Lexus LS 400/LS 430

jeffmust2 · October 2001

Gosh, Neal - sarcastic or not, this idea is bad.

Just spoke to "Simon", the finance manager at Toyota Towne of Simi Valley (CA) at 805/526-7500. As a finance manager, Simon is in charge at this large dealership of selling extended maintenance plans to anyone he can talk into it...For the record, he stated that Toyota dealers do NOT sell extended warranty plans for vehicles that they do not sell from their own new & used lots. Period. And I believe the original question on this board had to do with a potential private LS sale, not a dealer sale.

ToyotaUSA.com only mentions new and used Toyotas as candidates for their Gold and Silver plans, very similar (duh) to the Lexus plans that I mentioned previously.

Speaking of (fool's) gold...if you want to spend your golden retirement years as one poster here does, suing Lexus over a windshield that doesn't defrost quick enough, re-wiring his LS electrical system, complaining that the Nav system isn't perfect (uh, gosh, no one said it was...) and putting an RX300 up on blocks to check the AWD technology versus that of a Jeep, go for it.

Personally, I only have time to play on the web all day.

But it might be clever to call a Toyota dealer and ask if it's their company policy to actually be IN the 3rd-party extended maintenance market before suggesting here that it's readily available and it's a better deal $$$ than going direct to Lexus.

By gosh, sure, that would make sense, to pit two internal divisions of the same corporate giant against each other for the same Lexus maintenance dollars.

Hey, there could very well be a Toyota dealer somewhere that sells an extended plan of some type for cars they themselves have not sold or leased; after all, these are Toyota dealers we're talking about.

But before you bite on one to save a few bucks, I suggest that you check with a local Lexus Service Manager that will have the final say over accepting your vehicle for work paid for by that plan.

And let us know what he/she says.

And to the previous poster, don't you worry about this gentleman being anal retentive - I don't think there's anything retentive about it.

wwest · October 2001

That $2000 Lexus extended warranty on a 98 LS400 was only $1200 across the street at Toyota. As carefully as I could read the fine print I could not find any coverage differences.

Wouldn't you agree that selling extended warranties, Lexus or Toyota, must be a profitable venture, individually, or they wouldn't be doing it?

Their major competition is other third party vendors of extended warranty contracts, even on the internet, mostly at substantially lower cost. Why do you think Toyota wouldn't look the other way in order to take even more money for the same services.

And no, I wouldn't walk in and ANNOUNCE that I bought the car elsewhere, like you did, I would understand that would be the best way to scotch the deal. Everywhere you go where you find PRINTED policies you will often find unspoken workarounds. MONEY talks LOUDLY!

Pitting two corporate divisions against each other for the same maintenance dollars. NOT !!!

Many Lexus and Toyota parts are interchangeable, read some of the posts on this very board, the equivalent Toyota parts are almost always cheaper.

Even right to the top. You don't think the introduction of the highlander took sales away from the RX? You bet it did! But Toyota Motor Company decided that the two offerings gave them overall a bigger piece of the pie.

And by the way, Lexus is a (sub-)division of Toyota, they are NOT parallel entities.

wwest · October 2001

is hard to respond too. you modified your post while I was responding...

The last I knew dealer's service managers were modivated by PROFITS, and any that weren't are out looking for a new job.

If you can find me a Lexus service manager who is unwilling to take the money of ANY third party extended warranty contract provider, including Toyota's, I'll show you a person who will soon likely be out of a job.

Dealer service shops are typically more profitable than vehicle sales, and they don't stay that way very long by being selective about the "color" of someone's money.

parnola · October 2001

Sorry to launch such a debate. You bring up an interesting point about the Toyota Warranty, however. We currently have an '01 RX 300 and an older Camry. I have the RX serviced at Toyota due to the excessive fees Lexus seems to charge. I've had it to Lexus for some minor warranty work and they haven't complained about Toyota servicing it.

lenscap · October 2001

Just thought all you LS 430 owners would be happy to see that your car has led top-tier luxury car sales for the past six months (don't have the numbers before then):

Sep:
LS -- 2062
S-Class -- 1980
7-Series -- 1062
Q45 -- 381

Aug:
LS -- 2743
S-Class -- 2497
7-Series -- 1356
Q45 -- 474

Jul:
LS -- 2260
S-Class -- 1935
7-Series -- 1213
Q45 -- 449

Jun:
LS -- 2724
S-Class -- 1829
7-Series -- 2077
Q45 -- 543

May:
LS -- 2807
S-Class -- 2245
7-Series -- 1494
Q45 -- 686

Apr:
LS -- 2744
S-Class -- 2074
7-Series -- 1528
Q45 -- 565

parnola · October 2001

I can't believe how poorly the Q45 is doing. I firmly believe the LS is a superior vehicle, but the Q has gotten pretty positive reviews. I'm also surprised the S-Class sells as well as it does given the price point.

ljflx · October 2001

It would seem Lexus has easily surpassed its sales goal of 25,000 cars for the model year. I know my dealer was complaining he ran out of cars to sell in September while awaiting the 2002 model. So perhaps September is not as representative as other months - at least for Lexus.

I too am very surprised at the Q's sales performance. It is a hell of a good value given its luxury appointments and powerful engine,and in the end when not fully loaded it sells for about the price of an MB E-320. I've not been in the new model but past models I've ridden in were impressive cars. If I compare it to an MB E-430, which I was not the least bit impressed with when I drove it this past summer, it would seem the Q has so much more to offer. Articles I've read and my own past experience shows this to be a real lux car - so what's wrong? I've noted on the Q board I would not switch to it from an LS430 - the experience is just to good to move away - but if I was up and coming I'd run to it. I guess it's just bad marketing and image.

bitkahuna · October 2001

Nissan / Infiniti have consistently tried to differentiate themselves from bigger brands here usually by performance and sometimes by value, sometimes successfully, and other times not.

The Maxima is a good example. Consistently promoted on its PERFORMANCE, not the fact that it's actually a pretty nice family car. This has worked pretty well for them.

However, they've also been promoting the Q45 on its performance again, saying "it's fast" (said by that annoying British female voiceover, and before I take flames on that, I grew up in England). Yet the numbers don't back that up, and buyers in the 50K+ performance arena are going to be VERY picky AND often image-conscious, and the Q ain't going to cut it. The chance of a BMW 7-series or MB E430 fan buying a Q are almost zero.

Then of course it gets compared to the LS430 and MB S-class whose buyers aren't looking for a 'hot rod' like the Q is promoted as anyway... so they lose there. The other big problem there is the new Q has those boy racer headlights, and has a CHEAP looking front end because they felt with those lights the car didn't need fog lamps to the lower front lip looks like a Hyundai.

The car is quite nice, but the message and positioning are hopelessly confused.

Strangely, they haven't promoted its value, which several here have commented on. Instead of plugging its performance, how about a side by side ad comparing it to an E430, DEFINITELY an Jag S-Type 4.0 (ridiculous price), and perhaps even an LS430 or S430 if the positioning is right.

merc1 · October 2001

My friend sometimes you kill me....If you look at those sales figures you see that every car listed dropped for September. Lexus was no different, so Sept was not only "represenative" for Lexus, but also for any one of the brands listed. I mean do you think Lexus is the only brand that may have had a shortage of cars during the model changeover?

The Q45 has several problems. First, it's an ugly car. Secondly like post # 2012 stated it's being billed as a performance machine, yet for all it's 340hp it isn't any faster than anything else in the class, especially a few cars with LESS hp. Then Infiniti's silly 1990 start-up advertising is still hauting them today, they never became as much of a household name as Lexus has. Combine that and who's thinking about a Q45, not many.

M

ljflx · October 2001

I said perhaps as I certainly wasn't sure. When I brought my car in for service I dropped by to see my sales guy (who is in a different location than service)as he was picking up the tab for my service appointment - unbeknownst to me. So I wanted to thank him. I innocently asked him how well sales were going given the terrorist incident. He simply said he was out of LS430's while awaiting the 2002. He was complaining a lot in 2001 also because of the long wait for the LS430. Since this was around September 20 it was pretty early in the month yet. It was then that he told me how high the demand was for the ES300. If you want to read anything more into it than that so be it.

As for model year changes it was only the Lexus that changed in September. If I remember correctly MB changed in early August,the Q has been out for a while and you know full well about the 7. So yes it was only Lexus that would have been affected anyway. Audi's A-8 wasn't even noted and it barely registers anyway.

ljflx · October 2001

I don't want to get back into the whole terrorist discussion but General Mcaffrey's e-mail as detailed in a story on CNN.com certainly makes you realize the power of America's military might. An offensive powerhouse story vs. all the tv talk about how the Afghans defeated the Russians (with our weapons everyone forgets to mention - they have no such supplier now) and how the mountainous terrain is so hard to negotiate. The NY times also ran a story today that indicated the Taliban's power is fading fast.

wwest · October 2001

I feel I must applaud the current administration for being will to wait things out and let things develop worldwide.

Good JOB!

We may just win this "war" by simply rattling sabers and supplying food to the Afghanistanians.

flint350 · October 2001

Oh, please. Give me a break.

wwest · October 2001

Flint350

Are you saying what our President has done over the past weeks isn't working or isn't likely to work?

merc1 · October 2001

Well that's only partially correct. Mercedes' model changeover actually happend during Aug and Sept. only completing during the last week of Sept for their cars. However still everyone's sales were down due to model changeover and the Sept 11 events.

M

flint350 · October 2001

No, of course I'm not saying that and you know it. It is your interpretation of our President's policy as mere "saber rattling" and "feed the Afghani's" that is flawed and you know that as well. The "saber" is being unsheathed for use in the very near future and you know that too. To suggest that we can be successful against terrorists with saber rattling and food programs and not follow through as we have announced we will do is either terribly naive, given the recent news, or your LS windows have fogged up again and you need to get that a/c working. But this has been off-topic again and we both know that too.

pat · October 2001

I wish I didn't have to say this, I really do, but could we please just stick to the cars here?

Everyone here knows that this not a political board in any way, and these kinds of conversations just don't belong here. Obviously the events of September 11 demanded that the "rules" be relaxed for a bit, but - at least for now - we need to try to keep to the Town Hall's mission.

Please? I would really appreciate it.

Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board

fxashun · October 2001

And I love those Lexuses too.(Notice me staying on topic.)

pat · October 2001

fxashun · October 2001

And the new LS430 looks great with the chrome wheels. But I love my 94 Anniv Edition.

lenscap · October 2001

Did anybody see that Lexus swept the J.D. Power APEAL awards that were released last Monday?

LS 430 -- #1 most appealing premium luxury car
GS 300/430 -- #1 most appealing mid-luxury car
ES 300 -- #1 most appealing entry luxury car (IS 300 was #2)

The APEAL study measures what excites and delights new vehicle owners with their vehicle's features and designs. The study includes over 110 attributes consumers like and dislike in the following eight categories:

1. Exterior styling
2. Engine and transmission
3. Comfort and convenience
4. Ride, handling and braking
5. Seats
6. Heating, ventilation and cooling
7. Cockpit and instrument panel
8. Sound system

bluebeast · October 2001

Can you post the link to the J.D. Powers APEAL study?

lenscap · October 2001

My computer is not letting me post the links, saying they're too long (which they're not).

So, follow this way:

1. Go to http://www.jdpower.com

2. Click on "automotive"

3. On the left side, click on "I'm looking for news"

4. Under "Study/Report" (first heading), click on "Customer Satisfaction & Product Quality"

5. Click on the 2nd study -- 2001 APEAL

There are three links, one each for the press release, winners and summary.

balderdash · October 2001

Much as I fancy myself an iconoclast, I don't like the idea of being the "only" one driving a certain make of car. I wouldn't buy a Q45 for that reason, mostly. I'd feel like I was out on a limb that might break off at any time and leave me without any support. Nissan is not about to go under, but I'm not sure that can be said about the Infinity division. I realize my feelings in this matter are largely irrational, but I think a lot of people feel as I do. In a Q45 I think one feels "left out." A sort of wierdo. It's like driving a Yugo, or a Daewoo, or one of those new hybird cars, or like buying one of the last Oldsmobiles, or like buying a six-series Bimmer just before they were discontinued, as a friend of mine did. There's something to be said for a long-standing record and reputation, almost like being part of a tradition (excuse me while I wipe away a tear). They make only a few thousand (or maybe only a few hundred) Ferraris every year. They are rarer than hens' you-know-whats, but that wouldn't be a factor at all in deciding whether or not to buy one, were a person so inclined. So I don't know why I feel the way I do about Qs. But I think all those people who didn't buy one feel the same. It's not a bad looking car, despite what merc1 thinks, and I believe it won the latest "comparo" between it and the LS 430 in Car and Driver (or was it Road and Track?) So there is no rational reason for not buying a Q45.

lateralg · October 2001

Evaluate the air conditioning on a hot day.

lenscap · October 2001

I agree with you on the Q45 100%.

Another item that would prevent me from buying any Infiniti is their willingness to discontinue models with no replacement on such a frequent basis. In only 11 years they have dropped the M30, the J30 and the G20 (although this was brought back after a few years).

This practice alone would scare me from buying any Infiniti.

Lexus has never dropped a single model from its entire lineup.

flint350 · October 2001

I haven't heard anything yet about the new DVD update disk, but I saw on one of the Benz sites that they are getting $300 for the CD set (9 disks for US and 2 for Canada). It's my understanding that the 1st updates are free for the LS430, but I wonder what they'll cost eventually. Can't imagine 1 disk would cost as much as the Benz set. Of course, I can't imagine Benz charging $300 either, nor can I imagine them still using CD's since it takes 11! Imagine the fun of being on a long trip and having to stop and dig out the trunk so you can change CD's. (I think I heard their CD changer is in the trunk).

I just returned from a long trip across "regions" and the DVD system worked flawlessly. IT was even useful in some small towns where "turn by turn" guidance (remember those "gold" roads?) was not available. Less useful, sure, but useful still.

sfmartin · October 2001

On the Mercedes, the CD changer is in the trunk, but the COMAND system has a single-slot player in the dash, which can accept either a navigation or regular CD. If ordered at time of purchase, the 11 disk set is "only" $140. I think the first 2 updates are free on the LS430.

ljflx · October 2001

Do you know how to get the update? I'm still groan free - how about you.

pcbrs · October 2001

I guess you're not including the ES250, which came out with the ES300. But then again, the ES lines are still available, so I can see where you are coming from.

nealm1 · October 2001

The groan is a thing of the past. Lexus has found an effective fix. If anyone is still having this problem, take it in and tell the dealer to get the TSB.

Has anyone spent any quality time in an SC430? I have read reviews that suggest that it squeaks and rattles in unchatacteristic ways for a Lexus. Any experiences?

lenscap · October 2001

The ES 250 and ES 300 did not come out at the same time, and were never sold together.

The ES 250 came out in September 1989 and was sold through September 1991. At that point, the ES 300 was introduced.

Even though the engine was enlarged from 2.5 to 3.0, the car was still the ES. Just like when the LS 400 became the LS 430 with its redesign. It's still the same car.

flint350 · October 2001

No groan and just passed 9200 miles. As for the nav update, I believe the dealer is supposed to notify us when they become available - I heard that's supposed to be in November.

sfmartin, thanks for the clarification. It's been over a year since I looked at the S Class when preparing to buy. I remember that setup now that you've reminded me.

ljflx · October 2001

I took the SC430 out for about a 20 minute spin a while back. It was a wonderful car and I came away with the feeling that I have to get me one of these. I thought that it had a custom feel to it and maybe an even better body build than the LS430. It was also incredibly quiet inside and the ML radio in such small confines is even more awesome than in the LS430. The interior wood is impeccable and somehow seems even more stunning than on the LS.

Did you ever buy that telescope? If you're still in the market I'll give you a couple of websites that discount a bit (rare in scope shopping) and offer free shipping.

Flint350 - I would kill to get the nav system on my midnight pine car. My only mistake. I'm pushing 14.5k miles on the pine and it is flawless and spectacular. I've gotten used to the Pioneer radio and its damm good until you hear the ML. I've got the nav on the silver (8k miles and also flawless) But I can't get my wife to switch cars with me and worse yet she rarely uses it. The problem is she won't be without the ML. I drive the silver on weekends and have the nav programmed to the hilt. I think if I was buying today I'd definitely go with the custom lux and quite possibly the ultra lux. Is the air suspension what it is hyped to be?

wwest · October 2001

Yes, and more.

les8034 · October 2001

I have a 430 with sport suspension and 17" wheels. I live in New England. I think I need snows for the winter. What have folks done: bought 17" snows, bought 17" snows AND rims to protect the factory originals or changed to a 16" wheel/snow package for a cheaper price, etc. Has anyone had experience with all-season tires on the LS last winter??

wwest · October 2001

Here in this area we very rarely have true wintertime conditions. Bad snow storm in Dec. 90 and another in Dec 95. So I stick with my nice quiet Turanzas and put a set of good light duty chains in the trunk for those few occassions when they are needed.

Trying to remember my years at Pease AFB but don't remember it being much worse than Seattle.

pcbrs · October 2001

Point well made.

I seem to have blended the two models together. I stand corrected.

nealm1 · October 2001

We still have not purchased a telescope; my wife ungraciously pointed out that what my son really wanted was a remote-controlled plane, and that the telescope smelled more like a present for dad. True, but ungracious nonetheless. I would be interested in any recommended sites. (Sorry for the brief detour, Pat)

Did you folks read the yellowbrix piece on the new 7 linked to Edmunds' front page? Comes in for some fairly harsh criticism. I hope it is undeserved -- always rooting for anyone advancing the state of the art -- but as i have said before, I have my doubts about i-drive

nealm1 · October 2001

you can find the 7 piece linked on the "news" section of Edmunds

js95 · October 2001

I am a very happy owner of a black LS430 and was wondering what other LS430 owners have done to change various default behaviors of their cars.

From reading the manual and this board, there appear to be lots of features of the car that can be changed from default settings, either directly by the user or with some programming by the dealer.

I for instance changed the behavior of the unlock on the remote to unlock all 4 doors at the first click instead of requiring 2 clicks. I also followed the tip on the steering wheel groan fix (#1601, remains to be seen if the fix is permanent)

What kinds of such things have you done/had done? For what purpose?

carnaught · October 2001

Does anyone have the problem with the inside (and key fob) release of the trunk requiring multiple attempts? Upon the first click(s) to release, the lid is "caught" by the auto closer and doesn't open. The dealer said this is a widespread problem with no service bulletin remedy thus far.

Thanks.

greasykid1 · October 2001

Had this problem shortly after delivery in March. About 2 months ago my dealer called that there was a fix. Brought my car in and have had no further problems. THERE IS A FIX.

nealm1 · October 2001

Edmunds has just posted its First Look at the new 7. While they gush about its handling etc (anyone surprised?), even their devotion to BMW can't force them to accept the i-Drive system. They say that it takes the incomprehensible-telematics title from the S, that it is distracting and (subtext) dangerous. They say, and I agree wholeheartedly, that car manufacturers must focus on ergomonics and usability and not simply adopt the most advanced technology available just because it is available. Especially given the demographics for cars in this price range, I think this thing will prove to be a big mistake. And that is a shame, because otherwise, the car sounds awesome.

rennybosch · October 2001

I just got back to Southern California from a trip to Seattle, and was surprised to find that in the northwest the nav system has many more glitches than in the southwest.

For instance, I would follow the guidance to a certain street, make a right turn as instructed, and then notice that the Me-icon had jumped to show me on a street 2 blocks away. After a bit more driving, it jumped back to where I really was.

Could it be that the GPS satellites are not always visible in the northwest?

I also noticed that the Me-icon sometimes pointed in the wrong direction, like when the car was pointing North the icon pointed East. Again, it cured itself after a short while.

Another anomaly, though not necessarily a glitch, is that it selected different routes from the same location to the same destination at different times. Does it know traffic patterns as a function of time-of-day? I wouldn't think so.

wwest, I kept thinking of your posts. I sympathize. I recommend you move to Southern California.

wwest · October 2001

is in Southern California. We wouldn't want them to get lost using their own Nav system, now, would we?

elgriton · October 2001

says LS 430 is the closest to anything that resembles perfection in a passenger vehicle.

mike3939 · October 2001

Have an opportunity for what I think is great deal on certified '98 LS400. I would welcome any comments regarding a Yay or Nay on this car. Also, I live in Chicago and obviously face some winter issues; is the traction control with this car good in lite/medium snow? Obviously, I know it's not an SUV, but I don't want to get stuck every time it snows 3 inches either! Thanks, everyone.

sfmartin · October 2001

We traded a '98 for an '01 LS430. The only problem we had in 3 1/2 years - 48k miles was a defective battery early in the game. San Antonio, so no experience with snow. :<}

jeffmust2 · October 2001

Sold my '95 LS400 about 3 months ago for a private party '98 LS400 with 23k miles.

Other than some problems I inherited, typical in a used vehicle, that the dealer fixed under the original 4-yr, 50k mile warranty, no unusual problems.

The '98 was the first year with the higher-output 4.0L V-8 and this box really moves for a big sedan.

One generic problem I can report, as others have done in this forum and also on www.clublexus.com (check it out - great info & very little interference by PC hosts), is that the "tip-in", or initial throttle response when starting up from a dead stop, is a bit hard to modulate cleanly. In other words, the response isn't very forgiving in trying to make smooth starts.

But it's a great vehicle with much better handling (for a LS) than previous generations.

Just don't compare it to an LS430!

Lexus LS 400/LS 430

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