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BMW 5-Series Sedans

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  • srfastsrfast Posts: 138
    Because of the standard BMW Assist feature, the only mobile phones BMW is offering is the hardwired CPT9000 (Motorola V60) phone. Here's a link: http://www.circlebmw.com/cgi-bin/acc/acc.cgi?db=acc&uid=&- Series=E60&Code=117&Partnumber=&view_records=Search

    Bluetooth cannot coexist with the BMW Assist system on current production cars, but will be supported on 09/2004 and later built cars.

    Hope this helps....JL
  • savorasavora Posts: 25
    Thanks srfast,
    i got similar information. i contacted bmw of north america. They told me that bluetooth technology will be available in cars this fall, and current cars can be retrofitted. (she did not know the cost of that). Currently cpt9000 phones will work , however they don't seem to work with sprint service.

    About the sound system, Logic 7 is lexicon technology that is owned by harman kardon, it is able to create surround sound simulation from 2 channel output. Sounds great. I went to the dealer and compared the two. At low listening levels, it is difficult to discern between the two, but as it gets louder, there is a clear difference with reverb and loss of clarity heard in the standard system. Since I like my music on the louder side, I think it may be worth the upgrade.

    thanks again
  • infinitimninfinitimn Posts: 137
    Pardon me for cross-posting, but there is little activity on the correct board for this question. If anyone has bought/leased a 2004 530 or 525 in Northern NJ/NYC recently, how far over dealer invoice was the selling price/capitalized cost?
  • diver110diver110 Posts: 67
    I have been in the market for an M5 for a bit. Doing a little research, waiting to sell my 540i. I friend of mind suggested I drive the Audi S4. Comparing it to the M5 is a bit apples and pears, but I would take the S4 in a heart beat over the M3. The S4 has significantly more torque, is only slightly slower, comes in a 4 door, and is better appointed. Against the M5 is a different story. The S4 and the M5 weigh about the same, though the S4 is about the size of the M3 (the all wheel drive system on the S4 increases the weight significantly), but the M5 is a bigger and in some ways more confortable car. Then again the S4 has a more modern design and the all wheel drive handling (notwithstanding a 55-45 weight distribution) was fabulous. I think BMW needs to worry about Audi giving it a run for its money. There is also the Audi RS6, more comparable to the M5 size-wise, but then you are really talking big bucks. BTW, a new S4 costs about the same as a 2001 M5.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "Comparing it to the M5 is a bit apples and pears, but I would take the S4 in a heart beat over the M3."

    But isn't that what compromises are all about? The M3 is a hard-edged near-luxury racer that has been called the best GT ever. The mission of the M5 and M3 are completely different, although they both have the same high-end and approx. the same 0-60. Just like the EVO/Sti all these cars go about their business in a unique fashion. It's up the buyer to decide on the qualities and qualifications of their purchase. Not to mention the new M5 Concept, which is out, if one can believe the hoopla is promising to set a new standard. But then so is Audi.
  • diver110diver110 Posts: 67
    kdshapiro wrote: "But isn't that what compromises are all about? The M3 is a hard-edged near-luxury racer that has been called the best GT ever."

    Well it depends what you want. If you do your driving on a race track, the M3 might be the way to go. But in regular driving I would take the torque of the S4 over the M3. Then there are the practical considerations like 4 doors. My sense is that the S4 meets more people's needs than the M3, though there is the issue that Audi tends to be less reliable than BMW.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Diver110… I drove the S4. Really liked it and am a big fan of AWD.

    People usually think snow when considering AWD. Of course nothing compares to AWD in snow, not even close. But what I like equally is its ability in rain. I turn into a completely different driver in rain and can't stand that feeling of hydroplaning and the unpredictability of wet roads. AWD drive cars are supremely more confident here.

    That said, I'd give up the bad-weather utility of AWD and still take the M5… feels more connected to the road and corners in my opinion (although AWD has much better traction in corners). Then, any sport-driving time lost due to inclement weather would be compensated with the absence-makes-the-heart-grow-fonder deal. Think of how much better that sun feels after two straight weeks of rain. Yep, these southern Cal people just don't KNOW what they're missing with our abstinence-laden NE winters!

    ;-)
  • rob22rob22 Posts: 1
    Help! I am currently looking to purchase my first BMW and found a smoking deal on the above mentioned car. It runs and looks great. I am however nervous about it becoming a money pit. Anything in particular I should be looking for?

    Also, what would a responable offer for this vehicle be?

    Thanks for the feed back.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Ummm, I think that the 240K miles is enough smoke out of that exhaust pipe. ;-) Not that it won't be able to make many more, however, that's a lot of miles and that usually translates to lots of maintenance, on ANY car. Unless the car was something like say, $5,000, I'd be inclined to pass.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    I'm with Shipo; that 5er wouldn't be a bad choice if you are a competent DIY guy AND the price is around $5K. I'm sure you could find a nice 1997 528i with <100K miles for under $12K.
  • warthogwarthog Posts: 216
    I've never driven AWD, but I'm having a hard time understanding how AWD is better in rain, particularly in hydroplaning conditions. Isn't that purely a tire factor and not related to how those tires are driven?
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    I can't see how it can be purely a tire factor when there are traction dynamics working with an infinite variety of physical conditions.

    There are lots of opinions floating around with regard to AWD and hydroplaning. I certainly can't find anything that is definitive and scientific. So I'm left with my own empirical observations. I could go into detail about what I think is happening in a variety of situations but this would go on forever. Bottom line is that I find much more control on wet roads with the Subaru and others report the same with AWD cars.

    When testing a car with AWD it is next to impossible to get a real feel for its capabilities in rain. However, what I can suggest for a test drive is this. When it's wet out, find a spot that has a turn into a fairly steep hill. From a stop, take a RWD car and accelerate aggressively, but not overly-aggressively into the turn and hill. Your rear wheels will be spinning and fishtailing. Then take the AWD drive test car to the same spot, do the same and notice the difference. (Ideally, the comparison should be between cars with similar torque, weight, and the same tires.)

    By the way, hydroplaning with cars is defined as a tire losing complete contact with the road and riding the water. Let's not forget that on wet roads there are many types of situations that can provide infinite degrees of decreasing contact pressure until a tire or tires hydroplane. I would also qualify this as hydroplaning or at least undergoing the hydroplaning effect, or approaching hydroplaning.
  • stl540stl540 Posts: 67
    If I remember correctly, the annual price increase of an existing BMW model is typically less than the inflation rate. For example, I think the price increase on my 2002 540i was a few hundred dollars more than the 2001 540i. Anyone remember the base price of the 540i for MY 1997? Curious to see the percentage increase from 1997 - 2003 for the E39.

    As a side note...I was next to a 2004 Lincoln Aviator (remember...a midsize SUV) with the sticker still attached and MSRP was a whopping $54K. I was shocked. I am not trying to degrade the Aviator, but $54K+ for a midsize Lincoln?!?!
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,294
    you need to remember is that BMW's typically go for a price somewhere between invoice and sticker, while many (if not most) Lincolns go for less than invoice, often many thousands less.

    I'm not sure why they do it, but they do. Town Cars and LS's that go for $10K off sticker are not all that uncommon. I'm not so sure about the trucks, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were similar. I guess it helps maintain an artificial "exclusive" image to those who don't pay much attention.
  • diver110diver110 Posts: 67
    I have a 540it now and decided that is too pedestrian, so I plan to upgrade. As I mentioned in prior posts, I have thought about the M5 or even Audi S4, but I might just go with a newer 540i with a sport's package. I am not entirely clear on what the sports package includes, tighter suspension and performance tires? How much of it is in the tires? Would it make more sense to get it without the sports package (harder to find) or do an after market upgrade (possibly better parts?). Thanks.

    As an aside, when I bought my 540it I got a good deal on it. One of the reasons I bought is was I thought I could easily get my money out of it. But while I did get a good deal, the combination of going out of warranty and perhaps the new BMW model means the car dropped around 25-30% in value in a year (but only around 10-15% from what I paid, $30,500 for a 2000 with under 30,000 miles on purchase 10 months ago).
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    stl540... When looking at price changes over time you have to take into account at least three factors:

    1. Any changes in standard/optional equipment. Over time, most cars, including E39 5 Series, added standard equipment.

    2. Changes in per unit production costs based on amortization/depreciation of plant & equipment and development costs, as well as changes to per unit production over time as they "learn" how to build the car for less and get better deals from suppliers. The per unit production cost of E39 5 Series declined throughout the production run. The initial cars are the most expensive for the company to manufacturer. Per unit costs fall over time.

    3. Exchange rate changes: When the E39 was introduced in CY1996 as a MY1997, Germany still used Deutsche Mark (though the EU was going thru an adjustment period prior to the Euro's introduction). During the E39 production run, the DM went away and was replaced by the Euro. The Euro started out at about 1 Euro=$1.17. Euro fell to about $.88. In past 2 years it has risen 50%, so it is now closer to $1.25.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    diver110... Are you talking 540i6 or 540ia? The 540i6 essentially came standard with the Sport Pkg. The contents of the Sport Pkg changed over time.

    The 540ia Sport added the numerically higher (3.15:1) final drive. This improved acceleration compared to the other automatics (with the 2.82:1 final drive) but also reduced fuel economy. The 540ia Sport suffered from gas guzzler tax like the 540i6.

    A big plus for Sport Pkg is the Sport Seats! Sometimes owners opted for the optional Comfort Seats. Sport Pkg cars come with bigger, high performance (summer/3-season) tires and revised suspension components.

    Regardless of car, any 5 Series will benefit from the Sport Pkg. Only way to go!
  • dwightexdwightex Posts: 16
    In spite of a planned trip to Germany in May, my wife and I chose not to purchase a 530. We just couldn't warm up to it.

    Volvo s60R has 300 HP and great styling, pretty good handling.

    May decide to get a used 530 next Jan.

    thanks for all of the great posts on the BMW site
  • ny540i6ny540i6 Posts: 518
    Could you define "better parts?" And the SP does include a few different suspension bits, at least in '03. In addition, wheel/tire sizing is larger.
  • diver110diver110 Posts: 67
    Out of curiosity, everything else being equal, would all-wheel drive handle better than rear wheel? If so, why haven't more companies gone to it? Expense.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    I think it's a matter of demand. Yet Audi and Subaru are convinced.

    One of these days I expect AWD to get a lot of PR. When this happens it should take off. It's safer and has better performance for every day driving.

    The only hit against it is a marginal difference in acceleration and extra weight. I point to the slightly lower acceleration time between the Porsches C2 and C4S. Yet the AWD C4S is very desirable among enthusiasts and has the highest resale value among Porsches and every car on the face of the earth.

    I expect to see more AWD sedans in the future. Aside from the all-weather advantages, cornering under power with AWD is unbeatable. I don't think BMW has hitchhiked onto it because it doesn't fit their techie agenda and they have their irons in too many fires as it is. Glad to see MB and others option it.

    Is that S4 beckoning?
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I respectfully disagree somewhat with designman. I believe a front engine, RWD car will perform (i.e. handle at the extreme) better than AWD on dry, smooth pavement. In wet or worse conditions, AWD has an advantage. And in the rear engine set-up of the 911, AWD helps to balance out the weight distribution.

    I seriously doubt the overweight S4 would surpass the RWD M3 in handling on a dry track.

    Just my opinion, but formed from discussions with others that have far more engineering expertise than me.
  • manybmwsmanybmws Posts: 347
    Will be $100K. Start saving.
  • xmf314xmf314 Posts: 154
    I'm not sure if my piggy bank will hold that much money.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    It's all speculative, but my dealer contact who seems to have good information in advance of everyone else has given me an estimate of $75-80k. The M6 would be in the $85-90k. His response to $100k for the M5 is not printable.

    For what it's worth, he noted there has never been an "M" model that has sold for more than a $15-20k premium over the non-M version. In the case of the M3, it's more like $10-12k comparably equiped.

    He further suggested that if BMW intends to go for the over $100k market, it will be with another "unique" M model like the former M1 or not as well received Z8, NOT with an M5 or M6.

    No guarantee of accuracy here, but back a few years ago he had estimated the price of the M3 before it was officially set by BMW within $500 and he more recently estimated the price of the M6 within $1,000 ($69,000) when others were suggesting upwards of $85,000.
  • manybmwsmanybmws Posts: 347
    Not speculative when a dealer takes an order for one at $100K.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    Unfortunately, MSRP is not the upper limit on the price a buyer can pay for a rare or hot car! Dealers can charge what they want and get what buyers are willing to pay.
  • warthogwarthog Posts: 216
    I'm sure you can find more than one dealer happy to take an order for $200K!
  • diver110diver110 Posts: 67
    FWIW, I test drove the Audi S4. I thought is was a good car and handled well. I liked it better than the Mercedes 32 AMG or the M3 (latter had too little torque for my tastes), but I would still take my 540i over any of them in terms of handling (on dry pavement). What I don't know is if that is because RWD works better or BMW just makes a higher quality car, and if they made AWD it would be better still.
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