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Lexus LS 400/LS 430

16768707273165

Comments

  • feverhartfeverhart Member Posts: 144
    Addendum: For even better snow traction consider the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S (WR 400 AA A). Bridgestone LS is not available for the 17" inch wheels so I went to this Michelin tire
    ( which is also available for the 16" wheels). My OE Bridgestones on the LS430 would float on rain flooded highways. Not so with these tires; they stick like glue. Forget cheap tires on the Lexus. The tires are an important part of its performance capablilty and road safety.
  • et610et610 Member Posts: 40
    Check it out on "Home" page

    Most wanted sedan over $45,000 MBz E-SERIES
    Horrible mention Lexus LS 430

    Most wanted Sedan under $45,000 BMW 5-series
    Honorable Mention Infinity

    Just thought I would mention this tidbit.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Thanks.

    Et610 - Lexus does lose one now and then. Having driven the E many times I wouldn't even think of it in this company. I guess it also means the E is more desirable (better?? - no way!) than the S which would then mean something is wrong in the Benz hierarchy of life.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Might just mean something you can't afford or wouldn't actually buy if you could.

    The most desireable business jet??!!
  • brtmdbrtmd Member Posts: 54
    Having just recently gone through the shopping and testing for a new vehicle, I definitely found the new E more "desireable" than the S (and I do not mean as a result of the price differential). However, the LS won my dollars as my priorities dicatated the larger size/space. I think it is pretty amazing that it took a newly designed and heavily advertised mid size Mercedes to supplant the three year old LS at the top of the "Wanted" list.
  • hage45hage45 Member Posts: 13
    Feverhart-is there any downside to the Pilot Sport A/S, I just ordered four for my 01 LS430. I know they have a firm sidewall,did you notice a decrease in ride quality? Thanks in advance for your reply.
  • mikemc1mikemc1 Member Posts: 10
    I am looking to lease a new 2003 LS430 with the ultra luxury package.
    I have never owned a Lexus and would like to hear from current owners mainly LS430
    owners. What kinda lease should I look for? I currently have a brand new 2002 Nissan Maxima
    GLE and decided I want to upgrade. Please email with your thoughts/advise.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    The only thing the UL version has, over the less expensive versions that benefits the driver directly is air suspension.
  • rennyboschrennybosch Member Posts: 329
    wwest, the UL also has the little refrigerated compartment in the middle of the back seat -- not by itself worth the premium over the Custom Lux but nice nevertheless.
  • chuck107chuck107 Member Posts: 20
    Took delivery of my 2003 Ultra Lux last month. Now have close to 3000 miles. Perfection all the way. Nice touches the Ultra has over other LS's is the suede head liner and use of leather on the glove boxes and other places. The optional Analine leather is the best I have ever seen in any automobile.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Is useless to the driver as is the vibrating bed, oops, I meant to say seat.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    " I think it is pretty amazing that it took a newly designed and heavily advertised mid size Mercedes to supplant the three year old LS at the top of the "Wanted" list. "

    Isn't that the way it goes, the newest car beats the older car? Next year I'm sure it will be the new 5-Series or GS.

    M
  • nealm1nealm1 Member Posts: 154
    Last year, when Lexus was 1st in Edmunds' most wanted list, I seem to recall our MB friends dismissing the utility of such lists. Now, of course, they are the reference standard. Hmmmmmm.

    BTW, I think the new E's exterior is just gorgeous. The interior is not, and its too cramped for my tastes, but the exterior is just beautiful.
  • brtmdbrtmd Member Posts: 54
    Re: #3465
    Absolutely;for many (myself included), "new" often equates with "best" and "desireability". I still find it pretty amazing, that the three year old LS sits second on the list as opposed to other newer designs (the 7 series for example, which I find desireable in many ways). I also agree with you that the E will likely be displaced quickly; probably the 5 series if BMW doesn't screw it up too badly.

    nealm1: Couldn't agree with you more, on both counts. It is very easy to dismiss another's subjective opinion when it does not fit with your own. The "High End Luxury Marques" board is littered with incredible attempts to "prove" one person's subjective opinion is objective fact.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Wasn't me, I've never said anything either way about Edmunds' list. I made no such reference.

    brtmd,

    Well Edmunds isn't going to put a car of S-Class or 7-Series price on that list for the over 55K category, thats too much over 55K for their tastes. Value is the reason for the LS430's continued spot on their list.

    M
  • brtmdbrtmd Member Posts: 54
    merc1:
    No question, the LS is an incredible value. When you offer what the competitor has for less money, that is value; this is clearly pointed out in the summary of the LS from the "2003 Best" list. With regard to the Edmunds editors "tastes" (and I will not claim to be clairvoyant and profess to know what their tastes are), it sounds to me that when all else is equal, a good value makes it better than the competition.

    BTW, the category for 2003 is "best sedan over $45,000" with no upper limit for price. This is quite evident in the category "best convertible over $45,000" where the $90,000+ SL won top honors. The criteria for the list are written at the end of the piece.
  • carfan4surecarfan4sure Member Posts: 49
    Some time ago I posted a question about the desireability of certain options on an LS, and I wanted to share my experience with them now that I own an LS. A number of you gave me your impressions of these options and I appreciated that.
    Navigation: Effective tool that has kept me on track, especially when I was pressed for time. Sometimes the DVD doesn't have the street number I have, and I did ignore its plea to make a U-turn on a post DVD completed turnpike! What I really appreciate is the ability to save locations and retrieve them when needed. Many times I have thought I could remember getting somewhere I got to months ago, but when I get out on the road and nearby, I'd forget. The save feature is most helpful; I wish I could syncronize my palm pilot with it for addresses/phone numbers/appt. reminders. Anybody with Lexus reading this?
    Park assist: Very effective tool. Wish I had this on our LX470 that has even more blind spots at bumper level. Better yet, a video camera on the back of it like the Q45, so I could hook up the boat trailer alone. I'm digressing. This is the one of the most practical gizmos on a car in a long time, especially for a new car owner who is anal about not making the first scratch on the car.
    Mark Levinson: Discernable to me only with a CD, but it has remarkably good sound.
    Lexus Link: Overpriced and annoying voice introduction. Can one turn that voice off? My kingdom for someone that can turn that announcement off!
  • rennyboschrennybosch Member Posts: 329
    carfan4sure, you haven't mentioned the laser radar cruise control. Did you not get that? Or do you not find it useful? To me it is one of the most useful things on the LS430 (except in heavy traffic).
  • whybuy1whybuy1 Member Posts: 43
    After a year owning an UL,
    * I use the NAV system and laser cruise control all the time. The laser cruise control enhances safety by maintaining a safe distance. I tested the Brake Assist when I was not using the laser cruise control.
    * I use the Park Assist to pull into my garage just far enough to close the garage door behind the car.
    * My daughter uses the rear seat radio controls.
    * Nobody uses the rear seat vibrators more than 5 seconds.
    * I use the rear and side window screens most of the year here in California.
    * Passengers seem to like the auto door closers because the doors close quietly, no slamming necessary.
    * I store drinking water in my rear refrigerator, but I don't and can't depend on the water being cool.
    * I guess the air suspension is working. The car does not lean in curves or when braking.
  • carfan4surecarfan4sure Member Posts: 49
    rennybosch: The '03 model I bought did not have laser cruise control, just parking assist. New breakdown of options this year.

    I did figure out why my link announcement is so loud. My eight year old turned the volume up, so she could hear recordings of herself from the back seat.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Well as you see, "value" won't always place you in the #1 spot. Those other nuances will go to the Euro cars each and every time as will the enthusiast. You don't need to be "clairvoyant" to see that.

    In the case of the SL there is nothing else even close, hence they picking it for that category, though their categories could be a little more seperated.

    M
  • rennyboschrennybosch Member Posts: 329
    To make the rear refrigerator work, you must have the rear air conditioner on. Press the Climate button, and then touch Manual for the rear seat until it goes to A/C and Low. I find it keeps my Frappucino quite cold.
  • anthonycecilanthonycecil Member Posts: 68
    After a year I find the air suspension not worth while. I also doubt I will do anything more than basic service for Link. Tony
  • zadatedzadated Member Posts: 2
    I am picking up an LS430 this week. The dealer said that he would change the tires from 17" rims to 16" rims. Is it worth my doing this? What are the compromises? Why would a manufacterer switch to a new size tires if it degrades performance? I am not an agressive driver and appreciate the ride and low noise levels of the LS430. Thanks for any help on this.
  • et610et610 Member Posts: 40
    The 16' tires generally are quieter than the 17". Of course this all depends on the actual tire itself. Ride can be greatly affected by the sidewall of tires.
    Someone else can probably give you a more consise answer with brand names of tires.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Performance is, yet again, a subjective term.

    For me, when discussing an LS430, performance would mean quiet, smooth, comfortable, etc, etc.

    For a want-to-be "boy racer", performance might mean fast corning with no lean.

    I guess enough LS430 purchasers fall into the latter category that Lexus is will to accomodate them with siffer riding 17" wheels and Euro-tuned suspensions.
  • rennyboschrennybosch Member Posts: 329
    Your "performance" points are excellent and well stated. And thanks for the spelling test. I found 5 errors. Is that the correct total?
  • whybuy1whybuy1 Member Posts: 43
    I stand by my story. The rear fridge only works effectively on long trips. It doesn't cool when the engine is off.
  • brtmdbrtmd Member Posts: 54
    merc1: I agree with you completely, that "value won't always place you in the #1 spot." But it appears to me the Edmunds editors have used it (once again) to place the LS ahead of it's direct competetion, the S-class and 7-series (which was my only point).

    With regard to "nuances" and "enthusiasts", I once again disagree with attempts to make subjective blanket statements about what others discern or desire. When such statements are completely at odds with this enthusiast's personal experience, I take note. Like wwest above, when I am purchasing a full size luxury sedan, I am an enthusiast of quietness, smoothness, comfort, space, quality, reliability, capable handling (my choice of the sport suspension)--for me, the LS has these nuances in spades. I do give the European competition the nod in many areas, such as styling & "snob appeal" (forgive me for lack of a better term). However, my list of priorities for a vehicle in this category led me to the LS this time around.

    Lastly, I agree with you and Edmunds on the SL; but my point was with regard to price in refuting a clairvoyant statement, "that's too much over 55k for their tastes."

    Degrading performance: I am afraid the Eurotuned suspension and W rated 17 inch tires will do little to satisy the "boy-racer." Despite the handling enhancements, the LS is still amazingly serene--but there are subtle yet noticeable prices to be paid and this option is, obviously, not for everyone.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    "I am an enthusiast of quietness, smoothness, comfort, space, quality, reliability, capable handling (my choice of the sport suspension)--for me, the LS has these nuances in spades."

    Ok I guess I can possibly see that for a LS430. The only thing I really see on your list that the LS does better than it's competition is reliability, thats not enough for me personally to put up with the LS430's other issues, but to each his own.

    The S-Class and 7-Series or A8 or Jaguar XJ for that matter aren't EVER going to provide a better "value" per most Lexus' fans definition of the word. I can't help but think "value" will always mean the less-expensive car. The word is so overrated in my opinion.

    It's a pretty safe bet that no matter how good a S-Class, 7-Series or A8 is it will never wind up on Edmunds list due to price. Especially if the threshold is 55K.

    M
  • nealm1nealm1 Member Posts: 154
    "I can't help but think "value" will always mean the less-expensive car."

    LS430 v. E class. The latter is cheaper (although not by much); the former is, IMHO and by a wide margin, the better value.
  • brtmdbrtmd Member Posts: 54
    "To each his own"--agreed (in fact, I believe there are several things we agree on, but are approaching from a different perspective). When I buy any product, I have a list of priorities to meet. When I decided to purchase a full size luxury sedan, I determined my priorities and evaluated the competition (for me, the LS, S, and 7). Many, if not most, of my priorities (which I have already listed) for such a vehicle were met by all three to a satisfactory degree; once price was considered, it was over. Hence, value will only be objective to the individual and subjective between those with differing priorities. Choosing to disregard or dismiss value ("overrated") in your own purchase decision is always an option; I often have and would not condemn anyone for doing so. By the same token, to dismiss another's concept of value is pointless.

    "It's a pretty safe bet that no matter how good a S-Class, 7-Series or A8 is it will never wind up on Edmunds list due to price."--Again, on this I disagree as evident with the SL example. When a product is felt to be clearly superior, value is either redefined or disregarded.
  • botuerkbotuerk Member Posts: 3
    I have an ls 430 .Ultra with Ecru. As some have suggested (bcleep in particular), I want to use charcoal floor mats in the winter and Ecru in the summer. When I went to order them, the part number for Ultra mats is different than the part number for regular LS 430 mats. For the life of me, I don't see why any LS 430 mat won't fit in an ls 430 ultra and visa versa. Can anyone help with this? Thanks
  • brtmdbrtmd Member Posts: 54
    I would be very surprised if the mats were actually a different shape and not interchangeable. Maybe they use a different grade of carpeting for the ultra version?
  • bcleepebcleepe Member Posts: 53
    When I ordered the mats on the phone, all I mentioned was LS430. The dealer didn't ask whether it is a UL or Cus Lux. They should fit all LS430.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I was really speaking in relation to the S-Class vs the LS430. Naturally I don't think the LS430 is better than say the E500.

    brtmd,

    Oh I'm not condemning anyone, I agree that everyone has their priorities when buying a car, I guess overall what I'm saying is that people have different priorities and they should be met when spending this much on a car.

    The SL winning its class is somewhat different. I still say as long as the LS430 is priced at 55K to start and the S, 7 and A8 aren't anywhere near that then the LS430 will get the nod because yes (gulp!) it does provide a *similar* experience for much less. With the SL its not even a contest with any cheaper car. And value isn't readily applied to cars with 2-seats anyway, it's a more of an emotional purchase.

    M
  • brtmdbrtmd Member Posts: 54
    merc1
    I agree; they are similar enough that price becomes a distinguishing factor that can either be considered or disregarded. Also agree that buying a 2-seat convertible is probably based much more on desire than meeting a list of priorities. It is a highly impractical choice for many people, including my family; yet, my wife wants to drive nothing else. When it comes time for her to buy, she doesn't even want to look at anything other than a Miata.
  • helmarhelmar Member Posts: 15
    I have a '99 LS400, with an '03 LS430 on order.

    I've wondered why the cruise control isn't smart enough to downshift (to help slow down) if the car starts accelerating past the set speed when going downhill.

    Is this addressed at all in the '03 with the Laser cruise control?
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    They can never do that on FWD cars out of fear that some idiot will be using the cruise control on a slippery downhill surface and....

    FWD, and AWD with FWD bias, are the dominant vehicular configuration on the road today.

    Regretably that dominance means you get to play second fiddle.
  • oac3oac3 Member Posts: 373
    I have read on this forum where it was suggested that you do NOT own a Mercedes yet. You have not denied it either. But, I am curious why you go on and on about the virtues of a car you don't even own, at the expense of LS owners on this forum ? Credibility, in y books, start with ownership. If you love Mercedes that much, why don't you do the 'smart' thing - buy one and get it done with. Seems a simple thing to me.

    But then, for your 'tastes' and 'priorities' in a luxury car, you'd have to pony up $80K+ for your dream car. If you have that kind of $$ more power to you. I don't hence my 'value' purchase of an LS.

    For the umpteenth time: To every one their choice !
  • flint350flint350 Member Posts: 250
    I'm not sure I understand wwest's response since I know that he knows the LS series are not FWD, but RWD. Also, the laser cruise does, indeed, downshift to adjust its speed when overtaking a vehicle ahead. First, it reduces throttle, then it downshifts, then, if necessary, it applies up to 20% braking. But maybe I just misunderstood, as I am given to do on occasion :)
  • agent0986agent0986 Member Posts: 64
    is it just me, or the new S class minor shape modification looks kinda lexus like? esp those front headlamps? it looks more LS430ish
    go check out at www.mbusa.com
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    I noticed that also. Plus if you look at the car's side from the front looking toward the back-end it also has that Lexus look. I do think MB did a wise thing making the grill bigger. The car now has a more prestigious look in my opinion. I found the old grill rather mousy looking for an S-class.

    I think MB may be getting a bit worried that the edgier styling of 2000 played to the younger generation bull market crowd and that crowd is quickly dwindling. They may go back to a more classical style for the S.

    Flint350 - did you see my post re the NY Times stories last week?
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Relative's cars are the reason why. Oh and thanks for the advice.

    ljflx,

    I gotta tell you that is totally ridiculous...the S-Class now looks like a Lexus. Right. Wanna bet the next LS is a yet another copy of a Mercedes, that being the current S-Class? You all are funny. You all seem to have so much insight into what Mercedes is worried about.

    M
  • helmarhelmar Member Posts: 15
    Actually, my earlier question wasn't specifically about the laser cruise control, but about cruise control in general.

    If you start going uphill, the car accelerates to maintain the selected speed, upshifting if necessary.

    If you start going downhill, the car makes no attempt to maintain the selected speed, but simple speeds up as gravity dictates.

    It would seem to me that the car COULD downshift in an attempt to maintain the selected speed, but doesn't.

    Am I just off base on this?
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    No.

    First, the laser cruise control is unique to the LS430.

    "Regular" cruise control "firmware", and base design, is shared across many product lines, FWD. RWD, and AWD.

    Actually as I understand the T/L cruise system it will retard the timing to keep the downhill speed down, but that's about it.
  • flint350flint350 Member Posts: 250
    Yes I saw the post, but haven't seen the articles yet. But since you've again been characterized as "ridiculous" and "funny" (not in a fun way, I gather), I wonder if I should take the time to read them. :)
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Yeah - I forgot - I (we actually) can't say anything about MB. Even business speculation that has nothing to do with the car itself is off limits in merc1's MB world. Plus saying something like it has a bit more of a Lexus looks is translated as its a carbon copy. I guess I will go completely silent on MB from here on in.

    By the way I know of several businesses that were targeting young people made rich by the bull market. They are rapidly changing their plans because the customer base they were targeting has pretty much evaporated. It's rather normal in business to do these kind of things.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    My friend you're not ridiculous by any means, you're suggestion that the S-Class looks like an LS430 is. Thats like saying the Audi TT looks like the Nissan 350Z. Lexus has no "look" for anyone to "look" like, Lexus' "look" is copied from everyone else in the first place.

    M
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