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BMW 5-Series Sedans

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Comments

  • snagielsnagiel Member Posts: 750
    Also, be sure to plug in your model before searching for wheels, since not all 16" wheels are roomy enough for the 530/540's caliper hardware.
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    Good point.
  • pobrianpobrian Member Posts: 9
    Thanks for the info so far. A couple of follow-up questions...I've been looking at various used BMW 16 x 7 alloy rims. Is there a secret decoder ring to determine which will or will not fit on my 530? For example, will 16 x 7 alloys off a 3-series work on my 530? Will any 16 x 7 alloys off another 5 series be compatible? etc., etc.

    Thanks Again
  • srfastsrfast Member Posts: 138
    Not all wheels are interchangeable between 3/5 series cars because of offset. If you want to see the current selection of BMW factory wheels, check out the www.pacificbmw.com website. The BMW wheel catalog can be found under "PARTS." The wheels can be viewed by car series or if you just select a wheel, it will list the cars they will fit.

    Hope this helps....JL
  • jb_shinjb_shin Member Posts: 357
    Non-sport pkg wheels from 530 will fit just fine, that is what I have on mine for the winter.
  • needashaveneedashave Member Posts: 91
    I have an opportunity to buy a 1997 528 with 70,000 miles. The car appears to be well cared for with complete service records, no collision history. It has had the 60,000 mile inspection. I am estimating approximately $2000 maintainance per year. Is this realistic? Can I get 45,000 miles out of this vehicle if it is properly maintenaned over the next three years? I've heard about elecrtical problems with the 97's. What problems should I be looking for? The car drives and looks wonderful, I'm just looking for a point of reference. Happy motoring.
  • spyderredspyderred Member Posts: 138
    '01 525i/5 Speed, Sport, DSP, Leather, Moonroof, 11,000 miles, Built 3/01, stock, under warranty and CPO'd.

    Going home two nights ago in the carpool lane of the 91 Freeway, Southern California. Traffic is solid in the right lanes bumper to bumper, Concrete median to my left, cruising at about 60 mph. Notice a 3'x3' piece of styrofoam floating in the air on the way back to earth. Visual check to my right, no place to go, solid wall of cars going about 20 mph, left side is concrete barrier. Looks like my car will meet this piece of styrofoam. Hit the brakes just a bit, hoping the styrofoam would land on the ground before I hit it, without having the car behind me end up in my trunk. No luck, still hit the POS Styrofoam. I hear some un-nerving crunching sounds, few seconds later I check my rearview mirror and see the styrofoam piece in several pieces. Figure I would check the damage to my car when I get out of the carpool lane, several miles downs. Can't be too bad, it is a piece of styrofoam, Right? Stopped, turned off my car, Bumper grill cracked in a couple of places. I figured not too bad. Then I started my car, and I hear this really loud noise, kind of like a jet engine being started or a car with really loud exhaust. I Look over next to me and a couple of cars were there. I thought it was one of the other cars. I figure turn off my car and see if noise goes away. Sure enough, it does. Started my car again and noise comes back. Turn off my car, noise disappears. I am in disbelief. My car is making this horrific sound. Pop the hood open and Started the car up again and I hear the noise coming from the area near the auxillary fan.

    I guess that piece of styrofoam got jammed between the front bumper grill and the road before breaking into pieces. It cracked the bumper grill, looks like it broke some of the netting(shroud) covering the auxillary (aux.) fan and may have bent some of the aux. fan blades. Hence the noise from the aux. fan.

    Curious, are the blades on the aux. fan plastic or metal? It was late at night and I had to leave early in the morning before sunrise so I left my car at home and carpooled with my co-worker. Until I figure out what to do.

    I talked to someone at one of the parts dept of local BMW dealer and he said that the Aux. fan is an assembly which will have to be replaced entirely if the blades are bent or the netting/shroud is broken. Also I may need to replace the entire front bumper if the brackets/mounting points for the bumper grill are broken.

    I got a quote for the bumper grill ~$30, and the aux fan ~$250 for parts only. Need to add labor cost. Now, if I need a new front bumper ~$1,100 (BMW dealer) which includes painting. If bumper is intact and just needs to be painted then it is ~$750 (same dealer).

    I know I need to take another look and check if the front bumper mounting brackets for the grill are intact. If they are, then a new bumper grill and maybe an aux. fan is all I need.

    I contacted my insurance company - State Farm. They indicated that this would be covered under my Comprehensive portion. Long Beach BMW is one of their preferred repair facility. If I decide to use LB BMW then they can do all the repairs necessary and bill State Farm directly without the involvement of a claims adjuster.

    If I decide to use another repair facility, I was thinking about Shelly BMW, then an adjuster will be involved and I am sure that there will have to be some negotiations/ haggling over what needs to be repaired and how much they will pay for the parts/labor for this work.

    The reason I was thinking about Shelly for the repair is that I typically maintain my cars there. They are a lot closer to me than LB and they have been excellent to deal with for the last year and a half. Only thing is Shelly doesn't have their own body shop. They contract their body work with Spectrum Collision in Irvine.

    I feel more comfortable having LB BMW do the repairs, since they are a BMW Dealership and have their own bodyshop on premises. My car is CPO'd and I am planning on keeping it for about 5 years, until CPO runs out. The only thing I was thinking about that, in the future when I have a mechanical warranty claim, and I take my car to Shelly, I don't want to have Shelly say that, "Oh, this part failed because you had your accident and it should have been replaced then, or This wasn't repaired properly, etc..."
    Don't like playing the finger pointing game.

    Sorry for the rant, just had to get it off my chest,

    Has anyone had any experience with either Long Beach BMW or Shelly BMW/Spectrum Collision for body work?

    Thanks in advance for your thoughts/opinions,

    Spyderred.
  • snagielsnagiel Member Posts: 750
    Sorry to hear of your woes. It's hard to believe something as light and insubstantial as a chunk of styrofoam could do much harm, but at 60mph I suppose you've got some force. A year ago I was driving a Pontiac Bonneville rental car at night and I struck a partial tire tread (which I couldn't see until the last second). I doubt it weighed more than a few pounds, but it damn near tore off the lower bumper molding and completely smashed one of the foglight assemblies.

    Anyway, is there any chance your car is eligible for one of the aux fan recall campaigns?

    Sorry, I don't know anything about those dealers, but if it were I'd probably go with the path of least resistance (i.e. LB BMW). Fighting the insurance company is rarely fun or entirely successful.
  • spyderredspyderred Member Posts: 138
    going with LB BMW. I already checked on the Aux. fan recall, and my car doesn't qualify for it. I knew it was a long shot, especially since there is other body damage, scraped bumper, broken bumper grill, and broken aux fan shroud/netting.

    I still would have to do something about the body work, so since the insurance will be involved anyway, I may as well have them pay for all of the repairs.

    My other option, that is if the bumper mounting brackets are still intact to mount a new bumper grill, is to buy the aux fan and grill and have one of my mechanic friends put it in for me.

    This car has been my baby and I just want to make sure that it will be repaired properly and also so that I don't have any future problems with CPO warranty claims.

    Lookslike going with LB BMW is the safest bet right now, least amount of headaches with insurance company and at least my car will be repaired by a BMW dealer. If any issues come up later w/CPO claims, I will deal with them then.

    Thanks for your input,

    Spyderred.
  • sel3sel3 Member Posts: 33
    Has anyone tried using the clear protective covering for the front of their BMW?

    Does it work?

    Does it look good?

    Comments?

    I am going to drive my new 525 from TN to AZ later this year and do not want any damage from rocks and bugs.

    Thanks
  • snagielsnagiel Member Posts: 750
    3M offers several different thicknesses of the protective films in bulk sheets, and in turn there are a number of firms that cut templates for certain cars and/or install such kits.

    BMW offers one such kit, which I think costs around $150-200 for all of the pieces. Following the advice of a gentleman who's installed a number of these kits, however, I went the kit cut by Xpel (www.xpel.com). It's more expensive (just over $300 for the headlight, hood, bumper, fender, and side mirror pieces), but the fit is surprisingly better than BMW's own cut and includes fewer pieces for better protection and appearance.

    Self installation (which I chose to do) is certainly viable, but it does take some skill and a lot of patience to do it right. A pro will probably charge another $200-300 for the installation. For those who are paranoid, I know of a shop here in Atlanta (I'm sure there are similar ones elsewhere) that custom cuts pieces to cover the car even more extensively: the A-pillars, around the doors, behind the wheels, etc.

    I've had the film on for about 11 months now, and it's definitely helped prevent a number of scratches or dings in the paint from pebbles and other small road debris, and has protected the headlights from cracking (XPel offers a headlight guarantee just in case).

    As for the appearance, its edge is certainly visible from certain angles, but considering the alternatives (a traditional fabric bra or paint damage) it's the best choice.
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    spyderred... Not exactly sure why, but I tend to have more respect for dealerships that advertise in BMW-related publications. Hoping maybe they are more dedicated and more in tune with enthusiast's needs and desires.

    Noticed that two Long Beach BMW ads take up about 3/4ths of page 37 in February 2003 issue of Bimmer magazine. And a Long Beach BMW ad takes up a quarter of page 100 in January 2003 issue of Roundel (BMW CCA) magazine. (I'm not sure where Long Beach is, but noticed that the Pacific Region of BMW CCA has chapters in LA and San Diego. You might contact them to see what they think of this dealership.)
  • sel3sel3 Member Posts: 33
    Thank you for your input, it was very useful.

    After looking at a few web pages, XPel seems to have the best product.

    I will also install the kit myself, any lessons learned?

    Thanks!
  • jeffryjeffry Member Posts: 36
    I'm considering European delivery of a 04 530. I'm confused as to pricing. Several postings reference $1k to 1.5k over E.D. pricing--does that mean over the $2.8k savings BMW US references? Even at MSRP - $2.8k, it hardly seems worth it given that with a lease there is 2-3 mos. payment w/o a car??? (Except for the wks driving in Europe). What am I missing here, besides nothing if the Europe trip is not that important.
    Several postings I have seen seem to indicate about 3k off MSRP on a 530.
    What are common 36 mo lease pmts for a 530 with an MSRP of about $46k?
    Thanks for such a wealth of great info. Jeff
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    If you haven't already done so, go to "www.eurobuyers.com" for European Delivery invoice pricing on the 530i.

    Although most dealers will initially tell you that ED prices are not negotiable, they are. Shop around and you should be able to find a dealer that is willing to sell the car for $1,200 to $1,500 over ED invoice. That's equal to roughly $1,500 under US invoice. There is more paperwork for them, but the car does not come out of their US delivery allocation and is counted towards their sales targets / bonuses.

    You are right, there is a delay of several weeks between picking up the car in Europe and receiving it bakc in the states. I haven't done it yet, but I think the delay is more like 4-6 weeks, not 2-3 months. And, since I will be paying cash and keeping my current car until the new one arrives here, I am not incurring finance or lease costs before actually driving the car. (Given the way my stock portfolio has performed, I'm not giving up any opportunity cost either, unfortunately).

    It may not be for you, but I'd look into it further before ruling it out.
  • sta2sta2 Member Posts: 19
    I posted a bit ago questioning the differences between the 01'>03' 530i.

    Thanks for the responses. The Bmwusa site is handy, but it only lists 01', and the options listed don't seem complete.

    Are there any technology differences between the 01'.03' 530i??
     
    Were split fold down seats an option in 01'?

    I love the alloys for 98'>99' Sport package; are these the same wheels that are standard on the 01'>03' 530i, or??.....The 98'>99' wheels look different, but what do I know??

    Thanks for the post on the Xpel coating!

    Looking forward to a 530i.

    Dave
  • cheekscheeks Member Posts: 67
    I couldn't belive my eyes when I noticed a small ding on the c-pillar. I can't begin to imagine how it got there. Can anybody recommend a good paintless dent remover in the New York City area or Westchester?
  • srfastsrfast Member Posts: 138
    Can you be more specific ? There are no major "performance" changes, but changes to the the options and "packages." The moon roof became standard in 2003, but was part of the Premium Pkg or a stand alone option in 2001 is an example. I recently took delivery of a 2003 530i and will be to answer any questions you have.

    Hope this helps...JL
  • cbgb1975cbgb1975 Member Posts: 51
    Sta2, ...maybe your local dealer has kept their marketing brochures for the years past as a reference and be an easy way for you to research. If they are pack rats, you'll be in luck.
  • sta2sta2 Member Posts: 19
    Thanks for the responses. Hey JL, hope you're having a blast :-}

    I was really interested to find out if the technology was different between the 01' > 03' 530i; apparently they're the same car.

    As far as options/packages, I've spent some time in an 03' 530i and many of the options for the 01' & 02' cars, are standard on the 03'.

    I'll figure the alloys out as I go along, but neither dealer here is able to tell me if the split fold down rear seats was even an option in the 01' 530i, nor did they know if it was an option on the 97' > 00' 528i-no old brochures, service didn't know, etc....? The CPO page on Bmwusa doesn't list all options.

    Does anyone know?

    Also, any major problems/issues with the 01' > 02' 530's?

    Thanks,

    Dave
  • kchanuskchanus Member Posts: 27
    I have a 2001 5 series brochure with me, and yes the spliting seats is a option. Hope it helps.
  • jeffryjeffry Member Posts: 36
    I've got a 2001 brochure. The fold down seats were an option then--$645. (I recently test drove a CPO '99 540i w/ them & they squeaked-probably fixable). The main differences seem to be the std. sunroof now where it was part of the premium pkg in 2001-about $2100, I believe. The SP/Prem pkg was $3100 in '01.

     What are you finding CPO prices to be on the 2001 530s? Ones I've seen around the SF bay area seem to be $40-42K!!, not sure why anyone would any one buy that vs a new 525 for less and a new 530 for a just a bit more w/ some shopping??
        Hope this is helpful.
  • jeffryjeffry Member Posts: 36
    Thanks for your info. Are you saying then Europe delivery prices thru eurobuyers.com or hard negotiating would be about $2500 less than even the BMWUSA web site lists as euro delivery prices?? So, if MSRP is $46,500 bmwusa eruo is about $43,700; US dealer's invoice about $42,650, the car could conceivably be picked up in Europe for about $41,150?? If its a $5400 svgs, then I'm interested in going to Germany.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    I've been quoted $1,500 over ED on a 530i by at least two dealers in the greater DC area. I recal others on this board that have gotten as low as $1,200 over ED invoice.

    It's probably not going to be $5,400 in savings, since you can generally get a US delivered model for $1,500 to $2,000 over US invoice, but going to Europe should still save you at least an additional $3,000.
  • hssahuhssahu Member Posts: 26
    I have been enjoying driving it from the very day I got it and every mile. It has been pretty flawless.

    Occasionally, I hear a rattling noise (pretty minor) from both side B pillars. Is it normal? Nothing annoying though - but then, I want to hear only the tire noise and audio sound and nothing else while driving my car :)

    Am I becoming too paranoid?
  • sta2sta2 Member Posts: 19
    Thanks kchanus & jeffry-just the answer I needed.

    39-41k for 01' 530i's here in AZ.

    Personally, after driving them both, I'd spring for the 3.0 vs the 2.5.

    Other than the posted TSB's, are there any real issues/problems with the 01' or 02' 530i's?

    Dave
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    It is in my best interest to tell you that $39-41k for a 2001 530i is a good deal, since I'm considering buying a new one. But it isn't.

    I've priced out a very well equiped 2003 530i for under $42k through discounted ED (5-speed, SP, Xenons, Hi-Fi, etc.). Doesn't count the trip to Europe, but I'll either go cheap for a weekend (under $1k), or take my wife and kids for a nice little vacation and still end up well ahead.

    Why in the world someone would pay any more than $33-35k for a two year old 530i when a new one can be purchased for $42k through ED is beyond me. Even at $32k, that is less than 25% depreciation over two years for the original owner. I'll split the difference with you right now. I'll agree to sell you a 2003 530i in 2005 for $36.5k. It will be pampered. You'll think you got a good deal and I will have driven a 530i for about $250 per month in depreciation.

    Don't get me wrong, the 530i is a great car and if any sedan deserves to have great resale, that's the one. But that's also a good reason to buy new.
  • dzubadzuba Member Posts: 159
    Sorry to re-hash this over again - but can someone who really knows ED, or even how it is priced - verify the pricing I am looking at. I went to eurobuyers.com, under the BMW 530 2003 page, and looked under "Confidential Wholesale" pricing!!

    2003 530 through Munich Pick-up:

    34,784
       455 Xenons
     2,095 Sport Package
     2,095 Premium Package
       545 Cold Weather Package
       695 Shipping

    40,650 Total Price
     1,500 US dealer at $1500 over invoice

    42,150 Is that correct?
    If it is, does anyone someone in the Chicago area that will take that price?
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Price is correct. Sorry, don't know Chicago dealers but, if it's like DC, you should be able to take your information around and find someone willing to do the deal. Once the cat is out of the bag that you know the ED invoice prices and that they are negotiable, the dealers ability to claim otherwise is shot.

    Especially since you can point out to them that they make the same amount as a US delivered car without losing one from their allocation (this was an issue when the 530i's were hot and the dealers didn't want to discount, since they couldn't get as many as they could sell t or near MSRP).

    Good luck.
  • sta2sta2 Member Posts: 19
    I was simply passing along prices for someone else who asked; believe me, I'm a long way from paying 40k for a 1yr. or 2 yr. old car.

    Many thanks for the ED info!! I didn't realize so much could be purchased for so little.

    Other than eurobuyers.com, what other sites can you point us to for info..

    Dave
  • bdevilbdevil Member Posts: 3
    This fall I tried to negotiate discounts off ED list pricing for a 530I from two north shore dealers. Neither would budge off ED list. I was ready to buy that day at $1500 over ED invoice, which I let them know, and both let me walk without even an attempt at negotiations. My sense is the Chicago market dealers sell the bulk of their allocations without the need for aggressive discounting and they are worried that discounting off of ED list would cause some erosion in both the overall market pricing for new as well as pre-owned product. Just look at the asking prices for recent model used 530i's in the Chicago market. Having said all that, I haven't tested the market beyond those two dealers who were closest to me. Keep us informed of your results.
  • snagielsnagiel Member Posts: 750
    Sorry about the delayed response, but I just returned from a weekend break...

    I selected XPel as well and have been pleased with it. The installation is fairly straightforward, but as I said it requires both practice and patience in perfecting the art of applying the film. When ordering, be sure to ask for the free video that demonstrates how to install. They make it look easy, but view it over and over (and read the printed directions) until you know them well. Start with easier pieces like the headlight, fender, and side mirror pieces, and leave the hood piece until last. Set aside PLENTY of time--probably 6-8 hours total for the full kit--since you don't want to rush it. Don't be afraid to use too much of the water-alcohol solution: you can't get the stuff "too wet." Keep it wet, and you'll have enough time to ensure it's positioned correctly and no air bubbles are trapped. Also, do not install in direct sunlight, since that will dry the water-alcohol solution very quickly, but be sure there's sufficient light to easily spot air bubbles, since they can hide easily in shady conditions.

    Good luck. Email me if you have other questions.
  • snagielsnagiel Member Posts: 750
    Dent Wizard (http://www.dentwizard.com/) is a national chain, and I was extremely impressed with their operation here in Atlanta last year when I suffered a minor ding in one of my doors. I'm not certain how accessible the C-pillars are, but they did a great job with my car and had an immaculately impressive and upscale waiting area (although the finished the job in less than 15 minutes). The quick and professional job came at a price: $99 (up to 3 dings in a single panel). But I definitely recommend them.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    If it's true that Chicago dealers won't discount off ED list, I can make a recommendation for a western Pennsylvania dealer that will. I believe they can even arrange for "courtesy delivery" to a Chicago dealer when the car comes in from Europe. Then again, if the Chicago dealers are that nasty, you may not want to rub it in their face.

    Although small, the Pennsylvania dealer in my former home town is of high integrity. They refused to mark up M5's when they were selling for $25k+ premiums on E-Bay. When I stopped in their showroom a year ago, they were preparing an M5 for pick-up by a surgeon from Phoenix. Even if a local dealer in the DC area matches their price, I'd consider buying from them just to reward their professionalism.
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    As I learned a long time, under my state's automobile dealer franchise laws, the selling dealer is responsible for warranty work. A non-selling dealer of the same brand doesn't even have to legally work on your car. Most dealers aren't as ruthless as that. But they could exercise ways to make your life a bit less pleasant. For example, my local BMW dealer will only "give" you a service loaner if you buy the car from him. I've heard stories about dealers who postpone service work or just otherwise make it a bit less convenient for people who didn't buy from them, by giving priority to those people who bought from them. My situation could be worse. Only one local dealer but there is another about 65 miles away. Next nearest ones are about 145 and 190 miles away.
  • snagielsnagiel Member Posts: 750
    There's a difference between rewarding your loyal customers (giving them a service loaner) and punishing others (e.g. recommending unnecessary work).

    But, since many dealerships make a huge chunk (if not majority) of their profits from service work, why turn customers away? It's in the dealer's interest to make work covered by warranty, since they get paid either way and the customer is always more pleased when BMW has to pick up the tab.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    I think I recall that you are from New York and if so, next to California, they have some of the strangest state laws...but:

    In my researching the same issue, it is a "manufacturers" warranty, not a "dealer" warranty. Unless you leave the U.S., you are entitled to warranty work at ANY BMW dealership. That doesn't mean the dealer is legally bound to be polite or prompt, but they must perform the work. And, according to a BMW North America representative I contacted several months ago, they would be more than happy to intervene, if necessary. He even sent me a letter confirming this policy. Dealers are a mixed lot, but BMW NA impressed me as customer service oriented.

    Too bad you don't have more competition in your area.
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    I was only merely trying to comment on why sometimes bypassing your local dealer might not be such a good thing. Esp. if your dealer isn't one of the "good guys". They know where you bought your car. They know you didn't buy it from them. They might not presume you'll ever buy anything from them. Too bad it seems like so few dealers are interested in taking care of valued, loyal customers. But the flip side to that is there are so few loyal buyers. Look at all the talk above about travelling the country to find the lowest price. No wonder car dealers and car buyers have such a love-hate relationship.

    Yesterday, for about the 7th time since 1996, I've seriously tried to buy a new BMW from my local BMW dealer. Was going to trade in her 2000 323ia. Wife wanted a 2003 325xia. Right color, right options. They had two identical units on lot. Dealer even quickly discounted the car $1,500 off MSRP (essentially splitting the differnce off published invoice). But, as has foiled me every other time, the trade value just doesn't seem right. He wants to buy low to sell high. So yet again we went away empty handed. I kidded the salesperson that maybe sometime in 2003 we'll break the curse and consumate a deal. If not, there is always 2004.

    snagiel... (1) The way Infiniti and Lexus handle loaner cars and customer service is far superior to BMW's requirements with their dealers. (2) Warranty work isn't overly profitable. If you do it right, you'll cover variable expenses. Keep in mind it is not done on a cost plus basis where the manufacturer just trusts the dealer. But due to the way these activities are reimbursed (e.g., the dealer will only get paid so much for a particular type of work, so it doesn't pay to spend more than the alloted time on it), no dealer makes a lot of money off warranty work. Most dealers make more profit off their used cars. Just try to get the "invoice" for the dealer's used cars. You won't ever know what he paid for it. And he won't and doesn't have to tell you. Dealers buy low (e.g., give as little it trade, buy at auctions, etc.) and sell as high as they can. They love to sell used cars.

    habitat1... I live in the great midwest. Part of flyover country. Chicago is about 8 hours of interstate driving away. In my state only the selling dealer has to service the car. I had problems with a local Chrysler dealer back in '95. He was horrid. One day he wouldn't service it any more. Called State's AG's office. They confirmed he didn't have to. Called Chrysler. They can't force him to. (In most state's, dealers are a very powerful lobby.) But Zone Rep. hooked me up with a better dealer in the next-door state. I quickly sold the car. But I learned my lesson.
  • cbgb1975cbgb1975 Member Posts: 51
    I have had a very good experience with Dent wizard as well. If the paint has not come off the body,talk to them for an estimate. Their price was about 60% of the most competitive body shop. The car I was repairing was about 7 years old,I just wanted it to look presentable without spending a lot of dough...I was very impressed and even when I pinpointed where the damage had been to others, it was not apparent. This was not a "ding", but a dent from a hit and run Home Depot parking lot shopping cart...I had to leave the car there all day,but I was a happy camper at day's end.
  • msealsmseals Member Posts: 257
    Don't forget that dealers make a lot of money on servicing a car. You are right in that warranty work doesn't get them any real profit, but maintenance and service work does. I would even wager that dealers make more money on service work than used car sales. They charge far more for regular services such as oil changes and brake jobs. It use to be that you always took you car to the dealer for service. But not with the advent of quicky oil places and precision tunes, people don't take there car to the dealer as much any more. This lack of customers has caused them to raise prices to make up for loss of business. The truth is that the dealer is probably better trained than just about any where else to work on your car though. Especially if it is foreign, such as European or Japanese. Most times these discount places can't even do an oil change on these cars.
  • jdbtensaijdbtensai Member Posts: 122
    a decrease in the demand led to an increase in price?
    or is it that those who still go to the dealer are willing to pay more? so they really did raise the price, after giving up on the other customers.
  • msealsmseals Member Posts: 257
    The average number of people who take there car in to the dealer for oil changes now compared to 30 years ago is much lower. I would probably even say it is about a 60-70 percent drop. That being said, I called the local dealership and they told me that an oil change with regular BMW oil is $63. I called a local reputable European shop and they said it would cost $68. The dealership was actually cheaper!! But if you take my last car, a 2000 Honda Civic Si and call the Honda dealership and ask how much an oil change is, they told me $28. I can take that car to Precision Tune, where they do a complete full service oil change, top off fluids, rotate tires, and do a general car inspection for $25. Now I can't verify if the Honda dealership would do all the other things that go along with Precision Tunes price but I highly doubt it. Honda, like BMW, make more of an effort for there cars to have the scheduled maintenance done. Most people now a days don't do preventive maintenance, they do reactive maintenance. They only take it in when something is broke. This of course excludes oil change, FOR MOST PEOPLE!! There is a lady at my job who leased a taurus becuase her husband works for Ford. She said she should probably get an oil change before she turned it in after her two year lease. I asked her when was the last time she had an oil change, she said she never had one done. I was floored, after 28k miles she had never had an oil change, the car still had the original oil in it. To make things worse, she was complaining that she only got 12-15 miles to the gallon on a V-6.
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    mseals... What you wrote reminded me the real, if not so obvious, value to BMW's "free" maintanence program. I wouldn't buy a used BMW pre-1998 MY unless I knew the owner personally AND had the service records. Remember reading C&D's long-term wrap up for their MY 1997 540i6. They carped about how expensive it had been to maintain over 40,000 miles and were pleased that in MY 1998 BMW went to the 3/36 "free" maintenance plan. Made me wonder how many BMW owners and leasees were sacrificing required maintenance to save money before they unloaded their cars.

    Thankfully BMW has gone to 4/50 "free" plan for MY2003. Was kind of iritating to contemplate whether to buy the extra time or not. Was a gamble. This way now you are fully covered by b-to-b warranty and maintenance agreement during 4/50 period.

    With the MY 1998 and newer BMWs, I have few concerns with purchasing the CPO units I did as regards whether they were maintained.

    BUT does seem like the minute BMW or MB started "paying" for "free" maintenance that the service intervals were lengthened. Getting new oil and filter change about every 15,000 miles still bugs me a bit. Even with big sumps and synthetic oil. Think they should change the oil filter every 6 months or 7,500 miles, which comes first.
  • tusstuss Member Posts: 11
    any thoughts on what the pricing is going to be on the new 5 series when they come out? One more thing, with all the "opinions" about the new five, do you think that there will be a sudden increase in demand for the "old body" 5 series as soon as the new shape comes out---I remember this happened with the old 7 series, my dad was considering a 7 series with the sport package, and couldn't decide if he was getting a good deal, and as soon as the new shape came out, the prices actually went up and dealers were less apt to negotatiate on the old ones b/c people were so turned off by the new design and decided to go for the old shape instead. I'm thinking of getting a 530i, but don't know if I should wait until the new shape comes out, or if I should just pull the trigger now . . .
  • msealsmseals Member Posts: 257
    It is funny you said that about pre-1997 MY. When looking for a used 5 series, I took a lot of things into account. One of the main ones was that I wanted a 1998 MY or newer and preferably CPO'd. I ended up getting a 1998 MY 528i 5sp. I did a Carafax on it and found out that it had two previous owners. A woman who had it for a 2 year lease, and a lawyer who had it for 2 years as well. The woman put 15k a year on it, had all the recall and maintenance down at the dealership and turned it in with 30k miles on it. The lawyer, bought the car as a CPO, had it for 2 years, did all the maintenance on it at the dealership, new tires, new brakes, and inspections I and II done on it as well as oil changes. The only thing he had fixed was the mirror cover had been broken off in a car wash. He put 50k miles on the car in two years because he basically lived an hour and a half from where he worked. It was literally all freeway so the miles were relatively easy miles. I bought the car with 80k miles on it and the remaining 2 years and 20k miles of the CPO warranty. I have driven the car 5k miles so far with not a single problem other than the passenger door lock freezing. That was my fault though, I just had to get it washed and it was about 8 degrees outside. I drove the car a mile and put it in the garage, the next day the passenger door was frozen shut. That was two days ago.
  • bimmer12bimmer12 Member Posts: 72
    Anyone know when production of the current E39 5 series will cease- the last time you can place an order for the current 5?
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    tuss... We won't know till it happens. But given all the gizmos and enhancements reported for the next platform and given rise in value of Euro (or the fall in the vallue of the Dollar), likely you'll see a decent price increase.

    Real price of MY2003 E39 5 Series has fallen. Wife and I test drove an '03 525ia the other day. With PP, CWP, and Xenon. While the base list rose a bit, you have to keep in mind that some good things more than offset the small increase:

    1. Free maintenance is now for 4 years or 50,000 miles. Up from 3/36. That upgrade used to cost about $400 and up depending on the dealer.

    2. Rear head airbags are now standard.

    3. Sunroof is now standard.

    4. Some items have been added to the 525i Premium Package (e.g., auto headlights and rain-sensing windshield wipers).

    When I compared MY2003 price to MY2002 price, there was only about a $600 difference. But the above, to me at least, more than offset that.
  • mod62mod62 Member Posts: 38
    I have a '02 525iT 5spd Premium, cold weather with 7K miles.
    My car was running and all of a sudden my Climate control LED goes out at about 8:00 pm and the blower goes on high. All display was out and I could not shut of the blower. Even when I turned the car off, there was no change in the situation. I called Roadside Assistance and there were useless. (What a joke this service is if the local dealer is closed when you call).

    I decided to find the fuse and pull it so I could shut off heat. Either my brain was frozen with the 7 degree temparuture or the fuse schematic is dumb put I decided to go fuse by fuse and see what worked.

    Luckily I only had to reach #4 and it shut the blower off. I replaced it and everything works fine.
    Three questions:

    1. #4 fuse is for Trunk and Compartment lighting. How does that affect the Automatic Climate Control?
    2. What happened. Did a relay get stuck because of the frigid weather?
    3. Should I get it checked out by the dealer. I drove today and no problems.
    Thanks
  • snagielsnagiel Member Posts: 750
    I've heard seasoned electrical engineers puzzle in shock and wonder about some of the electrical snafus that snake their way through the E39's circuit boards, so who knows. If the problem has worked itself out (even temporarily), I guarantee the dealer won't find anything. Too bad the "reboot" didn't do the trick.

    If it's any consolation, during the same cold night my upstair neighbors' pipes froze, exploded, and subsequently gushed about fifty gallons of water into our bathroom and bedroom today. Fortunately I was home to get it stopped so quickly.
  • sel3sel3 Member Posts: 33
    Thanks for your comments, they are very helpful.

    I am currently working with XPel to see if they will modify the kit so I can install two pieces of film once I remove the front license plate.

    Thanks again,

    SEL3
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