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As for the decision about which model, I extensively looked into both the 330 and 530, and decided on the latter. I found it much more comfortable (no, I'm not an old man), nicer ergonomics and features, and nearly as fast and nimble (it's only 180 pounds heavier). If the money was a serious issue, I'd be happy with the 330, but I was more impressed overall with the 5.
On the subject of transit time, I was under the impression that it was only four weeks from drop off in Europe until delivery at the local dealership. Could this be because I am in the NYC area?
Best Regards,
Shipo
I was specific in my statements regarding handling and power as it relates to autocrossing, especially on the LS board. As the founder of the LLSOC it would be pretty stupid for me to not champion the car, as it would be pretty stupid for the BMWCCA president to champion a Lincoln.
I am not criticizing the 5 series, but I would hope that there is enough open-mindedness to realize that other people may not necessarily consider that it owns the title of the Ultimate Driving Machine, outside of the M5, which truly deserves the title. I was encouraging my membership to get out and try autocrossing and letting them know that they could compete against a 540 on equal footing. Period. And that was all I was stating here. I autocross a lot. I test drove both the 540 and the LS extremely hard at the limits and decided that, for me, the 540 wasn't worth the extra money for what I wanted the car to do.
Modifications to the car were as follows:
1. New intake snout, cold-air intake and gutted-out airbox. Cost: $15.00
2. Borla Exhaust: Cost $680.93
3. No computer chip modifications or engine modifications.
4. 18x8 Voxx MGR wheels with Michelin Pilot Sport 245/45/18Z tires: $2,500
5. Replacement Sport shocks from Lincoln: $240.00
Grand Total: $3,435.93
On top of the $35,500 I paid for the LS-8, that is under $40,000.
I think the American cars in general are getting much better than what they used to be. It may proved to be a good competition against Japanese and European cars, given the pricing point. Long term reliability and durability may have to be proven, but otherwise I think cars like LS and Z06, 2 of the few American cars I would consider, are headed in the right direction. For some people, especially most of us on this list here (I think) would agree that the higher cost on the BMW is justified, but for some perhaps it isn't, as you've put it.
As for the autocross comment, I personally think it is hard to compare the different cars with different drivers, etc. since so many things can effect the results. Where do you draw the line, even with the same driver, to make them truly in equal footing? Granted, they both have the similar selling points-power, luxury, and sportiness. At the end of the day, to me the driver is the most important part of racing followed very closely by the car (power, handling, braking).
Since I do all my own work on my car I wouldn't know what the cost would be to have it done in the shop nor do I care about whether the warranty is affected since I'm out of warranty and racing isn't covered under warranty anyway, though I know where you're attempting to go with this as to justifying the total price compared to your 540.
Keep in mind that a decently loaded LS V-8 with Sport Pkg and AdvanceTrac (their stability control system) along with some other options likely to be found on units in dealer stock, will probably push the MSRP around $40,000. And that V-8 cannot be had with a manual transmission for any price from Lincoln! The more apples-to-apples new price comparison might be 530i to LS V-8. The published stock performance figures comparing 530i manual to LS V-8 automatic favor the 530i. LS V-8 0-60 mph in mid-7 seconds.
I like BMW's, nothing against them, but for me, the LS fit the build with more room in the trunk and rear seats. And it was cheaper, so I got what I desired. And I do believe that many a BMW drivers can take me out on an autocross, but I can take many out as well in the LS. It's more than just the car and mods, it's the driver too.
The American cars do have a long row to hoe. And all I'm attempting to do is present evidence that they are getting closer. BMW built it's reputation on excellent standard bearers for the performance sports sedan. The 5-series is a fine automobile and justifiably so. It is a dream car for a lot of people. Lincoln doesn't have a performance image that would make people dream of a LS unfortunately. It's a new vehicle and in some ways (especially in the dealership area) falls short of BMW. But that doesn't make it any less of a contender. It's a new model. Will it make it? I personally would be tickled pink to have an American car company model able to compete in all aspects with the best of the world.
I'm not attempting to change anyone's mindset or convince any of you that a LS is the equal of a BMW. It won't happen. All I ask is that you keep an open mind.
Sorry for taking this much room on your board. I will cease and let riez enjoy himself without any additional responses.
Competition, both on the corporate and individual levels, improves the product/driver. I think it's called the market-driven system in the first case and learning in the second.
As for me, I'd take a 540 in a heartbeat if the prices were similar, but unlike Brian I have the V6 (since you can't get a manual any other way), which is many thousands of dollars less than even a used 540 (new enough to get a warranty long enough to soothe my concerns about reliability and "breathtakingly expensive" repairs).
Nice FWDer like 300M isn't bad for price and offers great interior room and trunk space. But its platform has some inherent limitations. The 5 Series and LS are RWD with near 50/50 weight distribution. 540i and 530i allow manual transmission; LS V-6 does, too, but not LS V-8. Useable interior and trunk space is quite similar between 5 Series and LS. The 5 Series has the wonderful space-saving multi-link trunk hinges, which really increase daily trunk useability.
No one is trying to nitpick anything. My 540i manual is an amazing car. The 4.4L V-8 is unbelievable. 5 Series is consistently given the highest kudos by C&D, Automobile Magazine, etc. How many times has LS made C&D's 10 Best List? Or Automobile's All Stars List? Both the '97 5 Series and '00 LS were Motor Trend Car of the Year winners (with LS-derived T-bird now winning for MY '02).
$33,020.00 – 530i via ED (ED Invoice)
$00,645.00 – Destination Charge
$00,000.00 – Black Sapphire Paint
$00,000.00 – Black Leather Seats (Included in the Premium Package)
$02,805.00 – Premium Package (Invoice)
$01,955.00 – Sport Package (Invoice)
$00,425.00 – Xenon Headlights (Invoice)
$01,020.00 – Premium Sound (Invoice)
$39,870.00 – Sub-Total
$01,400.00 – Dealer Profit (Passport BMW)
$41,270.00 – Vehicle Price
$00,098.10 – Luxury Tax (calculated for 2002)
$00,769.98 – Sales Tax ((41,270 – 28,437) * .06) (See Note 1 below)
$42,138.08 – Financed Amount (See Note 2 below)
According to a lease calculation program, the monthly payment should work out to $529.12 for a 36-month 15K per year lease, assuming that I have not missed anything.
Note 1: I calculated the residual as 60% of the MSRP from a dealership, which is $47,395.00 for the above car. In New Jersey, sales tax is paid on the difference between Vehicle price, which is $41,270.00, and the residual, which is $28,437.00. I used a residual of 60%, which according to my understanding is conservative for a 36-month lease with 15K miles per year.
Note 2: I will pay for the Title and License separately.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Thanks in advance.
I am shopping for a 2002 530i with pp, xenon, premium sound, heated wheel, automatic, cold weather. MSRP is $47,120. Dealer has offered $2,000 off. The lease payment for 36 months is $633 with both the 9% tax and the $525 assignment fee included in the cap cost. Not great, but the high residual (63%) and low money factor (.00190)are attractive. The residual will decline further into the model year, and who knows what the money factor will be next month. Have you looked at the A6? You can get into a 2.7T for about the same dollars and a 4.2 for about $50 more per month.
I haven't looked at the A6. I don't really like the looks of it as much. How do you think it compares? I am planning to look at the GS300 also.
See URL below for info./new look of the 5 series.
http://www.bmw2002.co.uk/news.htm
Best Regards,
Shipo
BUT, I'm confused about something. The lease calculations shown on Edmunds Advice section (which I used to calculate my payments) show sales tax being levied on the interest payments. You did your calculation taxing the pre-interest amount. I doubt this would make a big difference but I'd like to know your MF so that I can see why I am paying so much more for so much less.
The monthly number of $529.12 has the sales tax rolled into the financing, if I pay the $769.98 up front (just as valuable of a write off for my business as a lease payment), then my payments drop to $506.04.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Tires: If the faster tire wear and higher price of the 17" Ultra high performance tires scare you away from the sport package, maybe going with a longer wearing/quieter tire that gives up some handling/traction would be a better compromise. They're cheaper in many cases, and you'd still handle better than a 16" tire equipped non-sport. You don't have to spend $1000 on a set of tires if you don't want to.
540i vs 530i: I'd think the 0-60 time of the 540i would be better than the .75 seconds difference a salesman told one of our posters. But power is more than sprint times, anyway. The V-8 probably has a lot more easy to get at torque. That said, new, I'd buy a 530i. Better shifting, less expensive to buy and operate, and theoretically better steering. But I wouldn't buy a new $50,000 car. Too high a depreciation hit for anyone but very long term owners.
REPAIR COSTS: The various rationalizations to the contrary, I think a German car will cost substantially more to fix than a good Japanese brand. I don't know about Honda, but a BMW catalytic converter goes for $800 installed. And there are two of them. They commonly go out at under 100K according to my mechanic. One of mine did on my last 540i. It was luckily just under the 80K mile emissions warranty. The gauge cluster on my '98 is starting to lose digits at 64K. This is almost exactly the same mileage as it went out on my '97. That's $700 if out of warranty. I doubt Honda or Toyota replaces many of these. I get "check brake lights" or "check coolant" messages every time the car is started, despite these items being checked by a mechanic and bulbs changed. Not a huge big deal...UNLESS you want to sell the car. Then watch the buyers run away. But no car is perfect. My Toyota Tundra just had the check engine light come on at 28K miles.
So yes, expect to spend a lot more fixing this car. With the new breed of affordable and reliable but now higher performing cars starting to arrive(Altima, Maxima, Infiniti G35, Passat(w/ mods), etc) I'd take a hard look at one of those. They will cost you $200 or more a month less to operate. Past a certain point, I'd rather have the money for other things.
Same is true about the monthly lease cost. The best information comes from someone who recently leased a 530i with similar options (specifically what money factor and residual values were used).
BTW, here's the link to that page:
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/leasing/articles/43093/article.html
As for your list of alternatives (Altima, Maxima, Infiniti G35, Passat), they're all competent (front-wheel-drive) cars, but certainly not in the same league as the 5-series. I have a Passat, and have driven the Maxima and new Altima, and will be picking up a new 530i in 2 days. It depends on how discriminating a driver you are; if you like a controlled, comfortable drive, you're right, any one of these will do. But if you want an incredibly well-balanced, high performance driving machine, BMW is in a class by itself, and you find justifying the extra costs easy.
Over in the leasing questions forum, I received an answer from a poster named brentwoodvolvo, who I believe used to be a new car dealership owner. He gives the run down for each state, although he indicates that N.Y., which I believe is shipo's state, is rather confused about their policies.
Also, I found this site:
http://www.leaseguide.com/lease09.htm
In Texas, where I live, lessors are required to pay sales tax on the entire price of the vehicle!
The image problems with BMW started long ago, and unfortunately have continued. Back in the days when I had a BMW 2002 (the car, not the model year for you philistines , the 320i was the replacement, and uniformly had the biggest collection of yutzes and yuppie snobs, most of who couldn't shift properly to save their lives let alone drive right. The true enthusiasts just rolled their eyes and formed their own clique, eventually leaving the club and starting an unofficial one just to be rid of the presence of the obnoxious yuppies.
I'm not sure what image problem you're talking about looking at the sales figures BMW seems to be doing just fine. They may have an image problem with the Pick Me Up Truck crowd, but I'm sure BMW execs aren't losing any sleep over it. Probably not losing a lot of sleep thinking about the LS either. Now if you're talking about the A4 you may have a point.
At any rate, we've talked about the LS enough in this discussion it seems to me. If anyone wants to continue, let's meet up on the Comparisons - Sedans vs. Sedans board.
Thanks.
Pat
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Sedans Message Board
div2. The eurobuyers site indicates that "If your car is built after March 2001, you might need an extra bracket piece". Did you encounter this with your installation?
Steve at EuroBuyers.com is a good guy. Great price, great changer; just make sure to check the orientation switch to "vertical" before installation, to avoid potential CD skips.
Installation is a snap (about 15-20 minutes)
I also have a 2001 5-series, and it was a piece of cake.
Talk to Steve, let him know the year of your car, and if it has NAV or DSP. He'll know exactly what pieces you need
Good luck!
Although I don't have the sport package, I can't be worried about road conditions when I have to be somewhere, so I just put 4 snow tires on (Michelin Pilot Alpins) and am now waiting for some white stuff to try them out on. I can tell you that on dry pavement, they lose grip faster than the regular tires. Other than that, the ride of the car doesn't seem more harsh or noisy.
Has anyone noticed the following - backing out of a parking space, and then pulling the steptronic into Drive, the transmission seems to "jerk" a bit more than I would expect.
9500 miles and looking forward to every new mile.
Driving has never been so rewarding. Of course, you could say that too if you had spent the 4 prior years in a 1992 Camry.
I have actually started driving with the parking lights on during the day, because the illuminated rings around the headlights are the coolest looking things. I got out of the car one day and a guy was commenting to me on how different they were, and he then reminded me that I spent alot of money to get those lights. True, but worth it.
The musty smell from the air conditioner is virtually ignored by the dealer. Oh. They may address it the first time, but after the third time you bring it in, they will tell you to put your heater on.
The sticky gas pedal. BMW is working on it, or so I hear. No fix available yet to us owners.
Noisy fan. Hmmmmm I like the BMW but I am not blinded in love by it. The nagging problems allows me to see other autos and wonder.... are they without nagging problems?
Fight like heck to get the dealer to address. If one won't do it, try to find a better dealer. If that fails, try to work with BMW USA to see if you can get resolution.
Use this and other boards (e.g., roadfly's bimmer.org) to see what problems and solutions others have had in similar cases. Good luck.