BMW 5-Series Sedans

richardga73 · July 2007

Is there any reason for a person to get an xi unless there is snow and ice? Audi seems to think so however I have not found a comparison anywhere that although Audi makes a better than average car, weight seemed to always be a major complaint.I personally like a car to be as light as possible. I hate the current trend as cars inch there way toward and past 4000 lbs. It seems to me that an average car that is light is more fun to drive than a deluxe approaching 2 tons.

dhanley · July 2007

"Is there any reason for a person to get an xi unless there is snow and ice?"

I'd go beyond that; IMO, you're better off with RWD unless you need to climb icy/snowy hills, ESPECIALLY since you are concerned with weight!

andys120 · July 2007

you're better off with RWD unless you need to climb icy/snowy hills

I swapped an A4 Avant Quattro for a BMW 528i, one of the reasons I went to RWD is that I found out the hard way that
I could not climb the steep, snow-covered hill to my home with AWD unless I put on dedicated snows.

I decided if I was going to have to do a seasonal changeover anyway I might as well enjoy the benefits of lighter weight and much less understeer afforded by BMW's beautifully sorted RWD chassis.

Don't get me wrong AWD cars are a blast to drive in winter
and I might yet buy another but there's nothing like a nice RWD with no power corrupting the steering the rest of the year.

shipo · July 2007

I swapped an A4 Avant Quattro for a BMW 528i, one of the reasons I went to RWD is that I found out the hard way that I could not climb the steep, snow-covered hill to my home with AWD unless I put on dedicated snows.

Yeah, I found out the same thing back in the 1980s. Turns out that given the nose heavy bias of the Audi, if your would have turned the car around and backed your way up the driveway, you probably would have gotten up without winter treads. Of course it's all water under the dam at this point. Enjoy your 528i.

Best Regards,
Shipo

kcx · July 2007

Bruce,

I wonder if you resolved the car wash issue you brought up earlier

I am still waiting for my 528xi which was built on the 16th and got on the ship on the 18th

bruceomega · July 2007

kcx,

No, have not resolved that yet.

I washed the car once myself, but don't always have the time or energy for that.

I've taken it to some self-service car washes, where you drive the car in and sit there versus a system that pulls the car through. But the self-service washes don't do as good a job.

I had gotten spoiled by the full service car wash that gets the wheels really clean, dries the car thoroughly, and perhaps most appreciated, they clean the inside of the car, especially the inside window surfaces. I'm jealous every time my wife takes her X3 to the full service wash!

I've started looking for a good detailer in my area, and maybe I'll discover something through that chain.

Thanks
Bruce

bruceomega · July 2007

I am wondering if an Xi has an advantage in traction on wet roads, especially for the TT engine?

One plausible explanation for BMW citing a lower 0 - 60 time for the AWD version of the TT engine is better traction with all that power, and wet roads would exacerbate traction issues.

I've also seen posts by one of the moderators that races a Suburu saying AWD gives him an advantage on wet roads.

Thanks
Bruce

shipo · July 2007

"I am wondering if an Xi has an advantage in traction on wet roads, especially for the TT engine?"

That's a pretty fair bet that a 535xi will suck the doors off a 535i (SP or not) in the wet. That said, I don't usually find myself needing that kind of acceleration on wet roads, it can get you into trouble real quick. :P

Best Regards,
Shipo

andys120 · July 2007

Turns out that given the nose heavy bias of the Audi, if your would have turned the car around and backed your way up the driveway

Actually I tried backing up the road, it had four to six inches of heavy wet snow on it but it's a long steep grade
and the A4 was shod with Summer performance tires (Goodyear Eagle F1s) so it was just not gonna happen.

Don't get me wrong A4 Quattros are awesome in snow IF they
are properly shod. BMWs if properly shod will do just fine due to their inherent balance, but you already knew that.

shipo · July 2007

Ahhh, I thought you had All-Season rubber there (maybe I didn't fully read what you wrote). Yup, the Eagle F1s are pretty much worthless in even a quarter of an inch of snow (as are most performance tires). :P

Best Regards,
Shipo

andys120 · July 2007

Well see that's the thing, if you want to wear sticky tires for three seasons it makes no sense to put All Seasons on for ONE season, I concluded you might as well go with dedicated snows since today's snows don't have the noise and piss-poor dry cornering of old fashioned bias ply snow tires.

Between modern tire design, traction control and generally good balance most people would be amazed how good Bimmers can be in snow.

PS- one of the biggest drawbacks to Quattro AWD was that it eats tires. Those F1s were shot after about 15,000 miles!

I wonder if BMW's X-Drive is any better in that respect? I don't know if E60 Fivers have as good a weight dist. as my
E39 (53%F/47%R IIRC).

shipo · July 2007

"Well see that's the thing, if you want to wear sticky tires for three seasons it makes no sense to put All Seasons on for ONE season, I concluded you might as well go with dedicated snows since today's snows don't have the noise and piss-poor dry cornering of old fashioned bias ply snow tires."

The only real problem with modern winter tires for non winter driving is heat. It seems that the tires with the best bite in the snow and on ice also have the worst ability to withstand heat. Other than that, the Michelin winter tires that I had on my 530i were no slouch in the ride and handling department. ;-)

Between modern tire design, traction control and generally good balance most people would be amazed how good Bimmers can be in snow.

I hear that, our first winter up here in New Hampshire I managed to break my right leg and partially tear the foot off. As such I wasn't able to drive a stick, so, with a tear in my eye, I swapped the keys to my 5er with my wife. Her minivan allowed me to sling the cast over into the front passenger foot well and drive left footed. She on the other hand had to commute to and from work (just over sixty miles per day) during a winter that featured nearly ten feet of snow. The fact that she was born and raised in California and had very little experience driving in the snow (NONE in a RWD car) gave me pause. She never missed a beat.

The balance of my E39 530i 5-Speed was something like 50.3/49.7 (IIRC), which is a spot on match for the new 528i Steptronic (the 6-Speed is reversed at 49.7/50.3). The 535i suffers a bit coming in at 51.2/48.8 (Stick) and 51.8/48.2 (Step). What's interesting is that usually the V8 models have the heaviest nose, however, in the case of the current E90, the percentages split the numbers of the 535i coming in at 51.4/48.6 (Stick) and 51.7/48.3 (Step). Go figure.

Best Regards,
Shipo

jb_shin · July 2007

Tell me about it, on a very gentle incline that would have hard time rolling a ball downhill, my M5 with summer Dunlops could barely move itself when I was caught in snowfall about 2 minutes from the house.

shipo · July 2007

Hehe, yup. Try telling that to some folks who believe that AWD equipped cars shod with summer rubber can conquer all. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

richardga73 · July 2007

In a video on autospies an engineer from Infinity claimed that the new Infinity coupe was "edgier" than the 3 and that BMW had gotten "softer" over the years. Any truth to this, has BMW (I believe they were talking about the sports) in an attempt to appeal to more buyers made their cars more luxurious? I had a 2003 3sport which I thought was rough even though the road racers at Car and Driver(who would be happiest with go-carts)thought it was "compliant". Do you guys think the 3 and 5 sports are more luxurious than the previous models or are they just as "sporty"

richardga73 · August 2007

Anyone out there have a 5 sport? A recent one (2004-2008)? I am about to look for a new 5 and wondered how much difference in the ride is there between the sport and the non-sport.Thanks in advance.

carnaught · August 2007

Well, thus far, I've had my 535 for two days and have driven over 120 miles. My impression in short is: no disappointment!

The fit and finish are perfect (at least so far I have not found even one defect; give me time though.) Driving and comparing it to my '06 3 series, I have a welcome familarity, yet a more refined and luxury sensation. Driving it last night to dinner, I felt as if I had the luxury impression of a Lexus, yet a distinct sporting spirited feeling. And, that's what I wanted. The idrive, which btw, I never had a problem with, is another generation which means improved. For example, going from one given function to another, there are frequenly saved steps noted in comparing it with my '06 3 series. I note small things, the wheel is slightly padded and spins 360 degrees without the resistance as in the older one. This makes scrolling your cell phone book or other menu, much easier. The seats are among the MOST comfortable in any of the many cars that I've owned and it is easy to find the right configurations of seat, steering wheel and mirrors to satisfy one greatly. The lumbar support augments your feeling of comfort, my wife commenting that it aborted her muscular related backache. That said, if I had to order again, I would have ordered the upgraded comfort seats which are even better, more plush and great looking. (These are the same seats as on the sport package as a stand alone option.)

If I didn't emphasize it, this car is responsive, yet silky smooth in its execution. The electronic shift slushbox (my apologies to the purists) works great. It takes a BRIEF getting used to. When you reach your destination and stop, you push the "park" button and that's it, you exit the car. I must say that from the Logic 7 HK stereo to the comfort access and the Nav., everything has worked brilliantly so far with surprisingly good ergonomics, sometimes quirky in German cars.

Oh, and the worst gas mileage thus far has been 24mpg in mostly city driving.

That's it for now. More to follow.
__________________

wolfer2 · August 2007

Glad to here from you. Mine is due in a week. Can't wait. I was especially interested in your comments on the seats. I also opted to not get the comfort seats and have been wondering if it was a mistake given what everybody says about them. Sounds like the regular seats will be sufficient. Enjoy and keep us posted (I have to live vicariously for now).

carnaught · August 2007

Thanks. Please do the same and share your comments. BTW, what color combination and options did you get?

Compared to my first drive (which wasn't bad), I actually appreciate it more each time I drive it. The interior tweaks they did for '08 render the cabin more luxurious and more efficient.

You're really got a treat to look forward to. I know you'll love it.

wolfer2 · August 2007

Sapphire black with gray interior. Was seriously considering the natural brown interior but my wife talked me out of it. Xi, premium, cold weather, rear side impact, rear fold down, park distance, nav, Logic 7, ipod. No sport package, comfort seats, comfort access, HD radio, or HUD. Question whether I made the right decision on those. This is my first bimmer. Coming off a Ford Explorer, which is going to my son.

car_rm · August 2007

I have a 2005 530 with the sport package, while my friend has a 2007 without it (standard tires as well). There is a significant difference in the ride. His feels soft to me, not as soft as my wife's Volvo V70. I like the stiffer ride the sport package gives. I will be replacing mine next year with a 535 and will order the sport package as part of my options. They have taken the active steering out of the package and is now offered as a separate option. Given that the 04 and 05's are coming off lease, your dealer should have some with and without the sport package to test drive and compare.

Good luck!

hihomike · August 2007

Camaught,

I've had my 535i for about 2 months now, and I have to agree with everything you mentioned. I find the HD radio with logic 7 to be superior to the 07 system I had on my 530i. I don't know why, it just sounds crisper and more refined, especially for an audiophile like myself. The only noticeable difference is the transmission. I find that it is not as smooth as my 07 was. What I mean by this is it seems to "jerk" more when slowing down (downshifting automatically). I've gotten used to the electronic transmission, but the biggest and most impressive change is the power and torque in the engine. It's like driving a V8 with the smoothness and quietness associated with V8's. I have no regrets trading in my 07 for the new 08. The interior refinements are luxurious. I particularly like the memory buttons for radio stations (satellite as well as FM). Keep enjoying as I have enjoyed.

driker · August 2007

Does anyone have a sure way to get rid of this? I know it's a common problem. I just bought an 04 530I and this would have to be my only complaint. I recently took it to the dealer and they gave it their treatment ($80) but it only lasted a couple of days. I feel like the evaporator housing/coil need to be treated directly but I do not know how to gain access it. I know how to minimize the problem by turning the A/C off a few minutes before I turn the car off, but that only works once the mold/bacteria is destroyed.

richardga73 · August 2007

Thanks for yall's input. I guess it is a very subjective matter. Car reviewers seem to like a stiffer suspension, however, when you see what each one drives themselves it is usually a beater so the sports suspension might feel good for the 2-3 days they test it but living with it daily is another matter. Some days I feel like going on the twisties and somedays I feel like being in a cocoon(?). Can you have it both ways? I had a 3sport and I literally dreaded going over railroad tracks and asphalt repaired roads. But it took me awhile before that happened. Im going on 55 and I guess I like luxury more. The younger you are the more the stiffer suspension appeals? Is the regular 5 suspension enough to be fun and still be luxurious?

car_rm · August 2007

Before taking delivery of the 530, I had a 325 with only the premium package (taken back by BMW under the CA Lemon Law) and the dealer gave me a 325 coupe with sport package while I waited for the 530. My impression was that the coupe was fun to drive, but because of the shorter wheel base was harsher then what I have experienced with the 530. If you don't get the sport package, make sure you compare the standard seat to the multi-contour seats. To me, the standard seats with leather feel like sand paper against clothes. If you don't get the sport package, you will still really enjoy the car.

carnaught · August 2007

..........The younger you are the more the stiffer suspension appeals? Is the regular 5 suspension enough to be fun and still be luxurious?

I think so but then, I'm young.

bruceomega · August 2007

kcx,

Car wash issue is now resolved. After some research, I found another car wash that has no trouble with the X-Drive 5 series.

I called and talked with the manager, who was very helpful, and he assured me they could wash my 535Xi. When I showed up, the manager personally checked my car as it entered the wash to ensure there wasn't a problem.

The car came out without a hitch. It's a full service car wash and they do an excellent job. The manager of this car wash does not know why the former car wash has trouble with the AWD 5 series and won't wash them.

Thanks
Bruce

roadburner · August 2007

The younger you are the more the stiffer suspension appeals?

Well, I'm 50 and I have a 3 Series with the sport package; I also have a Mazdaspeed3 for my commuter sled. And when things get too dull I break out my 1996 Triumph Speed Triple. My guiding principle is:

Growing OLD is mandatory...
Growing UP is optional... :P

To answer your question, my wife drove a non-sport E39 528i for about four years and it was a very enjoyable car to drive. I soon threw away the mediocre OEM Michelin all-seasons and fitted a set of Kumho KH 11 Summer tires(I had Arctic Alpines on steel rims for the winter). With the Kumhos I could drive the car about as hard as I would want to- on the street anyway. That said, my wife and I prefer smaller cars, and she eventually sold it and bought a BMW truck(an X3, which is another story altogether). Look at it another way; 95 out of 100 US BMW owners exploit the capabilities of a non-sport Bimmer. How many do you think can utilize even 50% of the ability of a sport model?

sdg380 · August 2007

I've long been a proponent of the regular suspension in a 5-series, and I think a couple of factors are key.

First, here in the Midwest, our frost-heaved roads are junk, so there is precious little smooth asphalt to really enjoy the sport suspension--so the first question is how good are your local roads?

I would next note that compared to virtually all other mid-size sedans, the non-sport suspension on a BMW is pretty firm, so just because a little is good doesn't necessarily mean that more is better.

Are you doing track days? If so, the sport suspension would be great, but I doubt too many of us flog our 5's on a track (BTW, the mag. reviewers, frequently DO test cars at a track, so their affinity for sports suspension is understandable, not to mention that it's not their daily driver.

Of course, optimum sporting performance calls for performance tires, but outside of regions that are perpetually sunny, you've then got to contend with bi-annual wheels swaps--no big deal to many, but too much of a nuisance to me. (Any comments from somebody with sports suspension and all-season tires?)

Finally, it's not like the sports package is free, and I doubt you see too much of that money back on the far end of the deal--seems to me that it could even hurt trade-in value, like a stick shift, since it may limit the potential resale customer base (any comments from those in the know?)

My bottom line is when you buy a standard 5, you're buying one of the most versatile, capable sedans around, and the sports suspension narrows the focus in a way that detracts from versatility. Having said that, different strokes...

shipo · August 2007

"Of course, optimum sporting performance calls for performance tires, but outside of regions that are perpetually sunny, you've then got to contend with bi-annual wheels swaps--no big deal to many, but too much of a nuisance to me. (Any comments from somebody with sports suspension and all-season tires?)"

Depending upon where my next contract is, I'll be looking for an E39 528i or 530i with both a stick and SP. I live in New Hampshire and will most likely shoe the factory wheels with All-Season tires in the OEM size (235/45 R17) and then buy a set of winter wheels and tires for the snowy months.

"Finally, it's not like the sports package is free, and I doubt you see too much of that money back on the far end of the deal--seems to me that it could even hurt trade-in value, like a stick shift, since it may limit the potential resale customer base (any comments from those in the know?)"

Interesting comment. When I turned my 2002 530i SP 5-Speed in at lease end, the dealership (who doesn't like taking back lease cars they didn't originally sell) couldn't wait to get their hands on my car. Why? Because it was a nicely optioned SP (with PP, Premium Audio and Xenon) car with a STICK. The leasing manager said, "Do you have any idea how hard it is to come by a 530i SP with a stick? Usually the 5ers with a stick are strippo 525is (plural, not "is"). Oh yeah, we'll be keeping this one (as opposed to sending it back to BMW-FS to dispose of."

FWIW, I leased it through the ED program for forty two and change in 2002 and after I turned it in in 2005 they CPOed it in two days and put it on the lot for $36,999. They got $36,000 even for it, fully two thousand MORE than they were asking for an otherwise identical 530iA SP.

FWIW #2, I've been keeping an eye on the used car market for a year or so now and 528i and 530i SP cars with three pedals under the dash almost always carry a premium asking price over similarly speced cars with an Automatic transmission.

Best Regards,
Shipo

ny540i6 · August 2007

I guess I am at the extreme end of the spectrum (and I'm not that old... I think

)

I now have 125K on the clock of my E39 540I - Six speed manual, M sport package, complete with the 18 inch, low profile (35/40 aspect ratio) dedicated summer tires. I love the way the thing rides and I absolutely ADORE the way it handles. My only compromise is that I run tire pressures a bit lower than the door jamb recommends.

This car is most definitely my daily driver, all year round. I will say that I do notice a softer feel in the winter, when I have the 16 inch, 55 series rubber on the car, however I've rarely found the ride harsh or punishing, and yes, I spend a lot of time in Manhattan, complete with potholes. Is it Lexus smooth? Hell, no... but then, I never wanted Lexus.

kcx · August 2007

Bruce,

Thank you for your update! I am very glad that you found a car wash that works

My 528xi arrived last Wednesday (8/8/07), and I'll be visiting a car wash one of these days too

Do you have Comfort Access? I do, and if I remember correctly, I am supposed to leave the key in the ignition lock in order for the car to stay in neutral and not go into park after a certain period of time.

sdg380 · August 2007

"FWIW #2, I've been keeping an eye on the used car market for a year or so now and 528i and 530i SP cars with three pedals under the dash almost always carry a premium asking price over similarly speced cars with an Automatic transmission."

WOO-HOO! I was expecting to get hammered on a trade of my low mileage, non-sport '02 530, with stick (PP, xenon, CWP)--Shipo, you have given me hope!

And NY540i6, I'm sure your 540 is a real rock 'n roller, as I said, different strokes, I just don't feel like getting involved with wheel swaps, but guess that's just l-a-z-y--obviously a lack of commitment, ha!

richardga73 · August 2007

sdg380: great review! I agree with you that it seems like the repaving of roads and "patches" (which eventually sink at least an inch) due to new subdivisions trying to hook up their sewer systems give you a jolt even with a normal suspension. On Road Atlanta I drove a Porsche, Ferrari, and a 3sport at various times over the years when the Sports Car Club of America would rent it out for various weekends so the "hackers" like me could put it out there for a few hours. That's what I think the sports suspension is good for but for my likes I will try the normal suspension on lease until I eventually get tired of it like I do all cars! What I want to know is how in the world the 535 is just as fast as the 550? The 550 has 20% more hp and torque with the same auto transmission. I know the 550 doesnt have 20% more weight. Any one out there have any ideas? Is the 300hp-300torque in the 535 underated?

ny540i6 · August 2007

Sdg, I don't claim to be rational about the thing - lol.

I remember when I bought it... my dealer was busy trying to talk me OUT of the 540. I knew I did not want a 525, could not justify (or afford) an M5, had seen all the reviews touting the E39 530 as "the best car in the world," but really lusted after the 540i. She had me just about convinced.... higher insurance cost, fuel economy, better steering on the 530, better weight balance. I tested a 530 and liked it. We were on our way in to her office to complete the paperwork, and they had a 540 sitting at the front of the showroom... last thing I remember saying was "OK, I'm getting the 530, but can I drive that thing, just once?" Rest is history. Got out of the car a grinning idiot.

As for wheel swaps, for me that has nothing to do with the car - I've never used all-season tires, on any vehicle, except when I was very young, and could not afford a single new tire, much less four lol. Dedicated snows have always made sense to me. I remember when I used to do tire swaps - those were a pain. Wheel swaps are a breeze, comparatively, but then, I no longer change my own oil - Hmmmn, maybe I AM older!

bruceomega · August 2007

kcx,

Congratulations on the new car.

I do not have comfort access, but at the car wash I use you leave the key in the ignition. After vacuuming the interior, they drive it in to the starting point, then drive it out at the end to a work area where they finish up by hand.

Thanks
Bruce

sdg380 · August 2007

NY, that's a good story, I'm sure it's not the first time someone "just trying" the next model up did the trick. Hey, you like it, and life is short, what the heck.

You touched on a couple reasons I chose a 530, rack and pinion steering v. recirculating ball, less weight (under 3500#), a little better weight distribution, I like I-6's (so smooth), and I wanted a stick, but not the sport package, which would not have been possible with the 540. But don't you know I've lusted after a V-8! (As it is, I stopped commuting by car shortly after I got it, so now is just sits in the garage a lot depreciating.)

Since the miles are low, and it really is a pleasure to drive, I'll hang on until the model change in couple of years, and will then see which engines are offered--that's why other's comments on the new 535 v. the 550 are interesting.

And if somebody else changes the oil for you, well, that's not "old", that's successful!

topspin628 · August 2007

Is there any reason to go with the 550 over the 535? I do like the M aero package on the 550 but was told that I could add it to the 535 if I wanted. I don't like to make winter tire swaps if I don't have to so the all seasons on the all wheel drive probably make more sense but I have never had a problem with all season tires on a traction and stability control equipped car.

I would most likely load up the 535 with options so the price difference may not be that significant. Any reason to step up a bit further to the 550?
Did you recent 535 buyers consider the 550 and if so what turned the tide for you?

Thanks

carnaught · August 2007

Did you recent 535 buyers consider the 550 and if so what turned the tide for you?

Believe it or not, gas mileage was a major factor for me getting the 535.

richardga73 · August 2007

Gas mileage is a very important factor if the performance is approximately the same. I didnt think the regular 3 liter 6 engine got that great a mileage figure. I had a 3 liter 3 and didnt get that great a mileage (maybe 21, with the way I drive combination mileage) Anyone can get great mileage cruising down the interstate. With the turbo it has to get worst mileage. Again, how would a 300hp 300torque 535 be as fast as a 360hp and 360 torque 550?

dhanley · August 2007

Gas mileage varies a lot depending on driving habits. I get close to 25mpg in mixed driving in my 3-er, over 30 on the highway. In my experience, turbo cars are even more sensitive to driving habits; i hit nearly 40 in a turbo saab once, cruising on the highwaty, and my ex got close to single digits city driving in the same car.

topspin628 · August 2007

"Again, how would a 300hp 300torque 535 be as fast as a 360hp and 360 torque 550?"

According to the specs listed by BMW, the 550 is only .1 faster to 60.

sdg380 · August 2007

"Again, how would a 300hp 300torque 535 be as fast as a 360hp and 360 torque 550?"

Well, an extra 265 pounds is the principal factor.

From the web-site, 535 v. 550 (Step.):

535: 3703 lbs., 12.34 1bs./hp (0-60, 5.7 sec., 17/26 mpg)
550: 3968 lbs., 11.01 lbs./hp (0-60, 5.5 sec., 15/23 mpg)

With slightly better ratio of weight to hp, the slightly better 0-60 of the 550 is to be expected. But when you factor in 13% better fuel economy in the 535, the enhanced handling that results from less weight, and the $$ savings (something on the order of $7K), seems to me this becomes a tough choice--or is it obvious?

Any comments from those who have made this decision recently?

ny540i6 · August 2007

OK.... I have NOT made this decision recently, however I have driven both cars. IMHO, for regular street use, most horsepower over 300 or so is wasted... bragging rights is all it gives you. Most people do not actually do 0-60 flat out, every day, every time. In fact, most people are terrified of breaking something, so wringing the thing out to redline just ain't gonna happen.

I've made some Dinan mods to my E39, adding about 25HP. Is it faster? Yes it is - though I've only had it on a track once, ant it will bury the speedo now. Is it quicker? seat of the pants (or maybe lightness of wallet) says that it is a bit; reacts a bit more urgently, stuff like that.

For me, the 550 is "worth it" more to say that you have the big dog, rather than performance. I believe that BMW has closed the gap sufficiently between the 535 and 550 so that real world performance is not the differentiator any more.

topspin628 · August 2007

Their catalog has the 535Xi only .1 slower.

sdg380 · August 2007

"Maybe lightness of wallet"--ha, that's pretty good.

Prompts me to ask, did you have it dyno'd before and after Dinan to verify 25 hp?

And assuming an extra 25 hp, what was the cost in mileage? I've always wondered where the the extra hp from a chip or the like came from (assuming you haven't swapped mechanical parts--or have you?) I would guess that any percentage increase in hp would come with a similar percentage decrease in mileage, but maybe not?

roadburner · August 2007

I would guess that any percentage increase in hp would come with a similar percentage decrease in mileage, but maybe not?

In my experience I've found that a Dinan or Conforti chip/reflash does not effect the fuel economy- unless you find yourself enjoying the added power too often

On a naturally aspirated engine the extra power is found by optimizing the fuel metering and ignition advance to operate on 91AKI or 93AKI gasoline. This can sometimes even result in an increase in fuel economy. On a supercharged or turbocharged engine you can find considerably more power- just crank up the boost. That said, any increase in boost pressure must be properly engineered or the result will be holed pistons or other mechanical carnage.

sdg380 · August 2007

R/B, this is a topic I've often wondered about. I'm not saying these chips don't work, but as an ME, there's usually no such thing as a free lunch.

Is peak power boosted at the expense of mid-range? Are you saying that optimizing for one fuel grade is the source of the extra hp? Actually, with knock sensors on modern engines, I thought they were capable of optimizing performance for fuel grade. Why aren't the original ECM maps designed to offer this performance if mileage doesn't suffer (or is improved)?

I'm somewhat familiar with tuning techniques on two-wheelers, and from what I've seen, it's seems that almost always, with the widespread adoption of FI, any peak hp gains are only achieved with louder pipes and/or decreased low-end or mid-range performance (frequently detracting from driveability.) And of course I'm talking about strict dyno comparisons, not the "lighter wallet" effect noted above (ha!)

zoelman · August 2007

okay, i'm a new owner of a cpo 2004, 545i with sport pkg, so i pulled in too far parking and scratched the lower right hand faring underneath, down to the fiberglass or whatever it's made of.

is there anything i can do short of a paint job or replacing, both of which would be very expensive, that would help it look a bit better?

thanks,
newbie

ny540i6 · August 2007

SDG, I did have it dyno'd... looking for the report for the exact gains. I remember being quite surprised at the diff in stated horsepower and wheel HP. I can't swear to 25 - but I do remember it being over 20.

I have not seen a mileage loss - my changes were a mix of hard and software, including cold air intake, new software, new, freer flowing exhaust. I stayed away from changing out the throttle body - the words "High flow" and fuel economy just did not go together for me lolol.

I also swapped out the clutch for a Dinan unit - less reciprocal mass, so it revs cleaner, faster. I sometimes wonder if that change alone would have been enough, but the package works well, and allows me to stick the "DINAN" on the back of the car (if I ever get around to it)

BMW 5-Series Sedans

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