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Mazda Millenia

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Comments

  • billyperksbillyperks Member Posts: 449
    Guys-
    I was reading today's Wall Street Journal and I came across an article in the Personal Journal Section.The article is about how Auto Dealers are ruining the RESALE value on used car.
    The incentives and 0% financing they are offering according to the article is depreciating the value of the used car market.
    What stood out to me was the Mazda Millenia S, they are saying that on a 2000 "S"- the trade in value is worth $13,608.00, meaning the car lost 55.5% of its value.
    I don't think that's correct because when I turned in my 1999 Millenia "P", the residual was in the $14,000.00 dollar range.

    Has anyone tried to trade in their 2000 "S",and if you did what is the trade in value?
  • phatpatphatpat Member Posts: 22
    Preguntas: First of all recently I went to start my 95 Mill S and the car turned over and died. I immediately thought it was possibly the battery or alternator. Then I realized the inside lights were fine but when I turned the key nothing happened, I mean nothing. So anwyway I got it towed to my mechanic and they did a couple days worth of troubleshooting because the battery and alternator appeared to be fine. They replaced the starter and some relay either before or after it and nothing continued to happen when trying to start it up. So finally to end this they ran a computer check on the engine and found one cable way underneath that I guess allows the computer to basically talk to the engine and that fixed the problem. But now when I start the car for the first time everytime it makes a strange kind of screeching grinding noise, I then turn the key back and do it again and it starts up fine. Any ideas whatsoever out there? Any info is greatly appreciated and thanks in advance.
  • momazdamomazda Member Posts: 3
    It sounds like the starter they put in may have a problem. I'm new to this discussion, I bought a 2002 Millenia S (platinum silver) back in April 02. Car has every option including stainless door sills, 4 seasons, CD changer, etc. except 2 tone paint. I paid $25,500 including $500 college grad rebate including adding splash guards and a rear spoiler. I'm completely satisfied with the car and dealership. I sold these cars for the same dealership in 1994 when they first came out so I'm very familar with them. Right now car has 9,800 miles on it and I'm getting 21 mpg compared to 19 mpg when the weather was warmer (live in Missouri) and I drive the car hard.
  • un_yzun_yz Member Posts: 12
    I just noticed that the front-rear defroster switch doesn't glow in night. The dealer is saying that is standard. Anybody, any feedback ?
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    up to and MY2000:
    There is only one bulb in that A/C control unit. If the ring around the temp dial glows it is working as intended.

    2001-2002
    There is a separate bulb for the defroster switch.
  • cayennered1cayennered1 Member Posts: 193
    With my lease expiring next month I've been looking in the near and entry level luxury area. From a purchase price-features and luxury perspective nothing approaches the Millenia. With a price in the 22-23K area it is 7 to 12K cheaper than the competition. I like some of the competition but my budget is tight and right now it's hard for me to justify an extra 100-150/mo on the car payment.

    Acknowledging that the Millenia is not state of the art it still is exceptionally well equipped, comfortable and stylish and there is little if anything that can be bought in the 22-23K range that competes with it.

    The question remains as to whether resale might be a deterrant to buying this car. With the general used car market in free fall because of heavy new car sales I don't believe the Millenia will be that much worse than most in the resale area. My Galant going off lease is worth 2K less than the residual. Sure Toyotas and Hondas may do better but most cars don't. I just heard today that a two year old Taurus has depreciated from 18K to 8K. Given the liklihood that this car will be reliable and therefore, I'll probably keep it 3-4 years at least I don't think resale will be crucial.
  • tomekktomekk Member Posts: 310
    2000 Millenia S is 3 years old now - in "car model years" (2003 models are out, and it won't depreciate much anymore).

    So, if it was bought for $26,000 and after 3 model years it is worth $14,000 - depreciation is $4,000 year. Not bad, something like $340/month.

    Simple math!

    Tomek
  • fwatsonfwatson Member Posts: 639
    Once again the comparison misses the proper thread, but here are the facts from the Wall Street Journal.

    2000 Millenia S - Retail $30695 - Trade $13603

    2000 Maxima GXE - Retail $21569 - Trade $11592

    As we all know, Millenia S can be bought all day long for less than $25000, and you will be hard pressed to find a GXE for $21569. These figures are wildly misleading because they DO NOT reflect the actual purchase prices of these cars. If you don't believe that, go to the respective dealers and price them.
  • tomekktomekk Member Posts: 310
    Oh, so we're we're talking "trade-in" value. This is much lower than "private party sale value", which is still lower than "dealer price". I bet 2000 Mill S would be $16-17K off a dealer lot.
    Tomek
  • billyperksbillyperks Member Posts: 449
    That's what I meant- Trade in value.
    But don't you think that is a bit low for the "S" model?
  • tomekktomekk Member Posts: 310
    Sure the number given is low; Kelly Blue Book lists it at $15.6K with 40K miles (excellent condition) or $14.6K in good condition.

    Trade-in value is a relative thing (it varied from 6K to 8.5K on my 95 Passat) closely tied to margins on the new car you're getting. The bottom line is what counts.

    On the other hand, KBB comes up with "Used Car Retail Value" (i.e. buying used from a dealer) for same 2000 Mill S as $21.8K. Nice spread from trade-in (if they can get it).

    Tomek
  • sprocketboysprocketboy Member Posts: 9
    I have read many of the postings here with great interest and I seem to have found a good car in New York. It is a 2000 Mazda Millenia S Millenium Edition (what a name!)with 55,700 miles. I am planning to put in an offer of around $14,800, including the 60,000 mile servicing and painting the brake calipers. Is this reasonable? The car appears to be in excellent condition and is fully equipped, including heated front seats and quite nice 17" chrome wheels.

    I am looking for a comfortable, quick car for long distance driving. My previous car was an Acura Integra sedan, which I really enjoyed. It was extremely reliable and I see that Mazda appears to be so as well.

    Comments for this newbie most appreciated.

    Sprocketboy
  • cayennered1cayennered1 Member Posts: 193
    Since I'm in the market for a new Millenia I haven't been tracking used car prices. I can say that for the most part these cars appear extremely reliable. Don't know whether the Miller Cycle engine creates any issues at high mileage. I suggest you review some of the posts as I seem to remember some discussions of this issue.

    Good luck.
  • fwatsonfwatson Member Posts: 639
    Depreciation takes on different importance depending on your personal situation.

    If you are going to trade cars every three years it is obviously important to buy a car with high trade in value at that point. Better yet, buy a three year old car and let somebody else take the first 50% drop.

    On the other hand. If like me you will be keeping that new car several years, say seven or so, the trade in value holds no importance whatsoever.

    In addition, if you have a strong enough preference for a given car, it might well be worth the higher depreciation to drive what you want.

    I am personally lucky in this respect. I find the Millenia a very pleasant and desirable car, and at the same time I plan to run it down to where it's wheel bearings are exposed (well, not quite that far). I feel special just knowing people see me in it, and listening to their comments about what a great looking car it is. MM is also an extremely reliable car as proven by all reliability ratings to be found anywhere. How can I possibly go wrong. Even the low depreciation cars lose close to half their value in two or three years. I'll drive what feels good to drive and be seen in, not what I think might gain me a few dollars several years down the road.

    For those worried about extra depreciation of a couple of thousand dollars after 3 or four years there is always the Camry. As for me, gimme an MM anyday.
  • cayennered1cayennered1 Member Posts: 193
    In my research on the Millenia I've found virtually every review of the car goes on and on about the fact that the vehicle is outdated and therefore, more "up to date" choices are to be preferred.

    Well I think that is a crock for the most part. I have researched and driven numerous near luxury-entry level luxury cars and frankly the Millenia has very few things lacking that they possess (maybe a little less HP). For example, the Millenia comes with among other things, power moonroof, leather, steering wheel radio controls, power-memory tilt steering, EBD, ABS, climate control,
    traction control and heated seats (Four Seasons Pkg.) and every conceivable power feature. It also has been upgraded in 2001 with much stronger torsional rigidity (for improved NVH), upgraded suspension, state of the art insulation to improve quietness as well as astheitic improvements.

    I have reviewed equipment and features on cars like the Volvo S60, Infiniti G35, I35, Saab 9-3 and Jag X-type and most have less features or at the most equal features and all are much more expensive (8-12K).

    I think these reviews are all about the automotive writer's feeling that new and better means "just out" and just because a car has been around for 7 years it can't be nearly as good as the one that came out last year. I've labored long and hard making a choice and since money is an object to me there is nothing that comes close to the Millenia.
  • fwatsonfwatson Member Posts: 639
    Well said cayennered1. I have had the same observations of the testers. While I subscribe to 4 car magazines, I see a lot to be desired in the people doing the testing. First they preach not to buy a first model year car. Then when one is literally perfected after 7 years they preach not to buy it because it is being discontinued.

    They remind me of the stock market "specialists". None of them know anything past how fast the car will go and how big a number they can get on a skidpad. That information is worthless to most of us. There is noplace we can take advantage of the on the edge performance they make their primary point in judging a car.

    I have found virtually all of the testers lean almost entirely to horsepower and acceleration first, then the important criteria second.

    All I can say to someone who would reject a car like the Millenia based on the grudging reporting of a bunch of leadfoots, is "go for that hotrod". Leave the few MM's left for people who can appreciate a beautiful and immaculately built car at the price of a mediocre CamCord.
  • protegenicprotegenic Member Posts: 199
    I purchased an A4 in 1999 as a treat to myself. I sold it a while later to cut expenses. Did I miss it? Not as much as I thought I would. Sure, it was a great car (just like the others always mentioned with the MM), but the new wore off fast, and in the end you were just driving another, albeit nice, car. Give me a decent performing car with a luxurious interior and I'm happy. The extra HP, snazzy climate controls, nav systems and other bells and whistles available on the other cars the MM is constantly compared to and beat up over are nice to have, but in the end not worth the $10K extra to me.
  • cayennered1cayennered1 Member Posts: 193
    Watson and Proto, you are men after my own heart. It's seems that the media are only interested in what a car can do to push the envelope (speed, electronic gadgets) and not what most buyers are really looking for.

    I agree, give me reasonable performance, a beautiful and well equipped interior and a stylish body at an extremely reasonable cost and you've got my business. I just checked out several MM competitors and every one had an astronomical lease payment. I thought to myself why on earth would I want to spend that kind of money when the Millenia gives me everything those cars have that I care about at a 10 grand discount.

    With one month left on my lease I'm closing in on a deal. Have had offers of $22,500 and $22,160 but think there should be a little more. I'm thinking of asking asking that my last lease payment be paid as part of the deal (due this week) if not, I might as well get my money's worth and wait a few more weeks. I've seen at least 8-10 in colors that I like at several dealers so I don't think availability will be a problem.

    Since my lease expires November 6th I thought perhaps after the first of the month we might see an additional cash incentive what with the Mazda 6 due out around then. Any thoughts on that possibility?

    Also, I think the black is gorgeous, but I know it suffers a lot when dirty. Also like the silver but feel it's much less elegant looking than the black. Several available in both colors so I may have to flip a coin.
  • csuftitanscsuftitans Member Posts: 215
    not for me, since I'm going to keep my Millenia S for a long time. I've just put in a new 700W sound system and I love it even more now.

    BTW, a used 2000 Millenia S is advertised between 16 to 20 grand here in SoCal.

    cayennered1, either color that you pick would be nice. I always thought that silver is the best color for 2001-2002 Millenia, but black as you said; looks elegant, especially when it's clean :-).
  • fwatsonfwatson Member Posts: 639
    While I think black is elegant, that is also the term I have always applied to my Platinum Silver '01.

    IMO, it just depends on how much time you want to devote to keeping your new MM looking great. While the Platinum hides the light colored Florida dirt, a black car here is like a dirt magnet.

    I don't mind some time devoted to keeping my cars clean, but I did reject the black because it would be almost impossible to keep nice. Whatever you get, do not wash in circles. Always use a straight line pattern and plenty of water. This is very important especially if you decide on black. It will show swirls terribly, and once you get the swirls in the paint it is almost impossible to eliminate them without going to a body shop or good detailer. Both expensive options.
  • momazdamomazda Member Posts: 3
    When I bought my 02 MM S, I wanted silver because it would be easier to keep clean. It turns out I so anal about keeping the car clean (especially the chrome wheels) it wouldn't matter as much if I would have got a black one. Both look great, get which ever you prefer.

    To comment on the testers, when I sold the MM in 1994 we sold the S in the $34-36K range, the testers were very high on this car then. Now that the competition has finally caught up the MM can be offered for much less. Also don't let the 210 hp fool you, if you compare the torque to other the MM S comes out on top most of the time. I recently walked away from a 240 hp super charged Grand Prix from a dead stop up to 90 hp.

    Go for the MM!!!
  • phild_masonphild_mason Member Posts: 99
    Granted the technology is not cutting edge, but sometimes that is ok. I cover a large territory in the midwest were can go many of hundreds of miles without seeing anyone who would have easy access to Volvo, Audi or BMW parts.

    However since the Millenia uses much the same drive train as Ford has used in some vehicles, I know that in a pinch, I could find a Blue Oval and likely get some resonable service.

    Also I like the styling. It is distinct. NOt many on the road like CamCords.
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    However since the Millenia uses much the same drive train as Ford has used in some vehicles...

    Only the non-S 2.5L Millenia shares basic engine components with the Probe 2.5L (basically a Mazda MX-6). You would have a hard time finding common parts, I'm sure.
  • phild_masonphild_mason Member Posts: 99
    The Merc Mystique and Ford Contour also used it. Granted not huge numbers.
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    Not the same engine, please try again.
  • protegenicprotegenic Member Posts: 199
    I'd like to be the first to say praise the Lord for that! But I will add I didn't know it was the same engine as the Probe/MX6. Man, I still like the looks of the MX6! If it weren't for kids...sigh!
  • fwatsonfwatson Member Posts: 639
    Here is a good site for information on the Mazda V-6.


    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dorothy.bradbury/probemx/index.htm

  • sprocketboysprocketboy Member Posts: 9
    Well, I have bitten the bullet and bought my 2000 Millenia S. Oddly enough, the dealer only has a 1998 owner's manual for it. Being fussy, I would prefer the right year manual, but, being practical, are the differences between the '98 and '00 cars enough that I should bother?

    On a separate note, I have read the comparison test on Edmunds where the poor Millenia comes 9th and last, although the writers' suggest it would make a good value as a used car. I am concerned about the shakes and rattles mentioned. I thought that the Mazda was supposed to be well screwed-together. What gives?
  • fwatsonfwatson Member Posts: 639
    Here is a good site for information on the Mazda V-6.


    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dorothy.bradbury/probemx/index.htm

  • cayennered1cayennered1 Member Posts: 193
    I happened to check out the Intellichoice website and its review of the Millenia. What a shock, they rate the Millenia a "Poor Value".

    So tell me, what makes the Millenia a poor value. Is it the fact that it is as well or better equipped than most cars in its class? Is it the fact that it can be purchased for 8-10 thousand dollars less than most of the cars in its class? Perhaps it's because it has an excellant history of reliability. Well, maybe I'm stupid but those things don't sound like a poor value to me.

    So what's left to make this car a poor value. Depreciation? Well we've discussed that one in detail and not only doesn't it matter to most of us but it is probably no worse than many cars in its catagory.

    Sarcasm aside, I'm amazed at the narrow minded and nearsighted attitude of these auto analysts. Apparently the real world is not part of their job description.

    Fortunately, the average consumer does deal with the real world which makes those who look seriously at the Millenia see real world "value".
  • fwatsonfwatson Member Posts: 639
    Like everyone else they use the fairytale MSRP instead of a real world price.

    It also doesn't have the 500 HP V-12 engine attached to a 6 speed manual that these testers think is so necessary to reinforce their manhood, while they watch their Nav system instead of the road they are driving on.

    A few reality minded testers would improve the situation, but there don't seem to be any of those working for the Car magazines and web sites.
  • cayennered1cayennered1 Member Posts: 193
    To show you how skewed the brains of these testers are Intellichoice rates the "best value" under $24000 the Honda Civic. So in other words you would be better served to by a sub compact car with modest equipment, average ride and handling over a car in the same price range with leather, moonroof, abs, ebd, heated seats, plush interior, every conceivable power option, a longer warranty, roadside assistance, loaner car, etc.

    These guys actually get paid for this?
  • maximase2002maximase2002 Member Posts: 11
    I posted a question corcerning a 95 MM/S on ebay for $3500 I wanted to know if the bumper lights and rear tail lights were interchangable with the 99-00 models and now it is gone? Can someone answer this for me, and are the projector headlights good for night vision in comparison to reflective headlights?
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    reminder - if you respond to the troll, expect to have your message deleted along with his.

    Any questions or comments should be addressed to me off-line.

    Thanks.
  • csuftitanscsuftitans Member Posts: 215
    maximase2002, the tailights for 99-00 model should be interchangeable with the ones on the '95-'98 models. They have the same shape, just different color. I'm 99% sure about this.
    For me, I'm actually thinking of changing my '00 Millenia's tail light with those on the '01-'02 model. Now these arre a bit different. The other tail lights looks like it will fit without a problem as the shape is the same, but the inner tail lights and the lic plate holder has different shape, so I would have to get both the tail lights set and the lic plate holder. Last time I check, dealer price for all these are about $1700; ouch. So if anyone doesn't like their '01-'02 tail light and prefer the ones on '99-'00 model, let's trade :-), hey I can dream can't I.
  • csuftitanscsuftitans Member Posts: 215
    BTW, the bumper lights should be interchangeable too; again I'm only 99% sure about this. Good Luck.
  • maximase2002maximase2002 Member Posts: 11
    thanks csuftitans, It's hard for me to decided between the 95-00 MM or the 01-02 MM I like both but the 95-00 are the cheapest and the 01-02 have more features that I would like so I think if I don't get the 95 I'll wait for a 2000 MM I think that model comes with steering wheel auto controls and power lumber adjustments. What about the the headlights though are the projectors strong enough when I see older cars with projector headlights they just don't seem to put out as much light as the reflector headlights. Either way I plan to replace the halogens with a Phillips HID kit that would look good with projector lights.;-)
  • greasykid1greasykid1 Member Posts: 336
    Have them on my 2002. They are great!!!
  • mustangdrewmustangdrew Member Posts: 38
    Though the Millenia officially has 0% APR for 60 months and $5,000 dealer cash that probably cannot be combined, I was wondering if anyone has had any luck getting a low APR with the discount.
    Also, again, I don't think they can be combined, but can the 0% go with the 180 days deferred payment for college grad?
  • tomekktomekk Member Posts: 310
    They're very good on my '01
  • mwielunskimwielunski Member Posts: 1
    Just traded my '99 Millenia S w/leather (29k miles) for $13.5k. Got a new Odyssey to replace it. Here's the crunch. My local Mazda dealer is discounting $7k off prices on new 2002 Millenias! Really impacted the price I could get for my cherry pearl white S.

    The word is Mazda is killing the Millenia line with the 2002 run. Shades of the '90 929 I had and loved.

    Yours could be a collectors item in six months or -----------?
  • cayennered1cayennered1 Member Posts: 193
    It's unlikely that the car will turn into a classic. But the Millenia is hardly the first or the last car to be discontinued. Cadillac Catera bit the dust this year and the Contour-Mystique a couple of years back. Resale is tough on many used cars even ones still being manufactured. Lincoln LS gets hammered so do many others.

    Buying this car is all about what you perceive as the value of the vehicle. Specifically, things like reliability, styling, high level of equipment and or course, what it costs to buy. I can imagine those who paid 30K plus a few years ago won't be happy if they want to trade in in the next year or two. By contrast, buying within the last year or so with the great deals available should do a lot to mute any weakness in resale a few years out.

    I actually saw an ad for a lease deal today. $269/mo. with $2300 at signing. I don't go for up front money but figure that might be something like $325/mo. with just first payment. Lease is 48 mo., a little long. Still $350 (tax inc.) with no worry about depreciation might be appealing. Anyway, I'll probably check it out.

    So many deals out there now it makes it hard to decide. Most on cars I don't want, but with prices and payments so low it makes you wonder whether you should take advantage of the deals and spend less.
  • maximase2002maximase2002 Member Posts: 11
    Yes I agree with the whole resale issue it sucks for lack of better words, but the MM does make an excellent used car deal. I'm trying to pic one up right now myself. The 929 was RWD and those things were spacious and had some get up and go to them. They are right up there with the Acura Legend here in VA people buy them up and really improve on their looks
  • cayennered1cayennered1 Member Posts: 193
    Many of us here I think presumed that the Millenia has been discontinued because of the fact that the model is being replaced here in the US by the 6.

    Well, this is not true. An October 9, 2002 press release by Mazda has just announced a new luxury package for the 25M (2.5 V6) model of the Millenia. It includes a Bose stereo and navigation system. Also two new paint colors one of which is the silver from the Atenza. If nothing else the continued manufacture of the vehicle should bode well for parts availability down the road.
  • mustangdrewmustangdrew Member Posts: 38
    Here is the link to article cayennered1 refers:


    http://www.mazda.com/publicity/public/200210/1009e.html


    However, it says only in Japan. If they are still going to make it, why not still import it here? Or is this going to be another RX7 thing that will be pulled from the US?

    If Nissan can get away with the Altima and Maxima, why shouldn't Mazda try?

  • mustangdrewmustangdrew Member Posts: 38
    After a lot of patience and a little luck, here is a link to the Millenia in Japan with the nav system. (I can't read Japanese)


    http://www.millenia.mazda.co.jp/interior.html


    I like the shape of the Japanese steering wheel better. I don't think they have the Miller Cycle engine available there though. Wouldn't it be cool if everyone (esp the Mags) had been wrong and they did continue to bring it over here and with some new goodies?

  • billyperksbillyperks Member Posts: 449
    I will be the first one on line.
    However, just to add some improvements-
    Make it 3.0 engine with around 220-230 HP.
    Interior cabin a little more spacious.
    Thats all.
  • fwatsonfwatson Member Posts: 639
    Too bad Americans have gotten so addicted to excess horsepower. MM is truly a great car otherwise. With 50 more hp it would have sold very well here.

    OTOH if it had been selling well I wouldn't have gotten the bargain basement price I got on mine.

    If they continue it in Japan though it does bode well for parts availability even if it is necessary to order them from Japan.

    Mine looks identical to the one on the home page of that link, minus the front plate. They also have a reflector stuck on the front fender, must be a Japanese requirement. Glad mine doesn't have it.

    http://www.millenia.mazda.co.jp

    I don't care for the tan and gray interior though.
  • lyons4lyons4 Member Posts: 21
    I just feel like venting because I have a brand new MM P-SE 2002 of which I purchased this April.First thing; one of my 17'' tires which only has 5700 miles it has a screw in the wall of the tire.I called around & looked on the net & that is going to cost me $300 to replace.I taken my car bck to the dealership 2 days ago & the serviceman just called me because they have to replace the airbag assembly.I had taken the car to them two times before.That part I'm told is on bck order & the have it know less then a week.So if your airbag light is blinking look out.They have given me a new jetta to drive.I'm just pissed off.
  • amathewamathew Member Posts: 3
    Ok - Based on Posts, I do not have to replace my timing belt on my 98 Millenia until 105,000 miles even though it says 60,000 in the manual. Some say run it until it breaks because you just need a tow, it will not impact the engine if the belt breaks. The engine will just not run.

    I can use synthetic oil, and it should not be a problem. I have used it for the last 3000 miles, and it is still running fine. I hope to match the 12K miles between changes that I get out of my BMW.

    I have the same problem with the check engine light that many of you posted about. I just ignore it, and it usually goes off in a day or two.

    Has anyone other than 95 owners run into a problem with the waterpump? I am just trying to prepare for this. It seems that whenver I go in for a big repair, something else will go wrong with the car so I am reluctant to do much preventive care other than oil and spark plug changes and tire maintenance.

    The oil change place is pushing for a Radiator flush, and a transmission flush. Anyone had any of these things done lately. Did you have any other problems pop up afterwords??
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