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BMW 5-Series Sedans

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Comments

  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Never mind, I found it. On the 530i (where my chart came from), the SP is $2,300, the SP on the 540iA is $2,800.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • zubazuba Member Posts: 58
    What is MACO and why do you need training on a ED BMW?
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    OK, here is what I have come up with...

    Negotiated price: $53,405.00 ($1,400 dealer profit)
    CA State Sales Tax @ 7%: $1,343.53
    Luxury Tax: $462.15
    Gas Guzzler Tax: $1,300.00
    Total Lease Price: $56,510.66

    Residual: $34,212.00

    Assuming typical lease initiation costs, my calculation comes to between $850 and $870 (depending on the money factor that your dealership offers you).

    Hope this helps.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • patellipatelli Member Posts: 24
    You not add tax to the lease price... it is added to the payment. training is a fee some southern california dealers try to add to the car it is about $180.00. This is training for the dealer not the buyer.
  • patellipatelli Member Posts: 24
    I have a lease calculator in Excel.

    It amazes the dealers that I can calculate a lease accurately. It has saved me thousands over the last few cars I bought by catching those little "mistakes" the dealers like to make on leases when they add in a few bucks they know the average lease consumer will not be able to spot.

    Please contact me off-line at ehstone@patelli.com for more info on it.

    -Patelli
  • bs530bs530 Member Posts: 5
    The book says you can't order the lumbar package with the sport package. The dealer didn't know. Anybody try to get this option? Shippo, nice job of getting your car a month earlier. I put in my ED order about 10 days before you, but I needed to wait for the BMW Car Club rebate to hit the 1 year anniversary. Ordered a 530 Black Sap./Grey SP,PP,CW,Step,PDC,Xenon and depending on the lumbar question, Maybe the comfort seats. By the way I used Euro Buyers, Steve Diamond, so far 1,500 over ED price. No need to even haggle abit.
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  • christophers1christophers1 Member Posts: 18
    The sales manager called and said that there is a $300 MACO and something about a $600 charge for preparing the vechicle. Is this a true cost or just another $600 in their pocket?
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Black Sapphire & Gray, same exterior as mine, I really debated about the interior, I like Gray as well, however, I just had to go with the Black. If BMW would have offered a dark sumptuous Burgundy, I might well have been tempted that way as well.

    Congratulations on your new ride.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    There is not much that you can do about MACO, and the $600, Hmmmm, I guess it depends on what "Preparing the vehicle" means. Is this the destination charge of $645, or something else?

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • patellipatelli Member Posts: 24
    MACO does not apply to ED. It does apply to US delivery. But, if you are paying anywhere close to MSRP it should be included. The prep is just extra gravy for them. Don't pay it.

    Thanks,
    Patelli
  • snagielsnagiel Member Posts: 750
    Unfortunately not. That seat configuration is only available on the M5. However, I find my 530's (with sport package) lumbar support well adjusted (although obviously it may be too much or little for other people).
  • pen101pen101 Member Posts: 238
    For comparison, my non-ED lease deal at Long Beach BMW for a 530i was $1000 over invoice. That price was lower than offers from 20 other dealers in the area. But be sure to carefully check their lease calculations.
  • patellipatelli Member Posts: 24
    Pen101,

    At Long Beach BMW what was your:
    money factor:
    acq fee:
    sec dep:
  • pen101pen101 Member Posts: 238
    I leased the car on 12/29/01, so MF was lower (0.0019) I put down 6 security deposits of $550 to lower MF to 0.0013. Residual at 3/36 lease was 62%. MACO was $400. Other than acq fee, no other dealer fees. I need to check to get you exact amount. MSRP was $46,195. Negotiated deal was $42,895. Monthly payment of $533. At end of lease I get $3850 back. Originally they structured the lease at 0.0023 MF and security deposits (at $650 each) to reduce cap costs instead of lowering MF. This was wrong. I had them change it to lower base MF to 0.0019 and apply the security payments to lower MF to 0.0013.
  • john01john01 Member Posts: 246
    above post is correct. I tried to get the same when we ordered ours and the sales guy thought it was possible, but apparently BMW AG said no. However, we were able to get the Active seat, which I understand is not available on US spec cars. (perhaps through Special order) We have the comfort seat and I love it. While I miss the lower thigh support on the sports seat, the aritculating upper back support is great for me. I always have a pain in the shoulder area after a long drive, and this one gives me a good support. I am taking a 10 hour road trip this weekend, so we will really put it to good use.

    One thing I did not try was trying to get the M5 seats on our 530. It may be possible as a special order.
  • christophers1christophers1 Member Posts: 18
    No the destination charge is already in the price, this I was told is to prepare the car for sale. He claimed it was a hard cost to them.
  • 530bmw530bmw Member Posts: 130
    You should not let the dealer charge you for doc fees or prep fees. To me both costs spell "rip off" and I always refused to pay it in the past. A good dealer will not charge you for neither fees but an unscrupulous one will try to charge more. In MD, the maximum allowed by law is $25 for doc fees, however, in VA where I live there is no law for that. So, the VA dealers set doc fees as high as $500. If you refuse neither one and willing to take a walk I think your dealer will agree to it, based on your postings you are lucky that the dealer did not charge you for admission to go in and talk to them. Good luck.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Hmmm, well the prep fee sounds totally like "Bull Salt", "fixed fee", yeah right, NOT. If it was a fixed fee, every other dealer in the U.S. would charge it too, and I can assure you, they do not.

    If it is a "Fixed Fee", have them show you the invoice from BMW and point out said fee. You will see the MACO, I am quite sure, however, that the "Prep Fee" will not be there.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • jim52jim52 Member Posts: 161
    The dealer I'm working with says their "prep fee" is $279. He said it is the cost of getting the car ready for delivery to the customer. He said that they have to do a whole series of things to the car after they receive it from BMW. I tell them its just another overhead cost they need to manage such as their electricity but they also don't want to budge.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    find another dealer or talk to the sales manager. I'm sure you've agreed to a car with a reasonable profit from the dealer. Tell them if they want to charge you $279 for a "prep fee," then you will lower what you will pay for the car by $279 so they can charge you that "prep fee."

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • jwilson1jwilson1 Member Posts: 956
    christophers & jim, I know you've put a lot of work and time into the sale up till now, but if you bite on this 'Bull Salt' (love it), you're doing a disservice to all the rest of us as well as yourselves. When, in the past, I've had dealers try to tack on things like this (pin-striping was a fad for awhile), I didin't go back. Instead, I called and said I'd prefer to do business where people didn't treat me like an idiot, I didn't need the car that fast (lie usually), and that I was oging to (fill in name of competitor) that evening after work.

    Usually, but not always, they called right back and there was no more "Bull Salt." Sometimes they even apologized! Which they should. Maybe I've got too much pride, but I'd rather drive a Kia than have them think that I'll hand over cash and they don't even have to mug me to steal.

    Take care.
    Joe W.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    That you still have to put up with this kind of bull salt when you're buying a car in the $36,000 - $60,000 range. I guess maybe they figure that these people are paying so much for their car, what is a few hundred bucks more?

    I remember I went to visit a friend in Greensboro, North Carolina a few years ago (1998). We were walking around the lot of the local BMW dealer over there. Every car on the lot had a $475 Enviornmental Protection Package added on to it.

    The best advice I can say is stand up guys! Don't take their salt!

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • jim52jim52 Member Posts: 161
    We actually haven't agreed to a price yet so tecnically they aren't trying to "tack it on". I said I wanted to pay 1500 over invoice. They are saying that their invoice is $479 higher than what I say because of 200 MACO and 279 prep fees. So their 1500 over is the same as 1975 over "my invoice number". I offered to split the 279 with them and haven't heard back yet. At this point I'm getting tired of the process and am ready to move forward. When I started this I said I'd be satisfied with 2K over invoice (also 2k under MSRP) and that's where I'm at. I can't justify dragging this out much longer (and risk not having a car when my current lease expires 4/25) for a couple hundred dollars or $4-$6 per month. Besides, residuals and money factors change tomorrow (equate to $20 more per month). I know I can lock in by getting approved for credit but I'd prefer to have the whole deal in writing by end of today.
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Member Posts: 956
    "I'd prefer to have the whole deal in writing by end of today."

    So would they.

    (Now I'll go back to lurking.)

    Take care.
    Joe W.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Just checked Owners Circle, my 530i, which I ordered 9 days ago, is now scheduled for production. Tickets are in hand, Passports are up to date, but the Calendar still says 6.5 weeks to go. :-(

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • snagielsnagiel Member Posts: 750
    The anticipation is a killer, ain't it?

    I think I was borderline delusional the last week before I picked mine up...
  • christophers1christophers1 Member Posts: 18
    Just hung up the phone from the sales manager as you have said he came off the prep fee. The final deal is 1500 over true invoice.

    I can't express how much this board has helped in getting me what I find as the best deal locally. Again thanks for everything.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Snagiel,

    I hear ya!

    Christophers1,

    Congratulations on cutting a great deal on your new ride.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • jim52jim52 Member Posts: 161
    Man...they really came down. What part of the country do you live in? I can't seem to get the dealer to budge off of 1,975 over.
  • bs530bs530 Member Posts: 5
    Do I need to have my production and or VIN number? I should get some info on my 530 next week when their allotment comes in. I feel your pain on the waiting. I've been driving a Saab 9-3 for just over three years and should have gone BMW then. For now I just go by the local BMW dealer and drool until they chase me away. I'm headed over for a MAY 14th pickup. My brother and I both fly for the airlines, so being the romantic guy that I am, he gets to go over with me. Keep us up to date on your progress. I also herd that you need to book the tour of the factory. Something to look into if necessary.
  • snagielsnagiel Member Posts: 750
    You can register there as soon as you get your production number from your dealer (which should be immediately after he places the order through BMWNA).
  • multiplechoicemultiplechoice Member Posts: 113
    My friend in Seattle is also thinking about doing a ED. Any particular dealers that somebody can recommend?
  • christophers1christophers1 Member Posts: 18
    Well I went to do the paper work and feel okay about the deal.

    Again the car is a 530i with prem pkg cold wthr xenon and steptronic. Actual dealer cost 41920. Plus the 1500 profit equalling 43420.
    With 525 acq fee per our discussions here and a 112 luxury tax totaling 44057.

    I also got the money factor at .00205 and bought it down with 9 security deposits to .00115 at 550per. So it ended up with lease payments near 540 for 36 mths with one up front.

    BTW the sales manager said don't tell anyone about the deal which leads me to believe he slid something by me. But I think I did better than most in the Charlotte area.

    Thanks again to all that contributed.
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Member Posts: 956
    Isn't it strange. When a salesman or the SM tell you that you've struck a "good deal," you immediately wonder how much margin you left on the table. I think they do that just to make you feel bad!

    Take care.
    Joe W.
  • jim52jim52 Member Posts: 161
    Today I finally inked a deal. I ordered a 2002 530, Sterling Grey, black leather, auto, PP, SP, and xenons. I always found it helpful when people shared the details so here they go:

    MSRP - 47,470
    Invoice - 43,470
    CAP cost - 45,449 (Invoice + 1500 + 200 MACO +279 "prep fee")
    36 month lease
    10K miles per year

    Payment is 586 + 53 tax(9% in PA) = $639

    I plan to put down 9 extra security deposits which will lower the total payment to $565 per month. Waiting to find out when I can expect delivery. Thanks to everyone who helped.
  • matt00matt00 Member Posts: 32
    I am also looking to lease a 5 series (525). If I underdstand correctly, you put down $550 x 9 = $4,900 + first months pmyt $560 + $525 acq fee + $112 tax for a total of $6,097. Is this correct?
    I am tring to get an Idea of what would be a fair lease on a 528...Every dealer I'v been to is tring
    to rip me a new [non-permissible content removed].

    Thanks,
  • christophers1christophers1 Member Posts: 18
    That is correct, except it was $4950 +first month payment + acq fee $525 + tax on security deposits. I also made them give me a copy from Reynolds & Reynolds report to verify that this tax on the security deposit was a true tax. (Still not absolute but fairly sure) But the thing they may being trying to do is inflate the money factor or interest rate of the lease. It should be .00205 which if multiplied by 2400 equals the true interest rate. By buying it down nine times I ended with a .00115=2.76% rate.

    One other thing is the amount of the security deposit depends on your lease payment rounded to the closest $50 increment. (i.e. 460- is a 500 deposit) Again this is totally refundable! It also buys down your monthly payment, in my case almost $60 x 36 mnths= $2160, a fairly decent savings over a three year period if you can swing it.

    All this info came from prior posts from this site of which I am making sure to credit.

    Matt00, I also can figure the exact lease payment that you should expect to pay.

    Probably way more info than I ever cared to know but I will try to help all from my research and what I picked up here.
  • 530bmw530bmw Member Posts: 130
    When I bought my car, the finance guy showed me an option for leasing which I turned down. After seeing postings about leasing in TH, I remembered asking the finance guy about acquisition fee, which he said it is the same as GAP insurance. Do you guys agree with that, who sets the fee? I notice that it varies from car to car.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Hmmm, if the $525 (CAP Reduction) and/or the $299 (1st Year Fees) cover GAP insurance, I think that is was money well spent. I have never purchased GAP insurance on a lease before, and touch wood, I will never need to take advantage of it, however, I certainly am glad that I will have it on the 530i that I have on order.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    Every car I've leased (My '98 Explorer & '00 Saab) as well as every car my Dad has leased since 1991 (6) has had the GAP insurance included. I always thought it was essential (maybe just in NY). Hopefully none of us will ever have to take advantage of it. Why have you never purchased the GAP insurance before shipo?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    In your bantor regarding your aquisition of an ED 530i, you never mentioned a test drive? Did you drive a 530i equipped with a SP and all the other goodies you ordered? Maybe I missed it and I don't know what made me think about it. Maybe the cab that hit me yesterday knocked some sense into me;)

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,146
    Is anyone out there participating either in a formal or informal "car-sharing" deal? I'm looking for folks (other than spouses) who co-own luxury vehicles. If you fit the bill, or know someone who does, I'm hoping you'll contact me by Wednesday, March 6 with your contact information, the type of vehicle you share, and your city and state of residence. Thanks much!
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  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I have not driven a 530i at all; I did however drive a 528i 5-Speed back in late 1998, and liked it very much, with two exceptions:

    1) There seemed to be less rear seat legroom in the 1999 528i than there was in the 1999 328i.
    2) The armrest of the 1999 5er would conflict with my elbow when shifting into 2nd and 4th gears, during my test drive, I missed 2nd gear three times, how embarrassing!

    In the 2002 530i SP that I played with on the showroom floor, I noticed that both of my complaints about the 1999 seem to have been corrected. It could be that I did not have the seat positioned properly in the 1999, or, as I have speculated, the 5er has had the backs of the front seats modified a little, offering an extra inch or so of space and changing the drivers position relative to the armrest. It might also be that the 1999 that I drove did not have the SP seats, and the one on the dealership floor did. Either way, I am confident that the car I ordered will suit me and those that I tote around perfectly well.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • rlowrierlowrie Member Posts: 30
    If you are- what type of seat are you in. I haven't been able to sit in the various seating options so would appreciate some feedback on "standard" setas vs SP seats vs comfort seat options.

    THnaks

    Rick
  • snagielsnagiel Member Posts: 750
    Sport seats (and package) all the way, no question! Go to your dealer and see for yourself.
  • john01john01 Member Posts: 246
    There is no question that sports seat gives you that tightly wrapped around feeling and great lower thigh support. I would have picked that one over the comfort had I been in the states where I seldom drive for more than an hour or two at a time. However, I tend to drive at least 10 hour round trip once a month in Germany and I could not live without a lumbar support. Since I could not get the lumbar support on sports seat, that left the standard with lumbar or the comfort seats. I test drove one with comfort and found the articulating upper back support to be quite useful. So comfort seats for us.

    Since most everything about cars is so personal, I would say try to spend as much time in those seats as you can. All that said, for $400, sports seat is a no brainer over the standard if you do not need the lumbar.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I have not actually performed the "Butt" test with the various cars side by side, but I will offer what I can. There are 4 different seating combinations available with the 2002 5-Series, and hear is my summary of them:

    1) 10-Way Power Seats: Standard seat on the 525i, 525iT, 530i, 540iA and 540iT (all models except the 540i 6-Speed). These seats are quite nice and comfortable, reasonably supportive (both laterally and in the normal sense) and have plenty of adjustments.
    2) 12-Way Power Sport Seats: Standard seat on the 540i 6-Speed, optional seat with SP on all other 5-Series cars. These seats have a little more contour to them (I think) and have a power thigh support, which actually lengthens the bottom of the seat toward your knees.
    3) 14-Way Power Seats: Optional on the 530i, 540iA and 540iT, not available with SP, these seats are the same as the Standard issue 10-Way seats with the addition of a 4-Way Power Lumbar support (up-down and in-out).
    4) 16-Way Power Comfort Seats: Optional on all 5-Series cars except the 525i and 525iT. Not only do these seats have 16 different controls, these seats have an articulating seat back, allowing you to adjust the lower portion for you lower back and lumbar area and at the same time, have a different setting for your shoulders and neck. I will add that I have never seen these seats, what I have written here is simply MY understanding of what the BMW web site states, so I may not have this correct.

    I hope this helps.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • colt007colt007 Member Posts: 64
    Test drove the standard; purchased the sport seats (& package...picked it up yesterday). Spent about 2 hours driving around. Sports are firmer than standard. My wife was missing the lumbar support we have in our 300M but the handling, braking, ride, premium stereo more than made up for it. I find the heat can be as soothing as lumbar but that's probably just me.

    Colt
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