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I'm also trying to decide between a Japan or U.S. country of manufacturer/assembly. I've always heard that Japan plants put tighter tolerances and higher QA on their cars. Has that work ethic caught up with U.S. union auto workers who are assembling those cars here in the U.S.?
I don't think it's worth paying a higher certified price for a 12-month warranty (if you can find one that old that has a warranty). Even if you do choose to buy a certified car, you should take it to a reputable mechanic and/or Toyota/Honda specialist before buying it. That will be your best guarantee.
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ictl/ictl.htm
PDF FILE:
IIHS 2001-2003 Most recent model year
Vehicle Name Injury Collision Theft
(Lower is better)
Toyota Camry 92 83 87
Honda Accord 103 85 73
Lexus ES 300 71 97 98
Volkswagen Passat 4WD 66 120 103
Volkswagen Passat 79 104 73
Nissan Maxima 89 102 283
Mazda6 129 112 ---
Basically, I want to see if my worries about those model years are warranted. Some people say, it's a problem, but then others say that it was only affected about 1.6% of the Accords out there for those years.
I love Honda and want to stay that way.
The tests from NHTSA and IIHS are useful when historical data is not available, i.e. for new designs etc...
It is clear from the data that the Camry is slightly better than the Accord in injuries and accident rates. The Lexus ES300 is identical to the Camry V6, but had 20% better injury rate. How can that happen?
It did not say what year the data was taken. Between 94-97, IIHS stats showed driver death rate in Accord was 170% Camry.
Vehicle Name Injury Collision Theft
Toyota Camry 92 83 87
Honda Accord 103 85 73
Lexus ES 300 71 97 98
So let's agree to disagree and leave that can of worms where we buried it a while back. There's no need to have that argument all over again.
In future, hope we can all use practical flat-free tires. Is this the one? http://www.detnews.com/2005/autoshow/0502/12/B01-62263.htm
Happy Motoring!
O
I hope you are taking some time to read through the postings here - they'll give you a ton of input on your question!!
Good luck.
I'd like to replace the Vette and the S60 with a solid second family car. I would like to keep my budget to less than $30K all in. Both the Honda and Toyota represent excellent values.
Personally, I give the exterior appearance to the Camry and the interior to Honda. Space wise, the Camry has a slight advantage. I like both rides - I'd let my wife choose between the SE or LXE ride of the Camry (I'm neutral).
Now, here's the question: What are the one or two things I should consider most in my decision?
Thanks for your help!
Regards,
Tony
The Camry is softer riding, but the Accord is a bit more sporty. Either way you'll have a good car, so it really doesn't matter if you have trouble deciding.
One thing to consider is that Accords don't have any factory options because each model among DX, LX, and EX levels is sold separately with its included features. This makes the buying process easier and you can compare prices among Honda dealers precisely. Don't buy any dealer-installed options until you get the price on the car you're buying.
I think Toyotas have a list of factory options and option packages that can be confusing and annoying unless you want to special order your car.
I think it's easier to buy a Honda Accord that meets your requirements and any features you didn't want but get anyway because they're included will be features you'll appreciate later.
I really didn't want XM radio nor a sunroof but had to get them with the Accord EX-L because only that model with the 4 cyl. engine had curtain airbags in 2004. Now, I enjoy the extra features that came with that upscale model......Richard
Resale will be poor as the car approaches the time when costly battery replacement is required.
People who like to feel good about themselves will buy it and think they're doing the Earth a favor until they realize that if hybrids become popular, there will be dead batteries piled high like old tires are now. So much for environmental friendliness.....Richard
Camry: softer, quieter ride, power driver seat, outside temp gauge, bigger trunk and if money is an issue has a $700+ rebate and low financing, plus a longer powertrain warranty, but head airbags are an option.
Accord: better handling,a bit more resale value,telescoping steering wheel,standard head airbags, low financing.
Both great cars, cant really make a bad decision, but if you are like me and keep cars a long time, even the little things add up.
As for the reliability, get an extended warranty for 7 years/100,000 miles.
If you're into it, the Accord sedan won't look disingenuous with bigger rims and a lip spoiler, which can't be said of the Camry imo.
The kicker would be the Accord's higher resale and longer remaining life cycle (by 1 year; the Camry gets replaced by a new body as early as next year for the 07 model).
A friend of mine works in the auto industry suppling Toyota with some raw materials. He told me Friday night the same thing about the upcoming design change for the Camry. His timeframe was the same - in about a year.
Thanks.
So, you'll have a newer style for a year longer if you buy the Accord.
I think that it's best to buy ANY newly redesigned car after a year when the car's early defects have been corrected--there might still be problems, but fewer of them.
BTW, don't be surprised if the next ('07) Camry looks like the Mark X recently introduced in Japan.
I tried to copy and paste URL's showing pix of the Mark X, but the links didn't work on this page. Just GOOGLE 2006 Toyota Mark X and you'll find photos of it.....Richard
I have heard the same things about the next Altima as well.
Whether the '07 Camry appears early or late in 2006 is anyone's guess, but I'd bet on later next year.
The all-new Avalon is a 2005 model--a fairly late introduction for a 2005 car.....Richard
Good luck.
I like the options and features on the Camry like auto on/off headlights, outside temp gauge, full-size spare. I also like the exterior appearance of the Camry, particularly the SE model with the fog lamps, alloy wheels and rear spoiler. I'm not quite so sure on the interior of the Camry SE, particularly the dark charcoal interior with the orange gauges and speedometer (I'd really have to see it in person). Of course I don't have to get the SE model. I could get an XLE with even more features.... but for a young person, the XLE might make people think I'm driving my parents' car! I don't want a car that makes me look older than I am. I want something sophisticated but fun. And the XLE just doesn't look like a car for a a young 20-something guy. Which is why I favor the SE.
I really love the interior of the Accord. The exterior isn't bad - it's grown on me. I like a lot of the standard features that come on the EX model. I definitely want the side/curtain airbags. I just wish the Accord came with some of the fun features that the Camry had. Even my Corolla has an outside temp gauge - why does Honda make it an option, even on their high-end model?!
I've driven my mom's 04' Camry XLE. So smooth and quiet. I love the ride. I haven't driven a Camry SE to see the difference. Haven't driven an Accord yet either. I guess that would play a huge factor in which car I prefer. I really need to spend time behind the wheel of both cars.
Of course, the Camry is due to be re-designed in late 2006 as a 2007 model. And the Accord should get a mid-cycle facelift sometime later this year for 2006. So if I plan to buy a Camry I should do it soon. But if I want the Accord, I definitely want to wait to see what changes come for 2006 (new bumpers, lights, grille, features, etc.?).
So basically, I'm torn.
It took me a while to become accustomed to leaving the odometer in a trip position, but I like that now and the outside temp is always visible.
The Accord EX-L (leather) and EX V6 come with a standard XM radio which is great if you're willing to pay for a subscription to use it.
I still like my '04 Accord better than the Camry I tested in August, '03 when I was car shopping, but it sounds like you might be happier with the Camry because you're currently a happy Toyota owner.
The Accord's ride is much firmer.......Richard
There is an ongoing discussion regarding a serious problem with the 2005 Camry SE transmission.
My new '05 Camry SE with the V6 engine is anything BUT quiet and smooth! The electronic transmission has a terrible jerk and hesitation at low speeds. The sport suspension and low-profile tires are very noisy... especially on grooved highway pavement. The seats are extremely hard.....
Needless to say, I am not pleased with my new Camry SE. Good luck.
Injury statistics are of little to no value. These numbers make no consideration for a wide array of influential factors. The type of person attracted to a particular car has a huge impact on that cars injury claim rate and accident rate. For example, a Mustang GT will no doubt have a much higher injury claim rate than a Windstar minivan. Which of these two vehicles would you expect to be involved in more serious crashes? The Mustang, driven by an inexperienced and reckless teenage male? Or the Windstar, driven by a more experienced, conservative mother? Driver demographics, location demographics, and a certain degree of randomness are all influential factors in these injury statistics.
In order to ascertain the safety of a vehicle, you have to isolate and remove these extraneous factors and concentrate only on each particular vehicles ability to protect its occupants in a crash. Hence we have the IIHS and NHTSA crash tests.
If you haven't already, try and test drive an Accord manual as well. While I don't drive manual because traffic is plain awful where I live, they have a reputation of being the best shifters out there at any price.
You can't go wrong with the Camry either and I actually prefer the SE's exterior (especially in that dark grey color).
Now as for alloys, why are they so difficult to get unless you buy the EX Accord, or the XLE Camry for much more. Why not make it an easy to get option on the LX and LE? Heck, it is even an option on the Camry SE>
The temp guage for the 03-05 Accord is 91$ at handaaccessories.com for just the parts. Getting it installed at a dealer would probably be $200 to $300 parts and labor.
You're right, I need to drive the Accord, hopefully this weekend. I have a friend with a Civic, and he raves about the manual. I imagine the Accord's would be just as smooth.
I love it. Although my 98 CR-V is getting jealous.
My top priorities (in order) were:
1. 2002 - Year with least amount of potential problems
2. No salvage title - You never know what really happened and if it's still structurally sound.
3. No dealer - Higher cost of vehicle, sales tax.
4. Cost
5. Decent low mileage 10-13K/year (14-15K is pushing it)
6. 1st owner
7. Condition - Good checklist here--> http://www.nadaguides.com/Res/content.aspx?LI=1-10-17-2050-0-0-0&- wSec=10&wPr=17&wPg=2051&ItemId=26921
Other pluses:
8. Car resided in dry climates (found in carfax/autocheck title registrations)
9. Maintenance docs
10. Made in Japan (signified by a J as the first char in the VIN, 1 is USA)
Most people would say that Japan manufacturing & assembly plants have tighter tolerances.
11. Side Airbags
12. ABS with 4 wheel disc brakes
I basically had to renegotiate those priorities with my what I was willing to spend. I looked for about two weeks and had less of a selection because I was limiting myself to around $13k. Out of the 12 priorities, I met numbers 1-10 with my Accord.
I checked the cars.com/autotrader listings out daily (in the morning, afternoon, evening) to see if a new one comes up and called for a visit/test drive as soon as I saw one that fit.
I've got an appointment to test drive all three vehicles next week, but after reading the posts here, I'm very doubtful that I will roll the dice and hope I get a good one. I've got a couple of months before my purchase so I'll be checking into how Toyota responds to the numerious complaints and articles about this tranny / hesitation problem.
The discussion on the Problems and Solutions is a heated one. I am not certain, however, whether it is a widespread issue amongst Toyota V6 owners (and Lexus) or a very small issue amongst a few. Any comments? Is Toyota Corp. really that insensitive to the issue?
It would be incredibly arrogant if the #1 family sedan manufacturers would allow a systemic safety issue like this to jeopardize the the well-being of one's family. Regardless of how much I like the Toyota's look and feel, I could never make the purchase of a vehicle that could even remotely put my family in harm's way.
This forum has been tremendous in helping me make this buying decision. Any feedback would be appreciated.
Regards,
Tony
I personally don't find it to be the big deal that others do and it certainly wouldn't keep me from buying a V6 SE if that's what I wanted.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04343/423383.stm
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04345/424551.stm
I emailed the dealership I have been working with but have not received a response.
The list for the Split 5 Spoke Alloy is $552 before installation. We paid $300 over invoice for our Camry, which I thought was a great deal given the newness and already strong sales of the redesign. We stated our preference for alloys the entire time, and got the dealer to offer us this price, plus a post delivery 'We Owe' contract for the alloys at no charge, and for the accompanying wheel locks as well!
Naturally, I accept that the alloys, Im sure were not given to us for 'no extra charge'. However, given the timing of the deal, $300 over invoice on the LE w/ wheel covers, BUT including alloys and the locks, I felt was very fair. The dealer ordered and they were installed 3 weeks later.
Now, of course, there is absolutely no reason to pay anything more than invoice less incentives on either the Accord or Camry, as neither is new and the competition has significantly stiffened. (Except for the awesome Accord Hybrid).
~alpha
If you are just looking for economical (if, ah, sedate) transportation you have to give the nod currently to the Camry in the Boston area. They are being advertised with $1,500 rebates and 0.9% financing.
IMHO problems get amplified on these forums. People who have problems look for help and advice. The rest of us who don't have problems are out driving. These are both extremely reliable, durable cars.
As far as the Accord, here's what Car & Driver says, in one of their more lucid moments:
"... the Accord persists on the 10Best honor roll for traditional Accord virtues: rigid chassis, outstanding road manners, excellent powertrains, straightforward ergonomics, bulletproof construction, and a high fun-to-drive quotient by mid-size-sedan standards—all of which is a long way of saying value.
Accords come in two distinct flavors: the sportier coupe, which includes the option of a six-speed manual transmission with the V-6, and the more sedate sedans. Either way, Accords continue to dominate an intensely competitive segment, a tradition that dates to the beginning of these awards. This year marks the 23rd renewal of 10Best. In all but four of those 23 years, there’s been a Honda Accord on the list. No other car has come close."
~alpha
I guess the important question here is how much this issue impacts the usability (or safety) of the vehicle. People's opinion seem to differ, and it probably has to do with personal driving style as well. From my experience and understanding, it happens most often when trying to do a hard acceleration from low street speed (around 30 mph?). In certain cases, it could generate unsafe conditions to unsuspecting drivers. It doesn't seem to be a problem when a person accelerates steadily, such as merging into highway traffic. For me (I drive one of the cars has this trans/engine combination, but not Camry SE), I try to build a habit not to rush into turns in surface traffic, so I don't have to accelerate hard after the turn. I can understand that this can be a big problem to some people, but a non-issue to others.
In comparison to Camry V6 (even SE), the Accord V6 (which has a 3.0L engine)actually feels a bit faster and has pretty good pedal response. Some people, however, still complain that Accord's downshift is not quick enough at highway speed, and for people used to sports cars, the accellaration from stand still is of course, not quick enough.
The original post of the topic also mentioned the quietness comparison (and there are other posts in this forum stated opposite opinions). I reported in another post that from my subject feel, current Camry and Accord (both V6) are actually very similar in this aspect, and I didn't feel that one is much quieter than the other. Other opinions?
I guess you will never buy one of my used cars, nor will I buy one of yours.
A rear wing spoiler adds class to every car except maybe a SRT4
6-speed V6 black Accord Coupe all the way baby!
Cheers,
MidCow
P.S. - If I remember right Toyota wenied -out and dropped the manual trans in the Camry V6
What are you talking about? Remember the Supra last manufactured in 1998 and a new version in 2006/2007
And to a lesser extent the MR2 ( this is the last year) and the Celica GTS
I have had Toyotas in the past, but wil probably never buy another one primaruly because of the Houston Toyota Dealership's snotty attitude about the Prius.
MidCow
6-speed 2005 Accord Coupe
Decals and a big chrome exhaust tip give more bang for the buck....;-)
A wing produces downforce, at the expense of increasing drag
A spoiler reduces drag by "spoiling" the flow of air over the trunk and reduces turbulence behind the car.
A "wing-spoiler" does not exist, as far as I know...
What's funny about these terms is that on an aircraft, a wing produces "up-force" (lift), and a spoiler increases drag.