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Comments
Here's the reason the Hybrid sales are low:
"Data from independent product-testing organization Consumer Reports indicates that hybrid cars get less than 60 percent of EPA estimates while navigating city streets."
http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,63413,00.html
Why bother to incur the not insubstantial cost and complexity for no real gains?
This is an absurd, emotional and unsupportable position.
The Chevy Impala SS with 303 hp and 323 ft.-lb. of torque and FWD is neither dangerous nor fraught with torque steer in any reasonable driving situation. If you are juvenile enough to try to drive it like a maniac or a race car driver at the track then you should not be attempting driving on public streets and highways in this manner anyway.
I rather think it is the manufacturers who already have it right and you who do not.
The Internet is great tool for consumers that gives us a large amount of information, but there still is not a perfect flow of information on the costs of dealers and I'm not sure there ever will be.
Beyond all that, $30K for a 2006 TL seems like a pretty sweet deal.
I was happy to find the exact car I wanted for a few hundred under invoice - but I know there will always be someone who gets a better deal / lower price. Hard to really tell sometimes - dealers do funny things with trade in values - or bump the interest rate on the loan a few points - or add in a bunch of fees - NOT that this is the case here - but you never see a post that says - GUESS WHAT the dealer gave me $3,000 less than KBB for my trade plus wrote the loan at only 19% with a $450 doc fee!
Out of context? I think not.
The fact is that hybrid cars presently available make no economic sense. Apart from placating a few environmental crackpots and zealots, they are a losing proposition.
http://www.omninerd.com/2005/11/11/articles/41
If they said the prius has a sticker of appromately 50mpg but real tests show it actually gets 35mpg but then again a standard corolla has a sticker of 40 but actually gets 30 MPG and a cadillac has a sticker of 20 but actually gets 10 - then there is some comparison information so that the "study" has some context. And I use the term "study" loosely as the article has very little info about their statistical sampling. Very little info is given on the number of vehicles tested, the controls used to validate the data etc.
And as if it isn't obvious enough already by simple observation, the "environmental crackpots and zealots" may be on to something with their stances on "clean air" and "lower carbon emission".
V6 23 MPG
4 24 MPG
Hybrid 25 MPG
Your interpretation is a classic case of missing the forest for the trees. The point is less the methodology of the study and whether it meets all the technical points of same than the fact that hybrid cars are being touted for their superior gas mileage, viz. economic advantage, when in reality that increase is more than negated by their high initial price, complexity, unknown resale value, difficulty in disposing of old batteries, cost and difficulty in installing new batteries, and on and on. It is a given than NO car hits its EPA mileage numbers.
http://www.autoblog.com/2005/10/02/do-hybrids-save-money
Oh, they're on to something alright: making your standard of living far lower by making your cost of living far higher. The question is less what they are on to than what they are on.
http://www.oism.org/pproject/s33p36.htm
http://www.sitewave.net/news/s49p1523.htm
Thanks.
why are we talking about accord hybrids on a tl forum?
Also for the 600 mile break-in period, should the car be driven on the interstate? At what speed? I'm already over driving like a grandma, but do not want to risk hurting the car.
Who is missing the forest. It is the fact that there is no study that makes this article useless. ...my barber's daughter's teacher said that he heard eating a piece of bread before each meal will double your weight - I should publish an article about this and refer to it as a study.
Again, I am not stating that I believe that hybrids reach their stated MPG, I am however stating that the article itself is useless as it has no basis of being a scientific study nor does it set the context by comparing vehicles with similar HP, torque, wind drag, and interior capacity but of different engines.
What I am concerned with is the number of people that assume that people who buy hybrids do so just to save money. I don't yell at my friends who want to buy sports cars - assuming they aren't bright enough to know about the difference in insurance. Could it just be slightly conceivable to any of the naysayers that some people might want to put just a tiny bit of effort into trying to reduce dependence on oil? As for disposing of batteries - read up, articles are now pointing to new lithium cell batteries that can be recycled and last the lifetime of the vehicle. I don't think anyone KNOWS the resale vehicle of a hybrid or a nonhybrid at this point. Lastly - as to touting superior mileage - if a 2500lb car with a 150 HP standard combustion engine in reality (not sticker MPG) gets 24 mpg gallon under the same conditions that a 2500lb 150hp hybrid car gets 29mpg then the hybrid car should tout a higher mpg. The number is not night and day but percentage wise it is worth getting excited about - try thinking longer term than 5 years - try thinking about the country as a whole and of 100 years of automobiles.
SACD's also known as dvd-audio, dvd-a, try online sites for tower records, barnes and noble, etc. There isn't a lot out there, seems like one of those things that started out looking good and is going to die a slow death. I've been able to pick up, Queen - night at the opera, a Robert Cray album, Santana - supernatural. Really not much.
Dave
But XM radio is a beautiful thing. For the price of one DVD audio you get a month of service. And after what - 2,3 plays of a CD you're over it anyway.
However, if you look at the TL instruction manual, all it says about break-in is no fast acceleration for the first 600 miles. It says absolutely nothing about not driving at a constant speed. So what gives?
You acting as if you are Mr.Know It All.
I own a 2003 TLS with 260hp going to the front wheels and I do encounter quiet a bit of torque steer when pulling away from a light or a dead stop.
Also in the snow, a FWD car with all that power is absolutely garbage.I cannnot make it up a thirty degree incline with my TLS boasting all seasons Michelin and now with the Falkens tires.
So adding forty more horses to the Acura is totally insane from MY point of view.I don't know what Chevy did and I dont care because I am not and never will be intrested in an Impala.
Say what you want but, I am sticking to what I said based on MY experience with MY TLS.
Now, on a twisty curvy road...different story.
Agree with ya about the torque steer issue but keep in mind- the new TL's as opposed to your 03 has a torque steer sensor which should minimize it from occurring.
And YOU are acting as if you can't bear to hear that there is a car that functions perfectly well with FWD without significant torque steer.
Drive what you want but don't puff up that there is an alternative to your TL with a better drive train.
If there is snow and ice on the road can't you just press the gas pedal down a little bit? Don't need to mash the gas pedal all the way to the floor.
Daisy
My '05 TL is not so good in the snow, but I'm 99% sure it's the tires. Starting in 2nd gear,judicious application of power, TC, ABS, snow driving skill(?!) and luck have gotten me where I'm going. Although getting out of my mildly steep driveway/road has been a major challenge a couple of times. Never was before the TL/Brigestone Turanzas...
Torque steer? Yes, but I'm aware of it so I try to be prepared and compensate. For me it's not a big deal as I enjoy the added snow traction (well, maybe when I get better tires...) and packaging advantages of FWD. And I just dig the TL!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
That would be an understatement! I would take my chances in the snow with the FWD, any day. :P
Torque steer from pulling away from a stoplight? My 06TL doesn't have that. Just the normal minor tug if I'm flooring it.
You're gonna pay a lot more for the RWD or AWD. $31K for a TL is why Acura sells a bunch of jthem ust as they are.
http://www.acuraahead.com/index.cfm
Enjoy..
-mike-
Ha Ha Ha.
Drive what you want but don't puff up that there is an alternative to your TL with a better drive train.
Prig- come on man, I thought you were more knowlegable than that.
How can you say that the Impala has a better drive train than the TL- (please let us not get into the a Impala TL debate).
I did not test drive the car but, the reviews that I have read (since you mentioned the SS) all said the engine was powerfull but the supension and the overall drive of the car needs to be refined.
If you haven't even test driven the car, your comments are unfounded.
I have driven both the TL and the SS. The SS has more power than the TL, a smoother drive with far less torque steer, a smoother transmission, has a dealership on every corner, is quieter, does not pull to the right or left, has no harmonic vibration, no rattles, the leather does not crack and the dash does not fade. Plus, the price is better.
What's not to like?
Don't knock it till you've tried it.
TL because the the TL is much, much prettier
than the Impala!!! A little bit of torque
steer is no big deal for me. Since I drive a
Maxima, I'm familiar with the torque steer
issue. If I'm in the mood to smoke someone
at the stoplight, I just grab that steering
wheel real tight and let 'em eat my dust!
Hee-Hee! :shades:
on the TL. I don't mind having a little less
hp's, as long as the car still has lots of
get up and go and still gets pretty decent
gas mileage.
wished for the split-fold rear seats on the
TL. I have them on my Maxima. I have one
60lb part-Chow and a Boston Terrier, and what
I do in the Max is I get a bed sheet and tuck
the ends behind the rear seat-back since I
can fold the seat forward slightly and close
it back and it holds the sheet in place. No
problems with the sheet slipping off.
I was trying to think on how to do this in
the TL. The only thing I could think of is
lifting the rear headrest, sliding the top of
the sheet over that and then pressing all the
way down on the headrest so that it holds the
sheet in place. I'm not sure if this would
work, but let me know if you find a better
alternative.
Laurasdada. I meant to reply to post #8617
(daisy9) in the above post.
Daisy
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Sedan...leather...dogs...Not a good mix! :sick:
options open as far as my next purchase or
lease. There's a couple of cross-over SUV's
I'm keeping an eye on because I wouldn't mind
having that extra flexibility, but for my
taste the pickings are a little slim. Right
now the only SUV's I like are the Lexus RX,
the new Mazda CX-7 and the Nissan Murano or
the Infiniti FX(not too good on gas mileage,
though) At least some of the new cross-over
SUV's get better mpg's than the traditional
SUV's. I like the MDX, but I think it might
be a little too much truck/car for me. I'm
still not sure about the new RDX. I really
like the interior, I'm just not too sure
about the exterior, particularly, the
rear-end styling.
the weekends! LOL! For instance, you get
the TL on weekdays and the Pathy on weekends
and hubby does vice-versa. Pathfinder is
a very reliable truck. I had a 1999 Pathy!
Great truck also.
Au contraire!
I have two 60+ pound dogs who ride in the back seat of my car with leather seats on a regular basis. They have never damaged the leather in any way and whatever mud or debris they leave behind wipes right up. Not so with cloth seats - anything they leave behind become permanent instantly.
Apparently there are reports of 300hp for '07, just what Exxon Mobil would love. Who needs it?
Think of it this way - 300 HP TL with a nice new 6 speed automatic - it could get better MPG.