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BMW 5-Series Sedans



  • many miles you got? lol hehe :)
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I just got home from my London-Paris-London trip last night (at midnight), and have been doing a little catch-up. First off, thanks to all of you for your kind words. ;-)

    On this trip I encountered a few tidbits that I thought y'all might enjoy.

    I picked up a magazine in the lobby of my hotel in Paris and found the published prices for the 6 cylinder E60 for France:

    525i (Petrol): 42,000 Euros
    530i (Petrol): 45,000 Euros
    530d (Diesel): 41,000 Euros

    Hmmm, am I missing something? Unless the 530d is de-contented when compared to the 525i and the 530i, how is it that it costs less? If I remember correctly, the published specs for the 530d rank it right behind the 530i in acceleration off the line, and even faster than the 530i above 40 mph. Go figure.

    Speaking of diesels (part 1); I rode in one of the new W211 E-Class cabs again on this trip. I hailed it at something like 4:30 AM Monday morning for a ride from the Gare du Nord area to Charles de Gaulle airport. When we started rolling, I immediately noticed that this one was a diesel just like the E220 CDI that I rode in back in April; however, it felt somewhat faster. When we merged onto the autoroute we were following some other traffic up the ramp, and as we hit the main roadway, my driver opened it up, and I was stunned at how fast that thing went from 60 kph (a little less than 40 mph) to 160+ (100 mph and then some). When we got to the airport the driver turned to me while patting his steering wheel and said, "What do you think of my new taxi?" I told him that I loved it. While retrieving my baggage, I noticed that I had been riding in a new E320 CDI. Hmmm, given my dislike of the new E60, maybe by the time the lease is up on my 2002 530i, MB-USA will be importing that thing; I would buy one in a minute.

    Speaking of diesels (part 2), on my flight home from London yesterday, I was seated next to a Petroleum Engineer who works for UOP (I think that used to stand for "Universal Oil Products"). Anybody out there remember the black "UOP Shadow" Can-Am car? If you do not, check out Anyway, this individual does a lot of work on figuring out the process for removing sulpher from fuel, specifically diesel fuel. Cool! I had to ask, "Why is it that Europe has Low Sulpher Diesel already available and we will not be able to get it for several more years?"

    His response was a little surprising, "Well, actually, Europe and the U.S. use the same basic diesel fuel. The difference is in their legislation. In the U.S., the government is reticent at best to legislate standards that are as yet unobtainable, in Europe, they write the legislation so that it spells out what the standard should be, and they hope it gets there sooner or later. Basically, Europe uses Low Sulpher Diesel simply because their laws and standards say it is."

    Needless to say, I was shocked. Everything I have read regarding diesel fuel indicated (to me anyway) that Europe was using a different flavor than us.

    Best Regards,
  • jb_shinjb_shin Posts: 357
    You know what is even funnier? 530d that costs less than 530i brand new out the showroom actually will be more expensive as a used car, at least that is the trend in Germany.
  • seivwrigseivwrig Posts: 388
    The E320 CDI will be brought to the US. I think as soon as 2004
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Cool! That said, I forgot about one very important criteria (at least for me). Will I be able to get an E320 CDI with a manual transmission? Probably not. Oh well, back to looking for a nice condition CPO 2003 M5 or a 540i 6-Speed. ;-)

    Best Regards,
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,207
    On three business trips a year or so ago I had occasion to rent turbo-diesels (sorry for the redundancy), two Audis & a VW. Hey, what can I say -- BMW's aren't rented by National.

    Anyway, I learned very quickly that they perform very well and use very little fuel, relatively speaking. I'd buy a BMW diesel in a heartbeat, if any were available over here.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    shipo... Are those prices inclusive of various taxes? Wondering if the diesel doesn't get some fuel or economy tax break (or the petrol engines get some fuel or economy tax penalty). Is their a French or EU gas guzzler tax? Fuel economy reward?
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    Americans want cheap fuel, both petrol and diesel. Compare our fuel prices and fuel taxes to their European counterparts. Heavy trucking interests dominate US fuel legislation. These big firms can use umpteen millions of gallons of diesel annually. If low sulphur fuel costs (and it does since TANSTAAFL), even if just a few pennies a gallon, those interests are going to resist it as long as they can. And most American motorists aren't into diesels yet. Plus GM and Ford have lagged in diesels so they need time to catch up. Delaying standards might be win-win for these big players?
  • I read in an article that the new M5 has throttle bodies for each of the 8 cylinders and they made them larger, as well as add 30,000 in upgrades so now its an 105,000 luxury car with the speed of a rocket. I'd like to know if the 1990-93 M5 has the same upgrades available through Dinan or AC Schnitzer and would the 1991 version have those throttle bodies for each cylinder? Would it improve the car's performance if I added a supercharger or a Twin-turbocharger? Would the car run even faster if I used NOS along with a CO2 (Cold Compressed Air) Kit? Or would the chemicals add together and slow the car down? What kinds of upgrades would you place on a transmission, manual or automatic, to be able to use it for high speeds?
         Can someone also tell me what is the differences between the 1991 m5 and a 5 series of the same year? Would it be possible to officially call a 5 series an M5 if the original M5 engine, "brains" and trans were placed into a 5 series that originally had a 2.5L or 3.0L V6 engine and a manual transmission?
          Also, I watched on World's Wildest Police Chases about a black 1990 BMW M3 coupe w/ 240 HP beat a new LT1 Camaro police car w/ upgrades and 350HP. After the camaro slid off the road after chasing the 15 year old car theif at 150 mph, 15 minutes later, the BMW broke down but I don't know the reason. Can you tell me how to modify a 1991 5 series or M5 in anyway to keep the engine keeping a sustanted maximum speed and yet not destroy itself?
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    joyrider147... You wrote, "Would it be possible to officially call a 5 series an M5 if the original M5 engine, "brains" and trans were placed into a 5 series that originally had a 2.5L or 3.0L V6 engine and a manual transmission?" No.

    M5 is more than just the engine and transmission. And I believe BMW M vehicles have their own VIN number (forget which digit(s) theirs). Think what you are proposing might cost a small fortune. You'd likely be better off either just buying a used M5 or aftermarket modifying the non-M5 car (Dinan chip, low restriction exhaust, better tires, lighter wheels, upgrade brakes, etc.).
  • seivwrigseivwrig Posts: 388
    Sorry that I cannot answer your technical questions as far as modifications. Generally speaking the M cars have engine mods, suspension mods and some interior mods with a different wheel package. All M cars are manual transmissions. As far as the difference between a 91 M5 and a regular 5er (probably 535i), I would have to check the BMW brochure for that particular year (I might not have that brochure since those were college years or it might be Euro specs). If I went for the mods, you might want to find out if any of the German tuners have done turbochargers or superchargers for a 90's model 5er. Maybe a cam swap might also help.
    As far as aftermarket mods, most of the German tuners/manufactures tend to get more out of the engine that BMW Motorsports but at a price. The M cars tend to be a bargain when compared to what AC Schnitzer, Hamann, Alpina, Racing Dynamics, and Hartge will cost. On the flip side, I have scene a side by side comparison on TV of a E46 M3 with the Alpina and I believe, Hamann counterparts. The M3 did lag. None the less the M cars are excellent and I would love to own one.
  • Gents (and ladies):

    I have heard that the engine on a 530 is below the quality of the 525, and despite the less power, the 525 is the choice between the two. Do you agree, disagree? Also please don't shred me...I am a bit of a novice here, and wan't to verify what I have heard before I purchase. Thanks.
  • diver110diver110 Posts: 67
    I am in Germany at the moment for a family reunion. One sees plenty of BMW's around. One interesting fact is that a high percentage do not have the number designation at the back. A cab driver told me that in Germany you have the option of ordering the car without it, might keep the thieves guessing as well as the police if you have a hot one--of course the fact that you have no number might make people think it is better. It might make more sense to have a fake number. There also seem to be some models we don't have.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I have heard that the engine on a 530 is below the quality of the 525, and despite the less power, the 525 is the choice between the two.

    Ummm, I am not quite sure what you mean by "below the quality", however, I think one would be hard pressed to prove that the 2.5 liter mill has fewer problems or lasts longer than the 3.0 liter engine. Why? Simple, the two engines are virtually identical, with the only significant difference being the crank shaft (longer throws) and the connecting rods (shorter length), which is what gives the 3 liter engine the extra .5 liter of displacement.

    Regarding the power, the 530i has considerably greater low end torque, and makes for a much more pleasing driving experience when compared to the 525i.

    Best Regards,
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,207
    no doubt that the majority of the BMW's driven in Germany don't have any badging whatsoever. Whether the engine is a 1.5 or a 3.0 is a mystery to all but those who know/care.

    When I asked a business associate about this, his reply was something to the effect of "those who care know -- who cares about the others?"

    Not bad words to live by.

    There are those who drive BMW's who would beg to differ. It'll be fun to hear from them.
  • seivwrigseivwrig Posts: 388
    Debadging does have its advantages in Europe. I wish that I had the option number for de-badging at the time. You also tend to find fewer 2.5 and 3.0 litre engines on the 3er and 5er. Most of the time, I was 320s and 520s. Even the DTM cars are 320s
  • srfastsrfast Posts: 138
    with either BMW I6 engine. As Shipo states, these two power plants are identical in design and the only difference is in displacement resulting in different power output. All five of the BMWs my family currently own are I6 powered and none of us have ever experienced an engine related problem. I personally own a 2003 530i and think it is one of the best cars on the road today. BTW, Wards Auto World named the BMW 3.0L engine one of the top 10 engines for 2003.

    Hope this helps....
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    For those in love with rack-and-pinion steering, you'll love these words from the July 2003 issue of Automobile: "The 540i's recirculating-ball steering is history." They rave about the new "active rack-and-pinion steering system". AFS is part of optional Sport Pkg. All the others come with rack-and-pinion steering, too. They appear to love the driving experience of the new 5 Series. As they put it, it "drives brillantly."

    Following words made my spirits soar: "Overall weight is down by as much as 165 pounds, so the 530i weighs about 3500 pounds."

    Too bad the Sport Pkg uses run-flat tires!
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,111

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,569
    ...double Blech!
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