BMW 5-Series Sedans

diver110 · April 2004

So far, barely 24 hours, I really like it, much better handling and a little more power than the 540iT I traded (also better looking). I paid about $1,000 under KBB retail, $37,500 with 36,000 miles. It has about one year to go on the original warranty and then 2 years/100,000 CPO. CPO is hardly comprehensive, but it seems to cover all of the pricey stuff. I may upgrade with a Dinan 3.45 differential down the road when my bank balance builds back up.

dabimmer · April 2004

Hey, congratulations ! You will be happy with your choice. I have an '01 530iA and have loved it since day one and still enjoy it. It's a fantastic car.

ny540i6 · April 2004

Boy, there's a lot of interesting stuff that I am just catching up on! Work travel has been pretty intense recently... Missed the 5 a lot on the California leg; took the weekend and drop up I5 from LA to San Fran, overnighted, then drove back down US1 to LAX. The new Chrysler 300M is not bad, but needed the six speed. And the handling. And the power

Got off the redeye Monday morning, got in the car and drove to Boston - left great weather in Cali, to rain all the way from Newark to Copley Sq. But anyway... I'm interested in a few opinions please; I've been considering replacing the M sport split 5 spoke wheels on my '03 540 with the same wheel, but with a polished (NOT chromed) finish. I happen to really like the wheel design, and don't want to change to any other. Saw an ad in BIMMER for a company that sells both chome and polished M Sport 19" wheels, so I called to see if they offered the 18"s that I have. They don't. The nice gentleman asked if I was about to buy tires (I am), and suggested that this would then be the optimum time to go to a 19" wheel in the finish that I prefer. I understand the logic, however I am a little leery of going from a front 235/40 18, rear 265/35 18 to a front 245/35 19, rear 275/30 19 setup. I am not concerned with clearance, rubbing, or any of that, but more with ride feel, tramlining etc. Any thoughts?

Second, I am also interested in the discussion of the Goodyear GSD tires. My stock Dunlop SP 8000s did fine, and I would say I got about 22K miles out of them so far (I had snows on from November until a couple of weeks ago), but I want to try something else. Thanks.

shipo · April 2004

Sounds like we have been having similar traveling itineraries; in San Francisco 3rd week in March and again two weeks ago, sans 530i both times. :-( Then two round trips in the 530i from New Hampshire to New York totaling 8 days. Did you see me last Monday waving at you in the rain as I was heading south down I-84? ;-)

Regarding tires, I'm still on my snows. :-( What with the travel schedule, and then knocking a wheel weight off of a rim last weekend (more on that later) while I was cleaning the summer set, I'm going to have to wait until Monday (when I fetch the summer set back from being rebalanced) before I can put the OEM set back on. As for your 540i, I too would be more than a little leery about going to 19" wheels given the condition of roads in the NYC metro area. That could get expensive fast.

As a suggestion, you could either re-mount your winter set when your existing tires are done, and send that outfit your OEM wheels for polishing or wait until next fall and have your wheels polished then.

Regarding tires, I've been spending some time over on the "Tires, tires, tires" discussion, and found that there are a few regulars there that actually sell tires (including one from TireRack.com) and/or race regularly. Needless to say, there is lots of irrelevant information floating around over there (vis-a-vie 5-Series BMW anyway), however, a number of folks seem to think that the hot setup is to run the Yokohama AVS ES100 tires, as they stack up reasonably well with the Bridgestone Potenza S-03 Pole Position tires at only 64% of the cost. Their reasoning goes like this, "I can now afford to drive harder because these tires cost so much less." Also, depending upon who you listen to, the ES100s are some of the quietest tires out there, something that almost all E39 SP owners are interested in. ;-)

So, what to do, pop for the Goodyears, or give the Yokos a shot. By all accounts, both tires are far superior to the OEM Michelin Pilot Primacys that I will be running as of Monday. Now, on to the wheel weight; as I was cleaning some of the brake grime off of my rims with a wheel brush and some wheel cleaner, a very small weight on the inside edge of the wheel fell off. :-/ After finishing the cleaning process, I loaded all four wheels into the Green Monster (our 1998 3.8 Caravan errand/utility vehicle) and headed for our local BMW specialty shop. Unfortunately he was too busy to fit me in as he was preparing for a race, so I had to leave the wheels. When I told him what happened, without even looking at the wheels he asked me, Was it a weight on the inside edge of the wheel? Yup. Yeah, that happens all of the time, in most cases just from normal driving around. I was a little surprised, especially considering the fact that I had to knock off several fairly sizeable bits of asphalt that heat, stickiness and centrifugal force had conspired to attach to the inside of my rims. I figured that the centrifugal forces would hold the weights on basically forever.

I told you all of that to say this, Riez is always harping at us to get our wheels balanced and our cars aligned yearly, and here is just another reason to do so.

Best Regards,
Shipo

cassidym · May 2004

Pardon me for asking a real 5-Series rookie question: Am considering a 545 with SP so will have to do the tire swap twice a year. Have to store the tires and rims somewhere and haul them to the dealer or someone to switch them out in the Fall and Spring. Question: can you fit a set of tires and rims in the trunk of a 5? How about in the back with seat folded down.(Well, I said it was a dumb question)

riez · May 2004

shipo... Yes, I do "harp" on the need and value for a yearly 4-wheel balance and alignment by someone who knows BMWs. Best thing you can do for your tires and suspension. Amazes me that people will spend a small fortune on their 5 Series and then later on its replacement tires, but they skimp on such a simple, inexpensive yet important service. Go figure.

diver110... Congrats on the '01 540ia. Does it (hopefully) have the Sport Pkg? The 540ia Sport has the numerically higher 3.15:1 final drive ratio (versus the 2.82 on the non-Sports). Believe the 3.15 is same as in E39 M5. If you change out your differential, do get LSD!!!

You should thoroughly test drive a 3.45:1 before buying. See what it does to engine RPMs at higher speeds, not to mention lowering fuel economy. If gas prices stay high, you'll pay for the 3.45:1 at the pump! Keep in mind that the EPA rated the 540ia Sport at only 21 mpg highway; it was clobbered with a decent gas guzzler penalty. A 3.45:1 final drive likely would lower that to 19 or 20 mpg.

diver110 · May 2004

Riez, Yes, I got the sport package. Actually, I thought the "A" in 540iA stood for that, is that right? What does LSD stand for (I assume you are not talking about the hallucenogen)? So I do have the 3.15 differential. I was thinking in terms of the Dinan 3.45 limited slip, which they say gives a 10% across the board torque and horsepower increase. I don't fully understand how "limited slip" works, however, or how it increases power by 10% other than somehow it transfers power to the wheels more efficiently. I would appreciate any feedback you or others can give in this regard. The Dinan 3.45 ain't cheap BTW, around $8000 with labor.

riez · May 2004

diver110... LSD = limited slip differential. On BMWs, it is only available on M3 and M5 (standard on both). LSD used to be available as an option on pretty much all BMWs built before around 1993.

LSD is an acceleration enhancer. It helps both off the line as well as while accelerating in corners. With an open (i.e., non-LSD) differential, power goes to the wheel spinning the fastest. So if a wheel is just spinning (say on ice) that wheel gets all the power (which is thus wasted). Wheels spin at different speeds while cornering.

540ia means a 540i with automatic transmission ("a" = AT). This is just an identifier that people use. BMW doesn't actually label their cars with an "a".

The Sport Pkg gets you the Sport seats, the 3-spoke M-steering wheel, shadowline trim, 3.15:1 differential, high performance summer tires, revised suspension set up, etc.

If you have a 540ia Sport, I would NOT spend $8K just to get a Dinan differential. I'm not a big fan of expensive mods, even Dinan ones. Though Dinan are some of the best.

shipo · May 2004

For the E39s there were 3 different 540i models, the "A" is used to indicate an automatic transmission. Typically folks refer to their cars in the following manner:

540iA -- Base 540i with an automatic transmission
540iA SP -- 540i with the Sport Package and the Automatic transmission
540i6 -- 540i with the 6-Speed manual gearbox and the Sport Package

As for LSD, that stands for "Limited Slip Differential", which is a rear end that drives the wheel with the most grip as opposed to the default setup that drives the wheel with the least grip. As for the mechanical method to achieve this, there are at least two or three methods that I have read about over the years, and basically it is a marvelous arrangement of gears and clutches.

Regarding how the Dinan 3.45 rear end is able to increase power by 10 percent, it is quite simple, the higher the axle ratio is, the faster the engine spins in any given gear at any given speed. It's just like driving around in a slightly lower gear all of the time. Hmmm, $8,000 for the 3.45 LSD? Ouch, that's a bit steep.

Best Regards,
Shipo

shipo · May 2004

diver110 · May 2004

Riez, Yes, I got the sport package. Actually, I thought the "A" in 540iA stood for that, is that right? What does LSD stand for (I assume you are not talking about the hallucenogen)? So I do have the 3.15 differential. I was thinking in terms of the Dinan 3.45 limited slip, which they say gives a 10% across the board torque and horsepower increase. I don't fully understand how "limited slip" works, however, or how it increases power by 10% other than somehow it transfers power to the wheels more efficiently. I would appreciate any feedback you or others can give in this regard. The Dinan 3.45 ain't cheap BTW, around $8000 with labor.

shipo · May 2004

...I guess we both forgot to switch off our cloaking devices. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

ny540i6 · May 2004

Dropped the machine off for service, needing Insp 1. Did 28.5K before the indicator came on, and aboout 600 miles since then. Ironically, on the way to the dealer this morning the brake light (service indicator, not failure) came on, so I guess 30K would be about what my location and driving style gives as a brake life expectancy. Does that sound low/norm/high considering the amount of city driving this car does? I know that in the past I have gotten significantly less than that from the front end of nose heavy front wheel drive cars, so I am not unhappy, just curious. At 30K a year I should probably establish a good relationship (between dealer oil, filter changes etc) with a good independent shop, since I will be out of warranty around the time the machine is 2 years old.

ny540i6 · May 2004

Folks, I'd like to have a conversation about something that struck me today; Dropped the 5 off for service, picked up the loaner (2002 325 auto, touring, with step), and took it down one of my favorite roads just to see how it felt. So here is my question: Are our cars overengineered for real "driving?" Don't get me wrong - I love my 540, and also see most of the technology as a good thing, for safety, convenience etc. I will also agree that something like rain sensing wipers (as posted previously) can be seen as a plus, removing a distraction from the pure act of driving. However, I sometimes find myself wondering if the fact that my car has enough technology to correct most of my sins electronically, or to beat them to submission (gumball tires, no drift allowed) has in some ways diminished the driving skill, or driving pleasure. Again, I am not saying that I don't appreciate the safety advances etc. Let me give examples of what I mean. 20 years ago, when I rode motorcycles, my Kawasaki KZ1000 was a pretty impressive bike, and no one ever really wrung one out. Now you can buy off the shelf crotch-rockets that would blow the KZ into the weeds without breaking a sweat. Very few riders even come close to really exploiting the performance envelope. When I go on vacation I rent something like a "Mexican Porsche" - a woefully underpowered VW convertible, skinny tired, 4 or 5 speed manual, maybe power brakes, but a hoot to drive... and you practice your shifting, you have no ABS, and you think about your next pass, or how to get out of the way of people who can pass

. I think we are coming pretty close to "The Ultimate TRANSIT Module" and i am not sure if that's a good thing everyday.

Thoughts?

kyfdx · May 2004

Walter:
Congratulations.. boy, when you said you were thinking about trading, you weren't kidding.. I wouldn't waste money upgrading the rear differential... You won't get anything out of it come trade-in time, and only a little out of it in the meantime. Enjoy your "new" car!!

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx · May 2004

The "ultimate" intrusion to the driving experience is DSC. I have no idea how fast my car will go through a turn, and really don't have any way of finding out with the DSC turned on. All of the cues you were used to getting are gone and replaced by a flashing amber light on the dash. The only thing you have to rely on are your eyeballs and the rising G-forces.

I'm not sure this is a bad thing... I'm not even sure how I feel about it..

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx · May 2004

shipo... I follow a few other 3-series forums besides edmunds and I read a lot of complaints about noise from the Yokos... Not at first, but after about 7-8K miles. The new favorite tire other than the S-03s seems to be the Goodyear F1 GS-D3. A little cheaper than the Bridgestones.

regards,
kyfdx

shipo · May 2004

Thanks for the "Heads-Up" on the Yokos. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

postoak · May 2004

Yeah, I started to chime in earlier but I'm always hesitant about posting on the 5-series board. Anyway, I've got the Yokos on my 325i and they are EMBARASSINGLY loud. This began at about the 6500-7000 mile mark. There've been many similar complaints posted on the 'fest.

shipo · May 2004

Why so timid art thou? Sorry, I've been reading "Le Morte D'Arthur" recently. ;-) At least from my perspective you are most welcome to post here, after all, I post all over the 3-Series board. ;-)

I hereby nominate Postoak an honorary "BMW 5-Series" poster. Anyone second the motion?

Regarding the Yokos, well, you've just iced it for me, no Yokos in my future.

Best Regards,
Shipo

dabimmer · May 2004

I do hereby second the motion and welcome Postoak aboard. Yokos are really great tires but are very noisy after 7 or 8 K miles. As far as replacements for the 5 series if you are after a maximum performance summer tire it is a no brainer to select the Goodyear Eagle GS D3, it is a great tire ! I'm not sure that I like the tread pattern but could live with it.

joe91 · May 2004

One week ago (4/24/04) I took delivery of a new 2004 530i, with premium pkg., steptronic, and a few other extras. I DID NOT get the sport pkg. because I did not like "active steering". Well, I LOVE my new bimmer with one exception. At highway speeds (60-80 mph and higher) the steering seems too responsive. It requires frequent steering wheel inputs from me, and I am not accustomed to this on either my 1990 525i or my 2003 325cic. I`ve made sure that tire pressures are correct and have even had the dealer double check alignment settings. The dealer thinks I just need to "get used to it". Before I contact BMW USA, does anyone have any input for me? THANKS!!!

manybmws · May 2004

I had the same reaction with my '99 528. I bought new wheels and better tires and the problem went away.

postoak · May 2004

I got in the habit of monitoring this board when I was trying to convince my wife to get one of the last E39s. I just didn't want to let that model get away because I love the looks of it. But, she said no and I have absolutely no use for anything that large so there's no 5 in my future.

But I got addicted to reading posts here, LOL.

diver110 · May 2004

Thanks for all of the feedback. I should have realized what A, and LSD for that matter, stood for. I like my "540iA SP" A LOT better than the 540iT. It handles wonderfully. There is something about BMW sedan handling I have been unable to match in other sedans. I drove a Mercedes C32 AMG, for example It was a bit quicker, but there was a bit of a disconnected sense in the handling. It was also a little smaller and more expensive.

I was not going to rush into the 3.45 differential in any event, and I will give it some more thought. There are some circumstances when I would like a little more kick out of the car, but perhaps it is wiser to leave well enough alone.

kyfdx · May 2004

Gee... Now I feel bad that I didn't ask to become a "member" before I posted. I too, am only a lowly 3-series owner.

Can I stay? Huh? Can I? Please?

regards,
kyfdx

shipo · May 2004

Works for me! ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

george94 · May 2004

It was raining and I was following a brand new Acura TL getting on the highway. This person had been driving ahead of me for the last 5 minutes. Although he was not going fast you could not have noticed the fact that he obviously enjoyed his new wheels. In one of the turns all of the sudden I have noticed that his front end is giving up and his car went into pretty serious understeer. I mind you, my 530 SP didn't even slide or the DSC light didn't go on. He ended up on the grass in between the road, probably shaken up. I had a little smile on and felt like waving to him. Too bad it was pouring. These are the little moments I appreciate the choice I made last year to go with e39. He was lucky he ended up w/o a scratch.

postoak · May 2004

lol, come on board!

riez · May 2004

george94... In situations like this TIRES and driver training/experience are everything.

The SP provides better tires than a base 5 Series. Bet he was riding on mediocre all-season tires. Remember, an all-season tires does nothing very well.

nottrunner · May 2004

Will the 530d be available state side? Read an article that essentially said the diesel engine will make other BMW engines obsolete (I'm sure other than the V10 in the M5.

mattc · May 2004

Some 5 series links from a German site. 5th link down has some publicity pics showing the various 5 series models from oldest (1972) to the latest e60.
15th link down with Alpina 3.0 litre B7 (155 mph, 0-100 mph 13.7 seconds) & 3.5 litre B7S (162 mph) 5 series cars, fastest 4 door cars in the world
1978-82.

http://www.e12.de/weblinks/15a05000.htm

riez · May 2004

New E60 530i comes out 6th in a 7-car test! Car does NOT have the Sport Pkg. Has Steptronic AT. MSRP was $54,120, the most expensive of the group.

Sadly, had the 2nd worst slalom speed (a mere 60.7 mph), though it did have 3rd best 0-60 mph time (7.2 secs) and 3rd best 1/4 mile (15.5 secs at 90.8 mph). Top speed electronically limited to 150 mph (runs on V-rated tires).

Car just didn't really stand out in any area.

Interestingly, these moderately expensive sport sedans (which ranged in as-tested price from $34,215-$54,120) ran on some horrible tires. The 530i, Jaguar S-type, and E320 ran on ContiTouringContact EcoP. The 300 ran on ContiTouringContact all-seasons. The A6 and S80 T6 ran on Michelin Pilot HX MXM4s. Even the winning Cadillac CTS ran on all-season tires (Eagle RS). Doesn't anyone put good tires on sport sedans any more? Where are the Pilot Sports? ContiSportContacts?

kdshapiro · May 2004

Forbes awarded the 325 and 530 the best in class for 2004. Interesting in that a car mag gave it low ratings, but a consumer publication gave it high marks. While C&D noted it doesn't stand out in any area, Forbes probably noted it excels in every area.

Such a dilemna for the consumer, who to believe.

cdnpinhead · May 2004

Whom to believe, indeed?

Status & what to be seen driving vs. advertising revenue whoring. A conundrum for sure.

stl540 · May 2004

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=1756&e=2- &u=/040503/photos_od/mdf555649

kdshapiro · May 2004

Yes, that is the auto market. There is not one luxo manufacturer where one can't actually say something similiar about. All manufacturers want their cars to denote status without appearing to denote status. Unfortunately none can't, not BMW, not Lexus, not Mercedes, not Acura, etc.

joe91 · May 2004

I, too, love to read the comparison reports on 530s, etc., but I dare not trust them. After 7 months of test driving all of the vehicles in the 530i class (plus other "sporty" cars such as 350Z, RX-8, etc.), I came to my OWN conclusion: There is nothing in or below it`s class that was better all around (TO ME) than the 530i. I bought it with steptronic, premium pkg., xenons, etc. and I LOVE IT! Even the "all season" tires work well, and believe me, I`ve put it through some "interesting" maneuvers not unlike some that I performed during a one-day BMW driving school (Greer, SC) before I made my decision. Drive `em all and then YOU decide!!

manybmws · May 2004

I have said this before but the '04 530i is overpriced. BMW should have boosted the HP by 30-50 ponies. According to all the car magazine tests so far the '03 is faster than an '04. The best deal going right now is a 545i without SP and toys (just negotiated a deal for $55K). It is too bad that the 5-series will not be a knock out punch across the entire product range.

george2 · May 2004

I am contemplating the purchase of a 2004 525 and have a couple of concerns that I am hoping some of you BMW experts can help me with. (This would be my first BMW)
I am being told that BMW has gone to a lot of aluminum in the construction of the 2004's and everyone I know in the auto industry advises me to be very careful with that. Steel is stronger and in the event of any major accident any good body shop can take care of straightening steel but will probably not have the equipment to do that with aluminum. Does that concern any of you?

Secondly, I am hearing about all kinds of trouble with the "I state" (or whatever the hell it is called)--The electronic control system that shows up in the middle of the dashboard. Is anyone out there familiar with these problems?

WIll I be happy with the 525 or should I go with the 3.0 engine. I will be using the auto as a over the road cruiser.

Lastly, the salesman tells me that BMW NEVER offers any financial sales incentives to purchasers. Is this correct or a line of sales BS?

saugatak · May 2004

First, BMW has always used a mixture of aluminum alloys in the engine and mainly front end of their car in order to achieve 50-50 weight balance. You can't achieve that kind of balance without using materials lighter than steel. BMW also puts a huge battery in the back to balance the weight.

Frankly, IMO, the crazy engineering it takes to achieve that 50-50 weight balance is the reason why BMW's are quirky cars. Having long electrical lines connecting the front of the car to a battery in the back, how different alloys hold up to changes in temperature, etc. can cause weird results.

Whether the aluminum results in less safety I don't know. I think the main reason for BMW's costing so much to insure and their relatively high accident rates is that they're fun to drive so people go a little crazy in them (just because you can take a turn at 50 m.p.h. doesn't mean you should).

I am not sure how good i-drive 2.0 is. i-drive 1.0 frankly sucked. It seems from the initial response of people who have i-drive 2.0 is that it works OK and is much easier to you. However, electronics is not BMW's strength so IMO it's not a plus to have i-drive, but hey, you're stuck with it so better learn to love it.

The 2.5L engine in the 525 IMO is underpowered for the size of this car. If you go with the automatic, the response will be even more underwhelming as the slushbox will suck out some power. In the end, it's your $ and your preference as to whether the 2.5L engine is right for you.

I've heard rumors that BMW plans to go with a configuration of 3.0L engine for the base model of the 5 and a 3.5L engine for the step up, so instead of a 525 and 530, there'd be a 530, 535 and 545. However, I don't know if this rumor is true or not and maybe you can't wait a year.

With regard to discounting on BMW, your salesman is selling you a load of BS. It's all supply and demand. BMW has given incentives before, I'm sure some models have incentives now, you just have to find 'em.

In any case, good luck.

joe91 · May 2004

You should be only concerned about BMWs 5-series i-drive if you don`t have about 2 hours to read the owners manual. It is really quite simple, and once you set it you can forget it. You can program necessary sound system functions onto steering wheel buttons, and the AC/heat buttons are on the dash. Don`t believe the mag. reviewers who trash i-drive, for they simply have not taken the time to understand how really easy it works. Also, you DO NOT have to take your eyes off the road as some depict. Although I bought an `04 530ia, the 525 is quite nice (as is the 545 if you want more of a "rocket"). I also advise not giving too much credence to what you read on this site (including my notes) or in the mag. reviews. Test drive several 5-series iterations and decide for yourself.

kyfdx · May 2004

My 325i only costs $75 more per year to insure than the '01 Honda Accord it replaced. This is for a car that is worth double. Not sure what its like where you live, or if the 5-series is higher, but around here, BMWs have the reputation of being cheap to insure.

regards,
kyfdx

shipo · May 2004

My 1999 328i that replaced my 1995 VR6 Passat GLX was actually cheaper to insure because even though repair costs were higher, the theft and personal injury were lower. My 530i is only marginally more expensive than the 328i was (by something like $50 per year) and only $100 per year than my wife's new Caravan. I too have found that BMWs are fairly cheap to insure.

Best Regards,
Shipo

sdg380 · May 2004

George, I wouldn't be concerned about the use of aluminum in 5-series suspension components, achieving 50/50 weight distribution is a highly desirable goal for balanced handling, and additionally, many of these components are "unsprung weight", that is parts of any vehicle not >carried< by the suspension (e.g., wheels, tires, brakes, etc.) The less these components weigh, the less the forces transmitted through the suspension to the vehicle. And most cars are now designed to "crumple" to protect occupants, and the components now made of aluminum would not ordinarily be straightened, but replaced, in the event of an accident. In the past, 5's have had excellent results in crash testing. And unlike an Audi A8, a 5 does not have any aluminum body panels, which do require different repair techniques than the more common steel.

Use of aluminum/alloys in engines is practically universal in the industry and is nothing to be "very careful with". Also, rearward placement of the battery is a very common technique to balance weight distribution, with essentially no drawbacks other than having to open the back seat or truck if the battery needs service. Sorry, can't agree that any of this creates weird results. (Saugatak, not to flame, but I reserve "quirky" for Saabs and Volvos!)

Re iDrive, I don't think we're going back to dozens of buttons, and the newer version is supposedly better than the first gen. If you're interested in this particular car, I wouldn't let that dictate the decision.

While there may be some merit to the position that the 2.5 liter engine does not have enough guts for this car (esp. with a slushbox), others have found it perfectly satisfactory. And for "over the road cruising", I'm not sure you'd notice much difference. I'm already on record on this board for pointing out that if you buy a 525, you're getting the exact same chassis and looks, and very similar driving dynamics (apart from acceleration) as those who spend $5K-$15K more for a 530 or 545. Hey, nothing wrong with a "value" 5-series in my book (BTW, I've got an '02 530 with a stick). But as noted, it's your car, your dough, you drive them and decide. I would guess they will keep the current engines through the '05 models (they upped the V-8 for '04), but I do think a more powerful 6 cyl. is in the future to keep pace, the new Mercedes 3.5L V-6 puts out 268 hp.

Finally, I'd be very leery of your salesman's credibility, since it's common knowledge that BMW gave significant incentives at the end of the previous 5-series model run... Having re-read your post, I guess your salesman will respond that those incentives were to dealers (true), not purchasers, but this stuff is not secret, and the dealers of course passed the incentives onto buyers "to move these refrigerators".

kdshapiro · May 2004

I agree with saugatak, the righteous adhesion to crazy engineering is what gives BMW the road feel and the legendary handling the people rave about. I am concerned about all luxo makers going to aluminum, not only BMW. I think it will drive up the cost or repairs in the long run.

equan1 · May 2004

I agree fully with your 2¢.

bmwmrc · May 2004

George, I own a 2003 525i and could not be MORE HAPPY with the car and yes, even the acceleration when I leave it in SPORT MODE. True the car from a standstill at the lower RPM's is approximately 1 to 1.5 seconds slower than the 530i, but in day to day driving and as a "cruiser" you have to decide if the extra "hmmmph" is worth $3,500 - $5,000 more. IMO, it wasn't, because I decided to put my extra money into the SP to go along with the PP. This is my second 5 series that I've owned and it has more than enough LEGAL power to cruise and accelerate anywhere, with enough HP to get you going where you want to go.

And as sdg380 pointed out, you're getting the same exact chassis as the 530 and 545 and the handling and cache of the benchmark car in its class. Sure it's not as powerful as its more esteemed brothers, but it's the SAME car! So, my words of wisdom to you is this: test drive both the 525 and 530 and you decide. Afterall, it's your money. Either way, you're going to get a great car. Good luck!

saugatak · May 2004

"Use of aluminum/alloys in engines is practically universal in the industry and is nothing to be "very careful with". Also, rearward placement of the battery is a very common technique to balance weight distribution, with essentially no drawbacks other than having to open the back seat or truck if the battery needs service. Sorry, can't agree that any of this creates weird results. (Saugatak, not to flame, but I reserve "quirky" for Saabs and Volvos!)"

Maybe you're right about the battery and alloys, but having had a 3-series myself, lots and lots of BMWs in the family (couple of uncles that do 2 year leases and switch from one BMW to the next) and since that's the car most of my friends drive and given that my bro is a mechanic, I can fully assure you that they are quirky cars.

I know for a fact that BMW does things to achieve 50-50 weight balance that are not done by anyone else. It's what gives them their precision feel but when each model line of cars has to come up with unique engineering (i.e., in some models Widget A is made of steel, in others aluminum, in other lines an aluminum/steel alloy), it makes it more difficult to standardize production processes, introduces complexity in the engineering and manufacturing, which inevitably increases the rate of quirky errors, especially as the car ages.

Frankly, I wish BMW would cut out all the crazy engineering to achieve that 50-50 weight balance and just use normal, reliable methods and produce a less quirky car, but then it would not drive like a BMW.

Fact is, there is a little bit of a tradeoff between performance and reliability. If you focus on reliability, parts standardization, production standardization, etc., your cars will be ultra-reliable but lack the fine tuning it takes to give them good road feel, i.e., like your standard Toyota and Lexus.

shipo · May 2004

And as sdg380 pointed out, you're getting the same exact chassis as the 530 and 545 and the handling and cache of the benchmark car in its class."

Hmmm, well in the case of the E39 that statement is not totally true. I know for a fact that the brakes are different. The E39 525i shares the brakes of the older 528i while the 530i shares the brakes with the 540i.

525i/528i Rotors 296x22mm (11.65 x 0.87") -- Front
525i/528i Rotors 298x20mm (11.73 x 0.79") -- Rear

530i/540i Rotors 324x30mm (12.76 x 1.18") -- Front
530i/540i Rotors 298x20mm (11.73 x 0.79") -- Rear

M5 Rotors 345 x 32mm (13.58 x 1.26") -- Front
M5 Rotors 328 x 20mm (12.91 x 0.79") -- Rear

Best Regards,
Shipo

BMW 5-Series Sedans

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