Older Acura TLs

kkftz · December 2004

One other quick question... any experience on negotiating spoilers w/dealers. Negotiating the overall price is pretty straight forward... negotiating putting spoilers on is a bit tricky, as there is installation fee's to consider (whose to know what's reasonable). In addition, does anyone know the mark up on spoilers... all I have the dealer fee's that do not include installation from the ACURA website, best I can do right now is estimate invoice cost of spoilers.

Thanks for all your help... what a GREAT website.

lmacmil · December 2004

One of the car mags said the TL is probably a better car with an auto trans due to torque steer with the manual.

jkgreer2 · December 2004

Good luck with your decision. I drove G35 manual, 4 door sedan(tacky interior, less power, rear wheel drive less effective in snow), and the Honda V-6, 6 speed, coupe (great car, less money, bought one for family).

I suggest the TL 6 speed, which I purchased also. Reasons were: Fun to drive, Brembo brakes (not offered on automatic), power, stiff suspension, great interior, and outstanding sound system. The front-wheel drive is better in snow, and the "torque steer" becomes an issue requiring attention during high speed cornering. Why be bored? Go with the 6 speed TL, or wait for 2006 TL, if all wheel drive is added (a rumor). Happy Holidays to all readers.

laurasdada · December 2004

Drove G35X and TL. No interest in the Caddy due to (IMHO) overdone, ugly exterior and poor interior design and materials. I'm leaning towards the TL over the G35x for (again, IMHO) superior interior and exterior style, smoother and quieter ride and less complexity (and better mpg) of FWD vs AWD. I've been a skier all my life and while AWD may be nice, I've never needed it.

I did like the handling of the G and the '05 interior is an improvement over prior years'. It also has a couple of features the TL doesn't, but if I do go new, probably TL.

In your opinion, does the CTS have any advantages over the G or TL (besides generous GM discounts, I'm sure!).

kkftz · December 2004

I too am leaning towards the TL... although the G35 is right there... it will all depend on what I can negotiate. The CTS surprisingly surpased my expectations... a friend told me to check it out, and the ride was much smoother. Because of RWD, no torque, and in the manual, it's quite responsive and hugs the road better than I would have expected. I completely agree, the look of the interior is not in the same league as the TL... I'm not a huge fan of the G35 interior either, this is one area the TL has a definite edge (IMHO). That said, the CTS is really not what I'm looking for.... the G35 and the TL are just a bit sportier, and more closely fit what I'm looking for.

Thanks for the feedback.

bodble2 · December 2004

The listed price on spoilers and other accessories include installation. The markup on all accessories are higher than the markup on the car itself. One Honda dealer that we deal with would routinely offer accessories at 15% off as part of the deal for buying the car. They must still be making a profit on the accessories even at 15% off. I would ask to look at their price list on the accessories and ask for 20% off, to start, and see what they say.

laurasdada · December 2004

OK, I'm pretty sure if I buy, I'm going with Abyss Blue which offers Camel or Quartz interior. Opinions?

I think Quartz as I'm not fond of the fake wood look of the Camel. I do like the color contrast with Camel though, it livens up the interior. But I have to look at 'em both again for a while.

Exterior-wise, Antracite is great but it seems every other TL is Antracite.

Happy Holidays!

habitat1 · December 2004

Torque steer is by no means confined to manual transmissions. In the case of the TL, the 6-speed may appear to have more torque steer because the driver may be electing to keep the rpms up by selecting a lower gear than the automatic would have. But that's also why the 6-speed outaccelerates the automatic.

I would be surprised to see any "enthusiast" oriented car magazine like Road and Track recommend an automatic over the manual. IMO, the 6-speed in the TL is the best ever made by Honda/Acura, except for the S2000 and NSX. It is a short throw, crisp shifting and easy to modulate. When I test drove it against the entire BMW line-up, it hung right in there with the very best, surpasing, IMO the slightly spongier feel of the 330i Perfromance 6-speed. And that's saying a lot, since no other European or Japanese manufacturer comes very close to BMW in manual transmissions.

It is slightly unfortunate that the TL's superlative transmission, solid sporty suspension and other engineering features are somewhat limited by a FWD set-up. But I would still take it over a G35 6-speed in a heartbeat.

bodble2 · December 2004

I don't know if Car & Driver outright "recommended" the auto over the 6-speed, but I think they did say words to effect that, for the TL, the auto is actually a better fit.

golfnut5 · December 2004

I recently traded my 2003 CTS (automatic) in for a 2005 TL (automatic). The TL's engine is quieter, smoother, more powerful and more refined than the CTS. The TL also gets better gas mileage and $7,000 less than a comparable equiped CTS. I can live with a little torque steer. I also had several reliability issues with my CTS.

habitat1 · December 2004

I must have missed that C&D evaluation, but it wouldn't have made any difference to me. Had I found the torque steer in the TL 6-speed objectionable in my test drives, I would likely have ended up with a 330i or, more likely, a 545i 6-speed and a $25k lighter bank account. I know I'm in the minority here - but the combination of the stiffer suspension, Brembo brakes and short throw 6 speed manual were just enough to get me to choose the TL over its European competition. But an automatic TL was never in the mix.

Also, since torque steer is a result of power to the front wheels and centrifical forces working against the direction of steering, I'm not sure what difference the type of transmission makes to it's severity? Other than automatic transmissions in general lose power and torque in the transmission itself and therefore have less avialable at the wheels to create torque steer?

kyfdx · December 2004

I think a couple of reasons..

1) Two hands on the wheel with an automatic..

2) Unless under full throttle, car will upshift more quickly to a higher gear..

regards,

kyfdx

bodble2 · December 2004

I think torque steer in manual tranny car is most noticeable in 1st (and to lesser degree 2nd) gear due to shorter gearing in the lower gear(s) compared to automatic. I don't think there would be any noticeable torque steer in the higher gears in either auto or manual.

The points brought up by kyfdx are also valid.

uglydog · December 2004

Ok, I've lurked here for months (and on the Infiniti forums) as I tried to decide on a new vehicle. Sorry for the long post in advance, hopefully someone will find the information useful. Early on, I pretty much narrowed my choices to the TL and the G35 based on performance, price, and quality. My last 2 cars were VW Jettas, great engines, but little things (interior, electrical system glitches, fit/finish) were driving me batty. Time to move it up a notch. After a ton of research and visits to the dealers, I settled on the TL (Anthracite/Ebony/non-navi). Note that I didn't pick the colors (more on that in a minute, and not important to me), but would settle for anything available but white. The nearest dealership was 120 miles out, with three more about 170 out in the opposite direction (I live in the desolate section of Washington State....think "no rain"). The Infiniti dealerships were about the same distance away. Thus, on a Saturday in early Dec, the weather was good, the roads were clear, so I made a run to Spokane to check out the cars. Not easy to do...those of you in Cali or the eastern seaboard have lots of choices...we don't. My first stop was the Infiniti dealer. The 2005 MTs aren't out yet, so I figured I'd check out an AT model and try to extrapolate (or an 04 MT). Well, all the 04 and 05 models they had left on the lot had a sunroof, and I did not fit in either (head hit the ceiling). This was disconcerting, as the G was my probably my first choice by a hair going in. I should note that I am 6-3, but tall from the waist up (31 in inseam), thus equivalent to someone about 6-7 when seated. I did make sure I had the seat all the way down. They couldn't help me in providing a non-sunroof car (or a non MT for that matter), as they had none and none planned to arrive anytime in the near future. They discussed calling me when one came in for service (no way from 120 miles away....so I figured I'd be heading to Seattle the next weekend). Thus, off to the Acura dealer. They had no TLs in stock in 6MT, or without a sunroof (these dealerships are probably tiny in comparison to those in large cities). However, I found that I fit comfortably in the sunroof version, with about 3 inches of headroom to spare. I also found the backseat legroom to be more than adequate (and better than in the G35 I sat in). The test drive convinced me that this was a great car....we got out in the country on a winding 2 lane road (as well as some interstate time) and I really liked the solid feel of the car. I wish I had a drive in the G35 to compare, but that obviously wasn't going to happen anytime soon. Remember also that I was driving the AT, and was going to purchase a 6MT no matter what. The car (drivability, standard options, fit/finish, looks) impressed me enough that I cut the deal that afternoon, to have a 6MT shipped to me later that week, even without driving the 6MT. There was some dealer searching to find one from the other regional dealers. I even called some of them later myself to see what they had, and it was very minimal...a few had nothing, or they were all navi. A 6MT non-navi was hard to find, even with no color specification! Finally, after a couple misses (I wanted one with less than 20 miles, and the first two found were 100+) they landed one from Portland to be trucked over.

I've had the car for 2 weeks now and here are my impressions (with alot of it tainted by my 10+ years of VW experience).

Pros: great interior, GREAT stereo, nice looking car (not too flashy/not too boring), lots of power, nice strong brakes (Brembos), lots of interior space, good sized trunk, overall solid feeling (compared to my VWs)

Cons: some vibration near 60MPH (not consistent, somewhat subtle but annoying...appears from these forums to be somewhat common) and this is after tire warm up (not flatspotting), the EL-42 tires are "not the best" (to be kind), car "wanders" more than I am used to...not pulling at all, but requires attention at HWY speeds on good straight roads (could be the tires), large C pillar limits visibility (I am one that always looks back, and doesn't rely solely on the mirrors), clutch is much less forgiving than I am used to in the VWs (and the shift pattern is way tighter too)...this is not a gripe as much as a thing I need to get used to, and of course, the torque steer, which is apparent on hard pullouts and accelerating though turns....it is not horrible, but there (I was used to the VW exaggerated understeer and body roll anyway). I knew the torque steer would be there, and noticed it some in the test drive. Not a huge concern, but something to keep in mind when pushing the car to its limits (which I do from time to time).

So far, I have to say that I am very happy with this car. I have a 20-25 min commute every morning, and I now look forward to it. Given some of the issues mentioned in the G35 forums, I feel that I will have less "issues" (maintenance) with the TL than I would have had with the G (which I really didn't fit into very well anyway). The main TL issue listed here that concerned me was the transmission problems, however, all those were with the AT, so I had no worries there. It's nice to be driving a much better car than I had.

aaargh · December 2004

Glad you like your new TL. I also narrowed my choice down to between the TL and G35. I chose the TL (5AT) because of the more 'luxury' feel. I thought the G35 felt cheap for a $35,000 car. Headroom in the back seat of the 4 door was a problem as well. The 2-door was rediculous as far as back seat headroom and accessibility.

Just a minor point, the TL doesn't come without a sunroof. It's standard equipment.

indydriver · December 2004

I am in exactly the same situation you have gone through, TL vs. G35 (also very interested in TSX). I will buy end of Feb, first of March. I've done all the research, read all the mag reviews, poured over the brochures, went to the auto show yesterday etc. Will start test driving this week, like you and many others, would prefer the 6MT but very concerned about C&D comments re: torque steer. Guess I'll have to find out for myself.

gold233790 · December 2004

I test drove the TL a few weeks back when helping my sister decide on her car. The torque steer was obvious when you knew to look for it, pulling out of the dealership onto a 4-lane road and coming out of some turns.

Quite frankly, it didn't bother me that much. I didn't feel it as a danger, because I never felt the car was out of my control. It almost added to the feeling of power in the car, if that makes any sense. Controlling the beast under the hood, if you will. I guess there could be situations where you wouldn't want it- such as slippery conditions, etc.- but wouldn't you naturally be more cautious in those spots and not end up eliciting the torque steer anyway due to the speed and nature at which you are travelling?

I don't know. It's there, but quite frankly it didn't stop me from recommending whole-heartedly the car to my sister. The only pause was whether she could get the car seat to fit in the back!

sacdriver · December 2004

I just bought an '05 TL in Anthracite Metallic. I want to put a polish on it but some products are for clearcoat finishes and others are for standard finishes. Does this car have a clearcoat finish?

kyfdx · December 2004

All modern cars have clearcoat finishes.. make sure you don't use any kind of abrasive that may damage it... that is what protects the paint!!

sandor · December 2004

i need some help! im thinking long time ago to buy the acura tl! please tell me this is the right car!

qwalls · December 2004

It's definitely the right car! Go for it.

aaargh · December 2004

Only you can decide if this is the right car.

Most people on this board are TL owners, so of course they will say the TL is the right car (including me).

In the end, do what we all did. Read the reviews, test drive the car, and the answer will become apparent.

nkeen · December 2004

I think that any very powerful front wheel drive car is going to have some degree of torque steer. It's a trade-off against the more direct steering but hopeless bad weather traction and poorer space utilization (need to accommodate driveline tunnel and rear diff.) of rear wheel drive.

Last winter I cruised past BMWs and Mercedes (both with traction control, etc.) that could not make it up a gradual snowy incline -- they were sliding sideways and backwards, traffic either side. I was driving our 2003 Malibu (front wheel drive, no traction control, no ABS, $13K after incentives). But I was surprised to see many rear wheel drive BMWs in the Montreal area during a visit last winter, so people evidently manage with good snow tires.

kkftz · December 2004

Folks, I am in the process of negotiating the TL 6 speed manual w/Navigation... one questions, if I am going to resell this vehicle after 3 years, are there any disadvantages to selling the manual vs. the automatic?? While I like manuals, just wanted to get some opinions on what the resale market is like.

Thanks!!

kyfdx · December 2004

If you are selling it yourself, you only have to find ONE buyer... So, probably not a big difference..

If you are going to trade it in... figure on a $1500-$2000 deduction for the manual..

bodble2 · December 2004

I think, for sure, you will find a manual tranny car, especially a 4-door family sedan, more difficult to sell.

indydriver · December 2004

All you have to do is visit a dealer's lot and judge the number of AT vs. MT's on the lot. That represents the dealer's perspective of his market. However, are you going to give up your preferred method of driving just because of potential resale issues? If you are a dedicated MT driver, you won't.

I know this has been visited many times in the past on this board, but I'd like some fresh opinions. I have been diligently looking for a 6MT TSX and its clear they are very rare in the Midwest. Order today from the factory and the dealers are quoting April delivery. Meanwhile, the dealer lots are flooded with Ohio-made TL's. I may possibly be forced to buy a TL. The AT vs. MT discussion becomes much more important in the TL due to its greater power and torque-steer. I am inclined to go auto if I end up in a TL. BUT....I have noted the passion of the TL MT guys plus you can't discount the throw-in of a very expensive Brembo brake system. I'd like to hear again from you TL owners who went through this purchase decision, ended up with the 6MT and believe your purchase decision was validated. I have test driven the auto TL. It is undoubtedly a fine automobile. After test driving both 4 cyl and 6 cyl Accords and Acuras, I am currently of the opinion that all 4 cyl Honda/Acuras handle much better than their 6 cyl brethren. I am inclined to go MT with a 4 cyl (TSX) and auto with a 6 (TL).

kyfdx · December 2004

Have you shopped Cincinnati?

indydriver · December 2004

No. Should I?

kyfdx · December 2004

Couldn't hurt to call...

Superior Acura in Fairfield, OH

Columbia Acura in Cincinnati, OH

Superior always seemed more aggressive on price, to me....

regards,

kyfdx

indydriver · December 2004

Thanks for the lead. I have a pretty extended buy horizon, no sooner than March 1, so I would much prefer to buy from a local dealer to develop the relationship etc. My local dealer is currently looking into an "air-trade" for my first choice MT TSX. They claim TL's are no problem on ordering lead time since they are made domestically.

igiban · December 2004

I think many states (like Cal) by law don't require affixing license plates on the front, although most cars still come with a front mounting block, and most owners still affix the plate, since state still sends two of them to each car owner.

I've come to notice though quite a few Acura TL and TSX on the road don't have that installed, while others do. I am wondering if this mounting block is installed by factory or by dealer, and/or you can un-mount it? Looks like some owners like to show that Acura name on the front bumper. Anyone knows what's the deal. You ask dealer not to mount it, or you undo it yourself?

Come to think of it, not many car mfgers carve its name on front bumpers.

indydriver · December 2004

Front plates are always mounted by the dealer. They are universally ugly. If you live in a state that does not require a front plate, make sure you insist the dealer not install the bracket. If you do, my condolences on your state required uglification of your brand new, expensive vehicle.

igiban · December 2004

I might have been wrong. CA does require it and so dealer will install it. Some owners choose look over law I guess, assuming that law is not CHP-sensitive. Well I guess I'd just think of that as part of 'pro pack'.

kyfdx · December 2004

In my experience, the front bracket is shipped with the car.. usually in the trunk..

Dealers in states where the front plate is required..like to install the bracket and put an advertising plate on it..

They do that sometimes in states where it isn't required (like KY), but usually just leave it in the trunk..

regards,

kyfdx

highender · December 2004

I think you are right...CA DOES require it...at least in several East Bay cities...

I got a ticket when I parked my boxster....and took it to another officer...who took one look at the car and said " those cars look better and were not designed to have front license plates !"..then he signed off the ticket as fixed.

I don't have front plates on any of my cars, including the TL...looks better that way...but will put one on if the cops crack down on them...

steevr · December 2004

I had a 4 year old 1990 Legend Sedan with a 5 speed that was mint. I had the hardest time selling it on my own because it was a manual. Everyone loved the car, but "oh, it's a manual?". I practically had to give the car away.

If you're leasing, it's a different story since they take the car back.

kkftz · December 2004

I've been visiting this board for about a month, and have found it to be very helpful. The manual vs. auto is a tough debate... My test drives included the Cadillac CTS, Lexus 300's, BMW 3's series to Audi 4's & 6's to G35 and the TL. In the end, I netted out on the TL manual... why... while the TL was not the #1 vehicle in any one area, when I looked at the over all picture of the things that we most important to me(price, interior design, exterior design, driveability, maintenence, gas mileage & dependability), the TL came out on top for me (IMO). The best advise I can give others is spend some time to really determine what is important to YOU... write it down, and do your own ranking against these criteria.... and DRIVE, DRIVE, DRIVE (I actually had fun test driving cars over the past two months). I'm pretty anal at research, and to be honest, it came down to the G35 & the TL for me(primarily due to price). I loved the ride of the BMW (especially the 330i), but I didn't like the interior space & price after adding options (significantly higher than TL & G35). I loved the interior design of Lexus, but was not impressed w/the driveablity (wasn't sporty enough for me). The g35 & TL's seemed to offer a nice combination of all of my factors, and in the end the TL was at the top of my list due to significantly stronger interior design (IMO...G35 actually edged out the TL on driveability... but not by a large enough margin based on my own weighting). In addition, I was also impressed by all of you TL owners on this board... most of you have had wonderful experiences w/Acura's, and that was also noted. While you've had some issues, if you want to have fun some day, go to the Cadillac CTS forum website and read their feedback... very high % of unhappy consumers.

As for manual vs. automatic... while torque steer is definitely noticeable when cornering & pulling out "aggressively"... I still went with manual, as it is just a completely different experience vs. automatic. For those who love manuals know what I mean... as for resale, well, I'll have to deal with that at some point, but between now & then, I'll enjoy the ride. Although it was funny, a few dealers commented that they are actually getting more folks coming in asking about manual's... it's still a auto market, but the manual market seems to be growing slightly after years of decline (especially in sedans... where soccer moms and dads are looking to spice it up a bit).

Thanks again to all the participants of this website, as it's been very helpful.

FYI... purchased TL, Anthrocite 6 speed w/Navi... ended up putting the spoiler package (front, side, rear and truck lid) for a bit of a different look on the road. After negotiating on and off the internet, was able to land at $400 - $600 over invoice (est. due to not knowing the exact spoiler inv. cost).

Best in the new year to all.

indydriver · December 2004

Thank you for the detailed report. I am about two months behind you, looking at the same vehicles and issues with a planned buy date of Mar 1. On the AT v. MT issue, I went back and read the archived topic and you join a universal chorus of TL 6MT owners who insist they've made the right choice even though acknowledging torque-steer and a touchy clutch.

igiban · December 2004

Ha, maybe yours is one of those I saw on the road that's no front plate. Did you take if off yourself as I think dealers in CA are supposed to put it on by law. I don't know if every CHP officer would sign yours off, but it seems like you got a CHP account setup for that matter anyway. To me it's not ugly enough to wait for CHP's opinions tho. Good luck, and be careful in tight parking. It's indeed a bit of shame to cover TL's front.

deekmd · January 2005

I bought the Blue/Quartz and it looks just fantastic! Since every single other TL I have seen on the road is Anthracite, I decided to look at another color, and I think the blue looks totally sharp.. i like the black also. The Quartz interior is key!

indydriver · January 2005

Visited my opposite-side-of-town dealer this week and test drove a TL. Every TL on his lot had a very noticeable circular cut on the right front bumper about one third the way in from the right edge. The circle was about 1.5 inches in diameter and it was obvious the bumper material had been cut through. I asked the salesman about it and he said it was a knockout plug to a tow bar. Never heard of such a thing. It looks terrible, you can see a black ring around the paint at the cut. Are they all like this?

phkck · January 2005

I actually got to use my the day before Thanksgiving when I put my TL in the ditch. Just popped to circle and screwed in the eye-bolt. Attached a tow strap and a truck was able to pull my TL free from the ditch. There really was not another place to attach a tow strap had it not been for the 'circle' on the bumper.

VW's have them on some of their cars.

Honestly, I don't even notice it 99% of the time.

indydriver · January 2005

Does the car come with the eyebolt?

Then does the plug reattach securely?

Hope you didn't hurt your new TL.

akirby · January 2005

That's called a ditch extraction hook and it's required in Europe.

laurasdada · January 2005

Ditto, deek. My neighbor has an '04 Anthracite. Couldn't have two in the 'hood! Of course, this N.E. winter is going to drive me insane trying to keep it clean and shiny! My Dad in Florida has White, so that ruled that color out, too. I also considered the emerald green, but blue matches my son and daughter's eyes...

Something about the Camel just didn't appeal to me. I think it was the "plood."

wisngamecock · January 2005

I agree, mine is black/quartz. I had reservations about buying black but had choice of black vs. anthracite in 6 sp on the lot. Chose black/quartz over antracite/ebony and glad I did. It's very sharp when it's clean... My dad has a 99 V6 accord with the same color scheme and it still looks good. Blue isn't a very popular car color, but I'm always drawn to that color. IMO, the TL is sharp in every color except that beige. It's just a good looking car.

igiban · January 2005

If you watch any parking lot and observe the color distribution of cars you'd find simple (less colorful) colors (black, white, gray, silver..) are just more popular than 'loud' (more colorful) colors (red, blue, green, yellow). TL is no exception. Most people are still a bit conservative/conventional in picking a color to cover all over their car.

Same thing may go for interior colors. Among the four color choices in TL, Camel is the only uncommon one. The first time I looked at it I felt it too strong and rich and too 'tropical.' Since I like the wood trim better (well I know they are not real, but neither are the carbon fiber ones) I was going for Parchment. But the more I go to dealers and look at some of the Camel ones the more I started to like it, esp. on louder colors like red and blue TL. Now I begin to view Parchment a bit too bland, which I used to like best actually.

laurasdada · January 2005

Actually, I'm beginning to see more blue (and variations) cars. Wife's car is white, my M was Platinum (silver/grey variation) and as igiban mentions, so are 75% of all cars out there! Time to be blue and get the trend rolling.

Be different! Be blue!

The Camel interior was (still is) just too much of a contrast for my tastes. Again, mostly the blond plood accents. To each...

tl05stdowner · January 2005

Maybe this topic is not as important.. but it comes standard.. so here goes. Was looking for a discussion on using a non-bluetooth phone in our TL that comes standard with bluetooth capability. Anyone cares to share his/her experiences?

I have VzW and have used Motorola V710 and it works just fine.. but want to know if anyone else has any experience with using non-bluetooth-ready cell phones. If so, what device is used and how is the voice quality? Thanks.

Older Acura TLs

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