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Comments
Audi A4 1.8T
Honda Accord v6
went neck to neck with a 99 Acura TL
All these races were on the 95n,God to honest truth.
Also the Edmunds reviewers show this car no respect at all,check out the review for the 2002.
Finally I think this car looks better than any Accord,Camry,Maxima,etc etc.
tomekk, Camcord?, LOL, very nice.
32600 miles on my 2000 Millenia S, still enjoying every second driving it.
02 Camry is so bland, I wonder what 03 Accord will look like.
billyperks,
I have 01 Millenia S. Initially I put deposit down on a P, but after driving the S and listening to the supercharger whine I decided to upgrade the next day. The P model is slower - you have to really step on it and keep the engine cooking although it is perfectly adequate. But S is in a different league. Go test drive one - see for yourself. Those cars you beat - especially Audi A4 1.8T and Acura TL - I'm not sure if they tried really hard...
Tomek
4K miles on 01 S in 3mos
Fisrt thing I noticed is that the Mazda had a more luxurious looking interior, smoother ride, and way more room in the back seat and trunk. I also couldn't help but notice that you sat much lower in the Mazda but the seats were far less supportive. I especially liked the Escaine (fake) suede in the Lexus over the real leather of the Mazda. Probably because it holds you in place much better during hard cornering. The IS had superior handling as far as feed back, tracking, and turn in. Also, the E-shifter on the IS did a better job of allowing me to control the engine rpm and shift points. The hold feature on the S auto worked pretty good. But, it didn't responed as quick as the IS auto and the buttons on the IS steering wheel were easier to control once I got the hang of them. The S engine seemed nearly as powerfull as the IS but it wasn't as responsive at lower rpm's. The S was quieter on the highway, especially with the sunroof popped or fully open.
Overall, I like the Millenia S. It provides a great ride, decent engine, high content, and in a nice looking package. But, I loved the Lexus. Not surprising since I lean more towards the sports side of the sport/luxury equation. The IS had a nice interior, sporty looks, great transmission, and superlative handling. I must say a new S is a raging bargain compared to the Lexus if one can be had for the prices I'm seeing quoted on this list. The Lexus dealer was asking about 29K for the IS and 25K for the S. He didn't say much when I mentioned that one could buy a new S for not much more. I suspect they would let the S go for WAY less then what they're asking. But, that is probably not true for the IS. Anyways, enjoy your cars.
BTW, I'm 6'3, so the IS is kind of a tight fit for me... I test drove it 6 months ago and loved handling etc. - didn't like the price and how small it was inside.
Tomek
Did this writer consider the car doesn't sell at sticker? Infact, that it sells way below invoice and is priced like a camcord? Or did this pricing happen recently, before the article? I feel sad after reading such articles about the millenia :-(
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/comparison/articles/46528/article.html
I have also noticed some contradictions between these two articles. 0-60 is given as 8.2 in one article, 9.1 in the other (temperature difference? - test results should be adjusted for conditions, otherwise the aren't very useful).
In the mini-suv they call XTerra's 210 HP "impressive" - in Millenia's review it's "adequate". Bias? I think so.
Check this out: http://www.canadiandriver.com/testdrives/01millenia.htm
Tomek
I think if Edmunds did a TMV comparison, the Millenia would shine a lot brighter.
I live in MA close to Boston.
Good luck with negotiating your deal!
Tomek
My old car is a 1995 Olds 88, and there is a noticably firmer ride with the Mazda, but it is pleasant, very well damped, and quieter than the Olds. It is also far more pleasant to drive with one exception. The automatic transmission on the Olds is totally flawless, where the Mazda has noticable shifting, sometime hunting a little under some circumstances. Is this also the experience of other Millenia owners?
Other than the transmission, the performance is flawless, as is the fit and finish. It drew many admiring comments from others, and my sister wanted to take it from me.
My low gasoline milage was 21.7 in combination city/local highway driving, with a high of 27.5 on one interstate run. Overall, I averaged 26.3 over the entire trip. I find that very acceptable. It used 1/2 quart of oil in the first 2300 miles. After topping the oil off, it appears to have used no more than 1/8 quart in the last 1400 miles. No problem there. I have run 87 octane (regular unleaded) gasoline from day one, with no problem of any kind. No ping, and I do not feel there was any decrease in performance from the 93 octane the dealer had put in it. At least I couldn't detect any.
There has been some discussion about the possible lack of power with the 2.5 liter V/6 engine, but it has very acceptable performance compared to the 3.8 V/6 in my Olds, with only needing to apply a little extra throttle under especially trying conditions. It is far from a slouch in the power department. The torque is less than the Olds from a standing start, but very acceptable. Passing at any speed was very good.
I bought this car for $21680, the price of a low line Camcord. There is absolutely no camparison to them. This is obviously a vastly superior car overall.
Well, this isn't a road test forum, so I will cut off there.
If any of you can fill me in on the transmission shifting situation, I will appreciate that. From what I have read, it is a Jatco, the same as Camry, Accord and possibly Maxima and other Japanese brands use. If the shifting is normal, I am fine with that. I just need to know if it is something that needs checked.
One more comment. The Michelin MXV4 tires were somewhat noisy for about 2000 miles, but have quieted down to a decent level.
However, I have come across other messages, such as the following that concerns the "S" models shifting.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"So, there is nothing we can do about the strange shifting habbits of Millenia S other than use the hold button and manually run it via all the gears?
The slugishness I get sometimes on the car drives me crazy. I have use the K/N drop in filter and noticed a nice little boost in performance.
Anyone have a shopping list of performance mods they have done. I know for this car they are very hard to come buy.
Scott"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This would indicate to me, that the unusual shifting is NOT confined to the "P" model. And due to the fact that the "P" and "S" seem to use different ATX's, would cause me to believe the shifting is caused by the computerized electronic control system, not the transmissions themselves.
I think I know the answer before asking this, but can the shifting pattern be reprogrammed, or a different "brain" be installed to change the feel of these transmissions?
Thanks in advance.
A number of aftermarket firms offer "shift kits" for various cars that, by changing some of the moving parts, reputedly improve the shift action. And there are custom computer chips available for some models. Whether any of this can be had for the S, I'm not sure.
Other than that I'd say that my S shifts very well under medium to hard acceleration. It's not the best in stop-and-go 'indecisive' traffic, when you go from 0 to 20 to 5 to 40 to 10 to 0 and so on. It's not bad, it's just not Lexus (or Chevy Venture) smooth. Again, I've read that pre-2001 vere much worse, and actually I remember reading a review talking about much better calibration for 2001. I'm not sure if the P model got recalibrated for 2001...
just my $0.02
Tomek
Quote:"It's not the best in stop-and-go 'indecisive' traffic, when you go from 0 to 20 to 5 to 40 to 10 to 0 and so on. It's not bad, it's just not Lexus (or Chevy Venture) smooth."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This is where I experience the indecisiveness too. Under other conditions, the shifts are very good. It does have a tendency to downshift at highway speeds, when the "Resume" on the cruise control is engaged, but I figure that is to compensate for the relativly small engine. That causes me no problem. Highway passing is very good. I am getting the impression the shifting is normal for the Mazda's. And as both Carpoint and Consumer Reports show the Millenia transmissions to be top rated in reliability in all recent years, I can live with the slight quirkiness.
Other than this one question, I have found my new "P" to be flawless, and after owning many cars in my 60 years, will say this is by far the most beautifully assembled and executed of them all.
Thanks to both of you for your help and opinions on the subject.
I have to say that I like my Millenia the best over 80mph (yesterday I had it up to 110 on an empty highway - smooooooth...)
:-)
Tomek
There is very little in the way of alternatives from the stock Michelins in the 215/50/17 size, www.tirerack.com lists 10.
If I look at 225/45/17, there's a much larger selection, 51 to be exact.
My question is this:
Can a 225/45/17 tire fit on to the stock rims properly, I have the chrome 17"?
Like I said, the selection at 225/45/17 is much greater and the prices are also better.
Thanks in advance and I love the car.
"I have to say that I like my Millenia the best over 80mph (yesterday I had it up to 110 on an empty highway - smooooooth...)
:-)"
-------------------------------------------------
While 100mph or so may seem crazy to some people here. There were several times on my recent vacation, that I found myself in that 100+ range. I agree with tomekk, that this car is incredibly smooth and happy at that speed. And the V rated Michelin's are rated at sustained 149, so obviously the car was designed for these speeds. On the other hand, my '95 Olds 88 gets nervous (slight vibration with tires recently balanced, and new brakes) at speeds of about 55, and anything above 75mph. The Millenia is totally smooth at high speed, but slightly jittery on a bumpy surface, at low speeds. Well damped, but noticable. They have totally different suspension tuning, and the Mazda's drivetrain is vastly superior in smoothness overall.
Guys/Gals don't get me wrong,there is nothing wrong with the Millenia,I am just stepping into a bigger car.Here are the few that I test drove-
LEXUS-GS 300
Audi-A6 2.7T
Acura 3.5RL
Jaguar S type 3.0 (jaguar went overboard on price)
Please help me out with the choices here-(NO BIAS COMMENTS PLEASE).
Coming back to the MILLENIA-personnally I think Mazda got left behind in terms of technology.When I was these dealerships and saw the Millenias competitons I really felt dissappointed that Mazda did not do anything to improve the car.
Here is the list of some of the features that the Millienia is lacking because of its out of date platform-
Navigation System
Tiptronic/E-Shift
More wood and leather:)
power sunshades
MORE HORSE POWER (IMAGINE A 2002 NISSAN ALTIMA 4CYLINDERS OUT RACING A MILLENIA P- THATS VERY BAD)
The list goes on, remember guys/gals I am not disrespecting the MILLENIA,the exterior looks will beat any of its competition,all I am saying is, Mazda has to get up to speed the Automotive World.
-------------------------------------------------
Here is the list of some of the features that the Millienia is lacking because of its out of date platform-
Navigation System
Tiptronic/E-Shift
More wood and leather:)
power sunshades
MORE HORSE POWER (IMAGINE A 2002 NISSAN ALTIMA 4CYLINDERS OUT RACING A MILLENIA P- THATS VERY BAD)
-------------------------------------------------
You ask "no bias", and none is intended.
The only ones of your complaints that have to do with the platform, are the Tiptronic, and the HORSEPOWER. The platform itself is highly refined, with 4 wheel independent, coil spring suspension.
I personally insisted on a car WITHOUT the items you listed as putting it behind the competition. Most would only ruin the beautiful elegance of the interior of my car. As I understand it, Millenia will be dropped after the 2002 Model, so obviously they are not going to make the changes you are suggesting. It all comes down to a matter of wants and needs. I drove '02 Camry, '01 and '02 Maxima and '01 Avalon, before buying the '01 Millenia P that I talk about in previous posts. They each have pro's and con's, but none had anything that could justify the huge difference in their prices as opposed to the great buy you can get on a Millenia. I keep my cars for at least 7 years, and do not trade them in, so depreciation is immaterial to me.
This car is not a hot rod, and is not intended to be one. But I do not think you can find any of the cars you mentioned at anywhere remotely close to the $21680 I paid for my "P" with three miles on the odometer. After 3800 miles, I am convinced I made the right choice.
You are apparently willing to take a very large jump in price, and that is fine if it is what you want. Enjoy your search, and most of all, enjoy whichever of those fine cars you ultimately choose.
Personally I'd test drive Audi and the Lexus and decide between the two - with my preference being the A6 2.7T; reliability won't be an issue for you if you're leasing for 3 years.
Good luck - Tomek
P.S. Today I was giving a ride to a business associate from Switzerland and for first 5 minutes he was complementing how nice my new car was, he was checking out the in-dash 6CD changer, the auto-tilt wheel etc. The he said "but those Lexus cars are awfully expensive, how much was it?" - ha ha ha, his jaw literally dropped when I told him it was a Mazda, waaaay cheaper than a Lexus.
It's a totally awesome looking car in my opinion, aggressively mean and modern, check out these pics
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=128418&page=1
and from Edmunds review
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/preview/articles/47610/article.html
This car is definitely my first choice to replace my 2000 Millenia S or maybe to be alongside my 2000 Millenia S (hope I can have enough money to have both). I'm sure they'll show this car at LA Auto Show in january. I can't wait.
BTW, julizio, yes a 225/45/17 will fit on Millenia's 17" wheel, but the ride is going to be a bit rougher, since the tire is thinner. If you don't mind that, it will look nice on your wheel, since the tire is wider and looks nicer.
The Millenia is definately a superb car and I still get compliments on my 1999 PEARL WHITE.Sorry if I offended you in anyway,I am just strecting my budget to a bigger car.Tomkek thanks for the advice.And for all you Millenia lovers "God Bless The Millenia".
Peace
Sorry you got the feeling I was somehow offended. I am not. My point, although apparently not well stated, was that comparing the Millenia to the cars you are considering, is a stretch, because of real world pricing.
While the Millenia is discounted very strongly, your choices will cost you multi-thousands of dollars more. They are all wonderful cars, but for those like me, who are looking for best value, the Mazda wins the battle. Given unlimited access to the big bucks, I would have chosen a 5 or 7 series BMW. But fact is, I paid less than half the price of the BMW, and still got a wonderful car.
If you have the money, enjoy the hunt for that dream car. I have more practical considerations, like being retired with a fixed income. I did have a chance to look the A6 over at a Florida welcome station, and frankly, the styling leaves me cold. Everything is relative.
Personally, I'd try to find something with the original aspect ratio of 50, but go a little wider - either 225 or 235 (didn't check availability/prices, as I have 35K miles or so before I have to worry about that), I wouldn't go with even lower profile like 45...
Anyway, the Dunlops SP 5000 (I think) on my S are sooo much better than the Goodyear Eagles (205/50-15 if I remember correctly, also a rare and difficult to find size) which I had on my 95 Passat GLX. Those things had very greasy feeling in the wet, forget snow. Dunlops so far are much better in the rain, and when it comes to snow - well, I'll know in 2 or 3 months.
Tomek
My reserve light comes on after about 300 miles.
Yesterday it came on at 310 miles, and I got 14.514 gallons in. The thing is that the pump started to shut off after 13.5 gallons, and the last gallon was really squeezed in. So, if only 17 gallons are usable, I was left with 2.5 gallons in the tank - which would be 50 miles or so from when the light came on.
I've noticed that some pumps shut off earlier with the Millenia - didn't have that problem with a Passat, don't have it with Chevy Venture...
My gas mileage - commuting to work seems to be 21 - 22 mpg (17 miles one way, sometimes 85mph, sometimes stop-and-go, 50% highway, 50% town traffic, rather heavy foot), on a highway trip I had about 24 doing 80+.
The replacement set is the Goodyear Eagles (stock size). So far, so good. It was odd that I was replacing the crappy Goodyears on my other car at almost the same time, but those 17" sets are still really expensive.
One shop wanted to sell me Pirelli's at some $275 a pop. The Goodyears were the cheapest in that size at about $120 per.
As explained to me by a trusted guy...all of the low profile tires are vulnerable to sidewall bubbles anytime a pothole comes into view. So I figure I'm just wasting money upgrading by spending any more than I have to.
Since my wife isn't taking corners at 50mph, she doesn't know the difference anyway.
Now I have some major squeeking comming from the left rear suspension. Probably a bad shock (or strut).
Overall, still happy with the car for the price I paid. Just wish the tranny shifted faster and when I want it to.
Bob
a Michelin Pilot Sport A/S which cost $206 each, Bridgestone Potenza RE92 $154/ea and Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 $183/ea. Does anyone has any experience with any of these tires?. I was hoping that the Dunlop SP5000 would have this size, since this is what the 2001 Millenia has.
Also, is it true that Millenia S supposed to only use Platinum Spark Plugs?
In any event you guys will know the outcome.
PS-I have an extra wheel with a small chip on the outter lip,got on delivery with the Millenia back in late 1998.I think someone at the dealership left it in the trunk and forgot to take it out.
Its the same 16" wheel that fits the 1999-2000 P model.Anyone intrested please let me know.You can have a full size spare,just buy the desired tire.
Bosch does make some REAL platinum for certain OE applications, but they are more expensive than the Japanese makes.
Also has anyone tried to put luggage in a Millenia trunk...just from looking at it it seems that fitting in luggage would be a problem. I know its 13 cubic feet but what are you supposed to put in there??? Marshmallows??? Please let me know your experience..as I pick up visitors from the airport several times a year.