BMW 5-Series Sedans

alexz · September 2004

New 3-serios will come with new engines in spring'05

cmnott · September 2004

According to my dealer in Ottawa. I was very disapppointed to learn that the 258bhp 3.0L engine will come in 2006.

i guess I will have to find something else.

manybmws · September 2004

I have a 530. A relative has an 04 545 though. If you want to smoke the tires get a 545 :-)

boomsama · September 2004

What made you choose the 530 over the 545? (besides the price)

I've also heard that the active steering is very twitchy over non-consistent road surfaces?

ricecub348 · October 2004

I am a young man in my mid to late 20's. Thanks to Hurricane Ivan, I have to get another car. I have always wanted a BMW. I did find a 98' 528I with all the trimmings for 14,500. I did some research into this car and have had it inspected. No accidents, and no problems that the mechanic could find. It's got over 99k miles. I would like to know, Should I get the car? How much would I expect to spend in maintenance a year?

div2 · October 2004

My wife uses a 109000 mile 1997 528iA as her commuter sled. Aside from a failed windshield washer motor($35), the fuel door hinge($12), and a power steering hose($80), it has only required scheduled maintenance over the past two years and 32000 miles. City/suburban fuel mileage averages 21 mpg while an 80 mph interstate cruise will net 28 mpg. In most cases, the best way to keep maintenance costs reasonable is to find a GOOD independent BMW tech; you will save 25%-50% on service compared to the dealer. All modern BMWs use a Service Interval Indicator to inform the driver when routine maintenance is required. On a 1998 5er an oil change will be called for at @9000 mile intervals. A minor service(Inspection I) will come up at @18000 miles and a major (Inspection II) service at @36000 miles. An oil change using synthetic oil will cost $60-$100, an Inspection I $150-$300, and an Inspection II $450-$800. Coolant must be changed every three years-using BMW Coolant ONLY, while the DOT4 brake fluid gets flushed every two years. In the newer cars I change the so-called "Lifetime" ATF fluid and final drive oil every 100000 miles. Brakes on the 528i tend to wear quickly. Count on changing the front pads about every 20000 miles and the rear every 50000. Though most dealers don't agree, you only need to change the rotors every other pad change. Note that my cost numbers are approximate. For example, if you change the oil yourself using a BMW filter and Mobil 1 or BMW synthetic the cost will be under $40. On the other hand, my local BMW dealer charges very reasonable rates for some of the services that I don't have the time and/or desire to perform. The dealer only charged me $110 to change the ATF AND the synthetic final drive oil. Last month they changed the coolant and the brake fluid for just $143. The 1997-2001 Fives are wonderful durable cars. It was/is widely regarded to be the finest sedan in the world. With regards to your potential purchase I would also want to verify that all factory services have been performed. If the car checks out OK then I wouldn't hesitate to buy it- though I'd think you could probably nab it for under $12000

andys120 · October 2004

I'll use it as a guide to maintaining my recently acquired y2k 528iA. I was wondering how often the ATF should be changed out, the manual says never!

rich545 · October 2004

I haven't found that about active steering. I'm not completely sure what you mean by "twitchy", but the only thing that I think takes some getting used to is how quickly the car turns at low speeds with active steering. At first it almost seems like the car turns at 90 degree angles. But you get used to it quickly and then cars without it feel like you're turning a tracker trailer.

riez · October 2004

andys120... Ever since BMW started paying for "free" maintenance, is amazing how little maintenance is done in the first 60,000 miles. Scary. Of course, if you change ATF, you'll pay for it!

You might check out the Tech Q&A sections of Roundel (BMW CCA) and Bimmer magazines. They have been talking about AT failures in the 80-120K range for years. Might be what you get when no one maintains ATs?

pen101 · October 2004

2004 - - - 2003

5-series: 29,043 .... 32,775
7-series: 10,917 .... 12,953
Z4: 9,949 .... 13,066

rich545 · October 2004

Once again I guess I have to explain this. Look more closely at the numbers. Here's a link to the sales figures:
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2004/10/01/241416.html
You're comparing overall 5 series sales which for 2003 include the station wagon and M5. Neither was offered this year. If you look at the sales for the 545 vs. the 540 the E90 has almost DOUBLED the YTD sales of the 2003 540! YTD the 545 has sold 6,123 units while last year at the same time the 540 had only sold 3,622 units. The E60 530 has almost caught up to the 2003 E39 530 sales YTD (14,328 units YTD for the E60 530 vs. 14,718 YTD 2003 for the E39 530). The E60 525 is still lagging a bit with 12,081 units sold YTD vs. 13,973 for the E39 525. So we're left with the E60 selling 219 more units YTD than the 2003 E39. Hardly incredible, but certainly not being outsold as your numbers seem to indicate. I know people will try to offer all kinds of justifications for this, but the bottom line is that the E39 has NOT outsold the E60 YTD.

riez · October 2004

The sales figures show the E60 is NOT a hit in the market. It has FAILED to make a big splash in its first year. People are NOT knocking down doors to be the first to have one. No matter how you spin it, this is NOT what BMW expected or wanted.

rich545 · October 2004

I never said it was a huge hit. I just said it outsold the E39. It's pretty interesting because it seems to me like those that don't like the car want it to fail. It's like you feel slighted by BMW or something. I'm not spinning anything. I'm just presenting the numbers that BMW reported. Sorry to tell the folks out there that don't like it or the other Bangle designs, BMW is not going to go back to the old "beloved" styles (which were basically the same car in three different sizes for the 3, 5 and 7 series in my opinion). Frankly, it doesn't matter to me who likes it or not as long as I do. All I'm asking is for people to present the sales figures accurately.

pen101 · October 2004

As we all know numbers can be explained in many ways depending on your point of view. My post did not contain an editorial. Just YTD sales totals for the 5-series combined.

rich545, what I should have done is just provide the link, as you did, and let the reader decide for themselves. No malice was intended.

However, my point was as riez said, that the E60 has not been a sales winner. But this can be due to other factors besides design, including the economy, the E60's higher price point, the increased competition, etc. And no, I do not want the car to fail.

riez · October 2004

Recent growth in BMW sales has come almost entirely from SUVs, esp. X3, plus the fact there is now a 6 Series when before there wasn't one (unless you went back to '89). Even Mini sales have levelled off.

BMW has to be nervous that the E60 isn't a smash in its first year and can barely outsell the E39's last year (which was in its 7th MY in 2003).

rich545 · October 2004

Since this is the 5 series forum, I'll limit my discussion to that model, and not project what BMW did or did not expect in terms of sales since I (and as far as I know you) do not work there. Anyway, the success of a car is usually determined over it's entire lifespan, not just the first year. Some cars are fast starters others are late bloomers. All I know is, I can't get the car washed without someone complimenting it which didn't happen with my 3 series. So while you may not like it there are plenty of people that do seem to. My opinion is that will translate into steadily higher sales figures going forward. You're welcome to your opinion of course which I will assume is to the contrary.

rich545 · October 2004

Right, but I'm sure you'd agree that regardless of perspective you can only fairly compare sales for models that are produced in both 2003 and 2004 (meaning 545 vs. 540, 530 vs. 530 and 525 vs 525).

shipo · October 2004

I've gotta go with Riez on this one. If I recall correctly, the E39 2003 sales figures were rather depressed from the 2002 high water mark for 5-Series sales (on a YTD basis), so I am of the opinion that the E60 is something of a failure. To take this one step further, I cannot recall anytime in automotive history where a new model didn't handily outsell its predecessor, especially after a 7.5 year run.

True the E39 was a spectacular success by any measure, and so maybe it isn't fair to compare its sales history to the new E60. I mean, after all, how many cars that enjoy a 7.5 year production run see their sales peak in the sixth year? Maybe it would be more appropriate to compare the E60 to the sales history of the E34 (1988-1995) 5-Series. By that measure, the E60 will be easily considered a success.

Best Regards,
Shipo

designman · October 2004

I sincerely hope all of you E60 owners get your money's worth out of your cars and have positive problem-free ownership experiences.

That said, I admit to hoping that E60 is not a sales success and I think I speak for others who don't like it. There are plenty of BMW lovers who will never buy it in its current form and the only hope we have for a return to what we perceive as classic BMW values is in poor sales. Spectacular sales guarantees at least six or seven years of E60, so let's face it, this is not what the jilted BMW lover is hoping for.

Fortunate are those who can shrug off the radical changes. Even more fortunate are those who actually like them. But there is a school of thought that believes BMW egregiously tampered with its genes. You won't find these people cheering for sales successes anytime soon.

I have often thought to remain reticent on this matter so as not to offend E60 owners but this would be nothing more than a tacit lie. BMW needs to get messages from the press, focus groups, petitions, letters, forums and the real eye openersales. And although many of us do indeed feel slighted by the design direction, this should not to be taken personally by individual owners. This is strictly between us and BMW.

As always, some of us are more objective than others. However I believe that most of the time those who post statistics usually have an agenda. What's clear is that there is ongoing controversy here so let's not deny it. Both fact and opinion are important. We can all deal with the spin. Need I remind you that we are in the middle of presidential debate?

rich545 · October 2004

I'll take that a step farther and say that I'd be willing to bet that it's probably not very uncommon for a completely redesigned car to have some sales problems initially when it replaces a benchmark. Again though, I don't think you can judge success or failure of a new model on one year (especially when it's more expensive and the economy isn't great). I read an interesting article in the Harvard Business Journal written by Chris Bangle which addresses some of what we're all talking about. I'll tell you, after reading it I have new found respect for him and the direction BMW is choosing to go in. Clearly they felt as a company that though the E39 was still selling well it was only a matter of time before it died on the vine. They felt the E60 represented the future of car styling more than the present. So they were trying to leap ahead rather take small steps forward. The article made one thing very clear though and that is that they are 100% committed to the new designs. It's a good read regardless of how you feel about the E60. Particularly interesting is how Bangle manages the design team (which is still his role).

rich545 · October 2004

I guess what I find odd though is the level of emotion about this. I love cars and I really like the one I have (otherwise I wouldn't bother posting here), but it is afterall just a car. It's not as if we only have one car out there to choose from. If we don't like one, we can choose another. So why get so upset about not liking the new design? I didn't like it at first, but came to, so I bought it. If I didn't like it I'd just decide to buy something else.

shipo · October 2004

Hmmm, that the E39 was aging and needed to be replaced is a given. It is highly unlikely that there will never be a VW Beetle again (referring to its decades old design and the just recent cessation of production).

My personal distaste for the styling of the E60 not withstanding, what I think BMW should have done was to take the basic mechanicals of the E60 and wrapped them in a more evolutionary package. True, many folks like the E60, however, my bet is that many more (especially within BMW's traditional customer base) dislike it enough to shop elsewhere. I know I will.

My 2002 E39 is coming off lease in March of next year, and while I still haven't decided what I'm going to do with it, the one thing I can guarantee I won't do is replace it with an E60. Anyway you look at it, as a two time BMW customer, I should be the easiest type of person to keep in-brand, and for the time being at least, that aint gonna happen. That is a lost sale for BMW. Based upon everything that I have read I am not alone in that regard, and it will be interesting to see what happens with E60 sales going forward. I am guessing that they will struggle to match (much less exceed) the first twelve months, even with the addition of the M5 and the wagon/estate version.

Best Regards,
Shipo

kdshapiro · October 2004

I had three Nissans in a row, should have been a cinch to get me in a fourth Nissan. Didn't happen, certainly was a lost sale for Nissan. People drift in and out for their own reasons.

My next car may not be a BMW, but it will not be Japanese. This has little to do i-drive or the styling or the cockpit or the price. Thinking I want to go American, maybe something with a Hemi.

cdnpinhead · October 2004

Does Daimler-Chrysler have anything American made with a manual transmission?

I owned an Eagle Vision in the late '90's that was pretty good for the first four years and had any number of "issues" the fifth. The biggest had to do with the automatic transmission & convinced me (along with two other Chrysler auto transmission failures in the family the same year) that I'd never own another car with an automatic.

Keep us posted.

pen101 · October 2004

My 2002 E39 lease expires end of this December. I just received the BMW lease end package. It will be sad to see it go. I love the car. It will be the end of an era. The E60 will not be replacing it. Unfortunately BMW lost a continuing customer. Its too bad. A number of factors have played into my decision, including the E60 design, price and competition, plus a change in my personal life (another kid).

manybmws · October 2004

I had a MY99 528iA then a MY03 530iA. Performance and overall dynamics are great. If I bought an E60 it would be a 545i because of the better price/performance of this car/engine. I think the MY06 6-cylinder engine horsepower upgrades should fix this though.

manybmws · October 2004

I think that 2003 sales were above 2002 5-series sales because of the deep incentives offered. So this year is a bit of an aberration. Also, many of the '03 E39 owners (like myself) could have waited for an E60 but chose to go with he E39 for whatever reason - price, styling, etc. This obviously took some BMW owners out of the first E60 year buying loop. If the 6-cylinder upgrades were offered for '05 I am sure we would see an increase in sales. The E60 is a nice car. I have driven both sport and non-sport 545's and they are both very well executed with some nit picks.

div2 · October 2004

I have spoken with more than one individual connected with BMW and they echo your comments regarding sales of the newer cars. BTW, you can read what some of the usual suspects on the ROUNDEL staff think of BMW's new direction in the "Ruminations" column of the latest issue. I could possibly adjust to-or at least learn to tolerate- the styling of the E60, but the combination of the featureless Buick-like dash and the excessive gadgetry completely turns me off. Bring back the driver oriented cockpit design and equip it with electronics that enhance the driving experience rather than detract from it. Or, as Colin Chapman used to say, "Simplify and add lightness!"

kyfdx · October 2004

I don't want to minimize how any of you feel about the E60.. But, the "usual suspects" on the ROUNDEL staff mostly think that BMW hasn't made a decent car since the late, long lamented 2002.

I realize that doesn't mean you have to like the E60, or even buy one.. But, I also don't think it means that BMW is headed down some short path to ruin.. The E60 I drove still feels like a BMW, and tops just about anything else in the category. (That said, I wouldn't buy it either, if I didn't like the way it looked).

regards,
kyfdx

rich545 · October 2004

One other thing to consider here is that though BMW definitely lost some loyalists with it's new designs it definitely gained some buyers that wouldn't have bought the previous designs because they felt they were boring. I've had more than a few people come up to me saying that they felt the old designs were too conservative, but that they were considering buying now because they love the new designs. Obviously, BMW would love to keep the buyers they already have and attract new buyers. That's not so easy to do though.

div2 · October 2004

Well, I'll concede that there are several '02 fans on the ROUNDEL staff, but it certainly isn't reflected in the BMWs they own. Carlson(who LOVES the 645i) owns an E36 M3 and an E30 ix, Calabrese has an M Coupe in addition to two E30 M3s and a Boxer Cup Replika, Farnsworth has an E46, Fischer runs an E36 M3 and a Mini Cooper S, Howard has an E39, as does Rachlin, and yours truly owns an E36 and an E39. Even Siegel has moved up to an E36. I think Chamberlain and Self are the only two staffers who actually own pre-1980 BMWs and I know for a fact that Self wants an E81 BAD.

boomsama · October 2004

Do you guys think that the E60 looks better with or without the M sport kit? And would it be worth it to get the kit for an extra $4000 AUD?

div2 · October 2004

I do think the M Sport kit improves the looks of the car. Worth $4K AUD? That's a decision only you can make. As for me, I'd do it.

kyfdx · October 2004

I've found what I own rarely matches up with what I really like...

But, you know what I mean about the editorial bias, right?

Or maybe I just get that feel from reading the letters to the editor. :-)

regards,
kyfdx

erice · October 2004

I am looking into buying a mid to late 90's 540i. Is there anything in particular I should be looking for?

Are there any probs with particular year models.

What oem/aftermarket equipment is the most desirable?

Should I be worried about buying a BMW with 130k miles already?

What kind of maintenance should I expect to be coming on BMW's of this age and miles? - engine, trans, electronics...etc

Any comments would be greatly app. I enjoy the topics and replies in this forum.

Thanks in advance for any and all help.

cassidym · October 2004

Just picked up my 05 545 with SP and am in the process of ordering a set of 17 inch wheels and snow tires for the winter. Have selected the tires but could use advice on the wheels. Least expensive are ASA JH3s which I'm inclined to order strictly based on price.

But would appreciate advice on this as I've never bought wheels before.

Sorry all, I tried to post this in this Forum yesterday but somehow created a read only message. Hopefully, I have this right now.

Appreciate any advice

boomsama · October 2004

congratulations cass! perhaps you could share your feelings about the car? Thanks.

manybmws · October 2004

cdnpinhead · October 2004

The deafening silence you've endured here speaks volumes.

If you need to ask these questions, you're not worthy. I'll attempt to answer them because I've followed this board for a number of years and tend to wonder myself.

As with Audi, the driving experience is supposed to trump all else. "Never own one without warranty coverage" is the common mantra. "Repairs are breathtakingly expensive" shows up from time to time. Those of us who buy cars and drive them 15 - 25K miles per year and expect them to hold up reasonably well for 150K miles are in the minority. The vast majority lease and could give a rip less if the thing lasts beyond 36K miles.

But then, there's us. We care. I'm fairly confident that BMW's don't self-destruct at 51K miles. However, they seem to require rather expensive maintenance. Whether you perform it or not is your call. There's a big difference between something that's wrong with a car that doesn't allow it to be driven to work & something that's wrong with it that doesn't allow the all-singing-&-dancing gee-gaw to deliver a heated seat (or whatever).

I'm still hoping that the (mechanical) engineers @ BMW have at least moderate control of what's going on. If so, I can buy one of them in the future and ignore the electronic/electrical crap that packs up, while the rest of the vehicle delivers the handling & performance we all enjoy.

Or not. . .

div2 · October 2004

>The deafening silence you've endured here speaks volumes.
If you need to ask these questions, you're not worthy.<

Not true; erice also posted in the "Five Series Problems" topic and has received several helpful responses.

cassidym · October 2004

Oh boomsama, she's a beauty. It's an olivene green six-speed with CWP, SP, Nav, Sat Radio and HUD; and it drives like silk. I picked it up in Munich and was soon flowing through those Bavarian curves, S-bends and autobahns like electricity through a circuit. It is so smooth that, at one point, I wondered to myself if I really had a 545 and not a 530 till I glanced at the speedometer and found I was doing 75 MPH on a Munich city street!

Unfortunately I had to give it back to BMW, well, actually to the shipper and it is now on the high seas due to make landfall in the US sometime next week.

European delivery went off flawlessly and we had a ball in Munich which was packed with good-natured drunks in town for Octoberfest. I recommend getting a new BMW this way to anyone and you do save substatially. Plus Lufthansa gave us a two-for-one deal on the flight over and back.

erice · October 2004

Your comments are duely noted and logged for future reference, pinhead.

thanks

cmr530i · October 2004

I checked my 2003 Consumer Reports magazine in the reliability history section of their auto issue. (My brother took my 2004 issue and hasn't returned it yet!) For the '95 and '97 5 series it lists cooling as a key trouble spot reported by 14.8% of those surveyed with problems occuring in the 12 months from April 1, 2001 through March 31, 2002. Also listed were electrical and power equipment coming in at 9.3% to 14.8% of those reporting. The '98 5 series is listed with power equipment and body hardware issues with 9.3% to 14.8% of those reporting. That said, the '95 and '98 models were given an "average overall reliability" rating. The '97 was not rated (for whatever reason) in this issue. The '99 model was given a "better then average" reliability rating. Hope this helps. It would be better to have the 2004 issue to look at more recent data. Perhaps you can get a copy. Hope this has helped.

div2 · October 2004

The 1997 E39s suffered from the teething problems most new BMW platforms experience(by comparison, the 1992 E36s were a real nightmare). My 528iA has a 5/96 build date and had a few problems(water pump, thermostat, and the emissions air pump) all of which were covered by the BMW CPO warranty. In each case the part that failed was replaced with an improved part and the problem has not recurred. I later replaced the $44 trunk lock actuator myself(an easy 10 minute job) and the replacement functions in a quieter and smoother fashion. Since the CPO warranty expired at around 80K the only non-scheduled repairs have been a P/S hose, the fuel filler door hinge, and the windshield washer motor-less than $140 altogether. At 109K miles the old sled is as tight and rattle free as new, uses no oil, and averages 21 mpg in suburban driving. My point in relating all this is that you shouldn't dismiss a well maintained 1997 E39, since in most every case the first year problems will have been corrected.

cdnpinhead · October 2004

Excellent information.

Thanks.

rnarala12 · October 2004

I own a 1 year old 530i 5spd, with sports, prem pacakges and xenon head lights with 13000 miles. What can I expect to get for this car? Thanks.

kyfdx · October 2004

Post a complete description here: jbollt "Real-World Trade-In Values" Oct 18, 2004 1:42pm

and an expert will answer your question..

My question? Why do you want to sell it?

regards,
kyfdx

Be sure to put in the model year.. you left that out.

cmr530i · October 2004

Your point is well taken. A well maintained vehicle would be a gem to get. It would be vital to obtain the records on the vehicle to insure a good purchase.
In my response to erice, I was trying to offer a place to start looking for data since he had asked for any possible trouble areas on certain model years.

uswaiter · October 2004

What can you tell me about high oil consumption in BMW aluminum block straight-six engines? Have you had any success getting your dealer to do something to reduce consumption?

I've got a 2001 BMW 530i with the aluminum straight six which consumed about 2,500 miles per quart until this spring; when consumption increased to below 980 miles per quart. The dealer finds no leaks and no smoke and has declared the car in BMW specification. I'm uncomfortable that something in the engine has changed to account for the consumption increase, and wonder if expensive off-warranty repairs are down the road. If the oil isn't leaking and isn't burning (smoke), where in the hell is it going?

Thanks in advance for the feedback!

maccar · October 2004

My 2003 530 met a wooden bench on the highway, resulting in a gash is the left front lower bumper and a deep scratch to the driver door and a puncture to the rear door. I have had multiple estimates with all of them suggesting a different approach. One has recommended fixing the doors, one has suggested replacing the rear door with the puncture and fixing the front door and the other says replace both doors. I am apprehensive about replacing the doors for many reasons, but don't want problems in the future related to corrosion from essentially a patch job. Thanks for any input.

BMW 5-Series Sedans

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