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Older Acura TLs

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    maldorfmaldorf Member Posts: 31
    Why would Honda recall the early 04s if there was not a problem? There have also been documented cases of these 04s breaking down.
        I realize this is an Acura TL owners forum, but do not overlook the fact that failures are happening in all of hondas lineup including the accord and odyessy.
         Honda knew there was a problem with this transmission as early as 2000 or so, and chose to do nothing until last year with the extended warranty ( offered only on certain years). It was not until this year that they finally recalled the transmission. Honda's solution early on was to just put in a rebuilt transmission with the same faults in it, and hence people were going through as many as 4 transmissions. This latest "fix" they have is just a cheap patch to keep it running unitl the warranty runs out.
      Here is an example taken from the petition link that I posted here a page back or so :petition #2686. saundra Morton I will have had 2 transmissions put in my accura . The Accura dealership and customer service are refusing to pay for this 2nd one and the recall for these transmissions was just received a month and a half ago. I think something should be done with the honda customer service and dealers since you cannot get any results when they are at fault with these faulty transmissions. 2001 accura 3.2 tl
        How would you feel if your transmission went out and Honda refused to take care of it? We all risk running into this sooner or later.
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    maldorfmaldorf Member Posts: 31
    Here is another example of Honda Engineering at its best:
    Recall #99V227000 - ACURA 3.5RL
    NHTSA Campaign Number: 99V227000
    Vehicle/Equipment Make: ACURA
    Vehicle/Equipment Model: 3.5RL
    Model Year, 9999 If Unknown Or N/A: 1999
    MFR Campaign Number: K68
    Component Description: POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
    Manufacturer's Involved In The Recall: AMERICAN HONDA MOTOR CO.
    Begin Date Of Manufacturing: 19980824
    End Date Of Manufacturing: 19990629
    Vehicle, Equipment Or Tire Report: V
    Potential Number Of Units Affected: 96518
    Date Owner Notified By MFR: 19990830
    Recall Initiator (MFG/OVSC/ODI): MFR
    Manufacturer Responsible For Recall: AMERICAN HONDA MOTOR CO.
    Date Report Received By ODI: 19990830
    Date Added To File: 19990830
    Regulation Part Number:
    Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard Number:
    Defect Summary: VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: PASSENGER VEHICLES. A TRANSMISSION CASE BOLT CAN LOOSEN AND FALL OUT ALLOWING THE TRANSMISSION TO DISENGAGE FROM THE DIFFERENTIAL.
    Consequence Summary: THE VEHICLE COULD LOSE POWER TO THE DRIVE WHEELS WITHOUT WARNING. ALSO, SHIFTING THE TRANSMISSION INTO THE PARK POSITION WOULD NOT LOCK THE WHEELS, AND A PARKED VEHICLE COULD MOVE UNEXPECTEDLY IF THE PARKING BRAKE IS NOT SET.
    Corrective Summary: DEALERS WILL INSTALL A REDESIGNED BOLT.
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    patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Maldorf, I think we get the point that you are unhappy with what has happened to you and your TL. If you'd like to give us updates as your case progresses, we'd like to hear them, but it's not necessary to keep posting your displeasure over and over. The folks here have heard you and I'm sure they offer you their sympathies, but it's time to let this conversation move on now.

     

    Hope everything works out for you.
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    igibanigiban Member Posts: 530
    Ditto to Pat.

     

    But Maldorf also mentioned "There have also been documented cases of these 04s breaking down."

     

    That's new to me. I hope Maldorf can provide some 'document' here to back that up, if nothing, at least for his/her own credibility.
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    golfnut5golfnut5 Member Posts: 202
    Is premium fuel required in the 2005 TL or just recommended?
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    bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    Recommended
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    eddiemaceddiemac Member Posts: 141
    I received a post card from Acura last week thanking me for being a loyal customer. It went on to say that as a show of appreciation, they would be sending me a gift card which I could use on service, parts, accessories, it was up to me. I received the card two days ago, and to my surprise, it was for $100! Has anyone else received a card, and if so, for how much?
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    maldorfmaldorf Member Posts: 31
    Well, the issue has been discussed more than enough I am sure. Later down the road when I hear from the lawyers I will give you a heads up as to what is going to happen. I stand nothing to gain in this suit, I was just asked to provide some testimony. I just wanted to help the legal team get their point accross. The 99 I had that broke down is long gone, turned it in after the lease was up. My main concern now is the resale value of my 03.

        It seems no matter how many people have their transmission break down, some people choose to not care as long as their car was manufactured after the transmission was "fixed".

    There really is not any point in me trying to find documentaion backing my claim about the 99. Fact is there was a problem, and continues to be one now for over 5 years.
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    habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    The debate about "can I get away with regular gas" has turned up in just about every forum I visit. A few of my oft repeated points.

     

    First: The distinction between "required" and "recommended" appears to be a dubious one at best. Some manufacturers use one term, others use another. I will double check my TL owners manual, but even if it says "recommended", I suspect they don't sell any cars where they then use the term "required". The reverse is probably true with BMW.

     

    Second: Is the idea of spending an extra 10-15 cents a gallon (5-7%) for premium in a $30k+ car with a 270 hp V-tech engine a hardship for anyone?? If so, buy a $20,000 car and have enough gas money left over for the rest of your life.

     

    Third: There is a substantial amount of anecdotal evidence that performance and gas mileage improves with a high tech engine designed to run on premium. Probably completely outweighing any apparant savings with cheaper gas. That was the case for my 1995 Maxima SE and I'm quite sure the 2004+ TL is at least as good at utilizing the higher octane gas to it's advantage.

     

    I jumped to a conclusion that the poster asking whether or not premium was required or recommended might be tempted to use regular if it was the latter. Go for it, if you chose. It's your car. Just don't lie when you go to sell it and someone smart enough to ask the question, does. I went so far as to keep gas receipts for my Honda S2000 and, sure enough, someone asked to see them.

     

    I'm all for prudence. Putting regular gas in a V-tech engine has a different definition in my book.
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    igibanigiban Member Posts: 530
    I am not saying there's no problem, esp. for those TL between 00 to 03. I just like you to show us the documented cases you mentoned about 04 TL 'breaking down'. Be specific. That'd be helpful in a court room too.
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    nkeennkeen Member Posts: 313
    Getting a little tired of all the talk of lawyers, class action suits, etc. It's these bottom feeders and the litigious "I'll sue" mind set that fuels them that brings us speed limiters on US market cars, placards all over sun visors and elsewhere, crash warnings in manuals that read as though they're aimed at 5 year olds, etc. Some years ago, these legal heroes, along with 60 Minutes sensationalist journalism, almost ruined Audi for the sake of an incompetent who didn't know which pedal operated the brake.
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    macdaddie0macdaddie0 Member Posts: 3
    Just read the manual today and it does say if premium is not used for a long term, it may damage the engine.
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    danny1878danny1878 Member Posts: 339
    Like I said before, I dont mind about the recall. But I will be, if they found something wrong but refusing to recall the vehicle. I hope every car manufacturer will do the same. I saw BMW did it, Chrysler, Mazda, Honda, Infiniti, Ford etc. did it.

     

    The RL that you mentioned above is 5 years old news, and its also Acura that inititated the recall. Even with the most troubled TL/CL (2000-2001), if we look at those numbers, the precentage of failure (PREVIOUS TL/CL 2000-2001) was less than 2% with 4 recalls. According USAtoday, Acura extended the warranty 7 yrs/100k miles for TL/CL 2000-2003?

     

    Actually I'm glad that you brought this matter up (I got spooked too but not anymore). So we can understand the situation better, there is nothing wrong with it. Btw you made me "shop" around to see used high mileage TL (it's fun), the oldest so far is 28k (with recalled tranny). I'm not planning to buy now but I will be when my 148k miles accord need to be replaced. I'm really interested with the NAVI-TL, since mine doesnt have one but my wife insisted that the replacement will be an SUV, BMW X5 or MDX probably.

     

    Your TL'03 is fine and you said that you had nothing to gain from this lawsuit, so....? Do you want us to gain nothing while there's nothing wrong with our TL'04? (I have had bad experiences with some lawyers, "I always win this kind of case and I believe we can win it" but later on "Good god, this is my first loss on this kind of case") Anyway you have my sympathy and I agree with Pat, let's move on from this old news. :)
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    highenderhighender Member Posts: 1,358
    I would agree...it is prudent to put the recommended gas 91 octane...because the antiknock properties will protect the valves and stuff...and it is what the ECU chip was designed for....

     

    according to the powerchip company....the ECU chip for fuel management was designed for a certain octane fuel. But the company sometimes detunes an engine, because there are always someone who puts lower grade gas in the tank...thus not only forgoing the higher hp available in highly tuned engines, but damages the engine in the process.

     

    the cayenne is tuned to 450 hp..using 91 octane..though for short distances 87 octane is OK....the computer adjusts for the lower grade....but it is not good. The existing ECU can be changed to give the car 487 hp using 91 octane, but the flexibility of the engine will be less...and 87 octane would damage the engine.

     

    If 94 octane were available, the powerchip company could put in an ECU that would give the car 500 hp...but then the engine would surely not survive on being fed 87 octane...

     

    the TL is close to a highly tuned engine. Giving it less octane will not make it break down in a few miles...but it would starve the engine....IMHO.
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    highenderhighender Member Posts: 1,358
    I think it is immportant for all of us here to have a feeling of pride of ownership , specially when it comes to cars. It is iconic that cars makes us feel good about ourselves....and we all want to drive what we like.

     

    That said....I also think it is important for the auto maker to back up thier vehicle with good service and solve problems with permanent fixes, instead of temporary or questionable patches.

     

    Specially if it were a safety issue....
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    golfnut5golfnut5 Member Posts: 202
    Thanks for info. I currently have a Cadillac CTS in which the owners manual recommends premium, but does not require it and specifically says 87 octane will not damage the engine. I have tried both premium and 87 octane in my CTS and can't tell the difference in performance. The extra cost is not an issue with me I was only curious. I will be trading my CTS next spring and seriously considering a TL.
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    habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    I shouldn't dump on GM, but the fact that the Cadillac doesnt "require" premium doesn't surprise me. According to Edmunds, the 2004 3.2 liter V6 in the CTS was only rated at 220 hp. That's less than a 3.0 liter BMW and a full 50 hp less than the same size 3.2 liter in the TL. Even the 2005 CTS with its optional 3.6 liter engine falls 15 hp short of the TL 3.2 liter's 270 hp.

     

    Honda/Acura have some of the best engine technology in reasonably affordable cars on the market. Even a Ferrari 360 doesn't quite match the 120 hp/liter output of the 2000-2003 S2000. The current TL, with 270 horspepower out of 3.2 liters is also at the top of its class in power output per liter.

     

    Following highender's logic, the CTS 3.2 liter engine is already "detuned" by 50 hp compared to the TL. So it also doesn't surprise me that you wouldn't notice any difference in performance with regular gas. It's not exactly a world class athlete to begin with, so a proper diet isn't going to make much of a difference. But the more the manufacturer pushes the technology envelope, the more likely a lower octane gas will result in adverse performance or worse. It is my understanding that confirmed use of lower octane gas in the BMW M3 (3.2 liter 333 hp) can be a basis for BMW invalidating the warranty (read that the computer chip actually monitors and stores such data as maximum sustained rpms, clutch useage, octane levels, etc.)
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    golfnut5golfnut5 Member Posts: 202
    Your comments on the TL are why I am seriously considering the purchase of one. The TL appears to be more refined than the CTS and a much better value.
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    tim_hooligantim_hooligan Member Posts: 143
    What about torque? Americans LOVE torque.
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    1hopeck1hopeck Member Posts: 41
    Its always true that high Oct. gas will result in higher HP. Its not rocket science. 3 ways a engine gets more HP. 1) more Air 2) More fuel 3) more displacement.

     

    The Accord V-6 ratings assume regular-grade fuel, and Honda will market it as a regular-fuel engine. But — pssst — it's good for another 10 hp and 10-plus lbs.-ft. on premium, acknowledges V-6 engineer Asaki.
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    sacdriversacdriver Member Posts: 33
    I am considering an '05 TL and notice that there are optional spoilers which can be added. If I add the deck lid spoiler plus the side underbody spoiler, front underbody spoiler, and the rear underbody spoiler I am looking at a very substantial increase in price. While I know aesthetics are a matter of judgement, would this car look "stupid" or out of balance if I just added the deck lid spoiler and the side underbody spoiler?
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    kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 237,185
    The decklid spoiler will look fine alone.. but, I would consider all of the underbody spoilers as one package.. I think it may look "out of balance" with only some of them installed..

     

    I think they are very pricy for what is basically a cosmetic improvement..

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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Actually more fuel will not yield more HP. An engine is basically an air pump - the fuel is merely a catalyst. Adding more fuel only makes it richer. Air is always the limiting factor, not fuel. If you move more air you need more fuel to keep the mixture correct, but it's the air that adds power not the fuel.

     

    And high Octane gas will not always increase HP. Premium gas actually burns with less energy than regular. But it allows you to advance the engine timing which normally yields more power. The advancement or retardation of the engine timing is what affects the power. The octane only affects the timing. Too low and the timing must be retarded to prevent knocking. Higher can allow the timing to be advanced if the engine is designed that way.
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    highenderhighender Member Posts: 1,358
    I agree with habitat....

     

    Honda engines are known for there technological superiority and and for squeezing hp while saving gas (relatively speaking)

     

    I think if one wants to put regular gas (87 octane) into the TL...then first go to powerchip company, and have them reprogram your chip and detune your engine to produce only 200 hp or so...then it will be OK for reg gas...

     

    good luck.
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    igibanigiban Member Posts: 530
    worth $200?

     

    One dealer has a $200 better quote than the other but only the latter is willing to do Michelin swapping 'free'. Is that really worth it (improved that much)?
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    bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    I honesty don't notice any difference between the Bridgestone EL42's on my TL, and the Michelins that I had on my CL-S, in terms of performance or ride quality. Both seem to have poor wet traction. The Michelin may last longer, based on my previous experiences with Michelins.
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    qwallsqwalls Member Posts: 406
    Well, I test drove a 2004 with the Bridgestones, and I ended up buying a 2005 with the Michelins. I know it isn't an apples to apples comparison, but based on my experience, I'd definitely go with the Michelins for $200 more.
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    sacdriversacdriver Member Posts: 33
    I have seen a number of messages concerning a vibration on 2004 TL's equipped with Bidgestones. Unless the same person posted multiple messages, I presume there was some sort of problem related to those tires on that car. Has anyone documented the same problem with the 2005's or are the recommendations for the Michelins based just on the problems reporgted with the 2004's?
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    igibanigiban Member Posts: 530
    The suspensions between 04 and 05 are about the same I believe, so any ride differences are mostly due to tires. What did you feel the differences between those? I actually test drove Non-Nav in 04 and 05 and honestly can't really feel that much wrong. It's not as smooth as ES but I just figured that's how TL is, being a more sporty car.

     

    Would you have bot 05 if it'd still come with Bridgestones? Or you wanted Nav anyway and they happened to get Michelins in 05?
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    habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    I assume that most of the "Bridgestone" comments are related to the "Tourenzas" that came standard on the 2004 non-HPT equiped TL's? (i.e. all automatics and 6-speeds without the option).

     

    For what it's worth, I have the 6-speed with HPT and Bridgestone "Potenzas". No complaints with 10,300 miles and they seem to be wearing reasonably well condsidering they are high performance tires.
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    revrasrevras Member Posts: 63
    I dont think the rough jiggly ride is from the tires.. the suspension is calibrated for a great hwy ride on smooth pavement. Over uneven pavement on city streets the car has the jitters and rolls, hops and jumps..to me tires can only do so much to mask this tendency of the car.
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    igibanigiban Member Posts: 530
    Come to think of it, all my test drives were on nice paved roads, w/o even speed bumps, the typical dealer's test drive routes. That EL-42 seemed ok. Rides are no worse than Accord at least I think. Not Lexus rides but it's more than tires for Lexus rides too I gather.
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    disappointed2disappointed2 Member Posts: 6
    I have a 2002 3.2TL with only 32,000 miles that has had a transmissions failure. This is my 3rd Acura, the previous 2 were great cars that went to well over 150K miles each. I'm pretty down about this now... I'd like to dump the TL and get a new TSX instead. Does the TSX have the same transmission problems? Does it use the same transmission as the TL?
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    danny1878danny1878 Member Posts: 339
    I cant agree more.

     

    Here are some list from NHTSA based on complaint about transmission related problem, mostly are from automatic transmission.

     

    BMW 2003

    325 12 earliest report on nov 2003

    330 1

     

    BMW 2004

    325 11 earliest report on nov2003

    330 7 earliest report on nov2003

     

    INFINITI G35

    2003 8 earliest report on apr 2003

    2004 4 earliest report on nov2003

     

    LEXUS ES

    2002 ES300 37 earliest report on jan 2002

    2003 ES330 17 earliest report on may 2003

    2004 ES330 31 earliest report on Nov 2003

     

    Acura TL

    2002 68 earliest report on april 2002

    2003 33 earliest report on june 2002

    2004 none so far

     

    Acura TSX

    2004 none so far

     

     
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    disappointed2disappointed2 Member Posts: 6
    Thanks for your help - I'm still suspicious that the TSX has the same 5 speed auto as the TL. (I'd get the 6 speed manual if it were strictly up to me, but my wife uses the car too). I'm really in a PO'd mood today about this. You have a nice car with a sticker price around $30K and the trans blows up at 32K miles.... not a good feeling! I wouldn't expect that on ANY new car, let alone a somewhat "premium" brand... jeez, maybe I'll trade it in on a Hyundai....
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    kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 237,185
    Did the transmission blow up? I mean, all they do is swap it out for a rebuilt one.. It is a simple repair... You still have just as good a car when they are done..

     

    Other than the hassle of an unscheduled repair, what is the big deal?

     

    regards,

    kyfdx

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    highenderhighender Member Posts: 1,358
    just brought my TL in for oil change and minor fixes...and they said there were no recalls on my 2004 TL , bought in July 2004.

     

    I noticed some brake steer...meaning that when I brake, the steering wheel would turn right , almost 90 deg...but the mechanic could not figure it out....so I am getting it back today...

     

    has any one else heard or had this brake steer problem ?
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    qwallsqwalls Member Posts: 406
    The bridgestones just seemed to have a harsher ride. In all fairness, I didn't check the air pressure before the test drive, so they could have been over inflated. I definitely wanted the navi, but I still would have bought the '05 with Bridgestones. I'm just glad I didn't have to.
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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Either the right side brakes are grabbing too hard or the left sides are not grabbing at all. May need a new caliper or there could be air in the line that just needs to be bled.
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    highenderhighender Member Posts: 1,358
    thanks...I kinda thought it might be just my car...

     

    will have them check it again....

     

    the service dept was excellent..they did a free oil change...free alignment,...fixed a few loose panels (that we knocked loose) and all were very nice.....
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    tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    Is that brake problem happening on all road surfaces or just the city streets? City streets are notorious for bad crowning. If you have high performance tires and/or brakes, that will only make it even more pronounced.

     

    If it is happening on all road surfaces, you may have a problem with the right front brake caliper. It may be binding. Does the car veer to the right when you take your foot off the accelerator? It could also be a bad wheel hub or bearing. Do you hear any odd mechanical noises eminating from the front end when you're driving? Any problems with steering?

     

    It's definitely not air in the brake lines. If that were the case, you'd have an extremely spongy brake pedal and virtually no brakes at all.
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    upndwnupndwn Member Posts: 44
    HELP

    OK, so I went in to try the TSX and now I lust the TL.

     

    I'm going to be OK because my business situation favors leasing.

     

    So, if I am going to stretch a little farther and ignore discounted leases on less attractive (to me) Audi A4s and Saab 9-3s, I sort of need to know how much I am going to being stretched.

     

    FUEL ECONOMY

    Reading posts, I know fuel economy is similar to these other choices. Premium fuel is required or strongly recommended even if the knock sensor would allow lower octane. 6 speed is geared so I would expect to have lower highway mileage than if I picked the auto, don't you think? I am inclined to pay that penalty with a smile. My wife's Passat wagon will do 30 mph at 60-65, 25 mph at 80. Where is the TL's chip programmed for fuel economy? Please tell me they know a TL driver can't be expected to stay at 65.

     

    SERVICE COSTS

    Saab and Audi include service for a time, at least 36,000 miles. What is the cost of Acura's routine service during that interval? On a ~45,000 mile lease the cost of the others is nominal, but I presume there is at least one expensive service, although no tune up as I understand it.

     

    INSURANCE RATES

    Last, what do insurance companies think of the TL? How is it rated and in your experiences how do rates compare for other cars in this price range. I am nearly 50, married, good boring history, despite my love of driving.

     

    Thanks for your help and support as I try to enter the family.

     
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    highenderhighender Member Posts: 1,358
    the veering to the right is happening on most flat road surfaces, even when I take the foot off the accelerator. No odd mechanical noises. No problems with steering, other than the fact it veers right . I have the 18 inch rims and Yokohamas on the vehicle...which does make little bumps more pronounced. I will drive it extensively to see if the alignment fixed it...or are the brakes binding...

     

    Thanks for your help and info...

     

    Happy Holidays to all....

     

    :-)
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    golfnut5golfnut5 Member Posts: 202
    I am considering the purchase of a 2005 TL and have never had a NAV system on any of my vehicles. Other than for navigation what are the benefits of a NAV system? I travel in my work and could use the NAV system, but don't see a huge benefit. Is it just an expensive toy?
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    qwallsqwalls Member Posts: 406
    It's great if you travel in unfamiliar areas, but the toy factor is definitely there, and the voice command that comes with it is also a nice feature.

    It allows you to control the stereo, navigation system, and heating and cooling by pressing a button on the steering column and giving a voice command.
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    sb55sb55 Member Posts: 616
    I drive my '05 TL with 6 speed about 110 miles per day, just commuting, and already have 5500 miles on it in 8 weeks. Each way is about 55 miles. About 40 miles mostly highway and the rest city (Queens, NY). I get about 25-26 mpg on the trip computer and checking it the old fashioned way. I go 70 to 80 mph on the highway part and do whatever I can on the rest. We also have an '01 3.2 TL which my wife and daughter now drive and it only gets around 21 mpg on the same route.

    The clutch on the '05 is very light, and the car is easy to drive and live with. the

    Nav is a useful toy. I used it to find an address in Brooklyn (Which is VERY easy to get lost in), and it did great. Beats the old Hagstrom map! Also, I love the XM.

    It's a great car. No problems at all yet. My 1st service minder came on yesterday and it will go in for 1st oil change on the 29th around 6500 miles. The dealer won't give a loaner for this service, even though I thought I was supposed to get one for any service. I won't make a deal of it since I'll be off then anyway, but...

    2021 Toyota Venza Limited Hybrid, 2022 Ram 2500 Laramie 6.4 Hemi, 2007 Mazda MX-5 Miata PRHT

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    habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    The TL 6-speed's 6th gear is very "tall", running around 2,800 rpms at 75mph (compared to 3,500 for my Nissan Maxima 5-speed and 4,000 for my former S2000). I have set the cruise control on highway trips at 72-75+ and averaged 28-29 mpg. The most I've gotten for a highway tankful is 30 at about 67 mph. There does not appear to be more than a 1-2 mpg "penalty" for driving at 80 vs. 65. In fact, anything below about 70 and you need to be in 5th gear to have decent passing power/torque.
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    habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    The TL 6-speed's 6th gear is very "tall", running around 2,800 rpms at 75mph (compared to 3,500 for my Nissan Maxima 5-speed and 4,000 for my former S2000). I have set the cruise control on highway trips at 72-75+ and averaged 28-29 mpg. The most I've gotten for a highway tankful is 30 at about 67 mph. There does not appear to be more than a 1-2 mpg "penalty" for driving at 80 vs. 65. In fact, anything below about 70 and you need to be in 5th gear to have decent passing power/torque.
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    upndwnupndwn Member Posts: 44
    Thank you for the fuel economy and other tips.

     

    Has anyone had the car long enough to estimate the service costs? Ideally, someone has put 45,000 on a 2004 and can tell me all the services needed and their costs, but it would help to know of any experience.

     

    The other issue was insurance. I know where you live is a huge factor, so the question is really more about how much it costs compared to other cars you have or had. I looked on line and it seems that the TL is above average on passenger injury, but below average in costs per collision and is a very attractive theft target. But, what does that mean in actual premium?

     

    Thanks. I am still really smitten. Is it wrong to keep taking the all too brief test drives?
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    armandarmand Member Posts: 178
    I have only 9K on my '04 TL and have had one service which cost me $25. In looking at the book the service requirement seem very moderate and the maintenance minder doesn't seem to ask for frequent service. My 1st service was asked for at about 6K and I currently show 40% left until the next.

     

    Love the car and have had no problem. I do wish it didn't ride so hard but even that is OK.
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