BMW 5-Series Sedans

alcards · December 2002

It is my understanding that the short treadlife with the SPP is not due to the tires themselves but to the tuning and alignment of the suspension. Any tire will last less if you have the sport package. But you can buy separately the 17" wheels and tires that you like and use your 16" stock wheels for your winter set. Best of both worlds.

riez · December 2002

e210s... There are a lot of factors that go into the price of a used car. Mileage. Options. A low mile, high option car will cost a lot more than a high mile, low option car. Condition. Cars in good condition are worth more than cars in poor condition.

Are you wanting to go BMW CPO or not? You'll pay more for CPO.

You should check out BMW NA's CPO locator on their web site. Very user friendly. Plus look over the car ads for sale in newspapers. Used car pricing data can also be found here at Edmunds and on other web sites.

Any used car is only worth what someone will sell it for and a buyer will buy it for. The prices are negotiable! Research and negotiate hard!!!

bmw323is · December 2002

Low profile Y or Z rated summer tires have a softer rubber compund and will not last as long as all-season tires. However, they handle significantly better, stop better and usually are better in rain. My Z-rated Conti's on my 3 series have about 22,000 miles on them and I'm guessing I'll get 30,000 miles out of them. I've rotated them once, front to back, at about 15,000 miles.

While summer tires will only last 60% of the mileage an all season tire will, they are safer, and more fun in all but snowy/icy driving conditions.

m1fuller · December 2002

Hey,

I just ordered my dream car. I put down a deposit for a black/black 530ia. Dealer invoice is $49970.00...Any idea what I should pay? Options include: Xenon Lights, Preminum Sound/DSP, cold weather, premium and sport package. Arrives early January...Thanks

snagiel · December 2002

Actually, $49,970 is the list (MSRP) price. The dealer wholesale (invoice) price is $45,745 (before any additional incentives the dealer receives). Forget about MSRP; try offering $1000-1500 over the wholesale price, and don't accept anything over $2000 more than wholesale, unless you live in the Bay Area (one of the few geographical areas I've heard prices are notoriously high amongst several dealers.)

However, I'm confused: You've already put a deposit down without agreeing to a price? You should always do that first, unless the deposit is fully refundable.

jhammell · December 2002

Thanks for taking the time to share this information with me. I agree that the sub upgrade may be the place to start since have already "invested" over $1,000 in the upgraded stereo. I think I saw that sub on sale for $500 which would probably fit under the tree. I will keep you posted as to how this turns out.

m1fuller · December 2002

Thanks for the reponse...again...I should have clarified my question. The car is still on the boat and won't arrive till next week in California. I just put down a deposit to hold that specific car and when it arrives in CO, then we will discuss price.

jb_shin · December 2002

I have a 530i with SPP, and puchased a winter tire/wheel pkg from the local BMW dealer. It was a Dunlop Wintersport M2 with the BMW 16 inch alloy, which happened to be the same wheels on the non-SPP cars. Perhaps you can find those from people who have "upgraded" their wheels. I am sure many on roadfly.com has done that.

pen101 · December 2002

My 2002MY 530i will be one year old in two weeks. It now has 12,500 miles on it. The service interval display shows one green lamp is left before servicing is required.

I have been driving manual transmission cars almost exclusively since 1980. The BMW is the most difficult to drive smoothly of all the cars I owned (a Nissan and then 2 Toyota Supras). The problem is the 1-2 shift at medium speed. It takes work to be smooth. I can be silky smooth at both low acceleration and high acceleration, but not at medium speed without concentration. Maybe I am spoiled by the other cars.

Over the last few weeks a momentary dead spot seems to be developing as I let out the clutch as I accelerate from a stand still and engage into first using a lower RPM start. It does not happen every time, but more so when the engine is cold and on low RPM starts. It is almost as if the clutch cable is rubbing against something momentarily, even though I know that cannot be the case. I cannot say if it is the clutch or the transmission gears that is causing this. The more I think about it, the more I wonder, could a gear tooth be chipped in the first gear? I am the only one that drives the car, and I do not remember ever missing a shift and grinding the gears. I also do not drive the car especially hard.

Any suggestions before I have the car serviced?

ericmui · December 2002

Purchaesd a CPO 2001 530 a few weeks ago and notice some whitish/cloudy/foggy spots on the hood, dealer said never seen anything like it before and suspect the clear coat and told me bring it to the used car manager. Anybody out there get any idea?

snagiel · December 2002

We're on the same boat; my car's turning a year old next weekend, and I also have about 12,800 miles on it with one green light left. And I too have noticed (as most have) that the clutch operation is not as intuitive or easy to modulate as some others'.

However, I don't experience the same symptoms you do with this "dead spot." I doubt you have a chipped tooth; those gears are made of forged steel and require a lot of force to simply break off. I have accidentally grinded my gears a couple of times, but shifts are still smooth and otherwise normal. And besides, those gears are rotating at several thousand RPM; I'm guessing a chipped gear tooth wouldn't manifest itself as a noticeable "dead spot."

I'm curious to hear whether the dealer finds anything. For problems like this, I'm sure they'd have to be able to duplicate it fairly easily and consistently before they start tearing your tranny apart. So, you may have to wait until it gets worse (or more consistent) before getting them to notice. To duplicate the cold start, bring the car in the night before and drop it off, come in in the morning and ask to ride along with a technician so you can point it out. Good luck.

snagiel · December 2002

I experienced something similar with my car; when I got my windows tinted last year, they applied the tint with a water-soap mixture which got all over my trunk lid. They didn't bother rinsing it off with water, and driving home in the hot summer sun left these soapy/cloudy streaks on the trunk lid. I applied some 3M Imperial Hand Glaze to a good cotton applicator sponge, and rubbed in layer after layer until my shoulder almost dislocated. (HG is a relatively mild polish/glaze, so it's practically impossible to overdo it.) I finally got rid of nearly all of the streaks; under bright sun at certain angles you can still see a faint outline of them, but it's practically invisible unless you're really looking for it. See if the dealer can take an orbital buffer and polish the stuff out. Good luck.

metmdx · December 2002

I've had by CPO '99 528i for approx 5 months now (and 9K miles) and absolutely love the car. Sure there are minor design issues (infamous cup holders and doors that don't automatically lock) but all in all a great vehicle.

One issue has cropped up lately that will go back to the dealer on, but before I do, I want to find out if anyone else has experienced this. I've got a significant rattle coming from the right side (around where the airbag is located). Took everything out of the glovebox (what little fits in there) and still get this rattle. Didn't have it when I got the car, but has developed over the last month or so. Don't know if the cold weather has anything to do with it (NY metro area).

Any clue from our knowledgable clientele???

Any TSB's etc.?

TIA,

metmdx

pap5 · December 2002

When I changed out my SP wheels/tires a couple of weeks ago for the winter tires, I checked the tread closely. At 17,000 miles, I'm guessing another ~7,500 miles to be down to the wear bars in semi-aggressive driving.

snagiel · December 2002

With respect to the auto door locks, the dealer can reprogram your car memory options for that preference. The charge should be minimal.

As for the rattle, there are a couple of possibilities that come to mind:

- Something loose under the seat: Move it all the way forward, up, and tilted forward, and inspect it for anything loose.

- Seat belt mechanism: There's some service advisory about this, so have the dealer check it out.

- Door seals: Apply WD-40 to a rag and coat the entire periphery of the seal with the stuff (good to do on all doors, by the way, once a year to help keep the rubber from drying and cracking.) Door seals usually sound more like a groaning noise over bumps, but I wouldn't put a rattle past them.

Good luck.

snagiel · December 2002

You guys are having better luck than me: I'm just shy of 13k miles on my '02 530i sport with the Conti's, and the outer edge of all of my tires (especially the rears) are already fairly low. I'm guessing that by 15k I'll need new tires.

dzuba · December 2002

So I guess with the Sport Package and some decent driving (15K - 20K) per year - that adds another $1000.00 per year to the upkeep of the car. Maybe I'll keep the winter tires on a bit longer!

snagiel · December 2002

Here's how I look at it:

Sport package: An excellent set of performance tires (e.g. Bridgestone Potenza S-03 Pole Position) go for $165, so with shipping and mounting/balancing that comes to $775. Depending on driving style and environmental factors, they'll last 15k-25k miles. Cost is 3.1 - 5.2 cents per mile.

No sport package: An excellent set of high performance all-season tires (e.g. Dunlop SP Sport 5000 Asymmetrical) go for $105, so with shipping and mounting/balancing that comes to $540. Depending on driving style and environmental factors, they'll last 25k-40k miles. Cost is 1.4 - 2.2 cents per mile.

To me it comes down to this: Am I willing to spend another 2-3 cents per mile for noticeably better steering response, noise comfort, handling, grip, and hydroplanning resistance? Yes, I am.

snagiel · December 2002

I was just reminded in another post: Have the dealer check the door latches as well.

riez · December 2002

snagiel... Surprised you put "noise comfort" as a plus for high performance tires. Always seemed to me that so many people using ultra-high or super-high performance tires tend to complain about the noise. The Yokohama Decibel AVS tires on my 540i6 have developed horrible noise level. Some surfaces are downright annoying. But I'm too cheap too replace them just yet and just turn up the stereo.

chaseag · December 2002

snagiel
Thanks for the reply
I agree with you on the sheepskins and brake dust covers. I was just hoping someone had a different idea to make those sport seats a little softer.

snagiel · December 2002

Well, perhaps I wasn't being fair. That jab was directed more at winter tires than all-seasons, since winters' typically blocky tread pattern are usually amongst the loudest tires. I don't have any evidence that suggests high performance tires are generally quieter than all-seasons, but that's been my personal (albeit limited) observation.

Aside from rolling noise, however, is susceptability to adhesion-related squealing; all-seasons with less traction will break loose and howl easier than their high performance brethren.

lacaroline · December 2002

Hi Everyone,

Sorry to interrupt with non-technical questions but just returned from Munich where I did ED for my 530i on Monday and had a great experience.

I feel bad for the customers of those BMWs
(and Volvos and Saabs) of the "Tricolor" ship that sunk in the English Channel, spoke to my BMW dealer and mine wasn't on the boat, but apparently there were quite a few BMW custom orders and ED's on that ship headed to many BMW dealerships in USA.

I'm told that if you are one of the unfortunate ones awaiting delivery that BMW will contact you directly and very soon.

I hope that's very few of you on this board.

LA Caroline

Kirstie_H · December 2002

A journalist with a major daily newspaper is looking to talk with people who bought entry-luxury cars having owned more-expensive luxury cars (e.g. traded 5-series for 3-series).
If you have a story to share, please send your daytime contact information to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than Friday, December 20, 2002. Please be sure to include the vehicle model names and model years. Thanks for your consideration!

pap5 · December 2002

After admittedly limited use, I find that the Dunlop Winter Sport M2s are actually quieter than my regular Michelin Pilot Primacies. At 17K miles, the latter have started to develop a low howl at speed that I don't recall being there before. In addition to strong snow/slush performance, the M2s so far are impressive on dry pavement too, although I haven't cornered them anywhere near the limit. At this point, I definitely advocate the idea of speciality tires (performance tires for 3 seasons + winter tires) that collectively do everything well, rather than one set of all-seasons that do everything adequately, at best.

Snagiel, re replacing the Contis at 17K: Sounds like a compound that doesn't emphasize tread life (what's the rating?) . . . or perhaps driving style? If only the outside edges are showing accelerated wear, it can't be inflation pressure, which I assume you're meticulous about anyway.

snagiel · December 2002

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I don't measure tire pressure as often as I should; probably every 6-8 weeks. I'm actually approaching 13k miles, not 17k, but indeed the outer edge is worn down close to the minimum level on the rears (fronts are somewhat more respectable).

Nevertheless, it may be on the low side, but certainly not out of the normal range with the Conti's, from what I've heard. They're only rated at 160, which is certainly low even amongst performance tires (Bridgestone S-03's are 220, I think).

I suspect my driving style is mostly to blame; I don't abuse the car, but I certainly drive it in the spirited manner which it's designed for and seems to beg for.

spyderred · December 2002

Sorry it took so long to respond, been busy with comnpany, etc.

It was a bad ignition switch according to my dealer, Shelly BMW (Southern California). I thought it was really strange so I questioned it because I didn't understand what the ignition switch had to do with the SRS system. The technician took his time and wrote the explanation in detail in the work order. I was very impressed. I don't have the work order with me now however if you are interested I can get it when I go home and let you know. My extended warranty company (1Source) paid for most of the repair, about $250, I had to pay a little over $100. 1Source came through for me again, I have been pleased with them so far.

Spyderred,

awd2003 · December 2002

With four winter tires similar to Blizzak, will I have difficulty driving in snow. I'm looking at a new 530 with auto (no sport) or a A6 3.0. I live in New England. thanks

snagiel · December 2002

All things being equal, the A6 will be more sure-footed in those dreaded Nor'eastahs. But with proper winter tires the RWD 530 should fare reasonably well in all but the worst conditions. If you don't have a backup Land Rover and must be in the office every day at 8:30, Quattro becomes a very compelling advantage, but otherwise I think you'd be satisfied with 5.

mschukar · December 2002

I would venture to say that a 530 w/Blizzak's would be better than 75% of the vehicles out there. It should handle and stop better (be safer) than any car or SUV with all season tires regardless of how many wheels are driven.

-murray

chrism124 · December 2002

I live in New England (New Hampshire) and drive a 02 530iA (non sport). I mounted 4 Blizzak WS-50's to the standard rims and so far the car has been great in the snow/ice. I'm sure the dedicated winter tires help but I have found that my BMW handles better then some of my previous cars (00 Honda Accord EX-V6, 97 Ford Explorer, 96 Maxima SE). I believe the DSC and the near 50/50 balance contribute to the car's good winter handling.

Would the Quattro system found in the Audi be an asset for winter driving? Yes. But do I find that I need the Quattro. No.

Chris

pap5 · December 2002

Our main family vehicles are an AWD Volvo wagon on all-season tires, and an '01 530iA on new dedicated Dunlop winter tires. I drove both during or immediately after our first decent snow of the season, ~6 in. a couple of weeks ago. From a "go" standpoint, I found them to be roughly equivalent. I didn't press either car close enough to the limits imposed by conditions to be able to assess differences in cornering and stopping, but have to believe that winter tires would provide an edge in those situations. If we lived deep within the Snow Belt, with frequent, deep snows and winter temperatures rarely above freezing, I'd put winter tires on the AWD and feel very confident in almost any situation.

All bets are off when it comes to heavy icing conditions. Last week, we had freezing rain; on my sloping and curved driveway, this was freezing rain on top of ice left over from the previous snow (okay, with my middle-aged back, I've gotten lazy about shoveling). As soon as I backed the 530 out of the garage, the going got hairy. Progress down the driveway was incremental, a series of short responses to steering input followed by all four corners surrendering traction and the car sliding straight down the slope toward the mailbox. The street, also curved and sloping downhill, was no better, at least on my side of the cul-de-sac, untreated from the previous week's storm. Moving forward was no better than moving backward, and this time the target in my path was not a mailbox, but my old Z car parked at the curb. I finally edged over to treated roadway, and the rest of the trip to work was uneventful. I suspect that the winter tires helped, but nothing short of studs would have provided a comfortable margin of control in those conditions.

spyderred · December 2002

moments. I live in Southern California now, but I used to live in Chicago for 10 years and had only rear wheel drive sports cars then. I will never forget the time I was in my '88 Toyota Supra turbo, came to this overpass going about 25mph. The streets were fairly clean from the previous snow storm but not completely. I guess there was a small layer of snow which became ice overnight that was not very visible. I had to barely touch my brakes and change lanes briskly to avoid the guy in front of me that decided that he wanted to suddenly be in my lane for no reason at all. Now the fun begins, rear ends breaks loose, goes left, right, left, right, then I am doing a donut right on the bridge. After a few fearful seconds, I end up facing in the direction I am traveling in, my car stops about 4 inches from the guardrail that prevents cars from going over the bridge unto the freeway below.
Scary moments. I kind of miss that. Nah, not really. On my way to work this morning at 5:30am, the temp was a balmy 48 degrees. Boy it was cold. Yea, Yea, I know, I am spoiled now, but hey I paid my dues. 10 years in Chicago is plenty.

div2 · December 2002

Those LS guys get ALL the phat accessories:

http://www.vogue-tyre.com/cgi-local/accessories/search.cgi?setup_file=show_pod.setup&db_id=291&submit_search=on

riez · December 2002

div2... Did you happen to see recent article in AutoWeek, probably from about a month ago, discussing how McLaren dropped plans to make serious performance versions of LS? Way back at beginning of year, thinking around time of NY AutoShow, McLaren said they'd offer upgrades that would seriously boost power and there would also be a manual transmission version. If you got it all, thinking cost was supposed to be around $54,000 or thereabout. AutoWeek article mentioned McLaren scrapping these plans due to all the LSs sitting on dealers' lots and the need for huge incentives in an attempt to move them. Left McLaren to ponder offering just aero mods and other visual enhancements.

ls1bmw0 · December 2002

http://www.beaterz.com/one_liners/0700/images/taurus_m.jpg

johnnylinc · December 2002

2002 year-to-date as of the end of November:

BMW 5 series sedan: 33,828

Lincoln LS: 35,585

Of course, if you add in the 1,779 5-series wagons sold here in 2002, BMW edges Lincoln by a whopping 22 units. Guess sales numbers are a matter of perspective...

Gold trim, BTW, isn't exclusive to domestics or Asian imports.

http://www.eclipse-auto.com/bmw_gold.htm

ergozoom · December 2002

The LS is available as a rental car through Hertz (quite a few of them here in CA). Usually this influences the sales numbers :-).

riez · December 2002

BMW would use 0.0 percent financing for 60 months and $3,000-5,000 in rebates and incentives to move 5 Series. Bet sales would explode! But then the crushing impact on resale value is brutal when you go to sell the car a few years later. Cadillac and Lincoln just never learn.

div2 · December 2002

Yep, those huge rebates and financing incentives are simply destroying the resale values of domestic cars. Lincoln and others are also offering early lease termination deals to coax current owners into buying/leasing another one.

riez · December 2002

that the E39 5 Series came out in CY 1996 as a MY 1997 car and that the next platform is coming in the not-too-distant future, its sales are outstanding. And its relative performance is almost unexplainably fantastic compared to its competitors 2002 and 2003 models that have had 6 or 7 more years of development time! Points out how truly exceptional is the E39 platform. A modern classic.

chrism124 · December 2002

I was informed yesterday by my salesperson that Feb 03 would be the cutoff time for ordering the current 5-series (E39). By summer time the E60s will be on the lot. This goes against what we have been hearing about a launch during the Frankfurt Auto Show.

Strange but the new 7-series exterior design, except for the rear, is starting to grow on me. And I do like the Z4. Still not sold on the benefits of i-Drive but it appears that it will be standard (with 4 less menus) on the new 5-series. I prefer the cockpit design of my current 02 530iA.

Chris

jb_shin · December 2002

I have to say that after the initial shock of seeing the new 7-series, it does not look as bad as I had thought (still bad, IMHO). However, it was actually quite funny to read Andrew Frankl's write up in the Bimmer magazine (Feb, 2002 issue). He was talking about how long it would take a valet to get the car out, given how "sophisticated" the car is to operate. He had actually asked a BMW exec in Europe about similar scenario that goes like this:
Say a traveler arrives at an airport after 10-hour flight and somehow gets upgraded car from the rental counter, which turns out to be one of the new 7. How long would he be sitting in the garage before he can get it moving? The exec said, "Until morning".

I wish the new 5 will not have the same "user friendly" interface, but I fear that is not the case. Time to take a look at the E-class.

riez · December 2002

Seems like more and more automotive writers are turning out to like both the new 7 Series and Z4. Whether it is Roundel, European Car, C&D, etc. Both cars look much better in flesh than in pictures. (The 745i was a blast to drive at the Drive for the Cure event. Too bad they only had a couple of Z3s.)

But BMW had better address the near universal scathing comments about the 7 Series iDrive. Don't replicate that mess in the next 5 Series.

dzuba · December 2002

Can anyone please tell me the difference between the two. I know what is in the PP from Edmunds, but what is in the Convenience Package?

snagiel · December 2002

There's no such thing as a convenience package, at least not currently (perhaps it was an earlier name for the premium package?). See the configurator on BMWusa.com for all the package details.

riez · December 2002

Used to give you a couple of items. One was BMW's universal remote (e.g., operates garage door opener, security system, etc.). Know this was the case for the '01 models. Not sure if there have been any changes. Forget what the other item is in CP.

chrism124 · December 2002

This option was available, at minimum, in MY 01 525 & 530's cars. Not sure about earlier versions. In 02 the package had become part of the premium pkg. I believe some of the items included were the power passenger seat, rain sensor, dual climate control plus others.

Chris

pap5 · December 2002

In '01, rain sensing wipers were in PP, power passenger seat in CP. I believe that dual climate control was stnd. in 530, part of PP in 525.

snagiel · December 2002

Oh yeah...now that you guys mention it, my memory has been rekindled. Next time I'll shut up if I don't know.

BMW 5-Series Sedans

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