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Older Acura TLs

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    msf2msf2 Member Posts: 88
    Enjoy your car when you get. Let me ask you-why so long? Is it demand for the Nav or availability where you live?
    I'm looking for the same car with parchment interior. Thanks!
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    automophileautomophile Member Posts: 780
    I ran this test on my last car, a Solara. As with the TL, premium is recommended, but the computer will let it run on regular without pinging by retarding the timing.

    1. The loss of power on regular was noticeable.
    2. There was also a significant decrease in gas mileage.

    When I ran the numbers, I found it was CHEAPER to run premium! i.e. - the gas cost 12% more, but cut mileage 15%. It is a no-loss situation to run premium!

    With the higher compression of the TL, the difference is sure to be even more.

    If you decide to try this for yourself, be sure to try at least 2-3 tanks of each at a time to allow the computer to fully accomodate.
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    aciampiaciampi Member Posts: 66
    What automophile is saying is what I have been led to be true. And obviously so because he has tried it. But I do not reccomend to anyone switching back and forth between grades of gasoline. Although the engines are manufactured extreamly well, and the computers do adjust, it is not good for the engine. From what I have been told from Acura dealers as well as others that by switching back and forth you can actually cause some form of permenant damage to the engine.

    If you still want to try it go right ahead this is just a word of caution. What I have posted and been told could be completly false but I rather pay a little extra up front for gas rather than paying a lot to repair an engine that may not be covered by warenty.
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    bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    How about for an engine that is designed to run on regular gas (eg. the V6 in the Accord)? Would switching back and forth hurt that type of engine? I actually heard that it helps to occasionally put in a tank or 2 of premium for an engine that runs on regular. Or that it is OK to use premium for situations that puts extra load on the engine, ie. towing, or extensive hill-climbing or high-speed driving.
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    mrtechmrtech Member Posts: 18
    Loading premium on cars with engines designed to run on regular gas is just a total waste of money. No performance gains just dollar drains.
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    habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Tried that in our Isuzu Trooper and it made no difference in gas mileage or performance (both suck). However, I am curious as to what differences exist between the Honda Pilot (rugular) and Acura MDX (premium). The engines (3.5 liter, 24 valve SOHC VTEC) & compression (10.0:1) are identical.
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    billyperksbillyperks Member Posts: 449
    I beg to differ.

    On my previous car (1999 Mazda Millennia) I used premium although the manual recommened regular.

    The difference was QUIET noticeable in terms of performance.

    I never went back to regular gas throghout my 36 month lease term.
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    njlawnjlaw Member Posts: 7
    Here's a link to a pretty good July 2003 USA Today article on the subject of regular vs. premium gas.

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-07-30-premiumgas_x.htm
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    r1_97r1_97 Member Posts: 181
    The reference in your post #6054 was informative. Nevertheless, I use 91 prem. in my E320 as I do notice a difference in performance. Maybe it's just my imagination. I use regular 87 in my wife Lexus rx330 and we do not notice a difference compared to 91. Go figure. ???
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    1hopeck1hopeck Member Posts: 41
    Thanks for the posting on Premium Gas article.
    This is the article I was refering to a couple post back. Where the Honda R/D engineer is quoted as saying ""I go back and forth, and I'm hard-pressed to notice" whether there's regular or premium in the tank, says Jeff Jetter, principal chemist at Honda Research and Development Americas. He drives an Acura designed for premium. "

    I would think after reading this one would be hard press to spend extra mony for something that only in ones mind you can tell the difference.

     But auto engineers generally agree that if you use regular in a premium engine, the power loss is so slight, most drivers can't tell.

    The difference is like peeing in the ocean.........never know the difference. Except in ones wallet........A few more tanks of gas...

    By the way the quotes came from http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-07-30-premiumgas_x.htm

    All copy rights reserved by USAToday and Copyright 2004 USA TODAY, a division of Gannett Co. Inc.
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    ewoqewoq Member Posts: 37
    It's clear using premium fuel gives no performance benefits to an engine designed for regular fuel, and only maximizes the performance of an engine designed for premium fuel. The question I have is: are there additives to premium (and perhaps multigrade fuel) which "help" the engine that regular fuel does not have?
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    mgagnonmgagnon Member Posts: 1
    Thanks very much for the information on the tire upgrade information. Would the same logic apply to upgrade the dynamic package to the LSV's or are the base tires of the same grade and quality.
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    igibanigiban Member Posts: 530
    Does the 'performance' refer to mainly horsepower/acceleration only.
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    kphkph Member Posts: 40
    A couple of reasons to take so long.

    1) Got a good deal from my closest dealer (bought my '95 Integra GS-R from them), and they don't have Red/Camel/AT/Navi on the lot, or coming in before the end of February. They were placing orders for March, and thus I could pick exactly what I wanted.

    2) It is winter hear in MineSNOWta -- snow means salt and slippery roads. While I would have *loved" the seat heaters tonight, coming back from the airport in my cold soaked Accord, I would be happiest if I could first use the new car without so much bad weather.

    3) I get a non-trivial 2003 company bonus in late February. I plan on paying cash, so timing after then would be prefered.

    4) Major project design review on 3/15 - I would prefer no distractions before then.

    So - the planets aligned by placing an order for a TL that will be build in March, and arrive in late March/Early April.

    Can't wait, but I will be patient....
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    kphkph Member Posts: 40
    I am assuming that when manufacturers quote a HP rating, it is at the minimum octane rating that they recommend in the manual. Thus, the TL is 270HP with 91 octane. Less Octane would mean less HP, more would imply more. I wonder what it is rated at with 93?

    Is the relationship linear? Do you get as much HP gain going from 91 to 93 as you lose going down to 89?
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    msf2msf2 Member Posts: 88
    Good for you. I know what you mean about the weather. I'll keep my 93 Accord for a Winter car as long for as it runs. I'll hit the dealers in a few weeks. Enjoy the car when it arrives.
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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Forget the power degradation - that may or may not be noticeable depending on how one drives. An earlier poster noted that because of the drop in fuel mileage it actually cost him less overall to use the mfr recommended premium than the (seemingly) cheaper regular.

    Use what the mfr recommends. Period.
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    kfhmailkfhmail Member Posts: 199
    Is it possible that ACURA is "catching" up with the demand of Navs?

    I was traveling through Birmingham AL on Monday (1/19 - from Montgomery to Huntsville) and they have at least 3 cars with Nav. (one gray and two white). A week ago they did not have any except for the demo car.

    I live in Huntsville and have not had a chance to check the local dealer (Jerry Damson) to see if they now have any Navs sitting on the lot.

    Is anyone else seeing a difference in the inventory on the lots? Is there an increase in the ones with the navigation system?

    Thanks.
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    achadhaachadha Member Posts: 106
    They just received 40 new tl's only 3 were with navigation and 1 of the 3 was that hard to sell Green Pearl color
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    iwseiwse Member Posts: 27
    More interesting reading including the "second opinions" section, though these professional reviews closely mirror the commentary on this and related TL threads...though no mention of comparison to the Lexus ES :-)

    Makes one wonder, however, why no professioanl reviews I've read (including Consumer Reports) seem to mention some of the complaints expressed here, such as poor quality tires, memory seat failure, etc.
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    bear64bear64 Member Posts: 17
    From the moment I drove my TL off of the lot a month ago, the car has pulled to right. After a couple of trips to the dealer where the alignment was checked, it was determined I had a "bad" front tire that was causing the problem.

    Since it was now a tire warranty issue, the Acura dealer washed his hands in it and sent me off to my local Firestone dealer for replacement. After spending a hour or so with the Firestone manager convincing him of my problem, they ordered me a new tire. Supposedly, the tires on the TL are so new, they are not in the Firestone dealer network.

    The new tire arrived a few days ago and was installed on Tuesday. Guess what, the car still pulls. The Acura dealer/Firestone dealer either have guessed the wrong tire was causing the problem or there are other issues. So it's back to Firestone for me today where they will swap the front tires to see if the pull goes to the opposite direction. If so, then the problem is with the other front tire not originally replaced.

    I'll see how this goes today and let you know th results.
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    patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    As iwse mentioned, Edmunds "Full Test" on the 04 TL was just published. You can get to it via the "Helpful Links" box on the left side of the page.

    Check it out!
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    95gt95gt Member Posts: 69
    Of course no reviewer has noticed these issues as they are all small owner problems. 99% of them would not show up with just a couple of days with the cars as the reviewers have.
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    95gt95gt Member Posts: 69
    Anyone notice the glaring error in the review about the Navigation system. Lexus does not allow you to use it while moving but acura most certainly does. That is one of the huge positives their navigation has going for it. Not being able to have passengers use it while on the move defeats a good deal of the benefits of having one in the car in the first place. If manufacturers don't want us fooling around with gadgets don't put them in the cars in the first place (radios/phones etc)
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    patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    95gt - use the "Help" link at the very bottom of this page to tell them that. Let us know what you hear from them.
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    raherraher Member Posts: 99
    The other thing the reviewers failed to mention on the NAV system was the option of voice command to alleviate their concerns about making inputs while driving. The voice commands can be sporty at times but I believe much of that is due to the users not using the correct command that is coded into the system. Unless you state your command exactly as it is coded the system will not respond correctly.
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    bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
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    raherraher Member Posts: 99
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    habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    I appreciated the article posted a few days ago.

    However, with 149,000 miles under my belt in a 1995 Maxima SE 5-speed, I have a few other observations. I have taken the opportunity to drive a full tankful of regular on a highway trip that we make 10-12 times a year. Doing my best to match trip speed (cruise set at 72 mph) weather conditions, temperature, etc., I have concluded that MPG using regular is approximately 6% less than premium (27.5 mpg vs. 29 mpg, on average). In most cases, the cost of premium where I buy (Exxon, Mobil, Amoco in the DC area) is only about 7-9% higher than regular (10-15 cents), such that the "net" savings would only be 1-3%, based upon my highway MPG. I suspect that in city driving, the mpg difference between regular and premium is less, but there is still likely some difference.

    My second observation is that on the few other occasions I have put regular gas in the car, the power difference under hard acceleration is definitely noticable in my 5-speed. It's almost as if a rev limiter starts to kick in at 5,500 rpm. With premium gas, the engine is smooth right up to its 6,500 rpm red line.

    Between those two factors, I would never consider skimping on regular fuel. Of course, I also have changed my oil every 4,000 miles, which has probably resulted in an extra 12-15 oil changes over 9+ years and 149,000 miles. But the engine still runs like new and a year ago was confirmed to be within a couple of percent of new car specs for compression.
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    mobofemobofe Member Posts: 51
    is the lousy turning radius of the TL endemic to the 'sporty' build of the car? Love all the driving characteristics of it but the wide turns it needs really has me chomping at the bit.
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    kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 237,185
    Front wheel drive coupled with wide low-profile tires. It is just the basic geometry of things. A small trade-off. I'd take the increased turning radius for the superior handling of low-profile tires.

    regards,
    kyfdx

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    mobofemobofe Member Posts: 51
    it's a minor trade off but in western MA where there are lots of long stretches of roads (i.e. route 9) where you gotta do u-turns to get to the other side, it b/c pretty damn sad that you gotta do a reverse, especially if there's a car parked on the other side.
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    raherraher Member Posts: 99
    It was the same on my 2000TL. I have a Dodge Durango SUV that will easily turn inside of the TL. It is a pain when you are trying to turn into parking spaces in lots where the lanes are narrow. It is a small annoyance however when weighed aagainst all of the things I really like about my new TL.
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    ptrekkerptrekker Member Posts: 51
    Why then, in my 4 cyl Honda Accord did I get 8-10% better gas mileage using Sunoco 94 premium fuel as opposed to using Sunoco 87?
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    igibanigiban Member Posts: 530
    During a recent test drive of TL I looked at the trip computer's numbers and saw no item of real time MPG; it has the Ave MPG. The salesman was not sure about it either. Can someone confirm if there's real time MPG on the trip computer for 04 TL?

    Also on my three miles test drive the Ave MPG is 6, which is kinda low. Is that normal (it's local but not in bad traffic)?
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    dulnevdulnev Member Posts: 652
    What can you possibly mean by "real time mpg"??? MPG is not spot measurement like speed, it's always measured over an elapsed time/spent gasoline. TL simply takes the amount of gas you burned since you reset the computer and divides it by the number of miles you drove since the reset. That's your MPG! There is no other possible kind of mpg that you can calculate.

    As far a 6 mpg on your test drive, that's normal. Whenever you just reset your trip computer, you will get these kinds of numbers for the first few miles, especially if you stand a lot or drive very slowly through driveways, etc.
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    1hopeck1hopeck Member Posts: 41
    I think what he is talking about is what is the MPG at any given time. and it is called instant MPG. And yes it can be calulated by speed and amount of throttle is being given at the time. I would the TL would at least provide this as cheap American made cars can do this.

    IMO... My 97 Buick Park Avenue does this and also overall Avg. Also the Buick has Heads Up Display which I think all vehicles should have. If you have ever used this HUD, one would understand the importance of keeping ones eye straight ahead on the road.
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    aciampiaciampi Member Posts: 66
    Recently in cold weather I have noticed problems starting my TL. Every so often I have to hold the key in for about 10-15 seconds before the vehicle starts, then for about 20-30 seconds the whole vehicle shakes. Now tonight it started right up but it immediatly started shaking with a vibrating noise coming from under the hood and wouldn't go away until I steped on the gas. It almost seemed that like one cylinder wasn't working. And combining all the problems I'm having with starting sounds like a fuel injection problem. Has anyone else expierenced the same problems? I'm going to call my dealer tomorrow morning about it but I am still curious if anyone else is having the same problem or even know any reason why it is happening if my thoughts are incorrect.
    Thanks
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    nyshappynyshappy Member Posts: 13
    I just read something interesting in the full review on this website...
    it says:

    "As a safety precaution, one can only operate the system when the car is stopped — a good idea generally, as we don't think a driver should be messing with a touchscreen keyboard while driving."

    First of all, can anyone verify if this is true on the new TL's??
    Now, I have a 2002 3.2TL, and i can use the nav while driving. Why would they mess with this and change it?
    Last thing I want, is to be lost in a bad area at night, and have to pull over and stop the car to enter a navigation address....that is pure stupidity!!!
    I can understand them not wanting to mess with it while driving, for safety reasons, but IT HAS VOICE ACTIVATION NOW!!!! HELLOOO?!?!?!?!
    the whole point of voice is to overcome the safety issues of manual input...so why would Acura not allow it to work?

    Hopefully, this report was wrong, and nav input works while driving. Otherwise, that is a major beef I would have with the car, and hope that Acura will change that shortly...

    anyone else agree??
    Marc
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    achadhaachadha Member Posts: 106
    anyone know where I can get good prices on a wing spoiler for my TL? Dealer charges way too much and installation from them is high as well. I was thinking of ordering it online and then having some mechanic or shop install it for me. Thanks
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    kahunahkahunah Member Posts: 448
    Please read post #5070 Review by 95gt.
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    igibanigiban Member Posts: 530
    Was confirmed by dealer that TL does not show instantaneous MPG. Too bad, but granted, Ave. MPG means more in the long run. That said, it'd nice to see how/where you drive relates to MPG right away. Most trip computers do that (Lexus included), I don't get it why TL advances way ahead on some areas and then stay behind on some easy ones...

    On Nav, I think all Honda/Acura's allow you to play with all NAV stuff while moving. Many others only allows limited features when moving for safety reasons.
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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    All you have to do to get "almost instant" mpg is reset it. I had this on an explorer and while it was fun to play with (how high can i get it coasting downhill?) it had absolutely no useful value. I think that's why it's not offered much anymore.
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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I have a Lincoln nav system made by Navtech I believe. I can do everything except enter or search for a new destination while the car is moving. You can select a previous or saved destination.
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    igibanigiban Member Posts: 530
    That's how Lexus works too. But all Honda/Acura's allows you to enter new address/destination right? That's the bulk of what's talked about here: be able to find a new place while driving. It's a trade off. For driver I think it's a good idea for safety reason, but what about when there's a passenger. I wish it all can be configured rather than one way for the other fixed.

    When you reset Ave MPG you still won't see any instant MPG as it will wait for 15 sec. and 'ave' out. I agree ave. is more useful but instant one does tell you how good or bad the MPG is in certain driving pattern or considtion. It's just SW?
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    igibanigiban Member Posts: 530
    I have a Lexus with ML and was trying the XM radio on TL during a test drive yesterday. I honestly don't really feel the sound is any richer, fuller or crispier than ML. I can feel the surround and some multi-channel effect, but the sound itself does not sound as 'studio-like' as ML. Maybe the the whole cabin is not as quiet as ES or the interior materials in ES are more 'sound-friendly'. Anyway it's good but I am expecting something better than ML and I don't think that's the case. It's certainly better than the base Lexus audio and most of other factory-installed ones. I also noticed that when you sit on the rear the sound seems to be limited from the rear speakers. It's like there's a wall in the middle blocking the front speakers'. Mmmm.
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    raherraher Member Posts: 99
    The TL audio when playing regular CD's or XM or just am/fm is as good as any sound system in any car out there. The difference is when you play DVD audio or hybrid SACD discs. The TL 5.1 system leaves them all behind at that point. It truly is surround sound. While there are a limited number of DVD discs out right now, I believe you will start seeing an increase as more manufacturers eventually follow Acura's lead. There are many more hybrid SACD's but they are not as good as DVD audio discs but are better than normal CD's in my opinion.
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    1hopeck1hopeck Member Posts: 41
    Are the seat backs of the 04 TL heated also? I would assume so as this seems to be the standard for the auto industry.
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    ewoqewoq Member Posts: 37
    I'm not aware that it is an industry standard to have heated rear seats. I know that Audi's and Infiniti G35s have them, likely as an option. Perhaps the top luxury cars may have them - S body Mercedes , Lexus LS, BMW 7 series, Audi A8, .....?
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    grri03grri03 Member Posts: 11
    Yes - the TL's driver's seat is heated both bottom and back. The passenger just the bottom because it has sensors for the passenger's position so as to adjust the airbag deployment scheme on that side. To preempt the question of why just on the passenger side: because that's where the most variable sized person would be and could be leaning down, etc. while the driver is expected to be sitting in a driving position and facing forward.
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