BMW 5-Series Sedans

jbf5 · June 2004

Has anyone attended a BMWCCA driving school? Any concerns about wear and tear on the car?

srfast · June 2004

about wear and tear because you will not be driving hard enough, unless your tires and brake pads are "borderline". If they are, change them or don't go because these are the items that will experience the most wear.

Focus on driving the correct line and listen to your instructor. Talk to the other drivers in the paddock regarding tire pressures and other car set up things. You're there to learn. You can't win a driver's school so don't drive over your head. BTW, what track are your driving?

Good luck and have fun...JL

jbf5 · June 2004

Thanks JL. The car's pretty new (9k or so miles), so tires and pads should be ok. I think I have to have the brake fluid flushed and replaced to pass the pre-school inspection though.

The track is the Main Circuit at Summit Point Raceway. Have you driven it?

J

srfast · June 2004

longest in the northeast. If you nail turn 10 right, you could be 100+ MPH at the end of the main straight. Make sure your brakes are up to the task. If you flush the brake fluid before the school, you might need to do it again after the school if you push hard. You can easily boil the fluid because of the E39's weight. My race car is only 1600 lbs, so brake fluid doesn't boil. SP is a fairly technical track and you need to nail the apexes consistently to get a fast lap.

BTW, a co-driver and I won a 3 hour enduro there a few years back. My favorite NE tracks are SP and the Watkins Glen "Long Course."

A successful day at the track is when drive home in the same car you came in. You are not "racing", so drive with your head, not your "machismo."

Good luck and have fun....JL

riez · June 2004

mtv65... From 9010/9014 above, what, if anything, have you ended up with?

My wife just bought herself an '04 IS300 SportCross. Beautiful and practical. (I'm jealous.)

540jml · June 2004

I have a blk/blk '01 540 w/42 k on it. Can turn in via "pull ahead program" and get new 545.

I've thought about buying the '01( $33,100 in 3 months according to lease contract), but the potential costs of keeping the '01 after warranty are making me think about the new offer. I like the 540 a lot.. also in mint shape. What to do ?

mtv65 · June 2004

We're actually pretty close to closing a deal this weekend on a beautiful Titanium Silver 01 530i with SP/PP for ~$28k. Went a little over our limit but we figured you only live once

. It's got low mileage, seem to have been well-maintained (not much can go wrong in <40k miles) plus it is still under factory warranty. We almost bought an 01 330i fully loaded a couple of nights ago but decided to look some more. It had ~50k miles for $25k - gorgeous Topaz Blue with tan interior.

1violinist · June 2004

"...a beautiful Titanium Silver 01 530i with SP/PP for ~$28k."
Sounds great! Is this price from a dealer or a private owner?

mtv65 · June 2004

Just got off the phone with the seller (trying not to sound too eager) for some final details - the car is 3 hours away. Everything seems to be on the up and up. All maintenance have been covered, I assume, my the manufacturer's maint program - was it 3yrs/36k for the 01 model? Anyways, I'm glad we waited a week...otherwise it would've been an out of warranty 01 330i Topaz Blue with SP/PP from a local dealer for more $$$ instead. That was an extremely clean car!! Wish we could afford both

.

sunilb · June 2004

yep, '01s are 3/36 on the maintenance, but 4/50 on the warranty.
Sounds like a great price!

riez · June 2004

mtv65... Have you looked at CPO (Certified Pre-owned) cars? Might cost a bit more but an additional 2/50 of warranty coverage (though a bit less comprehensive than original b-to-b and with a $50 deductible).

You should look at the in-service date on the '01. When will it go out of b-to-b warranty? '05 will be here before you know it. Having some coverage to '07 might bring peace of mind.

mtv65 · June 2004

Thanks Riez and to everyone else for all the good advice!! The 01 530i has ~12k miles left on it's factory warranty or June '05 whichever comes first. I was browsing thru the warranty boards and a few people were having some good luck with 3rd party extended warranty programs - 1sourceautowarranty.com and autowarranties.com. I've never been a big fan of extended warrantees but IS this something I should put more thought into!? My past/present bmw's have been very reliable thus far so the 530i should be no exception, right?

Thanks again all!

p.s. Riez, congrats on the SportCross! Beautiful, performance oriented plus utility. Best of both worlds!!

riez · June 2004

mtv65... I've found very few 3rd party extended warranties are a good value. Unfortunately, unlike marques like Infiniti and Lexus, BMW does NOT offer an extended warranty on any new car. Only "extention" is to buy a CPO unit. (For '04s, BMW is selling an extention on the maintenance/service agreement.)

Beware of 3rd party warranties. Buyer beware!!!

-Read ALL the fine print. (Can use BMW replacement parts? Can a BMW dealer do the work? Does the warranty company pay the dealer or do you get reimbursed after you pay the servicing dealer? Do you have to get pre-authorization from the warranty company before work can be done? Etc.)
-What parts are specifically included and excluded?
-What is the cost?
-What is the deductible?
-Can you get a pro-rated refund if you sell the car before the extended warranty expires?
-How strong is the company selling the insurance? Check out insurance company strength ratings (e.g., AM Best). (Unfortunately, too many car warranty companies have either gone bankrupt or engaged in fraud.)

kyfdx · June 2004

Don't get a 3rd party warranty.

I agree with CPO being better, but I'd bet you couldn't come within $5K of the price you are getting for a CPO at the dealer. That is a great price for that year and options. Most extended warranties will be $2K or more.. Stick that money in the bank and use it as a repair fund.

regards,
kyfdx

mtv65 · June 2004

It's pretty much a done deal. Just gotta find the time to see and drive the car (3hrs away). I'm buried to my neck at work and we're off to Vegas this Friday. Perhaps the following weekend!! The wife can't wait since it'll be her car primarily.

What about aftermarket cupholders for the E39? Can't believe the discussions here at work concerning those cupholders. $40k plus car with no functional cupholders......sheeeesh!!! German engineers' sense of humor I guess.

1violinist · June 2004

I guess if you get to drive a BMW on the autobahn in Germany doing 150 miles per hour, trust me, you wouldn't worry about cupholders! :-)

kyfdx · June 2004

Are the cupholders that bad? The ones in the 3-series are really nice, except that one is under the flip-up armrest, and they take the spot where some console storage would normally be. But, they work great, much better than Hondas that I've owned.

regards,
kyfdx

If you haven't driven that car yet, bargain hard.. If he is asking $28K, a check for $26.5K or $27K might bring you home a new car.

riez · June 2004

Both sets are worthless. The rears are a hideously complex (relatively speaking) mechanism prone to break. (Mine broke repeatedly.) The fronts are barely good for 12-oz aluminum cans and small styrofoam coffee cups. And they'll still be inclined to fall over. Can't comment on the E60 or E34 cars. (The E46's are much better, but still not world class.)

inukeu2 · June 2004

I have a coffee stain on my passenger's side carpet from the first time I found out how bad the cup holders are. I was told by a German friend that cupholders are an afterthought for them. They do not multi-task when they drive. They drive with a purpose. The cupholders are only to satisfy pompous Americans. I don't drink my coffee in the car. I only make it at home and take it to work. No matter how bad the cupholders are in the e39 I can say that they put them where I can hold on to them (coffee cups) and the stick shift at the same time!

manybmws · June 2004

BMW in fact stopped putting them in the rear (at the back end of the console) on the E39. My '99 had them and the '03 doesn't. I guess the BMW engineers figured out they didn't work :-)

But after having a coffee cup fly into the passenger seat at a stop light, I have resorted to holding on to the cup!

jb_shin · June 2004

Not to mention that it is illegal to drink while driving in Germany, which is exactly why it is an afterthought

riez · June 2004

re: cupholders

Memo to BMW: Don't forget that North America is now your largest single market in total sales, surpassing even Germany. Given Germany's near decade of economic malaise, with no end in sight, likely USA will be even more important. Nearly all Americans drink in their cars. We are the land of endless Starbucks, McDonalds, and DQ. BMW had better start treating USA like Germany. Don't short change us the best cars. Don't keep us from the customization and special order programs. Bring over diesels. And, for God's sake, give us good cupholders and decent sounding standard in-dash CD players.

pen101 · June 2004

This past weekend drove from LA to San Diego late at night. Used cruise control the whole way, set at 76 mph (72.4 mph per computer). When we arrived in San Diego 1 hour, 47 minutes later, checked computer. It indicated we averaged 33.1 mpg! This is amazing. I've driven economy cars that did not get this mpg. (E39, 530i, 5-sp, SP, PP).

re cup holders: I only use the cup holder to hold my cell phone. Last time I used it to hold a cup, it broke. Learned my lesson. The "cup holders" are not meant to hold cups.

shipo · June 2004

I just got back from yet another trip to Long Island last night and even with needing to run the A/C the whole way (hot, humid and several thunder storms), sitting in heavy traffic for over two hours (road construction and the typical NYC area rush hour crush both ways) and then the inevitable hooking up with fast moving traffic (often moving at a touch over the century mark) I got the following results:

532 miles (one tank of gas)
9:20 elapse time
57 mph average speed
18.189 gallons of gas
29.25 mpg

It didn't match Pen101's results but I think it was pretty damn good. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

riez · June 2004

Reminds me of the 26 mpg I used to regularly achieve driving my E39 540i6 on interstate at 74 mph. Quite impressive for a 4.4L V8 sedan!

shipo · June 2004

Yup, I too think that 26 is pretty good for a V8 sedan. That said, the thought that Suburbans and Excursions and the like that cannot get even 20 mpg going down hill with a tail wind and don't pay a Gas Guzzler tax, when the E39 540i6 had to pay a $3,000 tax while getting 26 mpg really makes me angry, really angry.

For that reason, and that reason alone, I hope that gas prices keep going up. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

vcheng · June 2004

But I follow this discussion avidly, and enjoy the cars as well as the posts.

My LS430UL (4.3 l V-8) does 29.5 mpg at a steady 75 mph (actual miles/gallons consumed, not the trip computer). (Please don't shoot me for saying the L-word in a BMW forum!)

Point: Almost all the new luxury sedans (such as the 5 series - a close friend just got a new 545i - great car to drive) are highly efficient at highway speeds by virtue of fantastic engineering and aerodynamic designs.

I think SUVs should be treated to lower limits while more efficient cars should be allowed to go even faster than at present. I think a BMW is in its element at about 110+ mph with an ATTENTIVE driver on a good road, a thing of true beauty!

kyfdx · June 2004

Sure... YOU are attentive.. but what about the rest of the drivers on the road? I'd love to drive 110, but I predict carnage if that were the case.

vcheng · June 2004

shipo · June 2004

I'm not bemoaning SUVs in per se; it's just that I have a real problem with a playing field that is not level. A Suburban getting 18 mpg at 55 mph does not pay a Guzzler Tax and the E39 540i6 paid $3,000 and got 26 mpg at 75. To me at least, something is VERY wrong with that. Either EVERY passenger vehicle pays the tax over a certain mileage threshold or none of them do. That's only fair. Now however, with fuel prices being what they are, the low mileage SUV types (not your LS430UL) are now needing to pony up for a de-facto tax. I really don't have a problem with that. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

vcheng · June 2004

However, a camel is clearly a race horse designed by a committee, and thus we will always have a mish-mash of compromises and accommodations for special interest groups, rather than rational policy by our erstwhile politicians.

(Politics is a word that comes from Poly meaning Many, and Ticks, meaning blood sucking creatures.)

pen101 · June 2004

And then there is the H2 Hummer. Gets 10 mpg city. But due to its weight of over 6000 lbs, gas guzzler tax does not apply. Plus, it is also eligible for certain tax advantages. But to fill its 32 gallon tank at $2.50/gallon (in LA) can cost up to $80.

To get back on BMW topic, I wonder if the 6-cylinder engine will get more horsepower in 2005 to keep up with the competition.

mtv65 · June 2004

All this talk about efficiency is music to my ears

. Looks like we'll be picking up the car (01 530i SP) next weekend. We were hoping sooner but like I mentioned from my prior post, too busy to take the 6hr roundtrip drive.

One final check:

- No 3rd party warranties. Put $$$ in seperate acct.
- Inspection at dealer for $100. Definite must!!
- Call Insurance company for quote. Married couple no points. What are you guys paying for ur premiums (if that's not personal)??
- Enjoy drive home in new (to us) Titanium Silver 530i with Sport Premium. Told my wife that we would have to switch cars halfway home. I'll take the windy half please

.

Thanks all and looking forward to hangin' out with you boys soon.

vcheng · June 2004

Kirstie_H · June 2004

Don't forget tonight's member-to-member chat - it's open mic night, so come and discuss whatever's on your mind.

http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/townhallchat.html

6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Drop by for live chat with other members. Hope you can join us!

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

mtv65 · June 2004

Darn, too late to edit =(. Too excited I guess

. It's all good.

Any inputs while you're here? Thanks!!

calch · June 2004

I need some car-buying advise. We are looking for a car that can accomodate three car seats (2 child, one infant). We would like to stay away from SUVs and Minivans and were considering the 5 series wagon after a recent trip to Europe. I looks very nice, but I am not sure whether it will be large enough in the back.
Since it appears to be very similar to the new 5 series sedan, I was wondering whether anyone has tried to fit multiple car seats in it. The LATCH system seems to be designed for two, but maybe, there is enough room anyway.

If anyone can suggest any other wagons please do (not including Mercedes, we have a C-class that lives in the repair shop)

Thanks for the help.

pat · June 2004

Hi calch - welcome!

This 5-Series Sedans discussion isn't really the best place to ask for recommendations for wagons, 5-Series or otherwise. Why don't you check out the discussions on our Station Wagons board?

There is a "Help me select a Wagon" discussion at the top of the list which can offer you lots of information in the previous posts. It also would be a great place to ask your questions about what might be the best wagon for you.

There is also a dedicated 5-Series Wagons discussion in the list along with all the other Wagon discussions.

Meanwhile, we'll wait here to see if anyone has tried to fit three car seats into the back seat of a 5-Series sedan, but you really ought to ask that question in the 5-Series wagon discussion also - that's the information you really need to have.

Good luck!!

george94 · June 2004

No problem mtv - I have 03 SP, PP, 5sp, probably very similar to what you are getting, congrats by the way, and my annual insurance bill is $1200 in Boston which I suppose is fairly expensive to insure. I do have a good safety record, LoJack and some other discounts though. Good Luck, you will love your E39.
.g

mtv65 · June 2004

Thanks George! My wife called the insurance company this afternoon and got a quote of...........drum roll..........$263 for 6 months. Pleasantly surprised! The 5 will be driven primarily by my other half and I've still got my M3. I suppose we can switch every now and then. I'm thinking NO since she hates the clutch on the M3....that's the best part

. Guess I'll have to come up with excuses to drive it......'Babe, we're out of your favorite ice cream. I'm just gonna run over to Nob Hill really quick.' Nob Hill is at the next town 15 minutes away....should be plenty of time to get the car warmed up for some spirited driving

.

tam2k · June 2004

Hello,

I had this posted in another board and mtv65 suggested that I post it here as well!

I'm in the process of researching to purchase my 1st BMW. I'd like to buy a 2002 525 with <30K miles. On Kelley Blue Book, they listed an estimated trade-in price at around 28K and private at 31.4 for a 30K mile car in Excellent condition. The Edmunds TMV lists the car at 28.7 trade-in and 30.3 private and 33.3 retail. I'm in the Atlanta area. Should I look to purchase at the 28K price or less? Has anyone purchased a 2002 recently?

I test drove a 2003 525 today and really liked the ride of it actually better than the 2004 that I test drove last week.

Thanks

fla528 · June 2004

I traded a 2000 528 in on a 2004 525 ( I like the looks of the 2004 better.. believe it or not..)... However, I have the 16" wheels with the Continental tires on the car. I love the looks but it seems to handle worse than my 2000 528..Should I upgrade to 17" wheels with higher performance tires, like Michelin , or Bridgstone Turanza. Will this help the handling aspects.

kyfdx · June 2004

The 17" wheels/tires should help a lot.. It all depends on how far you want to go with the handling aspects.. Turanza LS-Vs will have better handling, but still a compliant ride. If you really want to stiffen the handling, Michelin Pilot Sports or Goodyear Eagle F1s.

Warning: New factory wheels are very expensive.. not to mention the tires.

ny540i6 · June 2004

Want to jump on the mileage wagon... just returned from the Baltimore/Silver Spring run. Average speed was 74 going south, 59 coming north (time of day, weather difference). MPG was 25.6.

I was happy.

manybmws · June 2004

Yes you will have much better road feel if you change the tires. Get Michelin Pilot Sport A/S and you won't regret it.

riez · June 2004

vcheng... What is amazing about the E39 540i6 is that not only can it go over 155 mph (there is a rev limiter), not only is its 0-100-0 time outstanding, and can go 0-60 mph in about 5.4 seconds, but even with all this performance, its weight, and 4.4L V8, it still gets 26 mpg in real highway driving!

Not sure there is another 5-seat super high performance sedan that comes close to it in an all around package. (Unless you are willing to pay a fortune more for cars like Ferrari (2-doors) or Maserati, or move up to the 7 Series, S-class, Bentley, etc.)

The Lexus LS400/430 performance pails in comparison.

manybmws · June 2004

o 325i, 231 HP
o 330i, 265 HP
o 330ti, 333 HP
o M3, 401 HP

Saw this on Autospies:
http://www.autospies.com/article/index.asp?articleId=3043&cat- egoryId=1

So we might get 256HP out of the new 3.0 liter six, and better yet 333 out of a turbo version.

One can only hope.

fla528 · June 2004

Wheels can be expensive if bought at BMW dealer.
However, I have purchased wheels from tirerack, and they were half the price that the dealer wanted. The reason I will probably upgrade to the 17" wheels along with the Michelin, so that the car will track better. It seems with the continentals the BMW does not have that dead center feel. I have to always have small corrections at highway speed to keep the vehicle tracking straight.

nyccarguy · June 2004

You guys with the Inline Sixes and V8s should be damn proud of yourselfs. Your big 5ers are getting better mileage than I do with my 4cyl, FWD Honda Prelude. I know a lot has to do with the gearing, but it is still impressive.

I agree that the SUVs should have to meet the same federal regualtions that cars do because SUVs are used primarialy as passenger cars. Maybe if the SUV owner had to pay a Gas Guzzler Tax upfront, they'd think twice. Oh wait, then GM/Ford/DCX would just give another few thousand in incentives to offset the gas guzzler tax and tack on an extra year of 0% financing to make it 7 years!

vcheng · June 2004

I agree with you about the capabilities of the 5-series. It is truly a great performance sedan, and yes, the performance of an LS430 pales by comparison.

My point was only about the fuel economy.

Still, I would bet you that I can lose my licence just as quickly in my LS as you can in a 540i6 in this land of 55 and jumbo coffee cup holders and cellphone yappers!

BMW 5-Series Sedans

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