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Comments
Maybe you should think this through a little - maybe ask yourself a few question.
How many $ did it take Acura to design, develop and build the current TL? . More than a couple hundred per car I am sure. Why would it take less to develop a new car to replace it?
How much of an investment did Lexus make in the IS?
What did BMW invest in the new 3 series?
Why do you think Acura could do it for pennies on the dollar compared to Lexus & BMW? Even though both of these companies are already producing RWD vehicles - and have a head start.
Lets be real - it can cost over 100 million just to develop a new transmission. You are talking about a whole new platform - RIGHT? Plus would need to be a better car than the FWD TL it would replace - on par with the IS & BMW. Not just a FWD platform that has a cobbled on drive shaft to convert it over to RWD. No point in doing that.
As far as the S200 - I really don't know much about it - but it is a small niche vehicle - and has very limited production. The TL is Acura's bread and butter vehicle - I think its biggest volume seller (in both $ and units). Your comparison is not valid.
Really? Since when? The 3 is the only car that sells better than the TL.
"A car like the s2000 IMO should cost $25k not $33k. Nothing IMO about the s2000 says $33k"
Consider the competition- Boxster and Z4 at the very least. Easily 20k more but you get better performance out of the S2000.
"You can go ahead and spend nearly $45k on a 335i with the same features you can get on the Bigger, cheaper, FAMILY oriented Tl."
The fact that you capitalize on "FAMILY" says it all. The TL is in a entry level luxury PERFORMANCE sedan category not the opposite. If you want a family sedan- get the Accord, Camry, Fusion, etc.
"A RWD Tl will increase weight too much. Yeah it would be better distributed but its will be slower."
Put 300 + hp into a RWD TL and I can only imagine what fun that kind of hp would be in a RWD Honda.
"Size and feature wise, doesnt the TL compete with the 5, s60/80, ES and GS?"
Volvo's and the Lexus ES are boulevard cruisers IMHO. The TL cannot compete w/ the 5er, GS, E, or M class. It doesn't have enough luxury or performance to compete with them. All of them RWD and all of them at the very least has "real" wood.
Trust me- I absolutely admire the TL for what it is especially at its price point. I just think if other companies have forward thinking why can't Acura w/ its TL?
Acura TL sells (in large part) because it is a bargain - compared to its direct competition. When I bought mine back in June it was a few thousand less than an IS250 - the TL is not in the same class as the 5 or GS - not even close - but its $12K+ less $ what do you expect.
If Acura tries to build a car that will go head to head with these cars (5/GS) the MSRP will also be about the same - Acura looses its advantage of using the Accord platform to lower the cost. It also will loose many of its customers - because if they are able to spend Lexus GS / or 5 Series $ they will buy a GS or 5. They will loose many customers who can't or don't want to spend $45+ for a car.
Give Acura executives some credit - they are pretty smart people - there is a reason they don't want to jump into this segment - because they know they will be completely destroyed - by Lexus and BMW.
Nothing against Acura or the TL - I own one - but it is what it is - a very nice Honda Accord.
z71bill: "Lets be real - it can cost over 100 million just to develop a new transmission."
How far up into whatever orafice did you have to reach to pull out that figure? If a new transmission cost $100 million, then a brand new completely unique 9,000 rpm engine must be about $1 billion and a completely unique chassis and suspension another, say $500 million, right? Not to mention every other unique component that goes into the S2000. If that were within a mile of "real", Honda would need to price the S2000 about the same as a Ferrari 430. I hope you don't have a job that requires any knowledge of or ability to do financial analysis or research. The estimates of total development costs for the S2000 that I have seen range from $70 to $100 million, which is a huge amount for a limited production car.
autoboy16: "A car like the s2000 IMO should cost $25k not $33k."
That makes the previous $100 million transmission comment look like it came from Einstein. I'll just attribute it to immaturity that you will hopefully you will grow out of when you go from autoboy to "automan". But I'm afraid, at least for now, you couldn't tell what makes a good quality ground up sports car if one ran over you. As ggseq pointed out, the S2000 competes effectively against SERIOUS SPORTS CARS that cost $40,000 to $60,000 - Z4, M coupe, Boxster, SLK350, etc. Want a parts sharing compromise, buy a grossly obese, uninspiring 350Z. But the S2000 was/is closer to the former NSX in engineering quality an innovation than ANYTHING else being produced by Honda or Acura. Period.
You are right about one thing, the TL is a nice family sedan. Which is why I bought one. And then supplemented it with a 911S. But I sure as hell know sport when I'm behind the wheel and you have to be pretty lame not to be able to tell the difference between RWD and FWD in that context. Or still be waiting to get your driver's license.
2nd I can tell the difference between FWD and RWD. My moms RWD miata and my FWD accord.
When I saw the s2000 should cost $25k not, 33k, I ment as in feature wise. Its a minimalist design and is missing many important features as a car that costs 3k. Still I give props to Honda on it. Its a great 8year old roadster.
I hate to bring it up but the less expensive miata offers a retractable hardtop, RWD, equal trunk space and the same fun to drive factor. Not as much power but more people space.
The miata is like a more civilized s2000 imo.An s2000 comparo
So I do admit the s2000 is a great car. I guess it is great for 34k.
-Cj
Take a look at this article (hope the link works) - then get the knife and fork out because you have some crow to eat. Let me know how it tastes.
Skip down about 1/2 a page - it is about a GM and Ford joint tranny development project, sure Acura could do better than GM & Ford - but not THAT much better, - this is a cut and paste directly from the article
"Had the auto makers developed transmissions independently, they would have incurred costs "in the hundreds of millions," says Tom Stephens, group vice president-GM Powertrain" It also says " Each auto maker will build the transmission in its own plants" Which of course means that the "hundreds of millions" is mostly development and engineering costs - not counting any cost to be incured actually producting the tranny. I was a CPA for many years (no longer active) - but recall HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS is more than a hundred million.
Like I said - don't know much about the S2000 - I'm sure its a nice car - but as a small volume vehicle they can do things that would be impossible on a higher volume car.
Some other minor issues:
Where would the RWD TL be produced? I am sure you know the TL is made on the same line as the Accord - side by side - because they share so many things. If the TL was built on a new platform it would need its own production line - plus the loss in volume on the Accord/TL line would increase the cost of the Accord. Just for fun consider reading this article about the new Toyota truck plant in San Antonio Texas - it can build 150,000 vehicles per year - which is more that the needs of the TL - but it cost $800,000,000. Please take note that for $800 million all they get is an ASSEMBLY plant - many of the major components will be built at other facilities.
http://www.siteselection.com/ssinsider/bbdeal/bd030210.htm
Its not my intention to make you look foolish (you seem to be able to do a great job of that on your own!)
Just stop and think about it before you post - you are so wrong on this I am starting to wonder if you are just trying to make a joke or something.
The S2000 cannot be used as a cost barometer. Honda likely loses money on every S2000 they sell, just like they do on the NSX and every hybrid. It is such a low-volume niche vehicle, which shares very little, if any, component with any other Honda model. It's only raison d'etre is engineering bragging rights.
Lets look at the IS350 options list - $200 buys
Headlamp Washers $100
All-Weather Floor Mats $99
Those guys over at Lexus must be incompetent fools - this is all you get for a couple hundred $ when Acura can develop a complete new car on a RWD platform for the same money.
Lets look at the BWM 3 series - WHAT no options for less than $350 (Park Distance Control)! But wait how much does BMW charge if you want to take a base 3 series sedan (that comes with a manual tranny) and all you want to do is add an automatic - that should cost about $1.95 - in the dream world of habitat1 - How can they charge (GULP) $1,275 for a 6-Speed STEPTRONIC Automatic Transmission. But its even more than you first think - because the base MSRP already includes the manual tranny - the $1,275 is just the additional amount OVER AND ABOVE the cost of the manual.
Ok so maybe not a perfect comparison of what $200 in MSRP will buy - but it is more than enough to prove (to anyone with $.02 worth of knowledge) that there is no way you can design - develop - build a completely new RWD car platform for a couple hundred $ increase in MSRP. Even a couple THOUSAND dollars would not cover the tab.
One more obvious point before I give habitat1 a chance to say he is sorry for being such a jerk - IMO Acura would spend MORE THAN $200 per car in MARKETING COSTS - just to advertise and promote the new RWD TL platform. Thats $200 MORE per car over and above the existing TL. So even if they could design -develop build it for $0 more than the existing TL - the MSRP would need to go up more than $200 just to cover the marketing cost.
Do me a favor then, un-boggle your mind and tell me what you think the the development costs of the new SH-AWD RL must have been compared to the old FWD one and how it is that Acura is not completely belly up by only selling a handful of RL's (at or below invoice) compared to boatloads of Accords and TL's.
Every car model goes through periodic redesigns and interim facelifts. The 2004 TL shares absolutely no major components from the 2003 model (including that $100+ million transmission). Yet the 2004's MSRP was nominally more than the outgoing (less powerful and competent) TL-S and included dozens of amenity and engineering upgrades. Granted, RWD may be beyond a mid model facelift, but certainly could be incorporated in the next generation TL with similar nominal cost/price impacts.
Running two production lines and platforms to produce both FWD and RWD versions of the TL is NOT cost effective and I never suggested doing that.
No, I might not like Lexus cars, but they are business geniuses for charging and getting top dollar for relatively low cost options. It's the Acura guys that must be incompetent fools by your definition. The were charging the same price (not even that $1.95) for an automatic TL as a 6-speed from 2004 through 2006. How are they ever going to make back those hundreds of millions of development dollars for that new 2004 automatic transmission? And now in 2007, they are making the same mistake with the TLS. Maybe you should run over there and given them a business lesson.
"IMO Acura would spend MORE THAN $200 per car in MARKETING COSTS - just to advertise and promote the new RWD TL platform."
So you have a degree in marketing as well as manufacturing/production? Last time I checked, Acura wasn't saving too much on marketing by sharing a FWD paltform with the Accord. I don't watch much network TV, but I don't recall any combined product ads that said, "buy the Accord if you are prudent, the TL if you are too dumb to realize that it's a gussied up Accord". No, the TL marketing budget would probably go down (or at least the price discounts would diminish) if it had a few more enthusiasts and car magazines giving it free PR as an improved performance enhanced ELLPS. It certainly enjoyed that status in 2004, but for 2008 or beyond, I believe it will continue to lose ground to better competitive RWD offerings if it wants to stick with FWD.
It continues to be sad to me that Lexus can profitably develop mostly unique models and Infiniti has managed to succeed with an entry level RWD G35 that is priced competitively with the TL but that many Acura proponents, such as yourself, think a unique RWD based TL is somehow beyond the production capabilities and/or financial feasibility of Acura. Fortunately, given my business success, I can comfortably afford a BMW, Porsche or other European altenrative. But I would like to see Acura live up to its potential and, at least for me, that does not mean the TL needs to be relegated to gussied up Accord status.
The TL is far mare than a "gussied up Accord", it has more hp, much stiffer suspension, a much nicer interior and a quiter ride etc. It is obvious to me that you have not driven both cars or you would never make such a statement.
Please put the shovel down! You are making a fool out of yourself. I am starting to feel sorry for you.
Acura charges $200 more just to put summer tires on the TL-S, $38,125 VS $38,325 - now think about this before you pick the shovel up - how would you compare the degree of difficulty and related cost increase required between producing a completely new platform VS replacing the all season tires with summer performance tires?
You really think its would be the same $200 difference?
Your example about Acura charging the same for a manual or auto tranny TL is a good one - thank you very much for helping to prove my point - really shows the $ advantage that Honda gets by combining the volume of the Accord and TL - the high volume Accord really helps lower the average cost per unit - and is a direct benefit for the TL (ability to offer the auto tranny as a no cost option).
Still, you must admit the TL did great for a FWD car! I hope they redo this test again "WHEN"
I guess since I've never driven or rode in any TL (or new acura except the RL I drove) I was comparing it to my accord. Then it hit me, I'm driving a 12year old design! 170hp is nowhere close to 258/286hp!
Still, the TL or TSX is going to be my next car when the time comes, FWD or RWD. In this case, or AWD :P
-Cj :shades:
I think honda has too many problems now.
They need a v8
They need diesels
They need a 2mode hybrid
They need a 6+ speed automatic
They need the RL to be bigger, better, and bolder than the TL
Then theres the wants
We want a RWD car
I want a hardtop convertible
We want heated/vented seats
We want diesels
We want 2 mode hybrids
We want a sportier car
We want reliability
We want [insert your comment here]
Shoot, replace habitat1 with honda and acura. They are the ones in the hole right now and 2 shovels instead of one. Wow, the hole just got that much deeper!
-Cj
I think Honda did a very good job when they transformed the Accord into a TL.
On one hand you could say they are the same cars - which is true for many major components.
On the other hand you could say they are different cars - they ride & handle differently - the TL has a higher level of performance - you can feel it when you step on the gas -
I drove both the EX Accord and the TL back to back - big difference - no doubt.
Honda managed to walk the fine line between sharing platforms to get a big cost savings yet having enough things different so that the cars are not the same.
Compare this to what GM did when they made the Chevy Cavalier into a Cadillac Cimmeron. An old - but still good example of a rebadge gone bad.
It all comes down to how you see it - many will look at the TL and say - why would I pay a big premium for a fancy Accord. Others will say - what a bargain - thousands less than what a Lexus or BMW will cost with the same features.
I guess I am someplace in between - I did not like the Accord - so the extra $ to get the TL was worth it - could not even find an IS to buy at any price - and ordering one - waiting several months and paying full MSRP did not seem worth it. Thousands more than the TL even for the IS 250.
I wish Honda would have found a way to use the Accord's windshield in the TL - rock chip turned into a big crack - a new windshield for the TL is $950 I would guess the Accord windshield would be around $500 - just goes to show that it sure does not take much of a change to add up to BIG changes in what things cost - course some think you can reinvent the wheel for a couple hundred $.
Well, I can tell you that if Acura continues to sell RL at the present rate, the RL will not be around long. But, in case you have not noticed, Honda/Acura is recouping much of that R & D costs over several high-volume models (MDX & RDX), and likely more models in the future (TL, Pilot?)
"Every car model goes through periodic redesigns and interim facelifts. The 2004 TL shares absolutely no major components from the 2003 model (including that $100+ million transmission)."
Somehow I think a redesign or facelift actually costs less than a complete switch from FWD to RWD, at least for a company like Honda, which has been predominantly FWD since the beginning of the ice age. Again, you seem to have lost track of the fact that when they do a redesign, much of that new design and components will find their way onto other high volume models. That's how they balance the books. Now, if Honda decides that they will change corporate direction and go RWD across the board, or at least for several models, then I can see them introducing RWD models at earthly prices. Not saying they would actually see actual money/profit in their pockets right away, but they can show a profit on paper. It is all accounting gymnastics. It has to do with how they amortize their costs as capital items rather than as current period expenditures. Same scenario for V8 engines. Why do you think Honda has been reluctant to introduce a V8? They can't justify it if it goes only into the RL. Now, if they decide they're going to go V8 for their trucks and SUV, or maybe the next NSX....
Does that help un-boggle things for you?
What does the "price" that Acura, Porsche or BMW charge for a tire upgrade matter to any of this discussion about the "cost" of moving the next generation TL to a RWD platform? Feeling a little bi-polar today?
This discussion is becoming circular and, I'm sure, boring to other nonparticipants. I'll leave my case as a simple one: (1) IMO, for the TL to be seriously competitive with the current crop of ELLPS, it needs to consider moving away from a FWD (Accord) platform and to its own RWD platform and (2) Doing so for the next generation TL would NOT significantly increase the total "cost" (or, necessarily, price) of the TL when all model change and engineering refinements are considered. If Infiniti could do a non-Nissan RWD platform with the G35, I have great faith that Acura could with the TL.
If you really want to see the base, automatic only, TL remain just as is, then that's your perogative. But don't expect it to be coo-ed over like the 6-speed was with weaker competition in 2004. Hopefully, it won't fall into the dismal depths that the previous generation TL had by 2003, but the competition isn't sitting on its hands, either. And the FWD TL-S isn't cutting it, according to my dealer.
Infiniti, Nissan...are they not the same company? :confuse: That RWD platform, and the associated R & D costs, are spread over several models.
No, just "bodble's" them a little.
Some SH-AWD technology costs from the RL are indeed being offset in the MDX and RDX. But the unique RL platform is still garnering a small fraction of sales that a RWD TL platform would. Also, SH-AWD, while the cats meow for some small segment of the automotive public, is quite a bit more expensive than the simpler, significantly lighter, less expensive RWD I am advocating for the TL. If anything, the excessivly heavy (4,080 lb) SH-AWD RL is now demanding a V8 to be performance competitive, whereas a (sub 3,500 lb) RWD TL would do just fine with the current crop of excellent Acura V6's.
As far as needing to go to all RWD platforms across the board, I'm not sure why you would conclude that to be necessary. I'm not advocating a ground up sport sedan with no other brand similarities like my former S2000. Just drive the rear wheels, ditch the torque steer and wheel hop and get 50/50 weight balance and much better handling to go along with all of the other great features of the TL. And regardless of what that costs, I'd pay significantly more for it in 6-speed form than I ever would for a slushbox only, softer brake and suspension equiped 2007 TL.
I'm going to do my best to take a break from this. It would greatly help my disposition if the weather improved, the snow would melt, and I could drop the top on my 911S for a spin.
I think its pretty obvious that it would cost hundreds of millions of dollars for Acura (or anyone) to design - develop - build - and market a new luxury sport sedan. Its also painfully obvious no matter what I say - or prove - you will not be willing to admit that you are wrong - so lets just leave it at than.
Maybe...probably. But that wasn't really my point. I still maintain that it would be financially difficult for Acura to just up and do a RWD for the TL alone, and price it a couple of hundred $$ over an existing FWD TL. Honda could do the SH-AWD because the costs are spread over 3 models and counting, already. That's why I think you'd likely see a SH-AWD TL before a RWD TL.
This isn't my debate, but I'll add my two cents for kicks. I happen to agree with those that believe RWD would be a substantial improvement in the driving characteristics for the TL and make it an even more attractive alternative to the G35 and 3-series.
I also believe that, while automotive engineering and development costs are not insignificant, the idea that redesigning the TL as a RWD from FWD car both requires the current model to be completely trashed and is a multi- hundred of millions or billion dollar undertaking is, well...incorrect, on both fronts.
Based upon my business and aerospace background, I was asked to sit on a advisory review board to one of Honda's latest ventures:
VLJ.
I'm not about to reveal any proprietary financial information, but from what I know about actual development and engineering costs several orders of magnitude more complex than what is being discussed here, I assure you that Acura could relatively easily switch the TL to a RWD platform for a fraction of what it would cost the Big Stupid Three's engineers to design a robot to take them to the bathroom.
The "could" does not appear to be the issue. It's the "should" that has Honda/Acura handicapped. I can again honestly tell you that they are as conservative a bunch as they come and don't see much potential for taking risks with a reasonably successful formula. Fortunately, their HondaJets team has a lot more intestinal fortitude for pushing the innovation envelope and I am confident they will become a leader in the VLJ industry.
And yes, I have an order in on my first Honda ever, with a top speed of nearly three times that of my 911 Turbo.
Apart from RWD, here are other big misses:
1. Turning Circle - too wide. Not fun cornering.
2. The front passenger seat is low - can not raise/adjust it. She hates it when the sun hits her 4-7 p.m, she's 5.6.
3. The shape/exterior looks, design - nothing worth a turn,(compare to BMW, G35, Mercedes, Caddie CTS.
The rest is excellent to very good. Few% hate interior vibration noises - some complaints there. :confuse:
2. Im not sure but isn't it 8 way adjustable? Cant you just raise the front, then the rear of the seat?
3. OMG, did you just dis what i think is THE MOST BEAUTIFUL SEDAN EVER MADE!! The exterior is such a classic design!! Its the only thing that is "different" yet good looking today. IMO, chevy looked at one when designing the new malibu.
I really don't care for the type-s (The bmw x3 turned me away from all sport suspensions!). About the looks, I love they way the headlights "squint" at you. Daring you to get in its path so it can switch lanes and blow by you. A guy did that today. He had to be doing at least 110!!
-Cj
But just the few parts it takes to build this one assembly will eat up most of the $200.
Can Acura build a RWD TL that is better that the current FWD TL (YES THEY COULD) but can the car also competes with the BMW / Lexus and still keep the cost within $200 of the current TL. I don't see how this is possible.
Getting better all the time...
-Cj
Yes, that is true...but...the key word is "relatively", in the sense that it is relatively easy compared to...designing an airplane! And no doubt the R & D costs would be much less than that of an airplane project. But the difficulty is producing a RWD platform only for 1 model(the TL), and pricing it competitively. I'm fairly certain the Hondajet project does not have the same pricing confines as the TL.
Dude- why do you persist on keeping up the name calling? It's starting to get irritating.
Even if Acura raised its MSRP 1k- I think the consumers would still find it to be competitive in the market.
2. I agree. Acura should allow the passenger seat to be raised or lowered.
3. Purely subjective. IMHO- The TL looks better than the BMW, G35, C class and CTS.
I'll take my Acura TL over a BMW or Mercedes that potentially could cost me tons of $$ out of warranty, a G35 that rattles as well and with shoddy brakes and CTS whose resale values are in the toilet. :surprise:
I agree 100%
And re: #3, the purely subjective topic of style: I believe this gen TL to be the first Acura (besides the NSX) with any sense of style since the original Legend Coupe. I find this TL to be a handsome and aggressive wedge design with some nice details from almost any angle. And more stylish than the mentioned competitors. While I have no qualms with the styling of the 3 (similar to the prior gen, just a bit more Bangled with a rear from an old Infiniti G20) G (handsome enough, but a bit sedate and looks too "tall and thin" to me. Prior gen, '07 is a nice evolutionary improvement), C (MB style of the day, handsome but looks a bit "compacted"). And the CTS: Ugh. I believe that they intentionally made the interior so unattractive and cheap looking to draw attention away from the overwrought, overdone, fussy exterior (with the front end of a truck!). Over the years, Caddy softened some of the mess (mostly front and rear end), but hey, it was a bold design and sold well. The '08, seen only in pix, looks to be quite the turnaround, I look forward to seeing one live and in person. Especially the interior.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Years ago I helped a friend change the engine and tranny in Mustang from a 6 banger with an auto tranny over to a V8 with a 4 speed manual - even though the parts were available - after all the Mustang could have been ordered from the factory with a V8 / 4 speed - it ended up being WAY more work and $ than he expected. It was sort of a domino effect - where one minor little thing required something else to be changed and then that required 2 more changes. This guy restored cars as a hobby (but was a lawyer not a hobbit!) and he was good at it - had a wall full of trophies from winning car shows. He was not just some knuckle head grease monkey.
I expect that converting a FWD car over to RWD would have some of the same issues - the engineers at Honda know this better than any of us - and would not get trapped in the - Oh CRAP the brake system - or HVAC - whatever - won't fit so it needs to be modified! My point is there would be many things we are not considering - and many things that may look like minor little issues - easy to solve - (to us) that would combine to make this project much more difficult than most here think. BTW More difficult means more $.
How far off is my HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of dollars guestimate?
Even using a nominal $500 per car for 100,000 cars per year for 5 years = $250,000,000.
Pick a more realistic value of $1,500 - $2,000 and - well you do the math.
with honda's sports4 concept rumored to be the next TSX with its VERY impressive aggressive looks, i hope acura makes the TL look even more aggressive and scare everyone off their feet like the Advanced Sedan Concept but without the weird, way too angular, sharp looks but more of a smooth-flowing (little less angular) but very aggressive look.
i would also love to see the SH-AWD which is 110% likely make into the TL like the redesigned 08 TSX and also offered in RWD to go against the BMW and a big V6 in it with around 306-320 hp. the interior could also be more elegant and futuristic because the current one seems to be aging and kinda has the some design cues of the current TSX.
Going about 35-40 in regular drive and then pushing hard on the accelerator there was about a 1/2 second hesitation as the engine rev-ed up before the transmission started pushing the car to accelerate. Is that normal and do people mind that?
And then I'm a manual shift lover but the fam wants automatic and surely there's more resale in that. So what do people think of the "manual" shifting of the automatic transmission? It didn't seem much like a real shift (gimmick land??) but when gotten used to, does it make the car more or less responsive and more or less economical?
Do people consider it a fairly quiet car?
-Cj
For which team, nick? 49ers, Giants? :P
The manual shift mode of the auto is fun to play with - when I am in the mood - but don't think it really increases performance - if it does its not by much. It is nice to be able to reach over and drop down a gear (or two) to pass slower traffic - but the tranny will do pretty much the same downshift if you just leave it in auto pilot and step down hard on the gas.
The one thing about manual mode I did not know until after I bought the car - that is a little strange -
When you start off from a dead stop - even when in manual mode - the tranny still automatically shifts from 1-2. There is no way to make the car stay in 1st gear - the shift from 1-2 IMO happens too fast - you should be able to "hold" it in 1st gear. I could understand if Acura would have programmed the car to still auto shift - even if you are in manual mode - before the engine hits red line - just in case the driver forgets to shift - or puts in in manual mode my mistake (something I have done a few times)