dimensional depth Dolby added to analog recordings as being a bigger leap forward.

debis04tl · December 2003

First, it's God not god.... second, if you dont't like VSC, TURN IT OFF!!!Third, sounds like you should go to bed and get out the other side in the morning. Life is too short to waste time like this. Anyway, thanks for your opinion.....Dos'nt your car need fixin ? By the way, I am not selling my TL for $200.00 in ten years and just to be on the safe side I am only skidding 999 times, then I will push the button... I am up to 6 already. If anything happens in between I will sue, EH! Have a nice day..

raytl · December 2003

For dog's sake let's avoid theological debates.

As for VSC, I bet Acura engineers incorporated error checking in the circuitry. It is correct, however, that repair bills in 10 or more years will be high because of these electronic bells and whistles.

As for employing VSC, I think it is best to treat this like anti-lock brakes, a safety feature that is there for emergencies and is not routinely employed. Using this logic, VSC should only be employed a small number of times during your vehicle's life and will not become a dependency. It statistically improves safety but does not provide a guarantee against accidents resulting from a skid.

dulnev · December 2003

Dumbest speculation I've ever read! First of all, I'm sure there are numerous safety systems preventing this from happening. Second, VSC does not have the capability to apply brakes hard enough to make the car swerve into oncoming traffic before the driver can compensate.

94supra · December 2003

Lawyers and the insurance industry do profoundly impact our driving experience in interesting ways. An example is the disclaimer we must answer before using the navigation system. This wrong-headed approach assumes the options are either to use navigation or to stop and read a map. Of course, the far more common option in may real world situations (crazy traffic and no where to stop) will be to look at a paper map or written driving directions while driving. Good navigation systems with voice and heads-up displays can be 1000 times safer and they will keep many accidents from happening, but they will inevitably contribute to a few accidents and the lawyers will have a field day in those cases.

Airbags obviously help in the vast majority of wrecks, but they occasionally cause problems that result in large settlements. VSC will probably be the same way. For every 1000 accidents it prevents, it may cause or make more serious 50. In those cases, the insurance companies will be writing very large checks and this is the incentive for car companies to implement it correctly. As long as it results in a net savings for the insurance industry (including their liability coverage for automotive manufacturers), they will continue to encourage the development and adoption of these systems by all vendors. We may think our driving experience is mostly about catering to our desires, but much of it is about insurance, lawyers and money. On the whole, this process does improve the quality and safety of our vehicles, but occasionally (as with navigation systems) it may slow down early adopter progress.

More automation is inevitable. I think VSC will become pervasive unless the statistics change dramatically. In the next 10-15 years, it will actually become practical to build cars that drive themselves and this will profoundly change our driving experience. Drive by wire (which is already beginning to control our vehicle performance envelope) plus navigation will become a full autopilot and the insurance industry will encourage the change. They will make sure the autopilots drive without aggression resulting in a statistical drop in accidents while reducing emissions and improving fuel mileage. It may eventually become more expensive or impossible to buy a car you can actually control yourself. Those who actually enjoy driving better enjoy the cars like the TL (or even higher performance cars) while they still exist because profound changes are coming.

debis04tl · December 2003

On a more serious note,ABS, EBD, VSA, SRS, OPDS, ALR, ELR, ECU AND THE OTHER 10 safety features of the 04 TL, as per the brochure, all add up to a lower Insurance premium for the physical damage section of your policy, In some cases it is only about 1/2 of the competition in the same class, at least here in Canada. You can be sure that the Insurance industry has taken notice of the TL's safety features, put their stamp of approval on them and have treated the car accordingly. I will actually pay less this year than my wife with her 2000 S-10 2WD. I like that!!

kennyg5 · December 2003

Hope that you are right about the decrease in insurance premium. With the increase in hp (particularly compared with the 03 TL), the sportier demeanor, and the higher replacement cost of the 04 TL, I thought insurance companies may want to increase the premium instead :-)

vinceb81 · December 2003

Quick question. I was told the 2004 TL had a 17 gallon tank. I have filled up twice since I had the car and both times I only put about 13 gallons. The gas light came on both times. Something is not right. Any body else experienced the same problem. Thanks.

exb0 · December 2003

My insurance premium on 2004 TL is $150 lower than my wife's 2004 Accord LX w/ 150HP. Go figure!

dulnev · December 2003

Sounds like this is your first Acura. It's my third and I'm used to super-conservative setting for the fuel gauge. To get the tank to only 0.5 gallons (where the engine starts to stutter) you have to go the equivalent of about 1/8 of the scale PAST the Empty mark.

The typical scenario for me with 2003 TL-S was: the light comes on about 1/8 of the scale before the Empty mark. I fill up at Empty or a little past emtpy and put in about 15 gallons.

vinceb81 · December 2003

Dulnev - Yes this is my first Acura. Hard to believe the gas light comes on and I still have four gallons. The computer said I had 37 miles to empty. Being a new car, did not want to run out of gas. Thanks.

debis04tl · December 2003

in my earlier message on Insurance is that most of the savings over other cars is because Acura in Canada, at least, sell or includes, for $249,00, a program called "Protector Plus". This program says that the theft deterrant system as part of the car, is second to none, and they insure you vehicle will not be stolen because it severly limits thieves ability to steal the TL and dispose of all the parts or the car itself. Insurance companies have a Rate Group system produced by a company that crash tests cars and rates them for damage and theft. The TL is in rate group 16 for comprehensive, (fire, theft, glass etc.) The BMW 325 2dr. is rate group 32 for the 03 model year. This is where most of your Insurance savings come from. The rate group system has more to do with how your car will stand up in a crash and how unlikely it is to be stolen. Sooo...auto makers are producing better, safer,theft proof cars, and the new TL is one of the first examples. If you love life, a new TL would be a good choice. and you can save money doing it!!

automophile · December 2003

1hopeck - NO - it is not going to be a great quantum leap in sound quality like from cassette to CD, if that is what were expecting.

However, the ability to provide sound from multiple directions can give you a great improvement in enjoyability. The artists and producers can and will place sounds AROUND you as well as in front of you. Individual sounds can be separated more, so they don't all get mushed together. Surround sound is more natural. Room ambience can be properly reproduced so that playback of live performances and symphonies can now sound like the hall they were recorded in.

Presently, THIS is the state of the audio art, and only the TL has it.

kfhmail · December 2003

debis04tl...you say in your message #4736 that you can get the white exterior (WDP) with the ebony/black interior with the dynamic package.

Did you mean some other color besides white (ext). I cannot find in the brochure where you can get white ext. with black int.

brew99 · December 2003

Move to the great white north and you can get your very own WDP with ebony interior colour option. Just don't try to get navi with a 6 speed and I hope that you are ok with only a 3-year warranty and the 15% or so sales taxes....:)

bodble2 · December 2003

we do get the 5-yr/100,000km powertrain warranty.

debis04tl · December 2003

Looks like you have your answer. The dynamic pkg. interior only comes in ebony, one color, no choices, no matter what the exterior color is. Also, in this pkg. you cannot get desert mist or abyss blue.

kahunah · December 2003

Just to clarifiy, these are the only available colour combos for the dynamic package sold in Canada (see back page of Canadian brochure):

White Diamond Pearl & Ebony
Nighthawk Black Pearl & Ebony
Satin Silver Metallic & Ebony
Anthracite Metallic & Ebony
Redondo Red Pearl & Ebony

Dynamic Package includes:

1) 6-speed close-ratio manual transmission with Limited Slip Differential
2) Brembo® 4-piston front brake calipers
3) High Performance Summer Tires (235/45 R17 W)
4) Large Diameter Stabilizer Bars
5) HandsFreeLink wireless telephone interface with steering wheel mounted controls

grri03 · December 2003

Those of you with and without the Navi on '04 TL - what do you think of it? I love gadgets and think it's cool but don't know if I can justify the cost given I would likely use it only 1-2 times per month. Have you found the voice recognition for the audio and climate useful????

mrtech · December 2003

I have a PDA and bought a GPS card and software for it. I use it in my car and on any car I use. It works great when I travel and rent a car. It is a lot cheaper than the over $2K you spend on the onboard. Of course the screen is smaller. Most PDA base GPS have voice prompting but no voice command.

dstr2 · December 2003

Have other than first Time Acura owners, Had there fuel tank and gauge recalibrated? I find it
to be useless to have a 17 gal tank that the guage
and trip computer indicate your out of fuel.
Other cars that I've owned had about 1.5 to 2 gal
when the light came on and owners manual stated
approx reserve. The Acura manual states nothing about Reserve.

dstr2 · December 2003

Has anyone had problems between driver1&2 detected
Dealer tried to tell me that my remote got reset by being in my pocket. Bought it the first time but not the 2nd and 3rd etc.

dulnev · December 2003

I've contemplated buying NAVI when I bought my 2000 TL. I didn't much regret not getting it.

I then contemplated getting one, when buying my 2003 TL-S. I didn't get it, but regretted my decision.

Then came the 2004 TL with the new super-cool the-most-awesome-gizmo NAVI ever. And I really didn't have a choice ;-). Yes, it's $2,000-$3,000 difference right now considering that NAVI versions sell at a smaller discount. But I don't look at it like that, I think it terms of a few extra dollars a month for having the BEST and the most entertaining gizzmo out there. I absolutelly love it; I know I would never keep the car for more than a year or two, if I decided to go cheap again and didn't get the NAVI.

There is a very good reason the NAVI versions of the car are in such tight demand: this is the best and very useful system to have.

As far as those PDA-based GPS systems go, you have GOT to be joking. I've used that crap and found it to be completelly unusable. You have to know in advance where you're going and load the map and route for that destination into the PDA. It is not the same type of system as in-car NAVI; the two only share one purpose: getting you to a pre-defined known-in-advance location. The in-car NAVI in the TL will serve to do so MUCH more:

1. Get you to any location you want to go on a whim.
2. Show you various alternative routes and let you choose on the fly which one you want.
3. Provide you highly precise spoken instructions that really do allow you to turn where you're supposed to, instead of 1/8 of a mile too early or late, as is common with pocket GPS.
4. Allow you to continue your route, even if the system temporarily looses GPS signal.
5. Reroute you automatically and smartly, if and when you get off your route. In my experience, following a pre-defined route is possible maybe 3 times out of 4.
6. Allow you to determine your position very precisely at any time and show you that position at a variety of levels of magnification.
7. Allow you to plot a route home from any point in the US just by saying "Go Home".
8. Almost the most important feature: allow you to quickly and easily find places of interest of almost any kind from post office and citi hall to sushi restaurant. This is a kind of feature that you will find yourself using much more frequently than once or twice a month.
9. Program several destinations for the day. Like if you were going furniture shopping, you wouldn't have to print out multiple chained sets of directions from Map Quest. And what if you make a mistake and print directions from home to store 4 instead of store 3 to store 4?

10-50 other useful things....

free7bird · December 2003

Was just wondering if the hands free link for your cell phones is a one way or two communication system? I know some of the speaker phone cells are only one way where only one person can talk at a time. Can you interrupt the other person when they are talking or must you wait for them to stop before they can hear you? I hope this makes since.
Thanks

marquis2 · December 2003

Just completed my negotiations for my TL Anthracite/Ebony with Navi. While I'll love the extra toys the Navi gives me, I just couldn't buy this car without it. To me, the dash looks horrible without it. The lame display they put into the non-navi's looks like a complete afterthought.

Just my $0.02

habitat1 · December 2003

You sound like a friend of mine who bought a 2000 BMW M5 and decided he "needed" to upgrade to a 2002 M5. The only difference in the two vehicles was an increase from 6" to 7" and a few more goodies in the navigation system.

I too would have rejected Navigation systems in the past but will likely go for one in the future. I was impressed with the Acura system on the 2004 MDX and assume the TL system is the same.

However, I won't kid myself. The TL/MDX are fine vehicles that should easily last 8-10 years and 150k+ miles. However, by about 2-3 years from now, the evolution of electronics will produce a 10" screen, a CD/DVD recorder that will allow you to "record" 200 of your favorite CD's into the car system, a wi-fi internet link and an automatic coffee maker.

Too bad you need to keep trading a perfectly fine $35k car (or in the case of my friend, a $75k car) to get the latest technology. It's not like I need to sell my house to get a new computer or TV. It would be my desire to see Acura, BMW and others come up with some way the Navigation unit was "plug and play" that allowed you to pull it out and replace it down the road.

P.S. Another friend is with a firm that is doing engineering consulting for Honda. The "in-house" cost to Honda of the Navigation system based upon 100,000 units annually?? Try under $600. Not a bad profit center.

monte4 · December 2003

Some people have to have the "latest and greatest" and be so far in debt its rediculous but appear to be ok. It reminds me of that commercial with that guy that shows all of his nice things and at the end he says I'm so far in debt its a funny commercial. Trading cars that often just isnt smart our industry loves guys like that!

vinceb81 · December 2003

After much debate, I decided to get the NAVI and do not regret it. I also did not like the dash with out the NAVI. Yes it cost more because dealers are discounting NON-NAVI cars a little more. But to me, it is worth the extra money.

automophile · December 2003

It is a 2-way link. The mic is in the overhead console, and there is DSP processing to remove ambient noise for clear audio, both directions.

The same mic is used for voice commands for the phone as well as the Navi.

montreallou · December 2003

JD Powers new report on Navi systems, rated the TSX as the best available. The TL was much lower on the list, but this is for the '03. My understanding is that the TL '04 shares the same Navis as the TSX, so it's got to be great...

94supra · December 2003

It is frustrating to know that even the best NAVI (which I think the TL has) will be out-of-date in about 3 years, but that is true of consumer electronics in general. The enigma is the need to bundle systems with very different life-cycles (car=10 years, NAVI=3 years). Unfortunately, event the best alternatives (Notebook PC with mapping software +portable GPS) are not near equivalents (though they do help with rental cars).

The idea of an upgradeable system could be workable for predictable upgrade paths (the approach doesnt work well for major discontinuous technology changes). This would include XM Radio based feeds to provide traffic updates to the NAVI. Honda has been providing a similar integrated capability in Japan for several years. The stumbling block in the US has been a workable radio feed that covers our vast country. Honda owns a piece of XM and they have been making R&D investments geared towards using the XM signals for the traffic updates. This is a predictable upgrade path. The details are yet to be resolved, but I think Honda will offer this type of feature for US markets with some type of radio link for real-time traffic flow based rerouting at some time in the next 3-5 years.

Other predictable upgrades include more powerful voice integration, heads-up displays and integration with our general-purpose computers (where we might integrate our schedules and planned trips with the NAVI capabilities). The BlueTooth interface for a phone is a beginning, but I really wish they had looked at the broader issue of interfaces and adopted a design enabling easy development and field installation of adapters for various interface technologies. (Does anyone know if this is possible/practical with the current design)? I am afraid that many manufactures of phones and other consumer devices will skip right over the current generation of BlueTooth and this may be an Achilles heel for the TL. Many of these capabilities could be contemplated in a plug and play type replacement unit dropping into a passive bus, but the car companies really want to use these advances to encourage new car sales. Thus, there is little incentive for them to spend money on building field upgradeable systems. Alpine (who builds most of the best NAVI units) might want to pursue this strategy themselves, but they are probably restricted by their agreements with the major automotive companies.

Industrial computer system designs tend to allow lots of field upgrades, but the market for general business and consumer type computers has become very different in the age of the microcomputer (PC). Field upgrades of CPUs are generally limited to computer nerds and passive backplane designs havent been emphasized (or very successful when tried). A working industrial computer solution may be kept in place for 10+ years (similar to a car). General business and consumer PCs are typically on a 3-year replacement cycle with field upgrades generally limited to storage, networking, software and peripherals. This approach has lead to somewhat more innovation, but the market also lends itself to sales pitches based on emotions rather than hard financial analysis. In any event, I would be happier if we could at-least get this type of upgrade capability for our automotive systems rather than being limited to software and database upgrades.

For today, we can only decide if the current generation of built-in NAVI is good enough to justify the 2.5K$ premium on the new TL. Personally, I am still struggling with the decision.

dulnev · December 2003

The term you're looking for is "full duplex", as opposed to "half duplex" which allows only one person to speak at a time, like in walkie-talkies.

I haven't tried the Aucra HandsFreeLink yet, but I'd be shocked to find out that it were half-duplex. Even cheap speakerphones these days are full duplex thanks to cheap digital technology. I haven't read any bad reports of sound quality, so one can safely assume it's full duplex.

nyshappy · December 2003

Was getting my 2002 3.2TL serviced for a recall today, and had asked the internet manager at this Long Island , NY dealer how far off MSRP they are now. She said they are doing anywhere from $500 to $1000 off MSRP.
I didnt push her on it, but dealers always start high, so I would probably start out in negotiations asking for $1500 off MSRP.

debating on Black/Black, Black/Parchment, or Anthracite/Black all with NAVI of course...

nyshappy · December 2003

I saw two TL's today at the dealer, one with the A-Spec, one without....they were pretty close to each other, so it was easy to compare visually speaking...
The front ground effects are obvious, but the sides are still not really ....

The side skirts look barely different on the A-Spec than the one without it. The cool thing
is the low profile tires, and the slightly different steering wheel.

I believe it also comes with the Brembo brakes.

Being in NY, I would probably shy away from the A Spec package, because the low profile tires would not be good for winter weather.
And I dont feel like buying a whole new set of tires for $800 just for winter...

However, I do like how the front looks with the ground effects...the back end has this gray plastic looking lower back, but yet doesnt look like it is any lower than the TL without the A-Spec...perhaps someone can clarify here..

I wonder if you can pick apart parts of the A-Spec package that I like, and buy it "a la carte" ?

marquis2 · December 2003

Of course you can buy the parts a la carte. The underside spoilers come in 3 separately ordable pieces: front, side and rear. MSRP for each piece is $329, $415 and $329, respectively (not including installation).

I'm getting the full set of spoilers on my new TL and am paying $1260 for it. This was the quoted "dealer cost", including installation. I beleive they originally asked for somewhere on the order of $1600 for it when I first started negotiations.

I don't know about the rest of the pieces that come with the a-spec package, but you can check on acura.com for prices.

baby_igor · December 2003

Dulnev:

I see you are clearly spun up on the NJ dealers. But I thought I read in a earlier thread that you bought here in DC. Am I mistaken?

dulnev · December 2003

I live in DC area, but I bought in NJ, because it was $1,000 in extra savings. Also, the sales staff I dealt with at Montclaire Acura in NJ was better than any I've dealt with in DC. And I've been to all DC area Acura dealerships! They're not bad, but not great like the people I dealt with at Montclaire.

automophile · December 2003

dulnev - You are correct - I misunderstood the question.

AND - Yes, half-duplex like a cheap speakerphone would be dissapointing. Since the TL unit is DSP based, I am sure it is full duplex. Reports on another TL forum state that that hands-free works very well with little noise heard by the caller.

Older Acura TLs

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles