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BMW 5-Series Sedans

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  • kennynmdkennynmd Posts: 424
    I'm going to VOB tomorrow to see the 325Ci that I saw on line. I'll tell everyone about the experience. Riez...I just heard that Carfax isn't reliable. I just didn't want to waste my money. you act like I'm taking your money.
  • cbs03cbs03 Posts: 9
    Our family recently bought a 2001 525i (auto) with around 30,000 miles on it. (We saw the '03 factory to dealer incentives and all, but got a great deal on this as well).

    I understand BMW 5 series ranks in the middle of the pack in terms of reliability. While some may only keep their cars a few years, we usually like to keep cars for quite a while. I understand that any car will need it's share of maintenance, but how many miles do you think I can put on this BMW comfortably? The low 100,000 mile range is what I was hoping for, but only if it is financially smart to do so (from a maintenance standpoint). What do you all think?
    Thanks in advance!
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    Count your lucky stars that your idiot dealer DIDN'T apply additional undercoat. The OEM BMW coating is first-rate, and any aftermarket trash sprayed on top of it could void your BMW warranty. "Touch of Class"? Gag. I hope they didn't hose you too bad for the rest of the junk in the package; I bet the markup is 300% or better.
  • joatmonjoatmon Posts: 315
    Well, we just sold out 17 year old, 197k 528e. Yes, we spend a lot of money on maintenace. But the car was very comfortable, reliable, and durable. The paint and leather looked as good as any 4 or 5 year old car out there. And at the end of its day with us, I would not have hesitated to take it on a cross country trip. We found that the maintenance cost sure beat the cost of buying a new one. And, if properly maintained, the performance level stays near the level when new. That 17 year old square box would still stop quicker than a new clonemobile.

    Now, many people would not like putting an average of $800 a year (done at the dealer) in maintenance. And that's OK. But if you aren't prepared for that outlay, then I'd suggest going the Japanese (Honda/Toyota/Nissan/Mazda) route.

    BTW, we have a new 530i and X5. We think that's the way to go. We fully expect to get similar service levels from these new ones.

    Happy Motoring,

    Jack
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    kennynmd... You wrote, "I just heard that Carfax isn't reliable. I just didn't want to waste my money. You act like I'm taking your money."

    You should do some research on Carfax. Consumer Reports and others have published some analysis of their methods and data. Like any data collection and dissemination system that relies on others (e.g., on 50 State DOT systems, etc.), it won't be perfect. Nothing is. But it is one of the better systems consumers have to track this type data. We are all better off having it than not having it. People who scam others buying and re-selling garbage cars fear these type services. Makes their scamming much harder.

    I'd like to see Carfax survive and prosper. I've paid for and used their service a couple times. Paid the fee and got the unlimited checks for 60 days. A great, cheap investment. Anyone who can afford a BMW can afford to pay their own Carfax report. If everyone takes from Carfax by getting someone to give them a report, how will Carfax survive or prosper? Then will they be around when I need them?
  • Hi I'm new to this forum and I'm looking for info/advice regarding BMW. I'm currently in the market for a pre-owned 2000-2001 528 BMW and I was hoping to get some data of what I can expect to pay in the real mkt. I've done lots of research with the help of consumer reports & edmunds.com, however, the numbers don't seem to come close to what dealers are asking. A 2000 with 39000 miles is going for 31K. Is this right? With the current economic status and the fact that the new 5series will be out in another mnth or so, I would think the mkt value of this type is not as strong. It's also hard for me to believe that in 4 yrs the depreciation of this car is roughly only 20%. All my data tells me 27K is more than reasonable. Please advice. In addition, I am looking to trade in my 1994 325IS with 138000 miles, avg to good condition. Could anyone tell me what I can really expect to get for this car? Thanks.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    sixers76... Concur that their initial price is a bit high. But that is the way nearly all used car sellers work. Hoping they'll find someone who will pay it. What the car is actually worth is what they'll sell it for on a given day. Much is based on supply and demand. That varies by region.

    Make 'em an offer. Worse that will happen is they say no. But they may take it. Or you may end up somewhere in between. Remember, everything is negotiable. Knowledge is power. Try to have fun.

    You don't say what kind of options this car has. Makes a difference if it is a base no-option car versus a fully loaded car with PP, SP, etc. What was this car's original MSRP? Keep in mind the car is still under full b-to-b warranty until the end of the full 4/50 period. I'm also assuming it is CPO, which gets you an additional 2/50 of CPO warranty.
  • cbs03cbs03 Posts: 9
    I don't consider myself very expert, but here is some recent experience: We recently bought a 2001 525i with around 30,000 miles on it for $28,500. However, this was not from BMW so it is not certified pre-owned. That was the best deal I found by far, though. Certified was a couple of thousand more. The '01 530i was priced for sure over $30k as I recall.

    I was offered a '00 528i with 30,000 miles for $28,000 (BMW certified) without much negotiation. Let them know you know you can get a brand new 525 '03 for around $36k with the $3,500 factory to dealer incentives going on. There is more info on this incentive in the "BMW 5-series Prices Paid" area. Autotrader.com has many used listings, so you can also get a good idea of what the going asking prices are. Good luck!
  • riez... Thanks for your feedback. Here are the list of options: Front Shoulder Harness, Driver's Airbag, Passenger Airbag, Front Side Impact Air Bag, Traction Control, Anti-lock Brakes, Master Window Lock, Rear Shoulder Harness, Electric Sunroof, Power Driver Seat, Power Windows, Power Locks, Power Mirrors, Tilt Wheel, Cruise Control, Tinted Glass, Intermittent Wipers, Vanity Mirror, Side Door Arm Rest, Clock, Map Light, Console, Cup Holder, Map Pocket, Trip Computer, Climate Control, Bucket Seats, Leather Seats, Recline/Lounge Seats, Carpet, Water Temperature Gauge, Trip Set, Tachometer, Remote Radio Control, Heated Seats (2), Leather Steer Wheel, Woodgrain, Alloy Wheels, Dual Mirrors, Quality Tires. From what I was able to determine all of these for maybe the exception of side air bags and leather were standard in 2000. The original MSRP was $38900. It is a CPO car.
  • Thanks! That's great feedback. Having this information will come in handy during negotiations. Thanks again.
  • karmikankarmikan Posts: 116
    Part of an article from an English newspaper:

    EVEN George Orwell would have choked. Government officials are drawing up plans to fit all cars in Britain with a personalised microchip so that rule-breaking motorists can be prosecuted by computer.
    Dubbed the “Spy in the Dashboard” and “the Informer” the chip will automatically report a wide range of offences including speeding, road tax evasion and illegal parking. The first you will know about it is when a summons or a fine lands on your doormat.
    The plan, which is being devised by the government, police and other enforcement agencies, would see all private cars monitored by roadside sensors wherever they travelled. Police working on the “car-tagging” scheme say it would also help to slash car theft and even drug smuggling.
    It also notes that cars driven by terrorist suspects or drug smugglers could be monitored even in Europe if, as officials in Brussels envisage, EVI is introduced across the European Union.
    The DfT has hired management consultants to co-ordinate the development of the system, which it is thought could become operational by 2007.
    The government is likely to face opposition from motoring groups. “We need to have an open discussion about what this technology is being used for, who is being tracked and for what purpose, and what could be the hidden agenda,” said Bert Morris, deputy director of the AA Motoring Trust.
    Liberty, the civil rights organisation, said: “This could turn every driver into a potential suspect.” It warned that motorists’ details held on a central computer could form the basis of a “stalkers’ charter” if accessed by hackers.

    Let's hope that none of the do-gooder "nannies" in N. America like this idea and hook onto it.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,850
    Don't get the navi... it works both ways...

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • hoopsrefhoopsref Posts: 140
    Even though you are not looking at a new '03 530, you might want to read the posts I & others have written about the incentives. This may help you when negotiating on a used one. You tell the dealers that a new is only "$x,xxx" more, surely you can much better than that.
    Check posts: 299, 302, 307, 359 in prices paid as a start. New 2003 530's @ $39K with full waranty... Good luck. How are the Sixers going to do without Brown this year?
  • is reading between the lines. Yeah, it'll show you the "total" or the "rollback" but unscrupulous sellers probably try to get around this.

    One thing I have seen is cars registered many times in different states between private owners. That's a sign the car's a dud. Also, if a car is registered with 47525 and the next time it is registered with 47526, you should be suspicious.
  • Thanks for your remarks. Sorry you got the short end of it. I'll be on the look-out for any such irregularities when my car gets to the dealership. And reporting them here. I might be able to understand not filling the tank. But the rest seems like common courtesy and good relations, and your expectations seem reasonable. Did you make any complaints to anyone other than Sterling sales? How about BMWNA? Write a letter to the dealership owners?
  • vsaxenavsaxena Posts: 201
    I am thinking of splurging on a 5 series. I am considering a low milage (< 20K) 2000 528; the other option is to go and get a brand new 525.
    The 528 is a private party deal and would cost about $9K less than the new 525.

    In terms of performance and handling do the extra 300 cc on the 528 engine make a difference vs the 525? What about other features which may have changed between 2000 and 2003. To me fun to drive and safety are the top concerns. According to Edmunds the used 528 is going to be about 10% cheaper to own than the new 525. What will clinch the deal is if the comparable 528 has a better driver (the 528 has sports + prem + cwp). I plan to get a 525 with (sports + prem + rear air bags).
  • hoopsrefhoopsref Posts: 140
    Read the posts on prices paid section for new 525 pricing. Keep in mind the new 525's have a factory to dealer incentive of $3500 until the end of the month. So you can get a new one for about $2,500 BELOW invoice!!! Where is the pricing on the used one? How much is the new warranty worth? You will get a lower finance rate on the new one, also. We have beat this topic (incentives...) to death the last two months, so take some time to catch up. You won't regret it.
  • Thanks for your feedback. I think signing Coleman was a step in the right direction. Now all we can do is hope that he still has that same fire he had during the playoffs last year. I think Ayers will do fine, whether or not he can control Iverson is still unknown. Most likely will be a rebuilding year.
  • I'm currently in the market for a 2000 528i. After some negotiating I received an offer from the dealer for a 2000 528i with 39K miles with additional options which include: leather, moonroof and heated front seats for $28,900. Does this seem reasonable? Please help... I personally think it's still a bit too high.
  • vsaxenavsaxena Posts: 201
    The numbers I presented include all incentives. I am looking at a 2003 525 with Premium + Sport at $38-39K. The 2000 528 is immaculate, has some more options thrown in and I could probably get between $27-$29K with 18.6K miles.

    A 5 yr/100000 mile (which translates to a 5 yr/80000) bumper to bumper (after market) warranty can be had for $2500ish for the 2000 528. Financing is probably not a significant issue in my case.

    For me the driving experience and the safety equipment is the primary decision criteria for 2000 528 vs. the 2003 525. Are the extra 300cc worth getting a used car? How about the other driving experience/safety related stuff? Any obvious styling issues which make one better than the other?
  • hoopsrefhoopsref Posts: 140
    HEre is what I come up with for the price of the car with the options you listed above: Invoice (with MACO) $39,250. Now you must DEDUCT the incentive of $3500 which brings you to $35,750. THis is your starting point. $36,750 is a doable number. See my prior posts 299, 302, 307, 359 in the prices paid section for more details. Good luck.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,850
    I was offered a 2000 528i with 40K miles from a private party for $25K.. that was in March. Equipped the same as the one you are looking at. This was a car that was put in service in March of 2000. Depending on the in-service date, you could be out of warranty in as little as a couple months. The asking price on that car seems awfully high. I think you'll find that the market has really dropped on used 5 series in the last couple of months, mostly due to the incentives on the new ones.
     All that said, I think you would definitely see a power difference between the two cars. If you go for the 2000 model, I'd shoot for $23-25K, unless buying certified, then maybe a couple K more.....

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • vsaxenavsaxena Posts: 201
    I think I forgot to mention the auto tranny (I kind of took it for granted). $44,155 MSRP, $40,450 INVOICE - 3500 + profit... (38-39K).

    The 2000 528 has less than 20K miles and a bunch of extra goodies (sports spoiler which may have been a part of the sports package, CD changer etc.). Also I may not be able to get the exact goodies for the new 525 so may have to pay extra for stuff I do notwant.
    The key still remains the driving experience..
  • msealsmseals Posts: 257
    I am not an expert on the subject because I won't be in the car buying mode until next year, but I have been dabling with prices on 5ers this year to see where they are at. I plan on upgrading my CPO 98 528 to a 01 530 in a year or so. That being said, I think that the price you got, $28k, is a bit high for a 528. Yeah the mileage is low, and it has a lot of goodies, but I got my 98 528 for $16,500 back in October of last year and I couldn't be happier. I got a 5 sp, which was hard to find for me, and leather, pp, moonroof (it wasn't included back then), CWP with heated steering wheel. Sticker for the car was $46,700. I have the stock 15" wheels which are driving me crazy, but I plan on changing them after this winter. I am not too sure about the power difference between the 528 and 525 when going with an automatic. The raw numbers point to the 528, but from what I heard, the torque comes on sooner in the 525, I might be wrong. Maybe some engine experts on the board here can shed some light.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    Notice that the 5 Series is blowing out the door right now. Outselling last year. Notice the huge increase in July sales!

    7 Series doing OK but not improving on sales from last year.

    Units Sold in USA, ranked by July 2003 Sales Volume:
     
    Make Model July 2003 July 2002 2003 YTD 2002 YTD

    BMW 3 Series 5,984 5,282 42,268 39,535
    BMW 5 Series 5,022 3,195 26,192 23,664
    BMW 7 Series 1,595 2,094 11,530 12,837
    BMW M5 122 146 1,180 1,102
  • vsaxenavsaxena Posts: 201
    What do you think would be a good price for a 2000 528 which has an Edmunds private party value of $30K? I think this price does not reflect the current incentives for the new cars.
  • FWIW, I spent 3 months scouring all of southern Michigan for 2000 528's. This was from April through June of this year, and at one point I was getting quotes from 6 different dealerships. Not that I'm an expert by any means, but I consider myself a pretty decent negotiator for used cars (fully researching blue and black book and edmunds prices, bargaining one dealership against the other, etc). At the end of the day, these were the best deals that I was offered:

    (1) 2000 528, non-CPO, 32K mi, PP, SP, CWP for $28,900 (originally asking $31,900);

    (2) 2000 528, CPO, 48K mi, PP, CWP for $27,500 (originally asking $28,900);

    (3) 2000 528, CPO, 40K mi, PP, SP, CWP for $29,000 (originally asking $29,900).

    I thought these offers were mediocre. My last used car was negotiated down from $25,000 to $19,000, but it wasn't a bimmer. It was really hard to get any price movement, because there were very few used 5ers available when I was shopping. I had little leverage because of that short supply (I still don't understand why so few 5ers were for sale). Anyway, all of the dealerships seemed to hit a same basement price of around $28K or $29K, depending on the options.

    I ended up ditching the CPO market and opting for an '03 525 for just a few grand more than the 2000 CPO's. I would think that by now, with the incentives on the '03 5er being so well publicized, the CPO market must be softer. However, I still look at used 5 series prices for old times sake, and the dealerships are still hanging onto those same asking prices. Maddening. Why buy CPO, when a few grand more gets you a new one? I know the 528 is a slightly stronger engine than my 525, but IMO both the 528 and 525 suck in comparison to the 530, so who cares.

    Good luck. Just my two cents.......
  • kennynmdkennynmd Posts: 424
    I went to VOB BMW again and got the same crappy service again! I went there and walked around the showroom and the lot for about a half an hour and no one came over to talk to me. This is the second time this has happened to me. I left and ended up going to Tischer BMW in Silver Spring. I got great service , got the car I wanted, and the price I wanted. All took and hour or so. Great buying experience. The salesman was great as well. If anyone is interested in going there, e-mail me. Antways I ended up getting a 325Ci. MSRP was $37,095. I ended up getting it for 34k out the door. taxes tags and all.Thanks everyone for all the help. aventhough this is the 5-series forum and I ebded up getting a 3-series. Thanks again.!
  • hoopsrefhoopsref Posts: 140
    Interesting info. Do you have a breakdown by model (i.e. 525, 530 & 540's)? Obviously the incentives are the big reason as well the "new" design not being universally accepted. Speaking of which, I read an article in Automobile & / or C & D about the design... with the pres. of BMW (or some other "grand pooba" of marketing...). He said the design is here to stay (it may stay right in their showrooms & factories), it is revolutionary (it may cause a revolution) and Bangle is doing a good job, blah, blah blah and he is not going anywhere (cuz if he leaves the building in daylight, he may get stoned)Stoned! That's it. He must have got a hold of really good stuff. It reminds of the story of the Emperor's new clothes. If they keep telling us it's cool and futuristic... then maybe we will believe it. Since I have not seen it in person, I guess I should wait to pass judgement. I guess if the driving experience is great, we'll forget about the looks.....nah! Not us crazy Americans. Style, baby, style.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    hoopsref... That data is for sedans only. No breakdown by individual model. Historically for E39 sedans, 540i has only been about 15%. 530i about 50%. 525i about 35%. For 3 Series, the 325i handily outsells the 330i.
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