Older Acura TLs

ljwalters1 · April 2005

To quote Edith Bunker, "OOOOOOHHHHHHHHH"!!!! :surprise:

matthewstl · April 2005

I leased the 6M in January. I live in North Carolina so we don't get much snow here. However, it does snow on occasion and summer and performance tires can not be driven in any type of snow. (I tried....) If you get these, make sure you also purchase a separate set of winter/snow tires.

I heard so many bad things about the Bridgestones Turanzas that came standard on Acura I bought new tires and put the Bridgestones in storage. I bought Michelin Pilot Sport A/S. This is an Ultra High Performance All Season tire which is designed to be driven like any other all season, BUT handles very, very well on drive pavement and in wet. They are not cheap, but I love them. Michelin claims these tires perform as well as any other all season they offer and provide excellent performance characteristics. I figure they will last most of my lease and if I have a few months to go I'll stick the Bridgestones back on them when I return to the Dealer.

I did take the car into the NC Mountains and did drive in snow, briefly. They handled fine. I grew up in North and lived in Midwest so I know how to drive in snow and know benefits of FWD.

Finally, someone once posted that us Southerners get the Bridgestones as the standard and the Northerners get the Michelin MXV. The Michelin's may perform better in the snow. I don't know.

Great car. I love it.

matthewstl · April 2005

Always good to wait if you can. Lot's of great new cars are coming out in the Fall.

If Acura is reading this....I think a number of us would love to see the AWD option added to this car. The FWD platform keeps this from being a "perfect" car. Most competitors offer this - BMW 3 Series, Audi A4, Infiniti G35 and the new Lexus IS. Car is slightly over powered for the FWD set up. Torque steer is a problem and the handling and is tiny notch below some competitors. I would be willing to pay a premium to get the SH-AWD which is on the RL.

However, new models are not likely to be available until September. If you can't wait. This is a great car, a lot of fun and the best value in the class.

hoyahenry · April 2005

Let's see, a front wheel drive vehicle with a manual transmission, outfitted with VSC, TCS and ABS. If this concerns you, buy the Explorer.

While I tried to unglue the 5A with sudden turns left and right and the yellow light VSC flashing on the Tach, it was the Jetta hatchback that did a 360 at 20mph in a right turn that reminded me that it's the other cars you need to worry about when driving the TL.

Caution: Stay back 500'...

...Boston Driver relocated to DC...

bodble2 · April 2005

I guess the Jetta owner didn't spring the extra bucks for the ESP!

bobt2 · April 2005

Considering an '05 TL and was wondering if anyone has experience with this situation?

Naturally, for the noncritical stuff, you plan for that and call well ahead. But will dealer have parts standing by? Or will diagnosis be required before parts are obtained? (Meaning the possiblity of multiple days sitting there?)

For the truly dead-in-the-water problems, dealer says (naturally) don't worry - car is reliable to begin with, and the roadside assistance will tow to the nearest dealer *and* deliver a loaner car to me.

Acura has a better situation than Audi or MB where scheduled maintenance is included - regular trips to the dealer are mandatory. Here, I can take it to a Honda dealer for oil changes etc.

Any experiences out there?

bodble2 · April 2005

I've experienced on several occasions with previous Acura and Honda models, where parts have to ordered it. But it usually only takes overnight, not several days.

jsyaruss · April 2005

Greetings all... thanks for another informative forum... I'm considering my next car purchase and waffling between several vehicles, like many on these boards.

Went to an Acura dealer the other day and saw the TL ... needless to say I was VERY impressed... Great interior space -- far more than some of the competitors I was looking at... nice packaging. (Didn't drive yet b/c I had my kids with me and it was one of those days...)

Anyway, one thing holding me back from really getting excited about the TL is the fact that it's FWD... All of the other cars I'm looking at are AWD or have that option (e.g., Volvo s40 or s60, BMW 330xi when the new one comes out, Audi A4Q, probably the 3.2, MB 240/280? 4Matic and Infiniti G35x). (I can't afford the RL ;-)

I scanned this forum and several others and got plenty of info about AWD/FWD/RWD in general... I'd love to hear specific experiences of TL owners about their cars' handling in poor weather... I also appreciated comments about the stock tires...I'm not one to go for winter tires necessarily (our crummy weather here in SW PA is not limited to winter ;-) so I'd love to know what the traction is like with the regular all-seasons...

So, thoughts? Thanks!

Scott

laurasdada · April 2005

Hello from New England, Scott:

LIved in N.E. all my life, skied (and driven in all kinds of ridiculous weather to get to the slopes. But always worth it!) the mountains of all N.E. states (save for R.I., not much to ski there...). I've always had FWD with all-seasons and gotten where I'm going with, knock wood, no incidents to report. I can probably count on less than two hands the number of times I wanted/needed AWD. Common sense and a little luck have probably helped too...!

Having said that, while I love my '05 TL non-nav, I must say thank goodness for the traction aids and ABS! The (and I and others have posted this before. Also check the reviews on tirerack.com) Bridgestone Turanza EL42 tires were NOT MADE FOR SNOW!!! For the first time ever I'm considering snows for next winter. I survived this winter (no ski trips in the TL this year) with the above mentioned snow-driving common sense, electronic aids and luck. I haven't noticed any problems (yet?) in plain wet weather. If you buy a Navi or 6 speed TL, I believe you get different tires which I would hope would be better than the EL42s. Unless they are summer performance tires, of course...

I, too, considered AWD (G35X, MB 4Matic) but I decided I just didn't want to carry around the extra weight and complexity of AWD 365 days/year. Of course, that's just my personal opinion. Nothing wrong with AWD and the advantages it offers.

Good luck, let us know which car you choose. Oh, yeah. If tires stink in the wet/snow, AWD/FWD/RWD won't matter much. If there's no traction anywhere, it doesn't matter how many wheels are being driven!

bodble2 · April 2005

Just like laurasdada, I've always gotten around in almost any condition with FWD and all-seasons. I got around OK this past winter with the stock Turanza. But due to the combination of high-powered engine, and wide, low-profile tires, I would proabably more confident if I had snow tires, or at least all-seasons rated higher for snow traction.

consult77 · April 2005

I'm interested in this question as well. My guess is that there will be only small changes and a small price increase. It would be nice if the CD Player would play MP3's. It seems like the time for more major changes would be 2007 - say a six-speed automatic.

Does anyone have any real information, not just the guesses I've given above?

xrunner2 · April 2005

My wife bought an 04 TL in late 03 and we purchased an extra set of alloy rims and winter snow tires in Nov 03. (Her car has been trouble-free so far.) The tires are Dunlops and they are 50 series instead of 45 series size that came with car. The 50 size allows for a narrower tread which reduces contact patch and improves winter performance. We matched the circumference of the 50 to the original 45.

We live in a snow-belt area and do get snow/ice from approx Thanksgiving to mid-March. The performance of these Dunlops has been excellent in snow/ice. The tires are also good in the dry. We have a long inclined driveway and never had a problem. The limiting factor on a couple of mornings was the depth of snow on driveway. It would have hung up the car with its short clearance, so did not attempt leaving the house till the driveway was plowed.

We have always put snow tires on all 4 wheels of our cars (FWD and RWD) over the years. If you live in a snow belt, the extra margin of control/safety is well worth the cost and hassle of storing/mounting 2 sets of wheels. I have been caught in mid Nov snow/ice with all-season, or worse yet summer tires, on the car and found the experience to be unerving. The extra traction provided by 4 snows could just be the margin of safety that will allow one to steer out of trouble and avoid a collision.

habitat1 · April 2005

In my opinion, the TL automatic can be equiped with very good all season tires that make it an acceptable vehicle for SW PA climates. I am originally form NW PA and travel there regularly to visit family.

However, if you are looking for something that is more than "acceptable", I recommend an MDX over an AWD sedan. The additional traction you can get from an AWD sedan is helpful, but still doesn't match the additional ground clearance and serious all season tires on an SUV.

I would also say that winter performance and summer performance are contradictory. I've driven the BMW 330xi and the added weight and lack of a serious "sport package" would keep me form ever owning one. Great vehicle, just not what I'd buy a BMW for.

rich48 · April 2005

I drive a 00 TL with 75000 miles. I recently hit a curb and damaged the lower passenger door to the tune of $600 to repair. This coupled with the 75000 mile service, the need for new tires, timing belt,. fuel pump etc lead me to believe that it may be time to pack it in for the new TL. Any thoughts? Is this the time to trade??

akirby · April 2005

Not from a strictly monetary perspective. The cost of the maintenance, including new tires, is still MUCH less than the cost of a new car.

If you want a new car anyway, then yes, now is probably the time to do it. But it's almost always going to be cheaper to fix an old car than it is to buy a new one.

jsyaruss · April 2005

thx much for your responses regarding the TL in bad weather -- you confirmed what I was thinking...that the more powerful engine is going to put some pressure on the tires to keep up and stay on the road. (my 200 HP Chrysler does just fine in the snow 95% of the time, but then again, it's not breaking any speed records ;-)... will investigate the tire swap as suggested here and on other boards. Thanks again!

ljwalters1 · April 2005

if you wait a little longer, you can get a 2004 coming off a two year lease. that might make more economic sense

ljwalters1 · April 2005

Hello fr sunny FLA. I've got an '04 TL 6sp w/ summer tires. handles great in the rain. the car definitely has torque steer when you try to start quickly off the line

tmac1 · April 2005

To ljwaters1:

Hey I have 05 6spd w high performance tire (Bridgestone Potenza) I am having some vibrations. Have you ever had the same problem? Does your car have the same tires? I think they told me mine were summer tires as well, they charged me more for that option! Need help to fix this problem!

Thanks

rodimusprime · April 2005

Question for the forum: I absolutely want ot see an AWD/Hybrid, etc. However, do you think they'll keep the 6MT in tact???

ljwalters1 · April 2005

I don't have that problem, and I do have the Potenzas. There's a forum on this site for Acura's with problems. I suggest poting there. I also assume you have the correct tire pressure - that can make a diff, I think.

habitat1 · April 2005

I also have a 6 speed w/ HPT (Potenza) tires. It's a 2004 w/14,800 miles. No vibration problems. tires were rotated at about 7,500 miles. Looks like 20-25k is the most they will last.

stlgasman · April 2005

What have people's experience with the Turanza EL42? I have 16,000 miles on my 04 TL and the tires are shot.

ronaries10 · April 2005

I am getting an extra set of alloy wheels for winter tires ....Can anyone tell me for sure if the 2004 TL wheel rims are the same size & style as the 2005 TL wheel rims?

thanks!

spfotey · April 2005

anybody compare this bmw 330?

matthewstl · April 2005

Are you asking for a comparison with the 2005 330i or the brand new 2006 330i? I'm not sure if the new 2006 is at the Dealer yet. I had a 2002 330i and can give feedback compared to my TL if you want.

bodble2 · April 2005

I'm interested in your comparison of the TL with the old 2002 330i.

matthewstl · April 2005

I've posted on this b/4 so I don't mean to sound redundant, but here goes.

I leased a 2002 330i with 5 spd, luxury and sport packages. Returned after lease was up and leased 6 spd TL with Turanza tires. Took the Turanza's off and replaced them with Michelin Pilot Sport A/S. This is important as I had the Pilot Sports A/S both cars. This is an Performance all season and not the same as a summer or performance tire. Still a lot better than the Turanza's and gives a better comparison.

BMW - Simply a great car to drive. Handles great, wonderful turning and very responsive. Can't say anything bad about this car. Does everything it intends to do and does it very well. In terms of pure driving - better than TL.

TL - Engine is as good if not better. Better transmission. I like the 6 spd and short throws better. Faster off the line. HOWEVER, it does have torque steer which diminishes driving experience. Doesn't feel as tight on the road or in making turns. A little more bounciness on regular driving. Great interior. Bigger than 330i, better seats, wonderful ergonomics. Stereo's are comparable. I like that TL has 6 cd in dash changer and love the XM. BMW maybe sounds a little better given it had 12 speakers.

Here's the kicker for me - TL is about $8000 less apples to apples where I live. For me, I love the TL and the $8000 in my pocket. I really feel the 330i is the "gold standard" in this class, but the TL makes a very compelling choice and one I'm very happy with. If price is no object, I'd say go with the BMW. For me, price is always a consideration and the TL is great. I really, really enjoy the car and there are some things I like better about it than the BMW.

In my mind, this exactly what Acura is shooting for. I think they are targeting what they do very well. Overall excellent cars at price points which make people consider them. Maybe not the "best" in the auto mags, but extremely close. Add in overall reliability and I think it is a winning idea. In news today, Honda reported extremely strong sales and excellent earnings. TL, RL and Oddessey lead this growth.

Playing hookey from work today so I may try to drive a new 2006 330i if local dealership has one. If I do, I'll post my thoughts. I'll need to do b/4 my tee time!!!

bob111 · April 2005

I drive 35k to 40k per year. My current maxima gets only about 22 mpg, although I like it in all other respects. I am thinking of replacing it soon, and want a car that is reliable, comfortable , fun to drive, has ample whistles and bells, and gets good gas mileage. The TL seems to meet the first four criteria nicely, but I am unclear about gas mileage. What can I expect on the highway (mostly interstates) and around town? Also, what octane gas do you use? Will a TL take 870ctane? I use 87 in my Maxima, and it works fine even though Premium is recommended. Thanks for your help.

aaargh · April 2005

The TL recommends Premium and it does need it. Besides, why pay $30K+ and skimp on the fuel? The performance is much diminished.

As for gas mileage, after break-in, I've been getting pretty solid 24-25 MPG in 80% Highway / 20% city driving.

When it's 100% highway (long trips), I get around 30.

100% city gets around 17-18.

A 50/50 mix gets about 21-22 or so.

consult77 · April 2005

I have driven both cars although I have only about 1% of the experience of the driver in post #7180. I agree with everything he says. For the same money and if long-term maintenance costs were the same I would take the BMW. I purchased a TL and here is why.

The BMW is significantly more expensive. This is true for the 2005 330i with the $4,200 dealer incentive and even more true for the 2006 without it. (+$10,000 for so for the cars as I would configure them.)

I don't drive at 100% of either car's capabilities so the advantages offered by the BMW don't often arise.

I live in Southern California and I see BMW's everywhere. I see two of them parked on the street before I drive 1/2 mile to the major cross street as I leave my house. They are both 325i non-sport models. (Caution opinion: what a person buys who wants to be seen driving a BMW but really doesn't have the money or appreciation to get a sport package or preferably a 330i sport.)

I have owned my current car, an Acura, for 14 years with excellent reliability and low maintenance costs. I have spoken with numerous BMW owners and almost all of them have complained about maintenance costs. (After the warrantee period.) I will own my new car for a long time and I just can't be worried about hitting multiple thousand dollar repairs. One woman I spoke with said that her husband noted that they never took their BMW for repairs with getting at least a $500 to $1,000 bill - this was for minor items. Looking at the Consumer Reports repair histories, it appears the the recent 3 Series has lots of problems once you get past 3 or 4 years. That would be painful for me. I also hate nagging problems.

If I were a person who leased or traded cars every 3 or 4 years and didn't mind the added cost of the BMW I would go for it. Since this is a long-term purchase and since the cost difference does matter, although I can afford either car, I've gone with the TL.

habitat1 · April 2005

On gas mileage: I have a 1995 Maxima SE 5-speed that I semi-retired to our second home. In 153,000 miles it had an overall average of 24.1 mpg, getting roughly 28 mpg on the highway and 21 mpg in the city. For similar kind of driving conditions, I am barely averaging 21 mpg with my 2004 TL 6-speed (14,600 miles). I get 28-30 mpg on the highway, but a dismal 15-17 in "mixed" driving around town. Even my Honda S2000, occassionally running up to a 9,000 rpm redline, managed 20+ mpg around town (and 30-32 on the highway).

So, in my opinion, the TL does not get high marks for in-town gas mileage, at least not the 6-speed version. I'm guessing that the nearly 3,500 lb curb weight and 270 horespower work against it. However, a friend with a 545i 6-speed (3,700 lbs and 325 horsepower V-8) gets about the same in town mileage as I do.

Re: 330i comparison. I think mathewstl makes excellent points and captures much of the essence of why I went with the TL over the 330i. However, with the new 2006 330i being larger and more powerful, I would seriously consider one if I were in the market today. The $10,000 price difference quoted by someone is well in excess of the actual difference I would pay. I can get any non-M BMW for about $1,200 to $1,500 over European Delivery invoice, whcih puts the final price at about $1,500 under the U.S. invoice for the 330i. That works out to about a $5,000 to $6,000 price difference, although it does require a trip to Germany.

bodble2 · April 2005

I think the TL, whether it is 6-sp or auto, is a real gas hog for pure in-town, stop and go, driving. I struggle to get 200 miles per tank (although I don't run it all the way to empty. I usually fill up after about 25 miles after the yellow light comes on). You're probably right about the weight and the 270hp being the main culprits.

consult77 · April 2005

Consumer Reports got 16 mpg city and 35 mpg highway with a 2004 auto TL. The city fits with your numbers. I would guess that CU drives a lot slower on the highway that we do here in Southern CA, so the 35 mpg highway seems optimistic.

I inherited a 1999 Buick LaSabre from my folks. It gets about 18 mpg city and 28-30 highway. Not very good when you consider the difference in performance to the TL,

European delivery seems like a great option if it works with your schedule. It would be great to drive the car around Europe. It would be great to drive at TL around Europe as well, but I suppose delivery would be a bit more expensive!

It is going to be interesting to see the experience owners of 2006 3 Series BMW's have with run flat tires (no spare, no regular tire option). I've seen reports that the tires cost $300 each, ride a bit rough and perhaps can't be repaired. If this is the case, hopefully the mileage on the tires will be good!

ljwalters1 · April 2005

I'm not thrilled with my mpg on my manual '04 TL, but all my driving is real stop-and-go short distance city driving. Regarding your not getting 200 mi out of a tank, that's 'couse you fill up right when the light goes on. My TL lights up & registers as empty even though I've got about 40 mi of road left.

ronaries10 · April 2005

hi. I'd be interested to know the size and model of the Dunlop snow tires (50s) which you purchased. I just ordered a set of 04 wheels for my 2005, and am planning to put on snow tires around November. Conditions here in midOhio are mostly slush and lite snow ... plus lots of ice... and an occasional heavy snow. By being prepared for the winter I'm almost assured it will be a mild winter ... I sold the family RAV4 because there was hardly any snow for 3 years ... and then the weather changed! Thanks for help.

jeffreylevin · April 2005

Bob,
I currently have a 2004 TL ~13k miles. Drive is mix averaging 50 miles/day, average 22 mpg. For highway mileage, average 29 mpg. As for octane, I have experimented with both. Used only BP, 89 and 92 octane. First 5 mths used strictly 92, same 22 mpg. Moved to 89, same 22 mpg. I did not notice any difference in performance. Great car to drive.

qwalls · April 2005

'04 and '05 stock rims are identical.

ronaries10 · April 2005

I ordered some take-offs from a TL 04 to put on my 2005 TL --- but it turns out that they are , I believe, from a 2005 RL instead. Apparently the offset is different ... and I haven't yet measured the specs ... but I was told the following: "17x8", 5 lug 4.5", 55 mm offset"

How compatible is this size with my 2005 TL? I haven't decided whether to return them, if I can.
Thanks,
Ronaries

qwalls · May 2005

Offset is too high. The TL rims are 17x8 with a 45mm offset.

aldwyn · May 2005

I am thinking of buying a TL. But I am curious as to what the car looks like with and without the additional underbody spoilers that the dealer can add on...

Does anyone have pics, or know of a link to pics of a 05 TL with and without all of the underbody spoilers? It's tough to judge from the pics on the Acura web page.

Thanks!
Aldwyn

fdcapt2 · May 2005

If you go to the Acura website, click on TL, and the picture you get is a stock TL. I don't think there were any pictures of a tricked -out TL on that site.

highender · May 2005

I have a A-spec TL...which has the dealer add on underbody spoilers....but just a small spoiler on the trunk, not the wing. I like the trunk smaller spoiler...

the underbody spoiler looks good, IMO....but definitely just a personal taste thing..... I think the TL looks good without the spoiler also.... the design is that good....

ronaries10 · May 2005

After some generous help from NTB tires in Columbus OH, I found that the 2005 Acura RL wheel is 5 x 120 bolt hole, and will not mount correctly on the 5 x 114.3 TL 2005. The RL wheel also has a different offset and lugnut than the TL.

Thanks all for help in this process. Back go the RL wheels to the supplier, BTI wheels of Salt Lake, which had misidentified the take-offs. NTB helped me avoid an expensive mistake by checking out the actual mount of the wheel.

ronaries10 · May 2005

I don't have a picture for you, but I looked at this issue earlier and my conclusions were: a) the deck lip spoiler looks best but is expensive for a minor improvement to looks, and complications will not be covered by warranty if not dealer installed; b) the car looks very good w/o the spoiler, and c) the trunk spoiler - conventional spoiler - does not improve the look of the car, but is nice if you are accustomed to the conventional spoiler. I have had spoilers on my last 2 cars and liked them, but chose to go without one on the TL - so far!
To each his own ... :-)

wannabgood1 · May 2005

Would appreciate comments here re how smooth the ride and for longer trips and somewhat older people like me who like cushier seats vs stiff ones, what have folks experienced? How do the seats feel after a one hour drive? How well does the TL do on rough roads? I drive an 01 TL which has nice seats, but ride is fairly rough. My take on a short test drive of the 05 TL is the ride might be even rougher or about same and seats feel a bit stiff. Opinions from owners who have driven it awhile?

manthony · May 2005

I'm also a "somewhat older" person (ok, mid-50's) and have had my TL for about 5 months now. Thus far, other than my normal commute and the occasional jaunt into town (about 45 minutes), I have taken the car on only one two-hour trip away from home. The seats are firm and the ride is stiff and I would never consider taking the TL on a long cross-country trip (we'd use the Audi A6 my wife drives). My wife says she finds the passenger seat also quite uncomfortable. I will say, however, the seats seem to be conforming to my body a little more as time goes on. It's either that or I'm just getting used to them and don't think about it much. Would I buy the car again? Probably not. But that's purely a reflection of my own personal taste in what's important to me. But I'm guessing I'm not the target buyer Acura had in mind for the TL in the first place. Bottom line (no pun intended), the TL has a lot going for it but you'll need to make up your own mind about what's really important to you. I'm starting to wonder that maybe we're older than we think.

armand · May 2005

Both my wife and I are 65+ and find the '04 TL fairly comfortable for long drives. We have done 2 trips of about 2000 miles round trip and have no major complaints. The passengers seat is low for my wife (4'11") and she uses a good seat cushion. I also own a BMW 325XIT and it is a little more comfortable. But the car does have a hard ride on bad roads. The TL's audio system - particularly the XM - have been a joy on long drives.

ljwalters1 · May 2005

I'm in my mid-30s, so I'm not your target audience, but I'll tell you that the ride is stiffer than you '01. I don't have actual knowledg of the previous TLs ride, but Acura specifically says they tightened the suspension. I also have the TL with the harshest ride available (MT, summer tires), so let me say that in stop-and-go, around-town trafic, it's great in that it handles very tightly, and the seats are comfortable (maybe a little understuffed, which makes it a bit softer as compared to VW and Audi which have firmer seats). For short trips, even a bumpy road is OK, though you do feel it. If your long drive is going to be on a major highway that's got a pretty good surface, I'd say you'd be fine. If a good portion of it is dirt, or poor pavement, even though the car will be very safe and fun b/c of the handling, it wouldn't be enjoyable.

If you're talking about a 1-hr commute to work, if the roads are good, you might like the stiffer ride - I think it's better for quick lane-changes, but if some roads are not well-made, pass on the TL.

laurasdada · May 2005

'05 TL, non-nav. I chose the TL over the G35X for, among other reasons, what I felt was a much smoother, quiter ride. I'm not sure why so many people feel the TL has a stiff ride, unless their prior rides were floaty domestics or Lexus? Maybe it's because I've always driven sports-oriented imports (well, at least 'till I bought my Chrysler 300M, great car). I do find the seats quite firm and a little more padding might be nice.

Had the disappearing temp settings issue again today but didn't notice until I realized cold air was filling the cabin. The climate control temp setting had reset to 65 from my setting of 74! Still cool here in New England...

Other than the elecrical gremlin, great car. Gotta Zaino it, I guess...

Older Acura TLs

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