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Honda Accord vs Toyota Camry

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Comments

  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Sales, because there are 2-3 times the Toyota dealers in the U.S. vs Honda dealers.. Performance wise the Accord will outhandle, out accelerate, just plain out do a comparable Camry. I test drove one and can't see why they sell so well....
  • milindcmilindc Member Posts: 123
    Read posts 102 & 103. That guy has given very material difference between th two. Sales figures are VERY CLOSE. Camry is number one as it does a LOT of FLEET-SALES to Hertz/Avis etc. Accord fleet sales are very low. Honda has one statement in their anual report that Accord is the best selling vehicle to individual direct customer.
    They don't advertize that way as it would seem a 'negative' add.

    Sales figures of these two are very close to individual customer.

    I'm 6'1" with very long legs & do fit in properly in my Accord. best way is to test drive one....

    Thanks,
    ~Milind
  • wenyuewenyue Member Posts: 558
    Acutally, Honda doesn't advertise it because it would be false advertising. Honda no longer used the claim that Accord is the best selling vehicle to individual buyers. They use to, but last year Camry out sold Accord to the individual buyers, so Honda swiched the quote to "it remains one of the best" selling car to the individual buyers. You can see it in their most recent annual report.
    Camry sells about 8-12% to fleet. Accord about 4% to fleet. Last year, Camry outsold Accord by enough margin to offset the difference.

    Camry sells so well because it's very quiet and very soft. Accord sells on the virtue of it's semi-sportiness, Camry sells on the virtue of it's semi-luxuryness. They don't "plain out do" each other. Accord 4 cylinder would out accelerat the Camry 4. But then Camry V6 will out accelerate the Accord V6. Accord would out handle the Camry, but then Camry would out quiet the Accord. The reasons why they both sells well is because there are very large groups that prefer one of the two style of driving. It all comes down to the individual preference.
  • milindcmilindc Member Posts: 123
    that's what I was saying. The margin is too low.
    Only in 1999 Camry sold more to individual buyers.
    (98 Accord was more)

    Also Accord V6 would out accelerate Camry V6.
    Wenyue you should check figures.
    I have Road/Track comparision which gave max 1st Accord 2nd. Accord was 7.7 0-60 Camry was 7.9
    (Even Lexus ES300 is tested for 8.0 flat)

    Accord V6 are sold in MUCH more number than the Camrys. Accord V6 are very high in demand.

    Now a days I have subscription to R/T, Motortrend Car/Driver, Consumer Report !! :)
  • milindcmilindc Member Posts: 123
    between these two car lies the personal-preferrence but there are some material figures in which current Accord has an edge over camry.
    I don't see ANY advantage of Camry over accord than quite/floaty ride.

    I don't think any car in this price segment is as quite as Camry is....
  • wenyuewenyue Member Posts: 558
    Appearantly we have conflicting data.

    http://www.theautochannel.com/content/vehicles/new/reviews/1999/gap9850.html

    Accord V6, 0-60 = 8.0 seconds.

    http://www.theautochannel.com/content/vehicles/new/reviews/1998/russ9817.html

    Camry V6, 0-60 = 7.8 seconds.

    As for your opinion that you don't see there is ANY advantage over the Accord, well that's your opinion. I respect that, but that's not shared by the buyers. There is a reason why Camry has the most loyal owners among the midsize segment. Every one should understand what the others prefer. I prefer the Camry, you prefer the Accord. Good for us both.
  • milindcmilindc Member Posts: 123
    Edmunds lists 7.9 for Accord.
    & 8.0 for Camry !! What would you say ??

    Different test-conditions, Different Testers may affect the result but most of the time I have seen better numbers for Accord & not Camry.

    Wenyue: Honestly don't u agree that making a lot of fleet sales is hurting Camry's resale ?

    Rental companys auction out one year old Camrys/Corollas. It's unfaire to consumers.

    Accord n'joys better resale just bcos of that.
    I said that Camry doesn't have any advantage than Accord than quite & floaty ride it's bcos:

    - Accord is better value.
    - Better Iterior layout, Room.
    - Faster/Frequent shiftingng Xmission vs Smooth/less frquent shifting of Camry (Both are equally reialble)
    - Better Suspension (Double Wishbone Fully Independent)
    - Better Highway ride/passing power
    - Better Engine (more HP/Torque) 2.3 with VTEC for 4 Cyl
    - Better Resale

    Camry's advantage is Quite Smooth ride, Smooth Xmission which is achieved by making it slow shifting.

    There are some more advantage to Consumers for choosing Accord over Camry.
    Toyota is VERy big co than Honda with very good resources, they can produce as much Camrys as they want. i.e to sale it to both rental/consumers etc. It's easy for them to keep it no: 1 by giving rebates/interest rates etc.
    They have priced it more so as to give room for negotiations so that the buyer thinks that he is getting very good deal. Honda on the other hand can't produce enough V6 Accords, also TLs & Oddesseys. 3 month wait for Oddessey & very tight demand for 3.2TL (going for MSRP for almost 2 years now).
    US capacity is 340K Accords, they have to import remaining 70K accords from Japan(mine is built in Japan).

    Resale is more of function of demand. Accords are less in number in used car market than any other make (excluding Luxury). that's the reason I have seen many of my short-perios-in-usa friends have got 89/90 Accord with 120K miles for more than 4000...!!! Which seems rediculous.

    This situation i.e less resources with Honda to produce more cars is helping buyers indirectly.

    I know if they start making too many Accords & start saling it to rental, it will affect it's resale too.

    Intellichoice gave 5 year old Accord 63% value of MSRP. Camry 54%. Also Accord costs less over 5 years to maintain than Camry.

    Accords command high resale bcos people want them.
    They are not going to settle for anything else.

    Mercedese-Benz representative once acclaimed that Honda is other make which has as good as brand-loyalty/Equity as ours.

    Again, Camry or Accord ==> It's personal preferrence but say if a person (hypothetical case) like them both the SAME, there is no reason why he should get Camry over Accord (ofcourse it's different story if he needs quiter, calmer, smoother ride)

    What do u think Wenyue ?

    I think I am mot being unreasonable....
    ~Milind
  • black_tulipblack_tulip Member Posts: 435
    Wenyue is right, as usual :)
    We bought the Camry because
    we frequently drive long distances(~600 miles
    a day) and in a Camry we come out as fresh as
    we went in, thanks to the soft ride and library
    like quiet interior. It ,however, lacks any
    sporty character, which is I think by design.
    That is why when we want to have some fun, we take the A4, but for long trips, the Camry is
    always the choice.
  • milindcmilindc Member Posts: 123
    U r stretching figures by saying 3.3 & 1.3.
    The difference is more than that & used car market is 3 times the new car market.

    I don't buy these figures(3.3 & 449).
    Toyota has started fleet sales from 97 (when Camry became "EPA Midsize" before 97 it wasn't. So the resale hasn't yet completly affected. Toyota is more profitable than hOnda..that's what I was saying, by selling more car they are more profitable which honda can't match...but it's CONSUMER whos getting indirect advantage. Honda can't match the demand when it comes to V6...& still it's outselling Camry V6...!!
    Ford Explorer is much more profitable to Ford than any other vehicle on the Earth, that doesn't help it's cause.

    "Accord Xmission shifts too hard ??????????"
    U r wrong Wenyue, I own accord so my friends & it shifts very smooth. But it shifts frequently or more often than Camry...The difference is very small or non-existent.

    How about VISIBILITY ?? Which I forgot in last mail ?? Accord has a very expansive wind-shield & much better visibility than Camry.

    "Whos Fault is that Honda can't produce more cars not Toyota's" ===> Wenyue are u speaking for Toyota company or Toyota Consumers ?? Speak for Consumers. Honda also can keep it no 1 if they want to do...but that would be unnecessary. Accord/Camry n'joy vast customer loyalty so it would require some special effort to make it no 1 as Toyota is doing with Camry:(Fleet/Rebates/Financing) Also u can't overlook the fact that there are more Toyota dealers than Honda(almost double ??)

    One thing I want to clear Wenyue who said the Accord is noisy ?? Better to say that "Camry is quiter". Camry is comparatively quiter than Accord ? That doesn't mean that Accord is noisy.
    Also accord supension is much better than the Camrys which is wallowy & toooo soft. It's steering is rediculously light & vague. (I drive a lot of new camrys thanks to Hertz)
    Accord steering is much better than Camrys. Do u mean to say vague & light steering & boatlike ride is better than 'lightly' stiff ride which inspires confidence & predictability to driver ?

    What about iterior layout ? Wehnyue if u like Camrys soft rise/ultra smooth xmission doesnot mean that u need to defend every aspect of the Camry. Accord's interior is more modern & well laid out than Camry's. (Camry is very well ergonomically that's not the point)

    Chassis: Honda's global midsize platform which was first used in 98 Accord is better than 97 Camry in terms of rigidity, stiffness.

    Wenyue u do agree that
    1)Resale is better for Accord
    2)There shouldn't be any problem accepting about 4Cyl engine. Better power, Better highway passing.
    3)Visibility Drive an Accord to know about it.
    It has prob'ly the BEST visibility in it's class or may be in any class. (Odyssey has HUGE visibilty)
    4)Value Accord is better value.
    5)Better Suspension setup
    6)Better Steering response/feedback

    Camrys Advantage
    1)Quiter ride
    2)slightly smoother Xmmision
    Did I miss something in this section ??

    Wenyue : KBB which dealers use & which are direct figures from market says:
    $12,645 For Trade In Accord LX with ABS
    $12,450 Without ABS

    $11,620 For Camry LE with ABS
    (Both Good Condition)
    (98 LE Didn't have std Keyless/Power seats it seems: I will confirm from edmunds though)

    Wenyue: I think I did everything right on KBB to get these figures. See the difference, LE which costs more in the beginning is worth much less.

    NADA which is other source has very close figures as KBB. (KBB is actual market values & which dealers use)

    What do u guys think ??
    I agree with Personal Preferrences & there are many consumers who chose Accord/Camry without any consideration to the quiter ride etc just bcos they had one previsouly & wanted new one.

    Not every Accord owner gets Accord for stiff/sporty etc ride..it's equally comfortable as camry is for family of five.

    Now every Camry owner gets Camry because it's quiter/Smoother/boatlike. So the crowd isn't exactly divided into half i.e 50-50....it's in between.

    Again I repeat my question: What other reason Camry has over Accord than quiter/smoother ride ??

    Thanks,
    ~Milind
  • milindcmilindc Member Posts: 123
    "But you are not the majority. Majority are buying the car for family use. Camry has excllent resale as well (only $449 difference), and you DO need a quiet ride, as well as a soft ride, as well as a smooth transmission. Than Camry is clearly the better choice."

    Replace it with quiter & smoother....
    Accord/Camry are not toys so u choose quiter one.
    Accord is also very quite & smooth as Camry just a 'little' lesser.
  • liufeiliufei Member Posts: 201
    This has been discussed over and over again. Both car has their strong point and cater at different market. The one you buy is the one that suit your need the best, either that, or a compromise of other factor.
  • milindcmilindc Member Posts: 123
    But what I am giving are some material facts just not some personal opinions. If Accord was not there, I would have got Camry. It's bcos of the previously mentioned 1) facts & 2) Personal Preferrence I got the Accord.

    I just wanted to demonstarte the #1 hype & how much waitage it carries (to be #1 selling)
    Ford Taurus was #1 selling for 6 years in a row => What about that ?

    When comparing Accord Vs Camry I tried to keep personal preferrence away & come up with some hard-core facts which tell me that 'current' accord is a better buy than Camry. Again personal Preferrence of more quite & Smooth ride may divert buyer to camry.

    Thanks,
    ~Milind
  • wenyuewenyue Member Posts: 558
    We are going around in circles. So this is my last post. People choose Camry for their own reason. Why don't you ask them? They can probably give you a million different reasons.

    As for KBB value. It's incorrect. They are not the MARKET average. Have you looked at the retail value KBB quote you for a used 99 Camry and Accord? It's MORE expensive than buying the car new. That makes alot of sense doesn't it? The value they quote are the initial dealer OFFER. Not the actual final price. (Why in hell would any one by a used car, if they have to pay, according to KBB, more than buying a new car). Edmund post the average MARKET price. The price that transaction is actually dealt at. You won't see Edmund saying your used car is worth more than when it's new. Edmund's number is clearly the more logical and reasonable number. And the difference in resale $449.

    Camry had fleet sale way before 97. Toyota has always been doing control feel sale. So has Honda. So if resale has been high for more than a decade, it's not about to change now. By the way, Camry became a midsize in 1992. Accord didn't become midsize until 1998.

    Accord is noisy. Don't take my word for it, take Edmund's and Car and Driver's word for it. Along with the general consensus. They all agree Accord is noisy.

    Interior layout. What's wrong with Camry's interior lay out. It's one of best ones. Accord is more modern? Gee, all this subjective talk. Might as well turn this into a liberal vs conservative debate.

    chasies. Well, Camry's chasis is quieter, and softer, and seems to be safer as well. Accord is sportier. Again preference.

    Anyway. I think most people could agree Accord transmission is rather harsh. Please check Accord's forum, you will see complaints about the transmission, not the case in Camry forumn. Camry advantage #1.

    "1)Resale is better for Accord."

    Agreed, but $400 some dollars isn't a big deciding factor for most of the buyers". So yes, it's a small advantage for Accord. 1 point for Accord.

    "2)There shouldn't be any problem accepting about
    4Cyl engine. Better power, Better highway passing."

    Agreed. But Camry's 4 cyllnder is does it's job. People are not all about power, or else the Civic (which is slower than the Camry) would never sell. People buy what they like. Anyway, yes, the nod goes to Accord. 1 point for Accord.

    "3)Visibility Drive an Accord to know about it.
    It has prob'ly the BEST visibility in it's class
    or may be in any class. (Odyssey has HUGEvisibilty)"

    Camry doesn't have bad visibility. Visibility is not a problem in the Camry at all. But Accord does have a slightly better visibility, ok, 1/2 points.

    "4)Value Accord is better value."

    This is a repeat of (1). We already calculated the value difference, $449. Trying to score extra points? :) No points.

    "5)Better Suspension setup"

    Incorrect. It depends on the preference in ride. For family use (the majority of the buyers), Accord suspension characteristics is inferior to Camrys. I would actually say Camry has the ride advantage. I would actually put 1 point for Camry, but I will refrain, and say no point.

    "6)Better Steering response/feedback"

    Again, depends on the preference. camry's steering is very relaxed and totally vibration free. This again, is either advantage or disadvatnage depends on your driving preference. No point.

    Total, 2.5 points for Accord.

    Now my turn.

    (a) Camry quietness. It's signficantly quieter. Everyone agree. 1 point for Camry.

    (b) Camry softness. It's signficantly more comfortable ride. 1 point for Camry. But since then you can claim Accord has sportier ride, and get 1 points. So ok, then cancle out. I would say no point.

    (c) Camry transmission. Camry suspension shift smoothly and reliably and quickly. YOu won't even feel it shift. In no way is Accord's automatic better than Camrys. As reliable, yes, as good, no. Honda is never known for making good automatics. That has been the complaint by critics and consumer alike for decades. 1 point for Camry.

    (d) Camry safety. Crash test in Camry's favor. As well as injury and death rate a siginficantly lower for the Camry. 1 point for Camry.

    That's 3 points already. I won't go into the better Toyota warranty, or the full size spare tire, better sound system....

    Enough already. As you can see, both sides have clear advantage in some area over the other. That's why people choose between them.

    Oh, as for fleet sale. Toyota has been doing fleet sale about 8-12% (10%), that's by Toyota's sales chief. Honda does about 4%.

    Now, use car market is 3 times the new car market size. 10% Camry fleet sale = 10%/3 = 3.3% used car market. 4% Accord fleet sale = 4%/3 = 1.3% used car market. This is a rough estimate, but you can see how it in the ball park.

    Anyway. It's ok, that you try to measure how good the car is by YOUR standard. And it's also good that I measure the car by MY standard. But that's doesn't mean a thing out there when millions of people are buying.

    Why do so many people choose Camry over Accord? Only the buyers themselves know. I can see it, because I think the Camry makes a better family car. But I understand those who prefer to trade off some comfort for sportiness will be buying the Accord. That's fine with me too. There are in my mind plenty of reason to choose either one.

    People WILL buy what they like. Since Camry and Accord are arch rivales, people looks into them both. People choose Camry for good reasons, and people choose Accord also for good reasons. I don't doubt them, I have my own preference. If everyone was like me, no one would be buying the Accord, and if everyone was like you, no one would be buying the Camry. Luckly, the world is little more diversified that that. :)
  • liufeiliufei Member Posts: 201
    You said to keep preferences out of the equation, but that's quite hard because it influence many aspects when comparing the cars.
    For instance:
    - Better Suspension (Double Wishbone Fully
    Independent....
    5)Better Suspension setup...

    --> perhaps if your preferences is a sporty ride,but if you prefer smooth ride, Camry's suspension is better. So how can you said which suspension is better without letting your preferences interferes with it?
    You seemed to enjoy the sporty ride and handling, thus making the Accord's suspension better (in your opinion), while other may think the Accord's suspension more bumpy (compared to Camry's) and think its suspension as inferior than that of the camry.

    Thats just one example to consider.
  • wenyuewenyue Member Posts: 558
    milindc. I won't post on this subject any longer. It's been debated to death, and it's not going to change the way people choose their cars.

    Camry and Accord both has its advantages. And buying a car is all about preference. Even the numbers that we can account for are just a part of it.

    You can't put a $ or a # to something such as quietness. To sports drivers, it's worth nothing, infact, some people are turned out by a loud revving engine. Yet, to others, it's worth all the world when their baby sleeps peacefully in the back.

    Let people choose, and respect their choice. Who are you to say their choice is wrong when they feel that they would be better off owning a Camry (or Accord).
  • liufeiliufei Member Posts: 201
    geeze....If i would've known you gonna post
    extensive info like that, I wouldn't have bother to write mine. :)

    But yes, In my opinion, it would be hard to take out your preferences from the picture, as well as trying to rate abstract factor such as quietness,etc
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    The only advantage a Camry may have over the Accord is its interior noise. I admit the Camry I test drove was a little bit quieter, I felt more isolated in other words. But when asking the Camry for some power to pass, or get on the freeway, forget it, the Camry is a slug. The Accord wins the Acceleration round hands down. I like to drive my cars not sleep in them. As for the latest sales figures, the 2000 Taurus is number 2 and moving up fast on the Camry. May claim number 1 by this time next year. Honda has never much really cared about sales numbers, they want repeat buyers and to gain and hold market share. Toyota is probably 3x or more, the size of Honda as far as total world sales. Toyota and Honda are the only 2 Japanese owned car compainies left. I am starting to believe Honda will make it through all these mergers. I have read they are a quite solid finiancially and have some good products coming out in the next 5 years. A truck and a Honda SUV are right around the corner..
  • wenyuewenyue Member Posts: 558
    I wonder then why Civic LX sells so well. It's even more under powered. When compared to Sentra, Protege, Corolla, Focus, it's even more of a slug. Yet it's the best seller for compact cars.

    It's funny how both Camry 4 cylinder and Civic LX 4 cylinder, both being underpowered by your standard, are the best sellers in their segment. :)

    Taurus is doing very well. It's value is undeniable. You can have a fully loaded Taurus for FAAAAAAAAAAAAAR less than either Camry or Accord. And if you are leasing a car, where reliability is a none issue, it makes an excellent choice.

    Toyota car operation is about 2x that of Honda's. Honda has specialized in engine sector, also making motorcycle and power tools. Toyota is far more diversified, reaching into banking, housing, telecommunciation. Toyota is the more stable and fiancially wealthy company by far (wealthest automaker in the world).

    We shall see if HOnda survive as an independent company in the next few years. Honda's profit is taking a beating due to poor exchange rates ( down 25% total last year and this year). So Honda needs to shore up it's defenses at this time of fiancial weakness. If they can survive the next few years, they have a good chance of staying independent.
  • titopuentetitopuente Member Posts: 46
    Honda is overtaking Daimler-Chrysler's position in Canada as one of the top 3 car manufacturers. I think they've alread overtaken them.

    ADG: GTI rules, I don't know why, but I have a thing for the Honda's...I feel more "at home" in them. I enjoyed my drives in a Prelude SH just as much as I would a GTI, My preferences just stick towards the Prelude although the GTI did feel faster. I hate the long gears in the Prelude though it seriously needs a 6th gear.
  • zhuzhu Member Posts: 6
    1. Accords are always sold cheaper than Camries, which partially explains the so called 'resale';
    2. Although Camries are more expensive, people are still chosing Camries over Accords;
    3. Accords are in high demand, so are Camries, and Camries' market value is still higher;
    4. Did you guys find that 2001 Civics have MacPherson design instead of double-wishbone, which Honda funs raved about? Please tell us why;
    5. Accord just remind us Civic image. Period.
  • wenyuewenyue Member Posts: 558
    you said "Civic had less "PEAK" numbers than
    others, but very good power across the rpm band."

    Actually, the Civic has very little power in the low and mid rpm band. And are slower than Camry with the corresponding transmission. Only the Civic EX can keep up with the Camry, if you rev it into high rpm and the VTEC kicks in, but it's still low on power in the lower rpm band. And the DX along with the best selling LX civic engine are both slower than Camry 4 cyclinder. But power isn't the only thing people look for, that's why Camry and Civic are best seller in their class.

    As for the suspension. I agree, Accord's suspension is more sophisticated. A better suspension for sports cars. Unfortunatly, it also transmitts more noises and also in the case of the Accord, make the ride more stiff and bumpy. A suspension is only as good as the result it gives.

    So again, it comes down to preference. If you want a semi-sporty car, and don't mind sacrificing quiet and soft ride for it, than Accord's suspension will serve you better. But if you want the car to give a really quiet and soft ride, for the family, and is willing to sacrifice sportiness for it, than Camry's suspension will clearly be the better one.

    Camry is designed as a family car, to excell as a family car. Not a sports car. You wouldn't be happy with it, if you were looking for a sporty ride. But than again, one would be pretty ticked off driving an Accord if you were expecting a soft/quiet ride. I wouldn't be happy in the Accord, and you wouldn't be happy in a Camry. Well, to each his own.

    Again, we come back to these 2 cars as being the leader among the midsize car. And both are great car (depends on your preference), buy what you like. :)
  • milindcmilindc Member Posts: 123
    What exactly ur first point about ??? It's contardictory ??

    People ofcourse will choose camry over accord & vice versa..it's their preferrence. I'm here to talk about practical facts...

    Camry & Accord sales are VERY CLOSE to individual buyer, let's not say that more buyers are choosing camry etc. It's almost the same.
    Every year more than 800,000 buyers are choosing
    these two.

    Civic:
    There can't be a comparision of 1.6, 1.7 Liter engine with 2.2 Litre. Let's not comp Civic with camry. RPM Band: I was atlking about others in econo cars.


    Suspension on 2001 Civic is a step backwards.
    It's a compromise to improve interior space...
    I didn't likeit, that's the reason many of my friends got 2000 Civic. New Civic also rides softer than previous.

    "Independent" suspension is not necesary only for sporty cars, it wil improve ride quality in any car.

    There are many points these two cars share
    1)Reliability 2)Resale 3)Build Quality

    It's just surprising how much difference is there
    in build quality of other manufacturers.
    Honda/Toyota are way ahead of others in this matter....

    Thanks,
    ~Milind
  • milindcmilindc Member Posts: 123
    For 2000 Accords 4Cyl, LXV6 Coupe & Civics

    Thanks,
    ~Milind
  • liufeiliufei Member Posts: 201
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Camry also has independent struts suspension? As well as BMW 3 and 5 series, and the VW Passat (which handles better than the Accord).

    Lets face it, even among Compact, Civic has one of the weakest engine. Just about every other compact (Corolla,Elantra,Focus,Nubira) has better performance from the engine compared to the Civic. The 2001 Civic does have an engine thats better than the previous version, as well as spacious interior space and better ride.
  • wenyuewenyue Member Posts: 558
    Camry has fully independent suspension. It's a derivative of MacPherson strut. Camry's suspension is fully independent. Milindc, please check with Edmund's new car section. The camry's suspension is "front independent strut suspension with anti-roll bar, front coil springs, gas-pressurized front shocks, rear independent strut suspension with anti-roll bar, rear coil springs, gas-pressurized rear shocks" So Camry has independent suspension. Camry's suspension is tuned more for comfort/soft/quiet ride, while Accord's suspension is tune for more agressive driving.

    The only car that doesn't have independent suspension that I'm aware of is the Nissan Maxima's rear suspension.
  • awong22828awong22828 Member Posts: 5
    Maybe I may be in the wrong place but can someone help me with my car. I own a 1994 Accord Ex with the automatic transmission. It has 125,000 milies. When I put the car in reverse it sometimes makes a loud clunking noise and then the car drives normally. This usually happens after the car is out int reverse and driven about 25 feet. Does anyone know what this problem is? Has anyone else had this problem before? How can it be fixed and at what cost? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
  • wenyuewenyue Member Posts: 558
    The reverse clunk on a 1994 Accord?

    I thought the problem only affected 1999 Accords.

    Awong22828. You might want to check out some of the old post back in Honda Accord 2 (look in the archived section). The reverse clunk problem affected couple months of production back in 1999. Honda admitted it (I think they said the problem was with the torque converter) and offered to replace the defective transmission with new ones (if I remember right). But I didn't know any 1994 Accord had that problem. You might check with you Honda dealer, they should know something about that.
  • milindcmilindc Member Posts: 123
    Yes it affected some EX-V6 manufactured between dec 99 I suppose. For 1994 Check if the problem is perstistent. U should be able to reproduce it to have dealer look into it.

    Thanks,
    ~Milind
  • milindcmilindc Member Posts: 123
    tend to have some problems even with Honda/Toyota.
    Honda had its share with Ex-V6 xmission, Toyota camry had its share with alignment (drfting to right side & vibrations in steering wheel).

    My rental Hertz Camry (in Florida) had this problem. The steering wheel had vibrations from 30mph to 60 mph & it was drifting to right side.

    But Honda/Toyota stand behind their product better than other manufacturers.

    ~Milind
  • wenyuewenyue Member Posts: 558
    The steering wheel vibration on the camry was due to a loose bolt. Turned out to be pretty easy for them to fix. But yes, Toyota had it's share of problems. Back in early to mid 90's, Toyota Tacoma's V6 engine has a defect with the head gasket and pissed off quite a few people, so Toyota extented the warranty for the engine to over 100,000 miles. That calmed things down. That's how a good company should take care problems when it rise.

    Mitsubishi on the other hand decided to cover up the problem they have. Now it's been exposed that they have been hiding defects for more than a decade, the company's CEO had to resign. Along with the fact that Mitsu has been in the red for many years now, I think this is one company that's not long for the world.

    Also news flash. Ford Motor comletely bought up Hertz (they orginally had a large stake in it as well). I think it was yesterday, that they bought all of Hertz up. Hmmm... I wonder if Honda and Toyota will now gradually dissappear from it's fleet.
  • milindcmilindc Member Posts: 123
    Ford had 87% before. That was enough to make Honda/Toyota disappear from the lot. But they need Camrys to attract people to Hertz so does Avis.

    But they do have a LOT of Tauras & Contour on the lot. Ford is now producing 4 Cyl Contours just for fleet so does GM with Lumina.

    ~Milind
  • wenyuewenyue Member Posts: 558
    I think Hertz use Honda Accord and Toyota Camry to attract people who prefer a more upscale midsize car. My aunt in San Diego recently rented an Accord from Hertz. Hertz rental rate isn't the cheapest, but she wanted something more than just a striped down Taurus or Grand Prix. I think Ford's purchase of Hertz in entirety could only decrease the number of Accords and Camry in Hertz fleet.
  • milindcmilindc Member Posts: 123
    Hertz in our area gives 20% AAA discount.
    You can book specific make/model by givin 2:50 one time charge(not per day).

    Atleast 5-6 times I got 5-6 miles Camry !!
    many times they advertize in local paper for used car sale which disturbs me sometimes as they sell those vehicles much less than the market value.
    Many times have to auction those out.

    Wenyue: It's sad to see Corolla on that lot.
    Both Avis & Hertz have Corolla & Neon as standard compact sedan.

    ~Milind
  • udayaudaya Member Posts: 1
    I would like to buy a new car good for family ride.Can any one compare toyota Camry, Honda Accord with Nissan Maxima and other similar cars also. I have a first choice for Camry.But Edmund says that seats are not comfortable in Toyota.What is this mean.Could any one explain.
  • wenyuewenyue Member Posts: 558
    Hertz sells their used car about about $500 below
    market value. That apply to their Camry as well as their Accord. I have seen Civic on at Hertz
    rental as well. I think they only rent the LX
    trim, for both the Accord and Civic.

    Don't worry, Hondas and Toyotas are just a tiny part of their rental fleet. Also both Toyota and Honda are such popular brands, the small number of fleet sale is like a drop in the bucket for in the used car market. Especially since used car market is 3 x time the size of the new car market.
    Wow, 3 times the new car market size! Do you realize that means almost 3 MILLION use Camry and Accord are sold EVERY year. So you can see the small number of fleet sales won't have much impact on resale at all (it hasn't for last 10 years).
  • newcar74newcar74 Member Posts: 19
    So I think it's difficult to see on rental lot.
  • newcar74newcar74 Member Posts: 19
    If u like Camry drive on for longer time(rent it for one day) & check the seats. If you are getting leather seats then that won't be a problem. 2001 Accord is noticibly quiter than the 2000 (I test drove it before getting 2000 SE)
    So try it also. Camry has power driver seat option on LE which would help to find comfortable position.

    Maxima: Styling is ????????
    It's costlier & have better peak numbers but similar torque curve as Honda/Toyota 6Cyl.
    They discount it like crazy so resale is a big mess. It's better handler than these two (Accord is very close though)

    Maxima steering is too sensitive which gets annoying on free-way.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Motor Trend had a great review of the Max, Camry, and Accord V6's. All three were loaded with all the options. The score was so close they came to the conclusion that you can't really go wrong with any of the three. It all boils down to personal preference. I personally don't like the styling of the new Maximas, I prefered the look of the last generation. The performance numbers for all three were within tenths of a point for 0-60, skidpad, slalom ect..
  • wenyuewenyue Member Posts: 558
    Is larger than then both Camry and Accord. But quite expensive (for a Nissan). And that's the only car I know of that still use a non-independent suspension (for the rear).
  • wenyuewenyue Member Posts: 558
    You can rent a Civic from Hertz. But the only ones I have seen are the LX trim, no DX or EX. Hertz also sell it from their used car sales service.
  • wenyuewenyue Member Posts: 558
    is an Ph.D engineer working for Ford. They just bought a new Taurus. 200 hp, silver, auto, power everything (except no sunroof), traction control, ABS. Plus tax and title (6% tax), $19,700 out of the door.

    She said it's quiet obvious that it's louder than Camry, but since her husband works for Ford, and the company's A plan for the employee give even more discount, they decided to get the Taurus. Forgot ask got the Wagon or the Sedan.

    Well, I hope it last....
  • newcar74newcar74 Member Posts: 19
    It would really help.....!!
    Fords are notories for their xmissions to die around 80K.
    Chrysler Xmission around 60K (or before ??)

    GM xmissions last longer 100-120K.

    Toyota/Honda 150-160K

    This is research by third-party. I can't remember the site. They said GM makes the best Xmission, even Mercedese buys xmission from them for their top line models.
  • newcar74newcar74 Member Posts: 19
    Get it if plan is to keep it for a longer period
    more than 5 years. If new year model gets discounts of 2000 (below invoice), u can predict the resale !!
  • adg44adg44 Member Posts: 385
    Who cares!! They are both slow!! 8.1 or 7.8 seconds, your still right around 8 seconds. 8 seconds for a "sporty car" is not too great if you judge sportiness by lateral acceleration. A "sporty car" should run 0-60 in the high 5 to low 6s and be nimble. These are family cars, I don't care what you guys wanna say. There is no happy medium. You either get a family car (like the camry and accord) or you get a true sporty/sports car. About the Accord being sportier than the Camry, I don't think that true by too much. The Accord leans a lot in corners, it's just a tighter feel than the camry. My POS accord coupe V6 didn't corner flat until I dropped it 1.75 inches. Go and look at the skidpad numbers. Also, both of these cars (coming in at over 3300 lbs) are too heavy to be considered sporty. And yes, the camry's manual tranny is going to be faster than the accord in a straight line, but also much faster around the turns. If you've done any track events, the auto's are always slower in the corners than the manuals. You can't do a double-clutch downshift in a auto, or do a heel-toe manuver around a corner. Auto = slow all around! Manual = slow if you don't know how to drive it, like most people on the road.

    - Anthony
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    "A sporty car should run 0-60 in the high 5 to low 6s and be nimble"

    You have pretty high standards for what you consider a fast sedan. Yah the Accord is surely not a sports sedan, but it is a sporty car compared to other cars in its class. This is especially true if you put some good tires on the car. You made your Accord coupe a pos by dropping it 1.75 inches. What a stupid thing to do to that kind of a car.
  • liufeiliufei Member Posts: 201
    Sometimes I never get the argument of resale value, if a car already being discounted with huge rebate ($1000+) and their price is significantly lower for resale as reported by Edmund,KBB,etc, did they already taken into account about the rebate ?
    American & Korean cars offers more value for the $$$ than Accord or Camry. And getting the best value seems to be the goal of many people, as apparent in the increase of sales of those models.
    Is this mean sacrificing reliability & resale? Only times can tell again, albeit history shown us differently.

    adg44:
    If a "sporty" car should do 0-60 in 5-6 secs, wtheck is your definition of a sports car? And weight alone doesnt effect the performance of the car, as long as it equipped with an engine that can support it. Heck, even a corvette and nsx doesnt go below 5 secs. I don't think ferrari or porsche has anything that can go below 5 secs.

    An argument has been made many times regarding this. Yes, an Accord is more of a sporty car in this class, (unless you take Maxima into consideration), and Camry is more of a family car.
    Agree with what Vince8 said, the Camry,Accord and Maxima are good car and the tie-breaker between them is which one your preference match the most.
  • adg44adg44 Member Posts: 385
    Ferrari has the 360 Modena which runs 0-60 in the low 4s, Porsche has the 911 Turbo which does 0-60 in 3.6 seconds. Those are sports cars. And lufei, weight does matter. It matters in handling and acceleration. Sporty cars have to be light because that makes them nimble. Take the Corvette, it's a boat!! And it's not even too quick for the huge V-8 that it has. HEAVY. It does matter.
  • redroadrunnerredroadrunner Member Posts: 5
    I wrote this earlier for the "Write your own test drive" section, but I thought it might also fit in here. So here's my 2 cents worth.

    I test drove two 2000 Honda Accord LX's, one 2001
    Honda Accord LX, one 2000 Toyota Camry LE and one
    Toyota Camry CE. All came with 4 cylinder engines, automatic transmissions, A/C, power windows, locks, mirrors, and cruise control.

    The Accord and Camry are evenly matched. The Accord had good acceleration (each time ended up at 75 mph and climbing before I knew it) while the Camry had decent acceleration (had to give it extra gas to get to highway speeds). The Camry had a soft, quiet ride. The salesperson even dared me to run over a pothole to demonstrate how smooth the ride was. The Accord was more firm and not as quiet,but visibility seemed better.

    I liked the Camry's 60/40 split folding rear seat
    back (versus the Accord's one piece) and the
    CD/cassette player (versus Accord's cassette player (2000) or CD (2001)). However, I liked the
    Accord's standard "Immobilizer" system versus
    nothing on the Camry (unless you order an alarmsystem or a higher trim level).

    In the end, we chose the 2000 Accord LX because of
    price. We got it at $17,600 financed at 5.9% for
    48 months. Toyota matched the 5.9% rate, but
    wanted $18,300 for the Camry CE and over $19,000for the Camry LE. I don't think you can go wrong with either car. It just depends on your driving preference.

    While shopping for a car, I was driving a 2000
    Ford Taurus SEL (with 7,200 miles) which I rented from Budget. It gave a smooth, comfortable ride, but I felt like I was driving the Titanic.
    It was hard to see where the car ended (or began
    for that matter. And I'm not that small: 5 ft. 9
    in.) And it doesn't turn sharply either. I had to swing wide to get into parking spots. The
    interior was roomy and nice. Unfortunately, I also estimate I got about 17 mpg in a 65% highway/35%city driving mix. For long trips, I would probably rather rent a Taurus than a Camry or Accord. But I wouldn't want to own a Taurus.
  • newcar74newcar74 Member Posts: 19
    http://www.msnbc.com/news/464290.asp?0nm=-21B&cp1=1

    Wenyue: Now you will agree that Honda has much more young consumers than Toyota. Toyota is doing every effort to build image in young buyers.

    Toyota lured Honda's racing team by giving 3-5$ Million !!

    ~Milind
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    The rivarly between Honda and Toyota is out there.
    Recently at a get together with some friends at a park we ran into another couple. As guys go the conversation turned to cars, hotrods, boats ect.. I was then asked what I drive? An Accord I responded. A few seconds later the guy responded with an attitude of "I drive the number one selling car, a Camry.."@! I couldn't believe it. So, as tactifuly and as adult like, I responded, "Oh you mean the 135HP 4cyl version?" A weak reply of "Yes" came from this guy... End of conversation... :-)).....
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